Bf 109 cockpit size in real life

[OBT-Psycho 47]

yes, really, i mean most people around world were shorter etc, just looks like for ussr it's more typical (revolution, civil war, golodomor, collectivisation and other bad things)...

 

 they'd better be short if they wanted to fit inside a T-34

 

BTW I'd rather be cramped in a 109, even if I fit tightly, than in one of those metal can while being shot at in the middle of a mudfield.

[BigC208 12]

I used to fly gliders. The first glider I flew solo was a K8. I'm 1.96m and around 90kg at the time.. I wore that airplane like a suit.

It was claustrophobic on the ground but once in the air you're mostly outside with your view and attention. I figure the Spit and 109

were like that. For the long range  missions over Germany there's something to be said for a roomy P47 or P51.

[bivalov 78]

they'd better be short if they wanted to fit inside a T-34

yes, but maintenance and other similar things, is hard when you look as little boy'2014... there was lot of hard work, you know...

 

What???    that's a disaster.

hmmm... could be too much love, just a bit, yes...  well, i just mean, i hope that now all will be more historically correctly, he knows more than 90 percents here and devs needs in help...

[sallee 535]

I sat in the Irish Air Force Spitfire trainer. I'm six foot and quite broad shouldered. There wasn't a lot of room!

By the way bongodriver...has anyone asked what the he'll your new avatar is? Is that really your foot? If so....what happened?

Edited May 16, 2014 by sallee

[DD_bongodriver 931]

Yes, it's my foot, it involved a fence and a toboggan.

[sallee 535]

Ow. Had they removed the toboggan from your foot when you took the photo?

[Death1111 27]

Sport02-  I am not sure exactly what you mean, the view from the cockpit that I have is just the standard 1st person view available inside the cockpit. I use this view both in MP where it is required and also for offline play. I never fly externally. That being said I am still waiting for Track IR so once I use that perhaps that will provide me with a more realistic FOV from inside the aircraft.

 

Sorry is this kind of what you were asking me?

[II./JG27_Rich 387]

Yes, it's my foot, it involved a fence and a toboggan.

GAH!!!

 

Edited May 17, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[sport02 14]

Death1111 as your topic talk about size of the cockpit , you can have a realistic impression if you put  fov  corresponding at the real size .

 

 

the compas of the 109 is 11 cm diameter , you can change the fov with the zoom to have this size on the screen .

also I prefer that the game could give you the possibility to determinate the exactly fov depending of the size of the screen and the distant beetween yours eyes and the screen , but not possible with bos , sim racing give you this option .

Edited May 17, 2014 by sport02

[ARM505 25]

Here's my feet in an FW 190. They're all pretty small. I'm 193cm, and with the ones I've sat in I can't close the 'lid'. I've sat in a Spitfire, the FW190 (favourite!) and a functioning Yak 3 of all things (a guy down here in South Africa had one, very impressive to watch! I got to sit in it during maintenance). With the Yak I also needed to bend my neck to close the cockpit, but once it was closed I could sit upright, but my head touched the canopy - no helmet would have fitted. The FW and the Spit are in the Johannessburg military history museum, they also had a crashed 109 (seen next to the 190 below) that I didn't sit in, as well as a Me262. The planes could do with some restoration! On the flipside, they were very accommodating to me and let me climb all over the aircraft, including the Me262!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2014 by ARM505

[raaaid 361]

One downside, and it's a big one, to the narrow cockpit of the 109 was that it could limit the leverage the pilot could apply in the roll axes on the control stick.

 

yes but just came to mind a narrow cockpit would help to use the knees to roll

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

btw, Kurfurst is tester?! well, i think it's great for 109...

 

Yes, the devs were kind enough to offer me some consulting and testing opportunity.

[DD_bongodriver 931]

Truly a dark time for flight simulation.

[LLv34_Flanker 846]

S!

 

 Why so Bongo? He got the Finnish test reports for the Bf109G-2 to be utilized as reference/addendum. Those results very much comply with Rechlin and manufacturer data. I see nothing wrong with that. And remember Russian planes will get the best available results as well, so again nothing to worry about as far I see. I do think the devs can use the available data and information for the best of the game.

[6S.Manu 155]

Yes, it's my foot, it involved a fence and a toboggan.

Bongo, please go easy with spicy food.

 

I hope you'll never suffer of hemorrhoid. 

[Zak 3224]

Bongo, please go easy with spicy food.

I hope you'll never suffer of hemorrhoid. 

Neither Bongo nor his ration are a topic of this thread.

[III/JG52_Otto_-I- 158]

 

My favourite aircraft is the Bf 109 and to me it has always given such an impression as a true fighter due to the narrow cockpit and horizontal seating position of the pilot (almost like an F1 car). I have heard many accounts of how cramped the 109 cockpit was but my question is just how cramped and small was it really? I have seen a video on youtube with a modern day british pilot getting into a 109 cockpit and it did look very small in this video.

 

 

...Any information anyone has on this would be much appreciated.

Our virtual squadron got special permission to look inside the cockpit of Ha-1109 and HA-1112, shown in Museo del Aire, Madrid, Spain.

The entire fuselage and cockpit of Ha-11109 and Ha-1112 was built according to the standard model Bf-109G2 German, and most of Me109 in flight, are Ha-1112 "Buchon" with Daimler-Benz engine reinstalled.

I can assure you that the Me-109 Cockpit is more spacious than the Ferrari F-1 car of Fernando Alonso, (I've seen that too).and nobody says that cockpit is claustrophobic

.

 

 

I want to remind you that the seatback of the bf109, is adjustable. height / tilt 

 

 

Have you seen this video? 

 

--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k--

 

I think that displays fairly well how immensely cramped the cockpit is on the 109. 

 

 

Pilots I spoke to said that flying a P-47 was like riding in a Cadillac .... A Mustang was like a Corvette... That 109 cockpit looks claustrophobic even on the video..

 

 

And regarding the RAF pilot of that video, it's clear that he's half-silly, because in another video about cockpit of the Spitfire, he says that the cockpit is better, with the door and canopy open.

 

If he closes the door and cockpit canopy of the Spitfire, this would be the same claustrophobic, as the bf109 ... Therefore, he does not do that in the video.

Edited May 19, 2014 by III/JG52_Otto_Mas

[DD_bongodriver 931]

in the case of Paul Day he probably is already familiar with how the Spitfire feels with the canopy and door closed as he has plenty of time in them.

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

[III/JG52_Otto_-I- 158]

in the case of Paul Day he probably is already familiar with how the Spitfire feels with the canopy and door closed as he has plenty of time in them.

 

That's the reason for he forgets to close the door   

[BlitzPig_EL 1981]

I was wondering when the charts and diagrams would come out.

[DD_bongodriver 931]

I was wondering when the charts and diagrams would come out.

 

Yes, the last diagram is somewhat vague, there is no reference to actual pilot location, the Spitfire fuselage cross section is taller than the 109 from top of canopy to bottom of fuselage (blue lines).

[6S.Manu 155]

I was wondering when the charts and diagrams would come out.

 

 

You know, they are better than a pilot's opinion. Now we only need to define "small" and "cramped" with some real values and compare the results. 

Edited May 19, 2014 by 6S.Manu

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

I was wondering when the charts and diagrams would come out.

 

 

 'downthrottling'

 

   

[III/JG52_Otto_-I- 158]

I don´t understand this picture ..Red lines are bf-109 and blue lines is spitfire ..it´s that correct ?

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

Yes its a scale cross section of the Bf 109E fuselage and canopy (red) from Russian drawings a scale cross section of the Spitfire IX fuselage and (late Malcolm) canopy (also shown is the armor plates) from German reports.

Note that the early Spits did not have the 'large®' bubble style (Malcolm) canopy, but a smaller, slimmer one (equivalent to the inner Bluecircle).

 

The Spit fuselage is somewhat deeper but keep in mind that the pilot in the Spitfire sits upright, in the 109 with the legs extended with the feet being practically at the same level as the b*tt of the pilot.

 

I also suggest everyone to take a centimeter out and just see for themselves how 'much' is 64 cm is (thats the width of the 109 canopy at the bottom, the Spitfire is a few centimeters narrower), or how ca. 120 centimeter is - this latter number is roughly how much vertical space you have in the Spit, ie. the rough equivalent of the armor plate's heigh - that if the Spit had any decent protection for the pilots legs..)

 

Its easy to realize afterwards that this whole discussion is really about wheter German midgets or British midgets who felt more comfortable in the cocpit... :D

 

P.S: From what I have seen the 190 cocpit is about the same size as these two, but the P51s canopy is really one category bigger. 

[DD_bongodriver 931]

The different  angle of recline of the seats between the two is not exactly massive, the Spitfire seat is also slightly reclined.

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

No, but leg position is very different. In the 109 you basically have them almost horizontal.

[Dormouse 4]

I've sat in Red 7.  I'm 6' and a bit (184cm) and with the canopy down it felt snug.  There was not much room between my shoulders and the frame.  I found there was more space above my head than I expected but then I wasn't sitting on a parachute (the seat was the bucket type to allow the parachute to rest in it).

 

Realistically though if you had pilot clothes on, a parachute, helmet and were strapped in it would feel uncomfortable at least until you acclimatised.  It might be hard to fight but you'd sure as hell be looking everywhere to avoid the bounce.  There were after all some tall and successful Me/Bf109 pilots.  Maybe a tight fit actually helped get more of a seat of your pants experience - I can imagine a P47 pilot feeling somewhat swamped by the cockpit.

 

Hood

How far you manage to twist the head over the shoulders in this kind of slim-fit cockpits?

[DD_bongodriver 931]

No, but leg position is very different. In the 109 you basically have them almost horizontal.

 

The Spitfire didn't need to be taller for that reason, the 109 has a solid cockpit floor, the Spitfire doesn't.

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

Well these nice little models should help to clear up the confusion between the internal layout of the two.

 

[DD_bongodriver 931]

Loosely representative, if the real aircraft had skins that thick then they'd be cramped for sure.

[VO101Kurfurst 672]

I do keep wondering though why anyone would think that having no cocpit floor would be a good thing.

[DD_bongodriver 931]

it's not a good or bad thing.......but it is extra weight.

Edited May 20, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[DB605 199]

They might be little cramped but german cockpits are generally most well organized and modern pits of ww2. Some of the allied, especially british cockpits looks like they were really build in WW1.

[sallee 535]

Well these nice little models should help to clear up the confusion between the internal layout of the two.

 

Very nice.

Yours?

[DD_bongodriver 931]

They might be little cramped but german cockpits are generally most well organized and modern pits of ww2. Some of the allied, especially british cockpits looks like they were really build in WW1.

 

+1, the Allied cockpits had more character and didn't all look austere and grey.

[raaaid 361]

you would know the real size of cockpits with the virtual window concept

 

jumpt to 3:33 to understand

 

[J3-Hetzer 374]

Here's a tiny Merlin to go with the tiny cockpit:

 

 

[DD_bongodriver 931]

This is a proper tiny Merlin...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xe1LL1IC7Y