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Discussion of GAZ-MM 72-K and Sd.Kfz. 10/5 Flak 38 Vehicle Mounted AAA Pre-Orders

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23 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:


How would having a truck next to you with unlimited ammo give a AA vehicle unlimited ammo?  Or are you giving the AA gun unlimited ammo if there is a specific truck nearby?

 

Yeah - just a cheat/justification for the unlimited ammo.

 

 

Quote


Can you also get the “ammo truck” to follow the AA vehicle around?  In both SP and MP?

 

I haven’t tested to see if ‘simple’ vehicles obey the player/formation logic. They should at least follow you in trail and  if so, yes.

Jaeger will know for sure.

Edited by Gambit21

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14 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yeah - just a cheat/justification for the unlimited ammo.

 

 

 

I haven’t tested to see if ‘simple’ vehicles obey the formation logic. If so, yes.

Jaeger will know.


Are you actually able to turn that “cheat” off when the “ammo truck” is destroyed or out of range?  And then the ammo supply goes back to whatever the default is?  Then let’s assume that the AA truck goes back into range of the ammo truck, does the ammo supply go back to infinite?  If that is actually possible, this mission editor  is even more flexible than I thought possible.


How about this, when I spawn into an MP mission, can you get an ammo truck to spawn in next to me?

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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I wonder how the AA trucks will go on an expert server where all the icons and help features are normally switched off.  Will they need to use dead reckoning to lead a target up to 1500m away or would some aim assists be hard coded to function for them no matter what the server settings are?

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19 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:


Are you actually able to turn that “cheat” off when the “ammo truck” is destroyed or out of range?  And then the ammo supply goes back to whatever the default is?  Then let’s assume that the AA truck goes back into range of the ammo truck, does the ammo supply go back to infinite?  If that is actually possible, this mission editor  is even more flexible than I thought possible.

 

I can’t change any vehicle properties with editor logic other than coalition. So once the player vehicle is set for unlimited ammo - that’s it.

 

19 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:


How about this, when I spawn into an MP mission, can you get an ammo truck to spawn in next to me?

 

Yep

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19 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I can’t change any vehicle properties with editor logic other than coalition. So once the player vehicle is set for unlimited ammo - that’s it.

 


ok, so that’s a little less useful.  I’d like the ammo quantity to depend on whether you are close to the resupply truck, and it sounds like that is not possible.  But you could set ammo as unlimited if someone spawns next to an ammo truck, and limited if there is no ammo truck at the spawn point?

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10 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

ok, so that’s a little less useful.  I’d like the ammo quantity to depend on whether you are close to the resupply truck, and it sounds like that is not possible.

 

It is possible.

 

In the editor, you can assign a rearm speed and radius to a truck (there are also settings for repairing, healing, and refueling). When a player tank stops within this radius, ammunition can be replenished.

 

The truck can be destroyed, removing its special abilities. It can move like any other AI ground vehicle.

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20 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:


ok, so that’s a little less useful.  I’d like the ammo quantity to depend on whether you are close to the resupply truck, and it sounds like that is not possible.  But you could set ammo as unlimited if someone spawns next to an ammo truck, and limited if there is no ammo truck at the spawn point?

 

Affirmative

 

1 minute ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

It is possible.

 

In the editor, you can assign a rearm speed and radius to a truck (there are also settings for repairing, healing, and refueling). When a player tank stops within this radius, ammunition can be replenished.

 

The truck can be destroyed, removing its special abilities. It can move like any other AI ground vehicle.

 

Yep - thank you for confirming tank/vehicle refuel.

 

So this makes it simple and more useful for BSR’s needs.

 

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8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

So this makes it simple and more useful for BSR’s needs.

 


It’s not really for my needs, I’m just curious what can be done for future possibilities.  Thanks for your help.

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I do have a question : will these new vehicles be better modeled than the AI versions  currently in game?🧐

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5 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I do have a question : will these new vehicles be better modeled than the AI versions  currently in game?

 

I'd expect the overall quality to be on par with the Tank Crew vehicles as they are made by the same contractor.

 

No doubt the 3D models and textures will be better than the very simple AI models. The damage modelling and equipment behaviour should also be much more detailed.

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4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I wonder how the AA trucks will go on an expert server where all the icons and help features are normally switched off.  Will they need to use dead reckoning to lead a target up to 1500m away or would some aim assists be hard coded to function for them no matter what the server settings are?

At least there should be altitude information and distance. And a way to put it into action

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7 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

And here is to hoping they one day integrate infantry, even in small numbers, as Steel Fury 1942 has. They are non playable yet they up the immersion on the ground 100%. There was some whisperings that this was being talked about on the Russian IL2 forum. Lets hope it happens some day.;)

 

S!Blade<><


I completely agree! Infantry would make it look so much better.

On another note, you can't really complain to @Jason_Williams. You remember when they added the two tanks without cockpits just for the fun of it, and people got super-stoked for a tank project? 

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5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I wonder how the AA trucks will go on an expert server where all the icons and help features are normally switched off.  Will they need to use dead reckoning to lead a target up to 1500m away or would some aim assists be hard coded to function for them no matter what the server settings are?


"up to" being the key phrase/adverb.

7 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

And here is to hoping they one day integrate infantry, even in small numbers, as Steel Fury 1942 has. They are non playable yet they up the immersion on the ground 100%. There was some whisperings that this was being talked about on the Russian IL2 forum. Lets hope it happens some day.;)

 

S!Blade<><

 

Hell yeah. I thought I'd be right into Tank Crew but I have to quietly say that IMHO without infantry there's just no atmosphere. I've never played Steel Fury but have seen plenty of gameplay vids and it definitely makes a huge difference. Steel Fury vids ooze atmosphere. Should they come to Tank Crew I suspect I'll be on board in an instant.

 

Edited by FlyingNutcase

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16 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

...

Richard Overy’s book, Bombing War Europe 1939-45 mentions a British study conducted by the Air Ministry which calculated an average expenditure of 6000 anti aircraft rounds to bring down a single aircraft.  At night it was higher, with the same source quoting a raid on Moscow on 21-22 July 1942 which used 29000 rounds for one aircraft destroyed.  
...

 

 

A potential issue with averages is the old "head in a freezer, legs in an oven, average temperature normal" situation.  We can pretty safely assume that the number of rounds required to hit a bomber at 20-30,000 ft with single shot guns (i.e. disconnected shots) is going to be a heck of a lot more than at low level on strafing runs with auto-cannons. How many rounds might it take to hit a fighter bomber flying almost directly at you at 300-500 metres? Time will tell!

 

The Moscow raid referenced was the first raid on Moscow. Chances are pretty good that the AA gunners and commanders were low on expertise and experience with had poor coordination between batteries and likely poor ranging-finding equipment, and were probably caught by surprise - so it is likely an outlier mentioned by the author as a "shocking" fact to grab attention. That's about all it's likely useful for, and I guess as a worst case baseline.

 

Anyway JMT on it.

 

[Edit] Late thought: As a battery commander in Stalin's Russia, who would want to be the guy whose battery didn't fire a shot in the defence of Moscow? Perhaps, especially if caught off guard,  even a lot of rounds went up blind or as potluck suppression fire to avoid a trip to the forest. ☠️

Edited by FlyingNutcase

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I think I’d happily prefer going up against human flak gunners in the 10 seconds I spend in the target at low level, compared to the crack AI with their built-in early warning system and sniper aim.  

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55 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I think I’d happily prefer going up against human flak gunners in the 10 seconds I spend in the target at low level, compared to the crack AI with their built-in early warning system and sniper aim.  

 

Human gunners will be poor compared to the AI until the point where you try to fly in a straight line towards them for a gun/rocket run. As soon as you become a static target from the gunner's point of view, they will nail you with every single one of those 200+ rpm shells like no AI ever has.

 

The AI can make difficult shots and has to be told to miss. Even on easy shots, the AI is told to miss.

Humans can't often make difficult shots, but when an easy shot comes, they will almost never miss.

 

Flying directly towards or directly over a human flak gun at low level will be total suicide.

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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1 minute ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Human gunners will be poor compared to the AI until the point where you try to fly in a straight line towards them for a gun/rocket run.


Oh, I’ll troll the **** out of those guys by flying around them in circles at 1500m until they wish they had thought this thing through.  Be sure. 

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9 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

Flying directly towards or directly over a human flak gun at low level will be total suicide.

 

As I brought down a number of planes with the current tank main guns I think pretty much this.

Longest hit I ever hat was a He 111 at 1800 meters. 

 

Over time I also got a lot better with deflection shots. 

 

The thing is, behavior against AI can be learned, against players it will be harder.

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17 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Will the AA guns carry infinite ammo?

 

Richard Overy’s book, Bombing War Europe 1939-45 mentions a British study conducted by the Air Ministry which calculated an average expenditure of 6000 anti aircraft rounds to bring down a single aircraft.  At night it was higher, with the same source quoting a raid on Moscow on 21-22 July 1942 which used 29000 rounds for one aircraft destroyed.  
 

Assuming there will be some powerful aim assists to make it say, ten times easier to hit a plane than it was in real life, your average player would still need rather a lot of ammunition and a significant amount of time to keep the target in range to expend it.  Will the guns therefore carry more rounds, or will they perhaps be made more powerful so as to have a chance of a kill in the limited time they have to fire?

 


While this is both true and a good point, the new vehicles are tactical and short-ranged AA weapons that were never (probably) used for barrage fire but against individual targets within several thousand feet. Ratio of rounds per kill was likely still high, but probably not as great as the larger area defence batteries.

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I think that $25 per collector ''tank'' (no offers in mind) is too expensive (I don't know what will be the final result).

 

Full price of TC is $80: $8/tank

 

It can be really bad for TC future.

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6 minutes ago, LF_Tigre91 said:

I think that $25 per collector ''tank'' (no offers in mind) is too expensive (I don't know what will be the final result).

 

Full price of TC is $80: $8/tank

 

It can be really bad for TC future.

I don't think $ 25 is expensive, considering how much time I can spend in my free time until the end of my life ..... To be honest, there are many other free time activities that are more expensive ....
 

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11 minutes ago, LF_Tigre91 said:

I think that $25 per collector ''tank'' (no offers in mind) is too expensive (I don't know what will be the final result).

 

Full price of TC is $80: $8/tank

 

 

If we can get new US or British tanks (for Bodenplatte and Normandy maps) at 25USD ou even 30 USD, I agree immediately because the other solution is that we get NOTHING.....my choice is done.😉

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I find the idea of having collector vehicles, collector ships, collector trains, collector pilots, collector OBJECTS, you name it perfectly sound if this is the price to pay to get more for the game and enrich the theater. I find the price a little high for a vehicle (I would have thought around 10 US$). Now until seeig the finalized quality, detail and animation it is difficult to say. Anyway I will buy them only if they become additional vehicles that will be available in the editor, and that can be integrated in all the BOX scenarios like all the existing vehicles, in columns or alone. Will this be so?

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34 minutes ago, LF_Tigre91 said:

I think that $25 per collector ''tank'' (no offers in mind) is too expensive (I don't know what will be the final result).

 

Full price of TC is $80: $8/tank

 

It can be really bad for TC future.

 

It is. A new player go check the store page and see a long list of DLCs totaling in 1000 euro. What will he do next? He will lol and go buy something else at best, at worst he go somewhere else and post a few messages about crazy IL-2 DLC fest, spreading bad impressions.

 

Just because some die hard flight simmers think 20 to 30 euro per piece is fair enough it does not make it so in the eyes of great majority of the gamers. They will just think it is overpriced crap. And there you go then, hand in hand with Train Sim train. You only get people who are nuts on the genre. The only growth you can get is by asking even more of the new DLC, making the downward spiral deeper.

 

This said more reasonably priced DLCs do not guarantee growth. WW2 flight simming is a niche, but it will be like guaranteed to be a niche with high one piece  DLC prices. So the choices are take a risk and lower prices and not get more sales, leading to decreased development. Or keep prices high, guaranteed to keep niche and get some development.

 

In my opinion serious marketing efforts is needed, and the best way to make marketing is to begin to make esports competitions. Flight Sims have like way more depth than CS:GO and could be way more entertaining to watch, especially now with combined arms in IL-2.

 

So there should be major and minor tournaments. Minor tournaments would be 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3, and 4vs4 scrambles. Major tournaments would be mini campaigns, say 5 sequential mission sets for combined arms. Ultimate tournament would be a major campaign.

 

Balance issues would be severe, but those could be dealt with by limiting the availability of certain planes, and maybe even by letting the losing side get better planes as reinforcements.

 

It is a slow uphill struggle, but steps must be taken, even if one step at a time, which is anyway how you get anywhere, one step at a time, and after thousands of steps you are somewhere.

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6 hours ago, FlyingNutcase said:


 

 

Hell yeah. I thought I'd be right into Tank Crew but I have to quietly say that IMHO without infantry there's just no atmosphere. I've never played Steel Fury but have seen plenty of gameplay vids and it definitely makes a huge difference. Steel Fury vids ooze atmosphere. Should they come to Tank Crew I suspect I'll be on board in an instant.

 

 

I did play Steel Fury and can confirm it was AWESOME. When TC was in development I brought this up here several times: a successful TC needed only try to emulate steel fury somewhat. AI infantry allowing for combined arms situations is 90% of the reason. Maybe TC will get there someday.

 

This is more or less what I had in mind when I said a few pages ago that I rather have playable scout cars than flak. But I got "flak" for that comment; it was shot out of the sky; it was... ach, I cant think of another pun.

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3 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

It is. A new player go check the store page and see a long list of DLCs totaling in 1000 euro. What will he do next? He will lol and go buy something else at best, at worst he go somewhere else and post a few messages about crazy IL-2 DLC fest, spreading bad impressions.

 

Just because some die hard flight simmers think 20 to 30 euro per piece is fair enough it does not make it so in the eyes of great majority of the gamers. They will just think it is overpriced crap. And there you go then, hand in hand with Train Sim train. You only get people who are nuts on the genre. The only growth you can get is by asking even more of the new DLC, making the downward spiral deeper.

 

This said more reasonably priced DLCs do not guarantee growth. WW2 flight simming is a niche, but it will be like guaranteed to be a niche with high one piece  DLC prices. So the choices are take a risk and lower prices and not get more sales, leading to decreased development. Or keep prices high, guaranteed to keep niche and get some development.

 

In my opinion serious marketing efforts is needed, and the best way to make marketing is to begin to make esports competitions. Flight Sims have like way more depth than CS:GO and could be way more entertaining to watch, especially now with combined arms in IL-2.

 

So there should be major and minor tournaments. Minor tournaments would be 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3, and 4vs4 scrambles. Major tournaments would be mini campaigns, say 5 sequential mission sets for combined arms. Ultimate tournament would be a major campaign.

 

Balance issues would be severe, but those could be dealt with by limiting the availability of certain planes, and maybe even by letting the losing side get better planes as reinforcements.

 

It is a slow uphill struggle, but steps must be taken, even if one step at a time, which is anyway how you get anywhere, one step at a time, and after thousands of steps you are somewhere.

As one who’s been here since the beginning, I can honestly say the money I’ve spent isn’t regretted a bit. Someone coming along now has lost out on years of enjoyment. The whys and wherefores aren’t anyone’s fault. Certainly not the developers. It isn’t as if this series was kept secret. I look it all as an investment in something I enjoy. If the expense is too much for some, that’s life. There’s plenty of products that are out of my reach too. To buy into this series doesn’t need to be as expensive as you claim. It isn’t a secret either that frequent sales are run. You also don’t need to buy everything at once to get enjoyment out of this series. 
 

All in all, your argument sounds like sour grapes to me. 

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1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

I find the idea of having collector vehicles, collector ships, collector trains, collector pilots, collector OBJECTS, you name it perfectly sound if this is the price to pay to get more for the game and enrich the theater. I find the price a little high for a vehicle (I would have thought around 10 US$). Now until seeig the finalized quality, detail and animation it is difficult to say. Anyway I will buy them only if they become additional vehicles that will be available in the editor, and that can be integrated in all the BOX scenarios like all the existing vehicles, in columns or alone. Will this be so?

 

Fingers crossed ... but i am still learning the ME, slowly progressing. Now with TC vehicles on the new Vluki map ...

Found no issues really there, other than with waypointing, and sometimes intern collisions in columns with some settings i cannot explain.

Under attack (from a plane) there are some surprising Ai movements like half of the column getting stuck, for a while or so.

 

F.i with tanks, and an in-between tanks (ai only vehiclea) AA truck stopping and shooting at those planes.

They also shoot at some unseen ground targets too, and the all of a sudden they start moving again.

 

For TC controllable objects  Dense, Safe  or loose etc seems not always following the command formation settings.

A relation with a waypoint's high, med or low settings there?

 

Vluki summer scenery BTW looks a lot better than making TC stuff for the Rheinland map as it's now.

Details and and so for especially the vehicles are worth while as you see more of them than in a plane dogfight.

 

Any way, re- organizing all the objects in the ME's object viewer might me a wise move, as it's getting more and more confusing. 

Edited by jollyjack

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Please Flying Circus collector planes next.

 

Pfalz D.XII and Hanriot HD.1 😁

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I have no idea about simulation business but I think that if Jason find two or three studios doing quality job, a good way to take money is to offer regularly, some contents (planes, vehicles, ships) at the right cost (everyone need to lives from his work) ....and fans will purchase what they consider as valuable in the game (in their own interest of course).

Edited by CCG_Pips
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35 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

It is. A new player go check the store page and see a long list of DLCs totaling in 1000 euro. What will he do next? He will lol and go buy something else at best, at worst he go somewhere else and post a few messages about crazy IL-2 DLC fest, spreading bad impressions.

 

...

 

If they are interested then hopefully they will ask a question.  If they ask a  question they will learn that they can get a completely playable game for $40, not $1000, and that they have six completely playable games to choose from between the price of under $40 to $80 for the newest.

 

If they enquire further they will learn that the collector planes are not required at all.  If one of then really intrigues then it can be had for $10 - $30, the price of 1-3 movie tickets or 2-6 hours entertainment.  Odds are that if they are intrigued they will get that much value out of them easily.

 

Finally, if they are not intrigued then they can stay away.  You don't need every (or any) collector vehicle.  Many of us buy them to support the team as a whole, because we want to support this company that is producing what we feel is a great product.  Many of us recognize that over time we will get enough value for out money (I have had that experience with the Ju52). 

 

That behavior is not obligatory by any means.   If riding in a flak vehicle does not sound interesting enough to pay $25 then one should choose not to do so.   It will have no impact on that players enjoyment of the rest of the game.  If the flak vehicles do not recoup costs then it is an indication to the company that more along those lines will not be profitable.  So it goes.

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9 minutes ago, Rjel said:

As one who’s been here since the beginning, I can honestly say the money I’ve spent isn’t regretted a bit. Someone coming along now has lost out on years of enjoyment. The whys and wherefores aren’t anyone’s fault. Certainly not the developers. It isn’t as if this series was kept secret. I look it all as an investment in something I enjoy. If the expense is too much for some, that’s life. There’s plenty of products that are out of my reach too. To buy into this series doesn’t need to be as expensive as you claim. It isn’t a secret either that frequent sales are run. You also don’t need to buy everything at once to get enjoyment out of this series. 
 

All in all, your argument sounds like sour grapes to me. 

 

Of what I should be sour? I was merely writing a fact regarding the prices of DLCs, and then I wrote suggestion of what could be done to make IL-2 more popular.

 

By the way what is that "since the beginning"? For me it was Blue Max, still remember fondly that game. It was not much, but for the time being it was the best. Before that it was WW2 comics (Ilmojen Korkeajännitys, Siivet), DIY planes, crafting flyable mini planes, books, and after Blue Max some other scrolling WW2 shooters, before first gen of flight sims like Knights of the Sky, Red Baron, SWoL, BAB, F-117 Nighthawk, Dawn Patrol, every WW1 or WW2 themed flying game in Amiga for that matter, Ace of Aces, Their Finest Hour, 1942 Pacific, All IL-2 before BoX, Cliffs of Dover, and many more I just don't recall now.

 

I have got tens of years of entertainment and excellent value for my hard earned money. I have maybe used more money on flight stuff than what is the value of whatever piece of crap car you are driving. And you come mouth breath drool mumble me something about sour grapes because I say 20 - 30 euro DLC of a plane is too much for the majority of gamers, like it would be MY problem? It is the problem of this specific gaming industry. And you get zero respect acting like you would be a big rich boy able to afford pathetic 20 - 30 euro DLC. If that is the way how you boost your ego, then, well, good luck in your life.

 

What you said makes me anyway convinced in that this current Train Sim way is a bad way because there will just be more self-entitled people imagining they are elite because they are a minority and "can afford" to pay 20 to 30 euro of a single item DLC. FYI, there are millions of people who can afford that, but they don't. They spend their money in other games, and that is the problem. You with your 30 euro DLC are not helping in that a bit. I want you to become replaced by masses of enthusiastic new players doing virtual combat flying because it is awesome, and not as an ego booster because "can afford".

 

So, no, you can't help me get all the stuff I want in WW2 flight sims. Masses can help me get that. Masses can help me spend much more in flight sims. And masses help me have way more better time in this genre than you and your types.

 

 

BOOOM! You have just been destroyed by a direct hit by a tank in place where I was conscripted. Now become replaced by even a single new player to the scene.

 

20170615_0028.jpg

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@Gambit21 and @BraveSirRobin

 

That's a lot of questions so I'm not going to quote, but everything you guys mentioned I think you can do.

 

You can spawn in AI vehicles that will move in formation with your vehicle including in multiplayer.

The time parameter can be easily set in the editor for refuel rearm, repair or reheal. I will have to test if you can NOT do some of these things.

You can make the RRR vehicle invulnerable and then take that feature away whenever you want with a trigger and Command Behavior MCU, or give it back

You can change the effective RRR radius but it stays the same for the entire mission

The armored SdKfz 251 transport vehicles now refuel since I reported it did not work before, as well as the ambulance, Opel Blitz fuel truck, GazAA, etc. That was fixed in the last update.

You can spawn in these vehicles at any point in the mission with a simple trigger and spawn MCU


This is fairly self explanatory. I'm not sure where the process is listed, but all you have to do to RRR is shut off the engine and open a hatch.

 

 Refuel.thumb.png.0de97ef7616eae52ecfc96812da0835d.png

 

This is how I would select rearm only. I will test it and see if it refuels and repairs as well, but it should work. The multiplier is now how many minutes it takes to complete. They just updated that in the last patch too. It used to not do anything and all the actions were completed in about 2 seconds. You don't want to put in "10" anymore.

 

If I missed anything, let me know. If you need help figuring out how to do it just shoot me a PM. I happen to be working on more tank missions now ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister

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10 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I do have a question : will these new vehicles be better modeled than the AI versions  currently in game?🧐

 

The images in the developer diary already answer that as yes. I'd expect these to be done at the same level as the tanks that Digital Forms has done. IMHO I think they are squeezing as much detail out of the engine as they can with the work they've done.

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14 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

Of what I should be sour? I was merely writing a fact regarding the prices of DLCs, and then I wrote suggestion of what could be done to make IL-2 more popular.

 

By the way what is that "since the beginning"? For me it was Blue Max, still remember fondly that game. It was not much, but for the time being it was the best. Before that it was WW2 comics (Ilmojen Korkeajännitys, Siivet), DIY planes, crafting flyable mini planes, books, and after Blue Max some other scrolling WW2 shooters, before first gen of flight sims like Knights of the Sky, Red Baron, SWoL, BAB, F-117 Nighthawk, Dawn Patrol, every WW1 or WW2 themed flying game in Amiga for that matter, Ace of Aces, Their Finest Hour, 1942 Pacific, All IL-2 before BoX, Cliffs of Dover, and many more I just don't recall now.

 

I have got tens of years of entertainment and excellent value for my hard earned money. I have maybe used more money on flight stuff than what is the value of whatever piece of crap car you are driving. And you come mouth breath drool mumble me something about sour grapes because I say 20 - 30 euro DLC of a plane is too much for the majority of gamers, like it would be MY problem? It is the problem of this specific gaming industry. And you get zero respect acting like you would be a big rich boy able to afford pathetic 20 - 30 euro DLC. If that is the way how you boost your ego, then, well, good luck in your life.

 

What you said makes me anyway convinced in that this current Train Sim way is a bad way because there will just be more self-entitled people imagining they are elite because they are a minority and "can afford" to pay 20 to 30 euro of a single item DLC. FYI, there are millions of people who can afford that, but they don't. They spend their money in other games, and that is the problem. You with your 30 euro DLC are not helping in that a bit. I want you to become replaced by masses of enthusiastic new players doing virtual combat flying because it is awesome, and not as an ego booster because "can afford".

 

So, no, you can't help me get all the stuff I want in WW2 flight sims. Masses can help me get that. Masses can help me spend much more in flight sims. And masses help me have way more better time in this genre than you and your types.

 

 

BOOOM! You have just been destroyed by a direct hit by a tank in place where I was conscripted. Now become replaced by even a single new player to the scene.

 

20170615_0028.jpg

 

Without any ofence - for you is better War Thunder (for example). Its free to play (ehm). 

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On 9/23/2020 at 6:07 PM, CountZero said:

In MP you dont have anything resembaling history, and where do some mods fit in historical sim if they were not used on any maps or battles and we still have them ?

 

EDIT: also i dont remenber any M4A2 “Sherman” at Prokhorovka , maybe im wrong ?

 

To have a demo mission for the M4A2 on the Prokhorovka map it was necessary to invent a hypothetical situation that may or may not have happened... :biggrin:

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57 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

If they are interested then hopefully they will ask a question.  If they ask a  question they will learn that they can get a completely playable game for $40, not $1000, and that they have six completely playable games to choose from between the price of under $40 to $80 for the newest.

 

If they enquire further they will learn that the collector planes are not required at all.  If one of then really intrigues then it can be had for $10 - $30, the price of 1-3 movie tickets or 2-6 hours entertainment.  Odds are that if they are intrigued they will get that much value out of them easily.

 

Finally, if they are not intrigued then they can stay away.  You don't need every (or any) collector vehicle.  Many of us buy them to support the team as a whole, because we want to support this company that is producing what we feel is a great product.  Many of us recognize that over time we will get enough value for out money (I have had that experience with the Ju52). 

 

That behavior is not obligatory by any means.   If riding in a flak vehicle does not sound interesting enough to pay $25 then one should choose not to do so.   It will have no impact on that players enjoyment of the rest of the game.  If the flak vehicles do not recoup costs then it is an indication to the company that more along those lines will not be profitable.  So it goes.

 

Yeah, it could be so. For me it is irrelevant how it is. What is relevant is that there should be more new players, hence the question is how to get them, and one answer is esports. That is how some  ther companies have made their games to become big hits, up to the point it is novodays hard to imagine said games being popular without the major esports around them.

 

Anyway, will leave this discussion since I am only interested of civilized discussions looking for solutions. I am not interested of sand box wars tossing shit around like at the moment majority (2) are interested of.

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13 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I can’t change any vehicle properties with editor logic other than coalition. So once the player vehicle is set for unlimited ammo - that’s it.

 

Yes you can, look in the Command Behavior MCU advanced properties and you will see a check box for Limit Ammo. If you wanted to do the "Supply Drop" you guys mentioned earlier. You could set it up where the plane dropped cargo - time delay - disable limited ammo with CB - then disable unlimited ammo after rearm is complete = Rearm supply drop and back to limited ammo.

 

 Ammo.png.577498622afe7e4161dd99f56a3e2958.png

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55 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Yes you can, look in the Command Behavior MCU advanced properties and you will see a check box for Limit Ammo. If you wanted to do the "Supply Drop" you guys mentioned earlier. You could set it up where the plane dropped cargo - time delay - disable limited ammo with CB - then disable unlimited ammo after rearm is complete = Rearm supply drop and back to limited ammo.

 

 Ammo.png.577498622afe7e4161dd99f56a3e2958.png

 

 

Great!

Never examined that MCU before.

Thank you!

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1 hour ago, messsucher said:

 

Of what I should be sour? I was merely writing a fact regarding the prices of DLCs, and then I wrote suggestion of what could be done to make IL-2 more popular.

 

By the way what is that "since the beginning"? For me it was Blue Max, still remember fondly that game. It was not much, but for the time being it was the best. Before that it was WW2 comics (Ilmojen Korkeajännitys, Siivet), DIY planes, crafting flyable mini planes, books, and after Blue Max some other scrolling WW2 shooters, before first gen of flight sims like Knights of the Sky, Red Baron, SWoL, BAB, F-117 Nighthawk, Dawn Patrol, every WW1 or WW2 themed flying game in Amiga for that matter, Ace of Aces, Their Finest Hour, 1942 Pacific, All IL-2 before BoX, Cliffs of Dover, and many more I just don't recall now.

 

I have got tens of years of entertainment and excellent value for my hard earned money. I have maybe used more money on flight stuff than what is the value of whatever piece of crap car you are driving. And you come mouth breath drool mumble me something about sour grapes because I say 20 - 30 euro DLC of a plane is too much for the majority of gamers, like it would be MY problem? It is the problem of this specific gaming industry. And you get zero respect acting like you would be a big rich boy able to afford pathetic 20 - 30 euro DLC. If that is the way how you boost your ego, then, well, good luck in your life.

 

What you said makes me anyway convinced in that this current Train Sim way is a bad way because there will just be more self-entitled people imagining they are elite because they are a minority and "can afford" to pay 20 to 30 euro of a single item DLC. FYI, there are millions of people who can afford that, but they don't. They spend their money in other games, and that is the problem. You with your 30 euro DLC are not helping in that a bit. I want you to become replaced by masses of enthusiastic new players doing virtual combat flying because it is awesome, and not as an ego booster because "can afford".

 

So, no, you can't help me get all the stuff I want in WW2 flight sims. Masses can help me get that. Masses can help me spend much more in flight sims. And masses help me have way more better time in this genre than you and your types.

 

 

BOOOM! You have just been destroyed by a direct hit by a tank in place where I was conscripted. Now become replaced by even a single new player to the scene.

 

20170615_0028.jpg

I’m guessing your native language isn’t English as a lot of what you’ve written here is gibberish and really doesn’t reflect my prior comments in the least. You might want to read what I wrote again to see if you missed my point. 
 

As to my being replaced by the masses and your comical BOOOM “threat”, I can only laugh. More players are always welcome. Opinions like your don’t reflect the “masses” already here though.  
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Rjel said:

I’m guessing your native language isn’t English as a lot of what you’ve written here is gibberish and really doesn’t reflect my prior comments in the least. You might want to read what I wrote again to see if you missed my point. 
 

As to my being replaced by the masses and your comical BOOOM “threat”, I can only laugh. More players are always welcome. Opinions like your don’t reflect the “masses” already here though.  
 

 

 

Oh what a genius! My first language is not English! No way! That is what certain type of people write as their last ad hominem, when they are absolutely out of any other arguments. But what if it was you who missed the point? You already admitted you can't read very well, predicting it is simplified English you understand the best, and if something else, then all you can do is scratch your head and write something like captain obvious, when clueless janitor is the proper fit.

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