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How can we get more people interested?


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1 hour ago, tiger_0988 said:

 

Youtube is your friend. Even though I have a flight sim past and an aviation buff and understand the strengths and weaknesses of most of the planes and basic understanding to how to fight them, I still go to youtube and watch videos that describe the various aircraft in detail.

 

 

It is indeed a useful tool, even more useful if it supplemented in game tutorials and cheat sheets.  I'm sure it's doable, and most of the players in this community have gone though it but I wonder how many players have been put off by the lack of in game support.  So if I was looking to at the question of how to get more people interested, I'd expand the question to 'how do we get more people interested, and keep that interest?'.

 

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13 minutes ago, Kinjin said:

 

It is indeed a useful tool, even more useful if it supplemented in game tutorials and cheat sheets.  I'm sure it's doable, and most of the players in this community have gone though it but I wonder how many players have been put off by the lack of in game support.  So if I was looking to at the question of how to get more people interested, I'd expand the question to 'how do we get more people interested, and keep that interest?'.

 

What exactly should be in the basic tutorial? How to setup your HOTAS if you have one? The basics of flight? Basics of air combat? I agree there is a lack of basic hand holding. It may have something to do the the subject. Air combat is a pretty complex subject and I've found that most who actually go through the trouble and expense of buying a more sophisticated air combat sim have interest in the subject. Its not really a genre like a RTS where you can play a few tutorial mission and then start blowing up things en masse.

 

There are games like War Thunder(something I've never played) that have tons of aircraft that I presume you can jump into fairly quickly and start shooting down aircraft or Ace Combat, but that's not really the target audience of a product like IL2.

 

I don't think there is an easy answer to your question. Perhaps the solution is for a movie like Top Gun 2 to have the same mass appeals as the original and entice a new generation to want to become fighter pilots...

 

Another possible solution is for the developers of IL2 to put out a series of basic tutorials that explain the game. Many developers of highly complex games like Imperator  Rome have put out a series of video tutorials.

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37 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

... I agree there is a lack of basic hand holding....

 

Rather than view it as "hand holding", I think of it as more getting your customers up to speed quickly so that they can enjoy your product.  Whether that's in game missions, or a link to a series of videos tutorials, I'd leave that to them but it wouldn't hurt if they were looking at gaining new players.
 

37 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

Air combat is a pretty complex subject and I've found that most who actually go through the trouble and expense of buying a more sophisticated air combat sim have interest in the subject. Its not really a genre like a RTS where you can play a few tutorial mission and then start blowing up things en masse.

 

There are games like War Thunder(something I've never played) that have tons of aircraft that I presume you can jump into fairly quickly and start shooting down aircraft or Ace Combat, but that's not really the target audience of a product like IL2.

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting it isn't a complex game, which is another reason to help people get into it.  I also suspect the target audience is shared to a degree with games like DCS and MS2020 which do have some in game tutorials.  The latter of those has generated a lot of attention, which could lead to more people seeing what other flight sims are around.

 

37 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

I don't think there is an easy answer to your question.

 

And a small point of clarification, it was the subject of the thread, not my question.  I just thought the OP might appreciate the thoughts of someone who's thinking of getting into the game. 

 

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There is no amount of “hand holding” or tutorials that will increase the number of people who play this game.  You either want to do this or you don’t.  If you want to do it and you can’t figure it out on your own, then you’ll go on the internet to get help or you’ll join a squadron and get training from them.  Training videos exist.  They’re not tough to find.  There is no reason for the devs to integrate them into the game.


By the way, the overwhelming majority of people who play this, and any other fight sim, don’t play MP and they don’t play SP campaigns.  They just go into a quick mission and shoot down a few planes or blow up a few ground targets.  That’s it.   How would you even know if more of them bought the game?

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5 hours ago, tiger_0988 said:

What exactly should be in the basic tutorial? How to setup your HOTAS if you have one? The basics of flight? Basics of air combat? I agree there is a lack of basic hand holding. It may have something to do the the subject. Air combat is a pretty complex subject and I've found that most who actually go through the trouble and expense of buying a more sophisticated air combat sim have interest in the subject. Its not really a genre like a RTS where you can play a few tutorial mission and then start blowing up things en masse.

The DCS WWII modules and rise of flight both had decent tutorials - How do I start, land, navigate, shoot down things, deliver bombs on target and so on...

Of course you can teach how to fight!

 

5 hours ago, tiger_0988 said:

Another possible solution is for the developers of IL2 to put out a series of basic tutorials that explain the game. Many developers of highly complex games like Imperator  Rome have put out a series of video tutorials.

Yes you are right - there are other companies that also fail to do proper tutorials. Paradox is one example - their "tutorial" for hearts of iron IV utterly fails...

Having to search the internet for help to learn the basics of a game is not good. Being linked from inside the game to videos that still mean your closing the game to watch stuff is only a little better. Yes it is doable - but it isn't good design. Watching and hearing is nice - but people learn best by doing.

 

MSFS2020 seems to have great tutorials. Maybe this will lead to many new virtual pilots who undertsand principles of flying already and who start looking for action in the air and could better live without tutorials. That could be a good thing for IL2 :)

 

I guess aggressive marketing in the next months would be a good idea

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7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:


By the way, the overwhelming majority of people who play this, and any other fight sim, don’t play MP and they don’t play SP campaigns.  They just go into a quick mission and shoot down a few planes or blow up a few ground targets.  That’s it.   How would you even know if more of them bought the game?

 

At this point you are absolutely right according to an interview blog with DSC guys, somewhere on the web. Also the duration of gameplay  appr. 20minutes. That also did surprises me, because if reading here the mp must be the most important factor. 

 

I’m still trying to find an very old written interview with Jason but in this perspective very interesting, he explains that the old days of the campaign mode is no more. Thats also very interesting reading from Jasons POV.  

 

Another point: If I’m looking at my sons, these young Xbox guys want to play “out of the box” and do not like fiddling al kinds of secret adjustments with the use of notepad. This aspect is still being neglected by the devs, who are still thinking that new winter uniforms for Russian pilots or raising the Moscow map 50m after 5y, are very important to burn lots of labour on. The devs should be more focusing on major game aspects, not the minor “nice to have things” and get inspiration by the new benchmark in flysims: MS2020.  

 

 

 

Edited by Dutch2
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3 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

The devs should be more focusing on major game aspects, not the minor “nice to have things” and get inspiration by the new benchmark in flysims: MS2020.  

To be fair, after some good flying in FS20 (MS2020... MS should REALLY find an acronym...), I started IL2 again and I was impressed again hiw nice it still looks and the performance I get for that look. 

 

Also, installing FS20 from the store is a greater act of self hurt. Most badic questions of what is really installed where is a mistery, and you find out about the specifics once your rig takes this 130 GB dump. Adjusting controls is also a pain in itself. But true, the sim runs with suggested settings on my end, whereas getting FSX/P3D/XP to run nicely and beautifully is a game within the game, testing your frustration level constantly.

 

BoX runs nicely as it comes and takes little setting up the controls. DCS probably has the best interface for that, but still. It works.

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17 hours ago, tiger_0988 said:

There are games like War Thunder(something I've never played) that have tons of aircraft that I presume you can jump into fairly quickly and start shooting down aircraft or Ace Combat, but that's not really the target audience of a product like IL2.

Thinking about it - it could be without degrading. 
 

I recently learned that Northern Europeans have problems communicating with Americans due to different mindsets: We concentrate on what isn’t working because that is were stuff can be improved - Americans seem to concentrate on what is working well because... Motivation? Inspiration? I don’t know...

 

Nevertheless there are many things that are great for beginners in this sim as well. And these coincide in many ways whith what is great in warthunder for beginners:

- a great menu that is easily understood (much better then CLOD or even WT!)

- very flexible realism settings 

- a very flexible qmb that let’s you try stuff easily 

- possibility of flying career without start or landing

(- mouse control)

I put that last thing in brackets because it actually doesn’t work very well in box. And that’s a pitty! WT uses an „instructor“ that translates mouse movements into flight control manipulation. BoX tries the same but it doesn’t work half as well. Good mouse control is great if fighting interests you more than flying. I learned the basics of air combat (sa, energy management, leading a target, maneuvering in 3 dimensions) in WT without having to learn to fly first. When I was hooked I wanted the whole package and switched to BoX - but it would be easier to convince friends of trying BoX if they could enjoy the game without having to buy some periphery beforehand. 

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I go to youtube and type in IL2 tutorials and IL2 BOS tutorials and come up with a ton of stuff. Anything the devs put out would be redundant in most of the cases. There is plenty already on youtube that gives insight into the game.

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No pandering to the cheating millennial's. Let them have gta5. The trouble they cause is not worth bringing them here. They destroy multi-player with scripts. Banning them only slows them down. Don't ruin this game. There are plenty of other easy-mode games on the market. Let them go there. 

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1 hour ago, newbravado said:

No pandering to the cheating millennial's. Let them have gta5. The trouble they cause is not worth bringing them here. They destroy multi-player with scripts. Banning them only slows them down. Don't ruin this game. There are plenty of other easy-mode games on the market. Let them go there. 

Seriously... This is such a ridiculous comment. In order to be more popular this game needs to be more polished, has nothing to do with millennials rather playing GTA. See the thread on visibility in the main forum for a good example of not-polish.

 

Brainless millennial bashing just fouls up the interesting discussion being had.

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On 8/23/2020 at 2:39 PM, CountZero said:

 

do same for GB 😄 "send" free stuff for promo,

its simulator how can she say its so mutch fun, cccc thats for sure gona scare of hard core simers away, another WT clone it seams

 

 

If by "hardcore simers" you mean life long virgins living in their mothers basement who still think girls have "cooties" then yeah... I guess your right...

 

For the rest of world, this is exactly the type of thing to do to promo your product.  That video has been up less than a full week and already has over 430,000 views, if even only 1% of those viewers pick up FS2020 or a Thrustmaster product because they watched a video of her stumbling through trying to figure it out... its a win for those companies. 

 

IL-2 (or any other sim for that matter) could only hope to have that type of exposure to new potential customers someday...

On 8/23/2020 at 5:17 PM, tiger_0988 said:

 

I’ve flown 2 missions so far and have yet to get a kill in SP.
 

I wouldn’t last very long online....

 

 

Beware of the Hun in the sun (or this case since your flying as Luftwaffe currently, Tommies, Russkies or Yanks 😂)

 

Edited by DBFlyguy
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1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

 

If by "hardcore simers" you mean life long virgins living in their mothers basement who still think girls have "cooties" then yeah... I guess your right...

 

For the rest of world, this is exactly the type of thing to do to promo your product.  That video has been up less than a full week and already has over 430,000 views, if even only 1% of those viewers pick up FS2020 or a Thrustmaster product because they watched a video of her stumbling through trying to figure it out... its a win for those companies. 

 

IL-2 (or any other sim for that matter) could only hope to have that type of exposure to new potential customers someday...

 

Beware of the Hun in the sun (or this case since your flying as Luftwaffe currently, Tommies, Russkies or Yanks 😂)

 

Battle of Britain? Robert Shaw? Loved that movie. Would love to see a remake if they didn’t mess it up.

 

I poked my head into the multiplayer section in the IL2 BOS menus and saw only 3 entries. 2 were locked and other had 0 ppl and a pretty high ping lag.

 

Im currently playing the Huns, but also love the other stuff. I have all the planes and modules. Just found out the P-47 has career mode enabled in Normandy. The Jug is one of my fav planes.

 

Also have to try out the quick mission app above. Also saw the other post about downloadable user mission and scripted campaigns 

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21 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

Battle of Britain? Robert Shaw? Loved that movie. Would love to see a remake if they didn’t mess it up.

 

I poked my head into the multiplayer section in the IL2 BOS menus and saw only 3 entries. 2 were locked and other had 0 ppl and a pretty high ping lag.

 

Im currently playing the Huns, but also love the other stuff. I have all the planes and modules. Just found out the P-47 has career mode enabled in Normandy. The Jug is one of my fav planes.

 

Also have to try out the quick mission app above. Also saw the other post about downloadable user mission and scripted campaigns 

 

You should be able to see more servers in multiplayer, do you have mods enabled if yes then you can only see and join servers that alow mods, or maybe you check coop section insted dogfight. This time there should be 2-3 servers with around 50players and few others with less.

 

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48 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

You should be able to see more servers in multiplayer, do you have mods enabled if yes then you can only see and join servers that alow mods, or maybe you check coop section insted dogfight. This time there should be 2-3 servers with around 50players and few others with less.

 

Ah that's it. I have mods enabled. When I'm feeling like being abused I'll drop in. I'm sure there are plenty of people with hundreds if not thousands of hour flying about. I need the training wheels server.

 

Do you start in the air or do you also have to take off and land?

 

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47 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

Ah that's it. I have mods enabled. When I'm feeling like being abused I'll drop in. I'm sure there are plenty of people with hundreds if not thousands of hour flying about. I need the training wheels server.

 

Do you start in the air or do you also have to take off and land?

 

On most servers they have airplane starting on parking spots with engines off, sometimes you get airstarts on some bases ( its usealy indicated in briefing for mission ). For new player i would try all servers i see ppl on, and see what they offer, it takes time to fuiger out whats going on so arm your self with patiance and dont be scare to get shot down while trying to get some action, if server is with some objectives, check closest frendly objective to your base and go cap, that should get you in some action to test it out. Some servers can have AI flights spawning on low numbers.

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On 8/23/2020 at 1:33 PM, Eisenfaustus said:

But having to close the game disappointedly and start searching the web for help isn't the same as a decent in game tutorial - is it? ^^

 

 

I don't remember in-game tutorials for most flight sims...I remember books that you had to study, or pause the sim to reference.

The YouTube videos make things so much easier, and putting resources into creating in-game tutorials on the Dev's end simply would not pencil out.

 

Study one aircraft at a time, watch a video, take some notes. :)

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23 minutes ago, CountZero said:

On most servers they have airplane starting on parking spots with engines off, sometimes you get airstarts on some bases ( its usealy indicated in briefing for mission ). For new player i would try all servers i see ppl on, and see what they offer, it takes time to fuiger out whats going on so arm your self with patiance and dont be scare to get shot down while trying to get some action, if server is with some objectives, check closest frendly objective to your base and go cap, that should get you in some action to test it out. Some servers can have AI flights spawning on low numbers.

Thanks! I was able to jump onto a server. Just flew around. Then jumped on another one and clicked on bot figuring it would be something that spawns AI planes to shoot down. 
 

Was fun shot down 3 P-47s before I had to stop. 
 

This looks like fun. Yeah getting shot down is part of the learning process. When I first got my Xbox earlier this year and started playing Madden 20 online I was getting beat 84-0 or there abouts at first. Now it’s a different story.

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4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I don't remember in-game tutorials for most flight sims...I remember books that you had to study, or pause the sim to reference.

Yub - that's how it was done "back then" - but in those times most games lacked proper ingame tutorials video gaming as a whole was more niche then it's now.

Today successfull games have tutorials explaining their gameplay mechanics. (Not all are good - most are though)

So when you want to attract new customers - who are not combat flight sim veterans already - as most of those will propably already have some iteration of GB - then you have to compete with other video games - not just dcs.

And btw: DCS, MSFS2020, warthunder and RoF have ingame tutorials

 

4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

creating in-game tutorials on the Dev's end simply would not pencil out

Why do you think that?

 

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