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Discussion of GAZ-MM 72-K and Sd.Kfz. 10/5 Flak 38 Vehicle Mounted AAA Pre-Orders

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3 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Me too.

Quad 40 bofurs are overdue.

 

 

I'm actually a little surprised that this isn't already a thing.  It "feels" like a static gun would be even easier than a truck.  Then once you've got one done it gets easier to do more of them.  Then Jason plans his vacation in Tahiti.  Or maybe it isn't that easy...

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11 hours ago, Lord_Strange said:

In that case I hope enough mission designers decide to include the AA vehicles, even if they don't include tanks. This has the potential to really change the dynamic of multiplayer missions.

I agree, these two vehicles hold a lot of potential to really change it up for both MP and SP game play depending on how they are implemented.

 

If the AA vehicles are like the rest of the TC vehicles, and I am guessing that they will be, then they should prove to be a really interesting addition. This should mean multi-crew, one person drives and the other one shots. Or a single player should be able to also drive from the gunners position. Or a single player should be able to command a platoon of tanks from an AA vehicle using the command menu. Coordinating a platoon of tanks to attack ground targets while providing protection from low level attacking aircraft will make for some really challenging missions.

 

8 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

It will be interesting to see how difficult it will be to actually knock down an aircraft in this sim, I've gotten pretty decent at it in Warthunder with the Werbelwind, but given how much more advanced the damage models in this sim are than that game, I can imagine I'll be able to hit them but not necessarily actually knock them down. 

I am guessing it wont be easy, especially for faster aircraft at longer ranges.

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The M15 should be fun to use, though kinda goofy trying to aim both the 37mm and .50 cals at the same time given their different ballistics.

M15_CGMC.jpg


1280px-M15_Halftrack_in_Normandy.jpg

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3 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Since the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 was announced I would like to make some suggestions for additional modifications along with potential new units.

 

No WIP pictures of the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 have shown up yet but seeing the black side picture at the pre-order page I suspect it will end up looking like this :

SdKfz_10_flak_1.jpg.d226849c9bf2f6acd93d7a066182613d.jpg

For modifications, the following might be possible:

 

Armor plates added to the driver’s cabin + to the front of the radiator: this is shown in the following picture (another picture at the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer) :

SdKfz_10_flak_2.jpg.e997f4b8f8f8115a9d3654ec684ea795.jpg

Sd. Ah. 51 Trailer with ammo box : this could be used to carry additional ammo, the following 3 pics show the trailer empty, the trailer with ammo box and the trailer with ammo box behind the 10/5.

2136294723_Sd_Ah.51_1.jpg.375821525ea81033a11fec186ebd671e.jpg1211131842_Sd_Ah.51_2.jpg.5a52fa7b26b1531812fc429d0b71af3f.jpgSdKfz_10_flak_3.jpg.f1d5149d63188b0c0db4fb1c6958f81a.jpg

No gun shield on the Flak 38:

SdKfz_10_flak_4.jpg.a0adba857de07f9bb43313a86db6bfd2.jpg

AP Ammo: We likely will receive HE shells with self-detonation on certain distance but it’s unconfirmed if we get any AP ammo, while I couldn’t find much info on specific AP shells for the flak 38 they were used.

 

AP ammo would add additional gameplay since it could be used against light armored targets that HE can’t deal with (Like Bt7/T70) also possibly against medium tanks/tank destroyers when flanking them from either the side or the rear from short range.

There also existed PzGr. 40 with higher penetration but I suspect it was reserved for armored cars/pz II that had an higher chance to meet tanks on the frontline so it’s likely units with the flak 38 didn’t receive that.

 

 

Removing the gun and adding extra ammo as cargo instead : while useless for combat when driving it yourself, this could be useful in multiplayer where one player drives the 10/5 with the flak and another supplies it with extra ammo, it could also be used under ai control as ammo supply vehicle, maybe not the best source but on wiki (at the section about Deployment and use) it's stated additional 10/4 and 10/5 where used to carry extra ammunition.

 

New Units:

 

Flak 38 from the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 as an static item : this could be useful for mission designers since the flak 38 as an static was more commonly used and could be placed on locations which the sdkfz 10 can’t reach (like an entrenched position/top of an building/enz), the following 2 pics show the flak 38 as static without and with the shield, the no shield could be an additional modification.

Flak_38_2.jpg.720b96d3f304f2957d902d8bf8d9cc84.jpgFlak_38_1.jpg.ad405c27d99588fc9ec2ce75bb7f8469.jpg

Sd.Ah.51 Trailer with Flak 38 : If the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer is created then it could also be combinded with the static flak 38 to make it more mobile (few km/h since it’s pushed by infantry), it also could be used as an trailer on the Sd.Kfz. 10/5, the following 3 pics show the gun with shield and no shield, 3rd picture is an 10/4 towing an additional flak, while it's an 10/4 it's likely the 10/5 was used in an similar way.

Flak_38_3.png.44145af27fe3a9216c54a1f98799af29.pngFlak_38_4.jpg.b9b4f8597141c497e5f7efc989e54d04.jpgSdKfz_10_flak_5.jpg.663aaa1bae7d97b4125710a267f4257d.jpg

Thanks for all the info and pics. I don't think the ammo trailer was mentioned in the announcement, but some of the AI artillery pieces in-game do have them, so its always possible. All the same, I am looking forward to the new vehicles. 

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34 минуты назад, BraveSirRobin сказал:

 

I'm actually a little surprised that this isn't already a thing.  It "feels" like a static gun would be even easier than a truck.  Then once you've got one done it gets easier to do more of them.  Then Jason plans his vacation in Tahiti.  Or maybe it isn't that easy...

Carrier, SP, 4×4 40-мм, AA 30cwt

825C4467-0345-4E92-AE14-95B68D0D0315.jpeg

Edited by =5GIAP=Eeafanas

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Not as "DCS: Combined Arms Quality " but with DCS prices. $24.99, really for this Level of Detail...........................

 

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I am so looking forward to these 2 vehicles! 

I also like the fact these are not restricted to TC! 

I already bought TC, but IMHO if turned into a bundle or sale together with TC it might be an incentive to get more people into this type of non aviation Warfare!? 

DCS combined arms is not up to TC at all and might never be and this is another opportunity to...

show it. 

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Cool stuff. Great models. Sounds like fun. I will order when I get a chance.

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5 hours ago, Livai said:

Not as "DCS: Combined Arms Quality " but with DCS prices. $24.99, really for this Level of Detail...........................

 

 

4 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I am so looking forward to these 2 vehicles! 

I also like the fact these are not restricted to TC! 

I already bought TC, but IMHO if turned into a bundle or sale together with TC it might be an incentive to get more people into this type of non aviation Warfare!? 

DCS combined arms is not up to TC at all and might never be and this is another opportunity to...

show it. 

What level of detail have we seen so far? If you mean to compare the level of detail for the current Tank Crew vehicles with DCS, then I think you got it just about right, only in reverse. Based on detail of the Tank Crew vehicles alone, the price should probably be more like $99.42.

 

DCS offers a great package. If you are into jets, that is the place to be at the moment. And like the IL2 GB series, DCS has a real nice offering of WWII aircraft with the 2 dedicated time period maps both being really well done. It has a good assortment of vehicles with infantry that are still heavily bug ridden and limited in functionality. I have both the combined arms, and their WWII assets pack, which are both under supported because of the heavy requirements needed to service the jets and map infrastructure they are invested in.

 

But I think that on this side of things, the two new collector vehicles are going to widen even further IL2's lead on the WWII front.

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11 hours ago, FlyingNutcase said:

Talking of modifications, how about a "Tree Branch Camo" one?

bushes.thumb.JPG.33776bb5cf3a5fb8002b3f7a6f9b76bd.JPG

No shit, this could really be useful. As a guy who goes for anti air guns first, I imagine it would take a lot more effort to find one dressed as in your pic!

3 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

 

What level of detail have we seen so far? If you mean to compare the level of detail for the current Tank Crew vehicles with DCS, then I think you got it just about right, only in reverse. Based on detail of the Tank Crew vehicles alone, the price should probably be more like $99.42.

The tanks featured in TC are special in a lot of ways, level of detail being one of them. Still getting upgraded too.  As long as they`d integrate into IL2:GB servers they`re usable and thus worth the price. Now the sp campaign though....needs a lot of work to make the strickly sp experience hold up.

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16 часов назад, ww2fighter20 сказал:

Since the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 was announced I would like to make some suggestions for additional modifications along with potential new units.

 

No WIP pictures of the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 have shown up yet but seeing the black side picture at the pre-order page I suspect it will end up looking like this :

SdKfz_10_flak_1.jpg.d226849c9bf2f6acd93d7a066182613d.jpg

For modifications, the following might be possible:

 

Armor plates added to the driver’s cabin + to the front of the radiator: this is shown in the following picture (another picture at the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer) :

SdKfz_10_flak_2.jpg.e997f4b8f8f8115a9d3654ec684ea795.jpg

Sd. Ah. 51 Trailer with ammo box : this could be used to carry additional ammo, the following 3 pics show the trailer empty, the trailer with ammo box and the trailer with ammo box behind the 10/5.

2136294723_Sd_Ah.51_1.jpg.375821525ea81033a11fec186ebd671e.jpg1211131842_Sd_Ah.51_2.jpg.5a52fa7b26b1531812fc429d0b71af3f.jpgSdKfz_10_flak_3.jpg.f1d5149d63188b0c0db4fb1c6958f81a.jpg

No gun shield on the Flak 38:

SdKfz_10_flak_4.jpg.a0adba857de07f9bb43313a86db6bfd2.jpg

AP Ammo: We likely will receive HE shells with self-detonation on certain distance but it’s unconfirmed if we get any AP ammo, while I couldn’t find much info on specific AP shells for the flak 38 they were used.

 

AP ammo would add additional gameplay since it could be used against light armored targets that HE can’t deal with (Like Bt7/T70) also possibly against medium tanks/tank destroyers when flanking them from either the side or the rear from short range.

There also existed PzGr. 40 with higher penetration but I suspect it was reserved for armored cars/pz II that had an higher chance to meet tanks on the frontline so it’s likely units with the flak 38 didn’t receive that.

 

 

Removing the gun and adding extra ammo as cargo instead : while useless for combat when driving it yourself, this could be useful in multiplayer where one player drives the 10/5 with the flak and another supplies it with extra ammo, it could also be used under ai control as ammo supply vehicle, maybe not the best source but on wiki (at the section about Deployment and use) it's stated additional 10/4 and 10/5 where used to carry extra ammunition.

 

New Units:

 

Flak 38 from the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 as an static item : this could be useful for mission designers since the flak 38 as an static was more commonly used and could be placed on locations which the sdkfz 10 can’t reach (like an entrenched position/top of an building/enz), the following 2 pics show the flak 38 as static without and with the shield, the no shield could be an additional modification.

Flak_38_2.jpg.720b96d3f304f2957d902d8bf8d9cc84.jpgFlak_38_1.jpg.ad405c27d99588fc9ec2ce75bb7f8469.jpg

Sd.Ah.51 Trailer with Flak 38 : If the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer is created then it could also be combinded with the static flak 38 to make it more mobile (few km/h since it’s pushed by infantry), it also could be used as an trailer on the Sd.Kfz. 10/5, the following 3 pics show the gun with shield and no shield, 3rd picture is an 10/4 towing an additional flak, while it's an 10/4 it's likely the 10/5 was used in an similar way.

Flak_38_3.png.44145af27fe3a9216c54a1f98799af29.pngFlak_38_4.jpg.b9b4f8597141c497e5f7efc989e54d04.jpgSdKfz_10_flak_5.jpg.663aaa1bae7d97b4125710a267f4257d.jpg

In addition to the above, I would like to say that it would be nice to add an anti-aircraft gun shield to the GAZ-MM 72-K.  the photo shows this shield (circled in red)
 

24C9FA63-E3A7-4FDA-B274-2B6B7CF4BCE9.jpeg

0065CAAF-E738-460A-9D99-15E695386276.jpeg

Edited by =5GIAP=Eeafanas

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12 минут назад, migmadmarine сказал:

Don't we already have the 2.0cm FlaK 38 as a static item? or do you mean as playable?

 

Not only playable but also on the chassis of an armored personnel carrier!

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58 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Don't we already have the 2.0cm FlaK 38 as a static item? or do you mean as playable?

 

Yes I meant player controlled.

The static flak we have right now is an simplified low detailed version for ai use.

The flak 38 on the sd.kfz.10 will be of high detail so it also gives an opportunity to make an playable static version, there isn't much difference (if at all) between the static flak 38 and the one on the sd.kfz.10.

 

1 hour ago, =5GIAP=Eeafanas said:

In addition to the above, I would like to say that it would be nice to add an anti-aircraft gun shield to the GAZ-MM 72-K.  the photo shows this shield (circled in red)
 

24C9FA63-E3A7-4FDA-B274-2B6B7CF4BCE9.jpeg

0065CAAF-E738-460A-9D99-15E695386276.jpeg

I haven't done as much research on the Gaz-MM but I did found this picture which shows the gunshield, unsure if it's the GAZ-AA or GAZ-MM though.

25mm_AA_mount.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Based on detail of the Tank Crew vehicles alone, the price should probably be more like $99.42.

I personally like TC far more than DCS Combined Arms.

TC is far more detailed and complicated IMHO.

It all depends on what people expect, but in fact I sttill like both, even the bug ridden DCS CA.

It is not that we have so many other options that grant us a Digital Battlefield ... War Thunder like games targetting another type of players !?

 

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3 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

No shit, this could really be useful. As a guy who goes for anti air guns first, I imagine it would take a lot more effort to find one dressed as in your pic!

 

The tanks featured in TC are special in a lot of ways, level of detail being one of them. Still getting upgraded too.  As long as they`d integrate into IL2:GB servers they`re usable and thus worth the price. Now the sp campaign though....needs a lot of work to make the strickly sp experience hold up.

I agree, the MP crowd here should be able to use these vehicles with great effect if they are delivered with the same abilities as the Tank Crew vehicles. I think the main point regarding MP is that when placed in the right setting, the new vehicles should help to improve the mixed game play between ground and air assets. From listening in on the numerous threads that discuss this aspect, that seems to be one of the problems affecting the level of interest. 

 

Regarding SP, I hadn't given the scripted campaigns too much thought, but I don't see why the new vehicles wouldn't work in those scenarios. But my comments were made more in the context of the SP missions one can make in the mission editor. Having an AA vehicle that you could command a platoon of tank from adds an additional layer, because now you would be able to increase the challenge by adding attacking aircraft against your platoon.

 

Regarding the bold text above, there seems to be a lot hanging on it, so lets hope so.

 

 

2 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I personally like TC far more than DCS Combined Arms.

TC is far more detailed and complicated IMHO.

It all depends on what people expect, but in fact I sttill like both, even the bug ridden DCS CA.

It is not that we have so many other options that grant us a Digital Battlefield ... War Thunder like games targetting another type of players !?

 

Both products have their strengths, and my intention is to continue building out my DCS collection, but I am not set up for serious flying at the moment, so I put the planned hanger full of planes on hold for now.

 

DCS is actually how I discovered Tank Crew, and in terms of AFV, I do prefer Tank Crew by a long shot given the current state of things with CA-WWII assets. That is not to say that Tank Crew doesn't have its problems though, and a lot of things will depend on how and when the issues get resolved. An argument for the new vehicles wont make as much sense if the tanks they are meant to support are left unsupported.

Edited by LachenKrieg

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2 hours ago, Livai said:

 

$99.42 really, when WarThunder can provide this for free. Speaking about Tank Crew, I can't see any animated crew, a animation for every crew action,  how in Red Orchestra 2 or in Post Scriptum. DCS and CloD at least have high poly vehicles how you find in fps shooters . In Tank Crew I see just Low poly vehicles. About Infantry you don't care in Tank Crew? - In real life, tanks don't take a **** without infantry and air support. At least DCS has some kind Infantry.................

Its not that I disagree with some of the points you are now raising here, but this was not really the point I was responding to in your earlier post. Your point then was about the detail of vehicles between the two products. Tank Crew far outclasses the vehicles in DCS at the moment  both inside and out without even getting into features and function.

 

My only concern with Tank Crew at the moment is that it gets left in the current state that it is in. The most recent patch seems to have greatly enhanced the flight part of the sim, but unfortunately anyone in a tank wont be able to make the same claim.

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7 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

No shit, this could really be useful. As a guy who goes for anti air guns first, I imagine it would take a lot more effort to find one dressed as in your pic!

 

Maybe a few of us could put together a flak battalion. 😉

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55 minutes ago, FlyingNutcase said:

 

Maybe a few of us could put together a flak battalion. 😉

Some might laugh at the suggestion but I think it would make a nice change of pace after years of flying.

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Being able to jump into a flak gun on an objective would definitely give you something to do in MP when there’s 10 minutes left on the map and zero chance you could spawn and make it into action in that time.

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15 часов назад, ww2fighter20 сказал:

unsure if it's the GAZ-AA or GAZ-MM though.

25mm_AA_mount.jpg

 

 

439E3863-B94E-4514-8EF8-23BAA4F1EEFB.jpegThis is GAZ-MM

Edited by =5GIAP=Eeafanas

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On 9/23/2020 at 3:15 PM, Elem said:

Who would have guessed?

No, really No. This was light years away from my thoughts. But I am happy to take whatever comes if quality is there.

13 hours ago, =5GIAP=Eeafanas said:

 

439E3863-B94E-4514-8EF8-23BAA4F1EEFB.jpegThis is GAZ-MM

When looking at the vehicle structure and tires, I can only imagine that when the gun was firing the whole vehicle probably was leaping in the air and vibrate to the limits of loosing its parts.

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Fandabidosi! I'm really looking forward to that Hurri II - long been a fave of mine and I've bought the GAZ AAA platform. I've done AAA in another flight sim and it is awesome fun. Actually, I spent about 5 minutes on it then just enjoyed watching the show as my comrades beat off the attacking hordes. Now I can do it in IL-2. Great stuff!

 

As always, thanks for the nice desktop background screenshots.

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2 hours ago, Livai said:

these Collector stuff cost more than in the package

That says it all ... collectors.

I, as a 'collector' am more than willing to pay for additional content.

This is not a 'sin' of IL-2 GB ... many games (sims, MMO's, FPS ...) have this 'feature' as well ... in one form or the other.

AFAIK nobody forced me to buy into this money-grab, but I still don't care ... this content was and still is, to me, far more valuable than the 

 15-19 USD I paid for these GB "collector stuff" modules.

But I do agree and understand ... you surely are not wrong by any account ... because YMMV.  

Edited by simfan2015

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2 hours ago, Livai said:

 

Why I should be wrong...

 

Good question, yet you seem to manage with every post.

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Just ordered the half track. WIll grab the Gaz later. I hope they come with radar/laser guidance like the AI!

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