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Game version 4.501 discussion: New visibility, "Wind of Fury", 4K for P-39 and Bf-109-G6, Tanks final features

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4 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

Putting in my two cents after having an opportunity to spend a little time with the new spotting:   Great improvement and thank you!  A 4x4 furball now looks like a 4x4 furball, in the sense that you can look around while on the tail of an opponent, and see some of the other action going on, as opposed to the old scenario of looking around and wondering where everyone disappeared to, then looking back and seeing that your prey has disappeared as well. 

 

This release thus earns the highest possible accolade of "Bitchen' Stuff!!"  👍🤘:drinks:

 

 

Cheers to that! This is a wonderful improvement to the game. I was being BnZ'ed by a 190 on CB yesterday and I could keep pretty good track of where he was and counter his attacks. It feels quite realistic in that you need to put in some effort to spot bandits, but the effort pays off now.  :salute:

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27 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

Putting in my two cents after having an opportunity to spend a little time with the new spotting:   Great improvement and thank you!  A 4x4 furball now looks like a 4x4 furball, in the sense that you can look around while on the tail of an opponent, and see some of the other action going on, as opposed to the old scenario of looking around and wondering where everyone disappeared to, then looking back and seeing that your prey has disappeared as well. 

 

This release thus earns the highest possible accolade of "Bitchen' Stuff!!"  👍🤘:drinks:

 

I was initially worried it was going to be (dare I say it) too easy. But they seem to have hit the sweet spot. I still lost contact on a few planes but I could look away and re-aquire, didn't have to zoom as much, etc. The effect IMO is appropriately subtle but still very noticeable in gameplay terms.

I haven't found it any harder as an attack pilot to reach and strike targets, outcomes are the same, but I spot my enemies earlier. I was able to maneuver a bouncing 109 into the ground in my trusty Jug the other day because I saw him earlier and was able to set myself up proper for evasive maneuvers. Would have felt nicer if his buddy hadn't supplied the ol' 30mm coup de grace immediately afterwards...

If I had to put it in words, it feels like spotting is still often difficult but no longer 'unfair' at middle distances. 

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Since 4.501 it seems as if a lot of flicker has been introduced into the game? - is this how the spotting has been improved? - are there any detailed change logs of whats actually been done? (I suffer from migraines and it seems now this game is a trigger for me which is a real shame)

 

The terrain and graphics within the cockpit now seem to flicker for me, lines flicker on and off and they didnt before this update and I've got 180 odd hours on the game and its only causing me a problem now. (I havent changed any of my graphics settings)

 

Have any of the game defaults been changed?

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16 minutes ago, hal_900 said:

Since 4.501 it seems as if a lot of flicker has been introduced into the game? - is this how the spotting has been improved? - are there any detailed change logs of whats actually been done? (I suffer from migraines and it seems now this game is a trigger for me which is a real shame)

 

The terrain and graphics within the cockpit now seem to flicker for me, lines flicker on and off and they didnt before this update and I've got 180 odd hours on the game and its only causing me a problem now. (I havent changed any of my graphics settings)

 

Have any of the game defaults been changed?

These settings seem to help with flickering for some people: 

 

7 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

These are settings recommended by @LizLemon, I found them to work well. 16 means Anisotropic 16x I'd guess, which would be a preferred setting.

 

 

 

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While using binoculars I can't select "attack target" (with the little cross) or "go to point" Without using the binoculars I can. Hope that option can be added to select an specific target or waypoint while using binoculars 🧐 

 

Also when I point to other target for the gunner to shoot he keep shooting to the previous one and don't make the change to the new one. 

 

Thanks! 🤘

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5 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I was initially worried it was going to be (dare I say it) too easy. But they seem to have hit the sweet spot. I still lost contact on a few planes but I could look away and re-aquire, didn't have to zoom as much, etc. The effect IMO is appropriately subtle but still very noticeable in gameplay terms.

I haven't found it any harder as an attack pilot to reach and strike targets, outcomes are the same, but I spot my enemies earlier. I was able to maneuver a bouncing 109 into the ground in my trusty Jug the other day because I saw him earlier and was able to set myself up proper for evasive maneuvers. Would have felt nicer if his buddy hadn't supplied the ol' 30mm coup de grace immediately afterwards...

If I had to put it in words, it feels like spotting is still often difficult but no longer 'unfair' at middle distances. 

 

Glad to hear we have at least a better shot at making it difficult for the defenders!  I need to knock off some rust caused by civilian flying and get back into the MP action moving mud with the mighty Jug.  Maybe at least we'll stand a chance of spotting each other on the way to the targets!

 

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3 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

These settings seem to help with flickering for some people: 

 

 

Yes RedKestrel, it helps, but not so much like before. I used them before, and I'm using them now, and I also noticed that the shimmering got a little bit worse again (something between before/after this LOD tip). 

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Just stopping by to say I like the latest changes.

 

I had grown accustomed to cleaning specks of dust off my screen regularly, to avoid confusing said dust motes with planes. So while I didn't think increased visibility was strictly necessary, I also don't mind the change at all; and I'm sure some people absolutely love it.

 

The best part of this patch, for me, is that AI is more willing to shoot at you in turns and other maneuvers. It's just far better for immersion. Instead of missing me by miles, or not shooting at all, the AI gets uncomfortably close to hitting me now.

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Finally got some stick time in this evening after an enforced weekend off. I love the updated visibility, its so much better than before, I think you guys really nailed it. Thank you! 

 

Also thanks to whoever posted the startup file changes for improving the landscape! Got rid of all my jaggies! 

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On 9/20/2020 at 8:52 AM, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Ouf what a MESS! Lets get you to a proper starting point:


I'd recommend for Nvidia CP:

- Anisotropic off / application controlled

- gamma correction ON (Important if HDR ingame is off)

- Antialiasing mode application controlled

- Antialiasing setting off (as is application controlled)

- Negative lod bias Allow

 

Startup.cfg (Il2/data folder):

- land_anisotropy = 16

- land_tex_lods = 7

- hdr / bloom = 0 (hdr on Introduces a lot of shimmering on low angles, esp, landscape)

- post_sharpen = 1

- ssao = 0

- preset = 3 (Ultra preset - helps with color banding for example)

 

 


 

 

Hi again Jordan,

 

Wondering why Nvidia AA gamma correction is important with HDR off and how this affects our game exactly?

 

Cheers

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5 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Hi again Jordan,

 

Wondering why Nvidia AA gamma correction is important with HDR off and how this affects our game exactly?

 

Cheers

 

 

In a game about spotting (dark) dots against a (lighter) background, gamma correction should always be turned OFF.

 

When AA is applied is blurs the edges of the dot (if the dot is a single pixel, that pixel will fade slightly into the background). Gamma correction favours the lighter colours, in flight sims this usually means the "background" and not the "dot". So spotting aircraft will be harder with gamma correction ON. 

 

The best demo I've seen for this is this article:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/12

 

See how the dark wires disappear into the background? Not good if that's a one pixel plane against the sky. And, despite what you may expect, scenarios where the plane is lighter than the background are both surprisingly rare and also not helped by gamma correction (as AA generally favours the background anyway).

 

HDR Enhances the contrast of the scene, and is therefore quite handy for spotting planes (this wasn't always the case, but the new vis model seems to favour HDR being turned on - albeit with bloom turned off). 

 

To be honest, I don't understand how he can come to that conclusion. Gamma correction is iffy at best, rarely achieving its goal (which is to make small amounts of AA make a bigger difference) and leading to extremely negative effects in flight sims.

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Great update

100 times better visibility . 

Than you .

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3 hours ago, peregrine7 said:

 

To be honest, I don't understand how he can come to that conclusion. Gamma correction is iffy at best, rarely achieving its goal (which is to make small amounts of AA make a bigger difference) and leading to extremely negative effects in flight sims.

 

Testing and consecutively comparing the results led me to that conclusion. 

In fact with the pre 4.501 I used gamma correction off as I found it more applicable.

 

I do not claim to be correct in any case, but there are a lot of variables that come into play with spotting and visual clarity, which make a clear statement on such settings hard to make.

 

I can just say that with these setting I do spot enemy planes most of the time before they spot me.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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47 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Testing and consecutively comparing the results led me to that conclusion. 

In fact with the pre 4.501 I used gamma correction off as I found it more applicable.

 

I do not claim to be correct in any case, but there are a lot of variables that come into play with spotting and visual clarity, which make a clear statement on such settings hard to make.

 

I can just say that with these setting I do spot enemy planes most of the time before they spot me.

 

That's absolutely fair. While I don't understand how it could be better, if it works for you (from experimentation) that means more than theory.

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I have been testing extensively and it looks like its a jack of all trades, sometimes works sometimes won't, this is more a game engine problem that I doubt it can be fixed without a really redesign or change it competly, the situation improved yes, but not in all cases work. Messing arround with settings improved the situation, but I dislike that some users do that to take advantage of other players, if the situation is not the same for all looks like it can't be fixed.

Edited by SJ_Butcher
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17 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

These settings seem to help with flickering for some people: 

 

 

Thanks for linking that, I'll check it out.

 

I've had mine set on FXAA 4 since the start pretty much, what I'm noticing now is previously pretty much everything was alright given my settings, now even on the 'home screen' where you have the camera spinning round the plane in the hanger, everything that is straight / should be straight flickers and is jagged. The plane itself in the hanger looks 'shimmery' as well.

 

Was something done to the colour depth as well, I used to have banding in the sky, now I dont see banding so doesnt that mean some dithering (flicker pixels different colours very fast to trick you into seeing another colour) is going on? - (after edit, 'older' maps - Moscow still seem to show banding, which is what I want - less flicker)

 

Look at the railings on the walkway in the hanger, they're not straight lines anymore they flicker and are jagged, I see similar elsewhere in cockpits and on terrain.

 

Edit, trying to sort out being able to upload a video but w10 is fighting me....

 

Also, the AI are much more ruthless now, I'm getting annihilated in career mode much more frequently.

Edited by hal_900
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One thing I noticed with the new Spit IX skin was that the tires have small bits missing, also the exhaust nozzles have areas see-through. Minor points but just thought I'd mention!

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6 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

I have been testing extensively and it looks like its a jack of all trades, sometimes works sometimes won't, this is more a game engine problem that I doubt it can be fixed without a really redesign or change it competly, the situation improved yes, but not in all cases work. Messing arround with settings improved the situation, but I dislike that some users do that to take advantage of other players, if the situation is not the same for all looks like it can't be fixed.

 

So if I understand you correctly, you think the application should be "fixed" somehow so that spotting aircraft from far far away works makes them identically visible for all people regardless of how they've configured or misconfigured their systems?  That would be a.... unique perspective.

 

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4 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

 

So if I understand you correctly, you think the application should be "fixed" somehow so that spotting aircraft from far far away works makes them identically visible for all people regardless of how they've configured or misconfigured their systems?  That would be a.... unique perspective.

 

 

Who said I was speaking about long distance? and you are wrong there, people change their settings to make the game look uglier online to spot, reducing gamma, change lod on config files for terrain, use reshade with many stupid filters. If the software is good enough, then why people do that? my team mates changed lot of settings just to spot more, thats unfair advantage and its terrible for online gaming. Changing resolution affect how the contact is rendered, there is no scale on that.

Edited by SJ_Butcher
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2 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 If the software is good enough, then why people do that? 

 

Um, because it's human nature that there will always be people that will look for an advantage now matter how slight?

 

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1 minute ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Who said I was speaking about long distance? and you are wrong there, people change their settings to make the game look uglier online to spot, reducing gamma, change lod on config files for terrain, use reshade with many stupid filters. If the software is good enough, then why people do that? my team mates changed lot of settings just to spot more, thats unfair advantage and its terrible for online gaming. Changing resolution affect how the contact is rendered, there is no scale on that.

How would you make a realistic spotting environment that can't be altered by modifying the way your display shows the game?

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22 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

How would you make a realistic spotting environment that can't be altered by modifying the way your display shows the game?

 

banning reshade, encripting the configs files, measure the pixel density on the screen, at least restrict what users can do on software, they will just have the screen option which is limited

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6 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

banning reshade...

 

 

NTShA.jpg

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4 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

measure the pixel density on the screen

 

That's impossible. Applications cannot determine the physical pixel density of a monitor.

 

7 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

encripting the configs files

 

Not going to happen. The plaintext startup.cfg files exist for a reason.

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2 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

That's impossible. Applications cannot determine the physical pixel density of a monitor.

 

 

Not going to happen. The plaintext startup.cfg files exist for a reason.

 

Knowing the monitor you could know that. That's easily exposed on the OS.

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Just now, Stoopy said:

 

 

NTShA.jpg

That's already done on any server that cares to do it anyway. Only one I know of that allows 'injectors' at all is Combat Box so that the game is more playable with certain VR headsets that need the migoto zoom method to function. 

None of the tweaking stuff is really necessary now. People can tweak to their heart's content for marginal advantage but just playing vanilla 1440p I don't feel like other people are seeing me while I'm blind. 

I think everyone should just set all their display settings, tweaks, etc. to neutral. Turn off all the eldritch stuff you've done to Nvidia control panel, set your gamma to a more reasonable setting, and just fly the game like a normal person instead of some kind of uber-grognard looking for 1% advantages over other players. Give it a few weeks.

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47 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Who said I was speaking about long distance? and you are wrong there, people change their settings to make the game look uglier online to spot, reducing gamma, change lod on config files for terrain, use reshade with many stupid filters. If the software is good enough, then why people do that? my team mates changed lot of settings just to spot more, thats unfair advantage and its terrible for online gaming. Changing resolution affect how the contact is rendered, there is no scale on that.

 

Unfair advantage you say? Well, then what about users with eye problems (colourblindness, bad sight). And I can continue and tell you, I find it unfair that some of the guys

can afford the newest GPU and newest monitors/VR headset and I can not?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, THERION said:

 

Unfair advantage you say? Well, then what about users with eye problems (colourblindness, bad sight).

 

 

Conversely, what about users with new reading glasses, contact lenses or (gasp!) Windex?  Can we ban Windex and those microfiber monitor cleaning wipe "cheats"???

 

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the reason why Reshade keeps coming up is because it's a tool that allows for "visual hacking". It doesn't meant that everyone is doing it, but the tool exists and it can be abused. Examples of reshade manipulation that can be used in the game (the ones that I have personally seen):

 

- remove clouds, or modify its shader to be pretty much transparent

- external airplane shader can be configured to block the sun, so if you're chasing some in to the sun they are still perfectly visible to you

- spotting trick as for high contrast for moving objects

 

3dmigoto mod for VR zoom was based on shaders. It's been banned completely due to shader manipulation (object shader zoom at x10), etc. etc..

 

The devs did an awesome job to include the shader injection filter in server settings to appease the populus.

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Good job with the visibility update! I don’t think there’s much to adjust anymore. Visibility is improved, but it’s still possible to lose sight too.

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On my end, all I can say is that on some maps/lighting/weather conditions, spotting is a tad better, were on other it's (practically) the way it was...  I am blind as a bat. I wasn't able to find a coherent pattern to the problem (manifestation), culprit or even a "magic" setting(s)/tweak(s) to solve my spotting problems.

 

@4K the game is visually beautiful and well optimized but unfortunately, and for some reason, the spotting continue to be a huge problem on my system.

 

~S~

 

PS: I have tried all settings imaginable (e.g. on, off, default, custom on both game and NVIDIA CP with no avail... it's just the way it is and I have to deal with it.


 

 

 

 

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OK, after a few hours of stick time, I'm going to have to go against the trend and say that we've maybe gone too far.  Caveat: I'm playing single player campaigns at the moment, with icons and padlock until I get my track IR (or equivalent).  Luckily, today is my birthday, so that will be coming shortly.

As it stands now, contacts are far too easily seen and identified from a long distance.  On bomber escort missions, I'm picking out enemy flights from more than 20km away.  Before it was hazy grey dots, and now it's sharp black dots.  So sharp that I can easily identify a flight of 6 HE-111 bombers with 4 BF-109 escorts above.  This is well before icons come into play.  Also, medium range contacts (2-6km) seem abnormally large in full field view, making aircraft appear much closer than they actually are.

First impressions... again.

Aside from that, the enemy AI is now far more aggressive, which surprised me on mission one!  Will take some getting used to.  Also, friendly AI seems to be doing better, not least in the Po-2 missions, where there is a much more coordinated attack from different directions, so chapeau!

 

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Many thanks Devs !

 

Finally, haze (adjustable) makes astonishing improvement to landscape look from sky :clapping:

 

I tried a few QM dogfights and enemy fighters seem to be more aggressive when I lose energy/speed... In a SP I have to check my six o'clock regularly.

 

:good:

Well done devs...  

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1 hour ago, Noisemaker said:
Spoiler

OK, after a few hours of stick time, I'm going to have to go against the trend and say that we've maybe gone too far.  Caveat: I'm playing single player campaigns at the moment, with icons and padlock until I get my track IR (or equivalent).  Luckily, today is my birthday, so that will be coming shortly.

As it stands now, contacts are far too easily seen and identified from a long distance.  On bomber escort missions, I'm picking out enemy flights from more than 20km away.  Before it was hazy grey dots, and now it's sharp black dots.  So sharp that I can easily identify a flight of 6 HE-111 bombers with 4 BF-109 escorts above.  This is well before icons come into play.  Also, medium range contacts (2-6km) seem abnormally large in full field view, making aircraft appear much closer than they actually are.

First impressions... again.

Aside from that, the enemy AI is now far more aggressive, which surprised me on mission one!  Will take some getting used to.  Also, friendly AI seems to be doing better, not least in the Po-2 missions, where there is a much more coordinated attack from different directions, so chapeau!

 

 

Did u turn off alt spotting ? That makes it even more visible, (I think too visible, see patch note 4 below) we are no longer running alt spotting on our server anymore because of improved spotting makes it not required.

 

Plane are still going to blend, depending on lighting , but there is a big difference to before the patch. Its very noticable, but you still have to learn how to spot...

 

This is what I found (and it matches what I later read in patch notes)

 

image.thumb.png.3469b3367556d0b93fc8ed6d510c1a5c.png
 

(relevant patch notes 4.501)
 

Quote

3. The long-range LODs scaling system for aircraft has been adjusted. Aircraft spotting at short to medium distances, especially when using wide camera angles(IE FOV), is greatly improved. The visibility at distance has been adjusted to be closer to reality.
4. Alternate Visibility has been renamed Enhanced Visibility: this mode gives a much greater increase in aircraft visibility at long ranges compared to the new standard visibility. At medium ranges, visibility is also significantly improved compared to the old Alternate Visibility option;
5. MSAA x8 option has been added, but please note that this level of AA is very demanding to the graphics card performance;
9. Distant levels of detail (LODs) of the aircraft now have the same surface material setting as closer and more detailed LODs, making the lighting of distant aircraft much more realistic and enabling reflections and glints when the relative position of a contact, an observer and the light source(s) is right;



Full size images from ^^

Spoiler

 




1924139848_IL-2SturmovikBattleofStalingrad.thumb.jpg.2524ab1b1f5c236c6b2a8a94c918dc04.jpg

 

1993631658_IL-2SturmovikBattleofStalingrad_dark.thumb.jpg.8c553922c7825a4b9523489af5326991.jpg

 

BF109_closer.thumb.jpg.c61a76b5320afb7ba1adac0f799fc538.jpg

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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44 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

As it stands now, contacts are far too easily seen and identified from a long distance.  On bomber escort missions, I'm picking out enemy flights from more than 20km away.  Before it was hazy grey dots, and now it's sharp black dots.  So sharp that I can easily identify a flight of 6 HE-111 bombers with 4 BF-109 escorts above.  This is well before icons come into play.  Also, medium range contacts (2-6km) seem abnormally large in full field view, making aircraft appear much closer than they actually are.

 

Checked the Enhanced visibility is off? Also sounds like you have it on.

 

Spotting depends on various factors. In ideal conditions you can see long range contacts. And in others, closer targets are hard to spot under the right angle and light reflection. Been checking few of my recordings from flight of the past few nights and there were instances where I couldn't spot a flight of friendly P-38s right below me. Until they changed direction or flew over a different patch of ground where they became much more visible.

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new spottig feels just right! u can actually see contacts but its not too easy. great job devs!

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3 hours ago, JG27_M-C said:

On my end, all I can say is that on some maps/lighting/weather conditions, spotting is a tad better, were on other it's (practically) the way it was...  I am blind as a bat. I wasn't able to find a coherent pattern to the problem (manifestation), culprit or even a "magic" setting(s)/tweak(s) to solve my spotting problems.

 

@4K the game is visually beautiful and well optimized but unfortunately, and for some reason, the spotting continue to be a huge problem on my system.

 

~S~

 

PS: I have tried all settings imaginable (e.g. on, off, default, custom on both game and NVIDIA CP with no avail... it's just the way it is and I have to deal with it.


 

 

 

 

Get away from the 4 K tv and get a 4 K monitor, Most TVs process the image and use downscaling to play games at a decent frame rate.

You can see this for yourself when looking at the active signal resolution in display settings in windows.

you will have the desktop resolution, lets say 3840 x 2160 

and you will have the active signal resolution 2560 x 1440 or maybe even lower

when they differ, you tv is having to process the image, which will at most times lower the picture quality

 

to play at a decent frame rate at 3840X 2160 your Tv will most likely be at a signal resolution far lower 

The TV i had was a 4 K sony 55" Class Q90T Series QLED 4K UHD Smart 

Fantastic TV to watch TV on, but would downscale when in game mode at 120htz

in game the image would have very little depth of field which made spotting difficult

I ended up having to play at 1920x 1080 to be able to see on a 55 inch screen! 

 

I replaced it with a asus rog PG43UQ, even the smallest dot are visible now

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3 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

Did u turn off alt spotting ? That makes it even more visible, (I think too visible, see patch note 4 below) we are no longer running alt spotting on our server anymore because of improved spotting makes it not required.

 

Plane are still going to blend, depending on lighting , but there is a big difference to before the patch. Its very noticable, but you still have to learn how to spot...

 

This is what I found (and it matches what I later read in patch notes)

 

image.thumb.png.3469b3367556d0b93fc8ed6d510c1a5c.png
 

(relevant patch notes 4.501)
 



Full size images from ^^

  Hide contents

 




1924139848_IL-2SturmovikBattleofStalingrad.thumb.jpg.2524ab1b1f5c236c6b2a8a94c918dc04.jpg

 

1993631658_IL-2SturmovikBattleofStalingrad_dark.thumb.jpg.8c553922c7825a4b9523489af5326991.jpg

 

BF109_closer.thumb.jpg.c61a76b5320afb7ba1adac0f799fc538.jpg

 

 

 

Why your game looks like that? Mine look with washed colors on a perfectly calibrated monitor (IPs) could you please share your settings? startup.cfg, are you using reshade?

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