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Nvidia teases a 21 day countdown to unveil or release of the RTX 3000

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2 minutes ago, Bernard_IV said:

Are there any games that use more than 10gb vram?

 

The difficulty is that end-user tools only measure the VRAM that's been requested by the game, not the amount actually in use. So CoD might be requesting 9GB but we don't know how much is actually being actively used by the game engine. You'd need to use dev tools to find the actual amount in use.

 

Hardware Unboxed found that Doom (er, whichever the newest one is) on ultra-crazy textures was running quite a lot slower on the 8GB 2080, when they took the textures down to merely ultra (instead of ultra-mega-something) it sped up considerably. So Doom on stupid high settings is using more than 8GB when running at 4K resolution. NVidia seem pretty confident that their 10GB is good enough, though, and they have the inside line to game developers.

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38 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

[...]

 

FS2020 looks like a bit of a badly optimized garbage engine. There's a serious CPU limitation it looks like, you have to drive overall framerate down below 50 FPS to avoid a CPU bottleneck. Gamers Nexus showed a few figures but basically said "this isn't a great benchmark right now".

 

I'd be careful of assuming that without knowing the number of polygons and CPU specific calculations being performed. Recall, the big hammers are New York City, and aircraft avionics, we don't know the relative difference in complexity between the aerodynamic models, and the weather model is significantly more complex than what I've ever seen before. 

 

Without being able to compare the complexity between competitors, all we can say for certain is it is very single thread performance bound, and it hits CPU hardware harder than other flights sims, but it is much harder to compare the relatives optimization of the engine. 

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7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

The difficulty is that end-user tools only measure the VRAM that's been requested by the game, not the amount actually in use. So CoD might be requesting 9GB but we don't know how much is actually being actively used by the game engine. You'd need to use dev tools to find the actual amount in use.

 

Hardware Unboxed found that Doom (er, whichever the newest one is) on ultra-crazy textures was running quite a lot slower on the 8GB 2080, when they took the textures down to merely ultra (instead of ultra-mega-something) it sped up considerably. So Doom on stupid high settings is using more than 8GB when running at 4K resolution. NVidia seem pretty confident that their 10GB is good enough, though, and they have the inside line to game developers.

  The 10 GB was a marketing trick, not a decission based on trends in the industry. The gaming developers were waiting for new generation cards, with more memory, so they can allow the games to use more. 

 Nvidia purpousfully  crippled the 3080, to make it as cheap as they can and to trick anyone who wants to future proof their computer, to buy their 3090.

They know AMD's cards will come with 12GB for the mainstream and 16GB for their high end.

Nvidia has a 3080ti/super with 20GB of memory waiting for the final tweaks after they know exactly what AMD can do. 

Untill then, they hope to milk as many 3090 sales as possible.

 Think about it. If Nvidia is so confident 10GB is enough for high end gaming, why did they put 24GB on the 3090?

 I'm not interested in a card with less memory than what i've had since early 2017.

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The 3080 is listed at Newegg Canada  at $999. One model at $949. Not available yet though.

 

Some 2080ti cards are listed at over $2000.  Yeah... right.  :rolleyes:

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16 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

The 3080 is listed at Newegg Canada  at $999

That's a decent price. If it came with 14-20 GB of ram i would have preordered. 

 

BTW. If you plan to buy one of this 3080 or 3090 cards, make sure you have enough power supply for it. This are really power hungry cards. All reviewers notice the TDP of the 3080 at over 330W. 

Tom's hardware has an article about the new power supply requirenments with this cards. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidias-rtx-3000-power-supply-requirements-PSU-shortage-2020

 

It gets crazy. 

 

20200916_204828.jpg

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7 hours ago, Bernard_IV said:

Are there any games that use more than 10gb vram?

 

As example depending always on what games you play

Captureaaaaq.JPG.36a46ecfaab4d6ce5519679f64a17a79.JPG

Edited by Livai

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1 hour ago, FlyingNutcase said:

I thought there would be feedback/reviews of the 3080 by now but it seems very quiet. Anyone?

Several reviews on-line that have been linked in this forum. 

 

As far as I am aware they will not be available to order until late tonight and only in very restricted numbers.

 

I have a 2080 Ti GPU and combined with a power supply that is not recommended for the 3080 at only 650 watts find it too expensive to justify a less than 25% performance advantage only at 4K.  Not sure how my case would manage the extra heat as well.

 

I am, personally, a bit underwhelmed by the 3080 but for someone with a lower spec Nvidia  or AMD GPU may have good justification for an upgrade.

If you are not intending to run 4K or high res VR the RTX 3080 does not seem to offer much over the 2080 Ti

 

Obviously, I am going to have to make some significant "eye candy" compromises when my HP G2 VR headset finally/ eventually arrives.

Edited by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
Typo

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27 minutes ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

find it too expensive to justify a less than 25% performance advantage only at 4K.

My personal(!) guess is that you might also just kill your (older) PSU if you upgrade to the 3080/3090.

If you have a  2080 Ti with 11GB of VRAM it will surely be more than enough for almost any non-VR game/sim, even in 4K (except with ultra settings and +60FPS). 

For VR and the latest titles with a.o. the new VR Reverb G2 ... I think not even the 3090 will be enough to maintain 60-90 FPS (surely not in DCS) !

I have a very slow system and for me it is of course very clear I desperately need a new system with a insane powerfull 'special' 3080/3090 PSU of *at least 850W* (and who knows what the 4090 will require :-))

The 2080 Ti was an incredibly fast GPU and ... IMHO ... it still is, a 3090 can't change that !

I, personally, would not 'upgrade' from the 2080 TI to 3080 (it is a downgrade in VRAM!).

However, if you could sell your entire system at a good price ... who knows and, later, get the 3090 ... Ti ? 

Edited by simfan2015

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8 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

That's a decent price. If it came with 14-20 GB of ram i would have preordered. 

 

BTW. If you plan to buy one of this 3080 or 3090 cards, make sure you have enough power supply for it. This are really power hungry cards. All reviewers notice the TDP of the 3080 at over 330W. 

Tom's hardware has an article about the new power supply requirenments with this cards. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidias-rtx-3000-power-supply-requirements-PSU-shortage-2020

 

It gets crazy. 

 

20200916_204828.jpg

 

Hoping my 1000w Titanium EVGA power supply will be enough for my rig and a 3090 card.

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Well geeze, those went fast. I had it in my cart on Newegg, proceeded to checkout, and bam, it was gone. 

Edited by LukeFF

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12 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

 Think about it. If Nvidia is so confident 10GB is enough for high end gaming, why did they put 24GB on the 3090?

 I'm not interested in a card with less memory than what i've had since early 2017.

 

The 3090 is a cut-down Titan that NVidia can sell to people who have money to burn on the absolute best card, it's not a mainstream gaming card. I don't think your argument holds water.

 

5 hours ago, Livai said:

 

As example depending always on what games you play

Captureaaaaq.JPG.36a46ecfaab4d6ce5519679f64a17a79.JPG

 

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is the amount of VRAM requested and allocated by the game, not the amount actually in use. These are useless figures.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think NVidia has made an odd decision with the 10GB of VRAM, but trying to say that it's crippled because of the lack of VRAM is just a bunch of people on the internet with way less information than NVidia themselves creating drama and conspiracy theories.

 

In the end, people can make their own decisions. Maybe everyone will buy the AMD cards with 12 / 16 / 20 GB. I guess the next Steam hardware survey will tell us.

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5 hours ago, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

iL 2 Bos ,How many GB Vram do you use? what interests me

I think it depends very highly on your resolution. Last time I checked with MSI Afterburner it was around 4GB for me at 1440p. My card is only 6GB and I don't think I've managed to top it out on medium settings. But I have not done exhaustive testing by any means.

 

 And as Alonzo notes above that's what the game is requesting, not necessarily what its using.

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29 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

This is the amount of VRAM requested and allocated by the game

How does the allocation work? is that like a swap file that is actually in size of what the program wants, rather than what it uses? If it was and the game likes to allocate more then the actual VRAM buffer offers, does it swap that part on the system RAM?

Or is it just that the game allocates in the VRAM what it wants and if it can't have that, it just allocates what is there and unless the actual amount of VRAM buffer needed doesn't exceed the VRAM, then there is no effect?

 

I mean, if NVidia chose to run a game test such that it presicely fits on the 10 GB space for ALLOCATED memory (if I undersood correctly, and that exceeds the 8 GB VRAM of previous cards), then there must be a downside to not giving the games what it wants, despite it might need nore?

 

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The 3090 is *not* a cut down Titan card. It replaces the Titan line, which was an nVidia exclusive part, with a part that can be sold through other board vendors. 

 

You can tell that it is a titan card because it will require all of the memory controller units filled and will have all SMs active. 

 

As I understand it, the issue nVidia had with doing between 10 and 24Gb of bRain is that there were only 1GB and 2GB GDDR6X modules designed. I think that they're currently held up on doing a normal Super on Micron developing 1.5Gb modules.

 

From the current most likely rumors, AMD is using standard GDDR6 on their cards so are not limited in that way. But, to blow cold with the same breath, nVidia generally has had better compression techniques so historically seems to use less vram for the same amount of actual data. The interesting thing is, if the 6900 is an 80CU card with 16Gb of vram, that wound imply that the RDNA CU are not tied to the memory driver as closely as they seem to be in the NVidia architectures. That's just something that hit me right now, but I haven't looked at a i numbers for it yet. 

 

@ZachariasX From what I understand, only Doom Eternal with the maximum resolution textures ends up exceeding 8Gb of VRam usage. It shows up as a fairly significant drop in frame rates, relative to other cards in its performance class when enabling those textures. I think Hardware Unboxed mentioned it in their reviews. 

 

The allocation is the program saying "Don't let anyone else have this space." The usage is the program stuffing stuff into the space. If it runs out of space in VRam it stores the rest of the textures in System memory, and pulls those parts from there when it needs to, but that is a *lot* slower than storing it locally in the VRam. 

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35 minutes ago, Voyager said:

The 3090 is *not* a cut down Titan card. It replaces the Titan line, which was an nVidia exclusive part, with a part that can be sold through other board vendors. 

 

You can tell that it is a titan card because it will require all of the memory controller units filled and will have all SMs active. 

 

As I understand it, the issue nVidia had with doing between 10 and 24Gb of bRain is that there were only 1GB and 2GB GDDR6X modules designed. I think that they're currently held up on doing a normal Super on Micron developing 1.5Gb modules.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I was incorrect with my statement about it being a cut-down Titan. I do feel my point stands though: the fact that the 3090 has 24GB of ram and is stupidly expensive doesn't lend credence to the conspiracy theory that 10GB is going to hamstring the 3080.

 

Quote

The allocation is the program saying "Don't let anyone else have this space." The usage is the program stuffing stuff into the space. If it runs out of space in VRam it stores the rest of the textures in System memory, and pulls those parts from there when it needs to, but that is a *lot* slower than storing it locally in the VRam. 

 

Exactly. Basically the card uses system ram (or god forbid, disk) as "swap space" for the textures that won't fit on the card. So if the working set size for textures is over the actual size of VRAM, performance is heavily impacted because the textures get swapped in and out depending on what's visible in the scene.

 

You could argue that 10GB on the 3080 isn't going to be enough for max-resolution texture packs at 4K at some point in the future (say 2022) and that you won't accept less-than-max textures so therefore the 3080 is a bad purchase. But that's a lot of mental gymnastics to poop on a very well performing 4K card that you can buy in 2020.

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10 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

..from your lips to Gods ears...

I'm pretty sure God is spamming F5 to "refresh" on Newegg to make sure he's able to get one of the next batch.

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I've resigned myself to getting one a few months from now when they are actually available. Or if the RDNA2 chips turn out to be good. :)

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1 minute ago, Voyager said:

I've resigned myself to getting one a few months from now when they are actually available. Or if the RDNA2 chips turn out to be good. :)

 

Me too. I've decided it's a good thing, good for my willpower and bank balance, and I might be able to get a hybrid-cooling card, or one with better power limits, or the AMD cards might force NVidia's hand on the 3080ti. And I'm surviving fine with the GPU I was using last week, it hasn't suddenly caught fire and become a turd. (Well, it's a 2080, so arguably it was a bit of a turd from the start... 🙂 )

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8 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I'm pretty sure God is spamming F5 to "refresh" on Newegg to make sure he's able to get one of the next batch.

 

That was crazy ridiculous how fast they sold out this morning. I thought I was all slick, having opened all the store pages hours before that were advertising them for sale. They were all gone in about 2 minutes.

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16 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

That was crazy ridiculous how fast they sold out this morning. I thought I was all slick, having opened all the store pages hours before that were advertising them for sale. They were all gone in about 2 minutes.

Do we have any idea how many units were available? Like are they moving faster than expected or just fewer than expected available.

Anecdotally it seems like there was a ton of people around with 1000 series cards who skipped the 2000s and were waiting for the next step.

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Probably dang scalpers.

I will try for an EVGA 3090 FTW3 as soon as available but am not holding much hope on being able to snag one.

I just keep telling myself I will be lucky to get one by the end of the year at best.

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Sold out in seconds. Had one in the cart but couldn't get payment info in fast enough. Should have thought of registering the card with the site ahead of time. 😄

 

I did manage to place a back order on amazon.ca for an msi one. Hoping it'll que me up fairly well for the second batch.

Edited by SCG_Wulfe

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2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Do we have any idea how many units were available? Like are they moving faster than expected or just fewer than expected available.

Anecdotally it seems like there was a ton of people around with 1000 series cards who skipped the 2000s and were waiting for the next step.

 

I think it's a combo of low availability and the fact that the bots and scalpers jumped the gun on everyone else. I wasn't online until about 5:55 Pacific time, but apparently Newegg's site was already overloaded 15-20 minutes before the official launch time. Nvidia's site simply went from "Not yet available" to "Sold Out", meanwhile.

 

EDIT: good night, the prices on eBay are ridiculous - starting bids of $2500 and up. 🙄

Edited by LukeFF

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19 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

 

EDIT: good night, the prices on eBay are ridiculous - starting bids of $2500 and up. 🙄

You almost have to admire the grift on that LMAO. You could buy a very good gaming PC with a good monitor or VR headset for that.
Anyone who buys one of those for more than 2500 bucks has too much money and should send me some.

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Just now, RedKestrel said:

You almost have to admire the grift on that LMAO. You could buy a very good gaming PC with a good monitor or VR headset for that.
Anyone who buys one of those for more than 2500 bucks has too much money and should send me some.

 

Yes, and it's a good sign of what we are going to see with the 3090 release - just higher numbers.

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I know it is a placeholder at Amazon.de...but LOL!

 

image.png.e9e571ce4902878f2c36886d14f62f56.png

 

Zotac is more realistic:

 

image.png.31710b2427dfeb59b582211cf2ccd3d8.png

Edited by sevenless

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3 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Thanks for the clarification, I was incorrect with my statement about it being a cut-down Titan. I do feel my point stands though: the fact that the 3090 has 24GB of ram and is stupidly expensive doesn't lend credence to the conspiracy theory that 10GB is going to hamstring the 3080.

 

You could argue that 10GB on the 3080 isn't going to be enough for max-resolution texture packs at 4K at some point in the future (say 2022) and that you won't accept less-than-max textures so therefore the 3080 is a bad purchase. But that's a lot of mental gymnastics to poop on a very well performing 4K card that you can buy in 2020.

 

I am wrong. It turns out that the Battlefield settings used by Digital Foundry on their paid promotional piece showing the 3080 as being 80-90% better than the 2080 were deliberately chosen to use more than 8GB VRAM but less than 10GB. This hamstrung the 2080 and let the 3080 stretch its legs, at 4K resolution.

 

So. @Jaws2002 and @Voyager I apologize, I am wrong, it does look like 10GB is a questionable amount of VRAM, maybe not exactly today, but probably in the mid term.

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7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is the amount of VRAM requested and allocated by the game, not the amount actually in use. These are useless figures.

 

-> When a Game requesting all VRAM from the card even when sitting in the settings menu,  that is certainly a case of the game making sure it doesn’t run out of memory by requesting pretty much everything that was available.

 

8GB VRAM is the Sweet Spot for 1440p and 4k for the next two years. 11GB VRAM more future proof. 24GB VRAM is overkill unless you play in 8k

 

7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

deliberately chosen to use more than 8GB VRAM but less than 10GB.

 

When you turn on RTX in Battlefield the VRAM usage increase.

 

7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

The 3090 is a cut-down Titan that NVidia can sell to people who have money to burn on the absolute best card, it's not a mainstream gaming card. I don't think your argument holds water.

 

 

Don't worry a 3080 Ti maybe coming. Between 3080 @ $700 and 3090 @ $1500 is enough space for the 3080 Ti.

 

7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I think NVidia has made an odd decision with the 10GB of VRAM, but trying to say that it's crippled because of the lack of VRAM is just a bunch of people on the internet with way less information than NVidia themselves creating drama and conspiracy theories.

 

 

Nvidia is and was always stingy when it comes to amount of VRAM. 11GB VRAM before now 10GB VRAM, big drama about the 1GB.

Edited by Livai

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1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

were deliberately chosen to use more than 8GB VRAM but less than 10GB. This hamstrung the 2080 and let the 3080 stretch its legs, at 4K resolution.

It would be meaningless to compare the two if one of them were swapping textures out of VRAM, so I don't think there's anything dishonest there, if they mentioned how they conducted the tests. The VRAM limitation is something to be aware of, and luckily it's easy to scale usage down by lowering texture quality without losing too much quality.

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1 hour ago, Bernard_IV said:

I also had one in my cart and could not pay fast enough.  Confessional:  I was going to flip it if I got it. 

Boo

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2 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Boo

 

Double boo.

Scalpers are the reason no one could hardly get one.

 

Not necessarily directed at you Bernard.

Edited by dburne

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1 hour ago, coconut said:

It would be meaningless to compare the two if one of them were swapping textures out of VRAM, so I don't think there's anything dishonest there, if they mentioned how they conducted the tests. The VRAM limitation is something to be aware of, and luckily it's easy to scale usage down by lowering texture quality without losing too much quality.

 

That's the point. No settings were given, or actual frame rates, only frame rate comparisons.

 

Digital Foundry was given very specific instructions and used settings that put the 2080 8GB into "texture swapping" territory, but did not put the 3080 10GB into texture swapping. That allowed the "up to 80% faster" claim to be 'verified' by Digital Foundry two weeks ago. Real reviewers using regular benchmark techniques have found significantly less of an advantage of the 3080 over the 2080.

 

This is why it's dishonest, the texture swapping gave the 3080 an extra advantage at those very specific settings.

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

Double boo.

Scalpers are the reason no one could hardly get one.

 

Not necessarily directed at you Bernard.

😈Fools who will pay 2k for one are the reason no one can get them.  I don't think this shortage will last long with GPU mining being mostly dead.

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Apparently some people were writing bits to submit false bids of scalper cards, so even if you had gotten it and tried to flip it, it would probably have resulted in a set of no-pay bids. 

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12 hours ago, Voyager said:

Apparently some people were writing bits to submit false bids of scalper cards, so even if you had gotten it and tried to flip it, it would probably have resulted in a set of no-pay bids. 

 

I hope they keep the ant-scalper scripts running for at least a month. Scalpers are scumbags.

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I was able to get a card purchased from Amazon this morning, showing a release date of September 30. Hopefully it goes through - I read yesterday of people who ordered the card on Newegg and received a purchase receipt, and then about and hour or so later received another email saying their order had been cancelled due to insufficient inventory.

Edited by LukeFF

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