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Can we get a Black pilot


-332FG-Buddy

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-332FG-Buddy

Ok before people go crazy I am pretty familiar with the history of black pilots during world war two and that they were not part of this area of operation.   with that said, we have a lollipop skin and it would be nice to put a black pilot in that acft.  just asking not trying to be whinny, if it happens great if not oh well.

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migmadmarine

IIRC in a previous thread Jason said he would like to do more things like this, but not to expect it any time soon as it is a fair bit of work to implement and kinda low priority. 

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Mitthrawnuruodo

Not happening, or at least not right now. New pilot models are much more expensive than a few special aircraft skins. It's not really comparable.

 

Plus, many other personnel that were very relevant to the game's theatres have yet to be created.

 

However, I'm sure that someone in the "Mods" section would be willing to create a nice custom pilot texture if it were suggested there.

 

 

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-332FG-Buddy

As a black guy I'm offended that the post is closet to avoid apolitical conversation.  I don't care about apolitical, I like/enjoy historical items added to a historical flight sim ....we have a redtail skin but no black pilot ....I'm good with both responses ...what I don't like is the "closed post"

Edited by -332FG-Buddy
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Monksilver
On 8/8/2020 at 5:07 AM, -332FG-Buddy said:

Ok before people go crazy I am pretty familiar with the history of black pilots during world war two and that they were not part of this area of operation.   with that said, we have a lollipop skin and it would be nice to put a black pilot in that acft.  just asking not trying to be whinny, if it happens great if not oh well.

 

In honour of those men of African and Indian heritage who risked, and in some cases lost their lives flying for Britain (and thank you!)

 

 

 

 

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DD_Arthur

Great pictures Monksilver. I’ve got the pictures of my late father being commissioned into the 3rd. Battalion of the Black Watch in Poona, India in January 1946. The majority of his course were Sikhs and dad was immediately seconded to the Indian army where he became a platoon commander in a Sikh regiment. For the rest of his life he retained a deep affection for the Sikh people and felt a great injustice had been done to them upon Indian independence when they were disbarred from having their own state.  We really could have black pilots modelled in this sim as there were certainly several dozen who served in the RAF and flew in operations in NW Europe.

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JG7_X-Man
3 hours ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

As a black guy I'm offended that the post is closet to avoid apolitical conversation.  I don't care about apolitical, I like/enjoy historical items added to a historical flight sim ....we have a redtail skin but no black pilot ....I'm good with both responses ...what I don't like is the "closed post"

 

@-332FG-Buddy I think the issue is more from a programming perspective - the pilot models we have now are all "hard coded" into the game. Thus, we only get different pilots models based on map/season and a different variant at a certain  altitude (4K and above we have oxygen mask versions). If there were a choice of having a single pilot model, it would have to be caucasian/ anglo-saxon simply from a historic percentage of pilots that flew during that era. 

 

On the other hand, if we had the ability to select pilot models I would support your issue. Since we don't, I will politely agree with Mitthrawnuruodo and say, you might want to ask a mod developer for help with that.

 

I think sometimes we can have a respectable conversation like adults on touchy matters without having the thread locked.:coffee:

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Monksilver
26 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Great pictures Monksilver. I’ve got the pictures of my late father being commissioned into the 3rd. Battalion of the Black Watch in Poona, India in January 1946. The majority of his course were Sikhs and dad was immediately seconded to the Indian army where he became a platoon commander in a Sikh regiment. For the rest of his life he retained a deep affection for the Sikh people and felt a great injustice had been done to them upon Indian independence when they were disbarred from having their own state.  We really could have black pilots modelled in this sim as there were certainly several dozen who served in the RAF and flew in operations in NW Europe.

 

I agree about the Sikhs. Some more photos for you. Hasn't taken me long to find these.  

 

They are looking for an idea for a new statue in Bristol - I think they could do a lot worse than a statue of such men.

 

I don't know how much effort it would take to add some diversity. Perhaps the developers could do it to generate some publicity and so sales? Perhaps someone can do some mods.

 

On 8/8/2020 at 5:07 AM, -332FG-Buddy said:

Ok before people go crazy I am pretty familiar with the history of black pilots during world war two and that they were not part of this area of operation.   with that said, we have a lollipop skin and it would be nice to put a black pilot in that acft.  just asking not trying to be whinny, if it happens great if not oh well.

Thank you to -332FG-Buddy for his post which set me thinking about the contribution of other races to our fight for survival.

 

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On 8/8/2020 at 5:07 AM, -332FG-Buddy said:

 we have a lollipop skin 

 

For those that don't know, a "lollipop" is an attractive woman.  Watch out for #MeToo.

 

There were black and asian pilots in the RAF throughout the Bodenplatte period (and in fact from 1917). I'm thinking you want a USAAF pilot for a Redtails scenario.  Perhaps ask Jason how much it cost to produce the female pilot and see if you can crowd-fund a black pilot to get one sooner.  That or see if there is anyone who could work with them to make it.

 

I'd never use it but it's a worthy cause so I'd chip in.

 

von Tom

 

ps  Redtails is being mooted as the replacement name for the Redskins.   I'm not convinced - might be better calling them the Piscatawa or something.

Edited by von_Tom
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RedKestrel
1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

@-332FG-Buddy I think the issue is more from a programming perspective - the pilot models we have now are all "hard coded" into the game. Thus, we only get different pilots models based on map/season and a different variant at a certain  altitude (4K and above we have oxygen mask versions). If there were a choice of having a single pilot model, it would have to be caucasian/ anglo-saxon simply from a historic percentage of pilots that flew during that era. 

 

On the other hand, if we had the ability to select pilot models I would support your issue. Since we don't, I will politely agree with Mitthrawnuruodo and say, you might want to ask a mod developer for help with that.

 

I think sometimes we can have a respectable conversation like adults on touchy matters without having the thread locked.:coffee:


The latest DD indicated that the female pilot model will be available as an option for the U-2 and the Yak-1 and 1b. So it might be that things are not as 'hard coded' anymore, and pilot models could be options based on the planes. So theoretically the main barrier to different pilot models is not the way it is coded, but the time/resources involved.

 

Looking at the quality of the new pilot models I imagine it takes quite a bit of time just on the facial features. 

I would totally support seeing black pilots, east indian pilots, asian pilots... I think most WWII history misses out on the diversity of the various combatant forces and it's a damn shame. I can't see how more representation would have a down side - other than, yes, the shortage of time and money to produce the pilot models.

 

 

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JG7_X-Man
9 hours ago, RedKestrel said:


The latest DD indicated that the female pilot model will be available as an option for the U-2 and the Yak-1 and 1b. So it might be that things are not as 'hard coded' anymore, and pilot models could be options based on the planes. So theoretically the main barrier to different pilot models is not the way it is coded, but the time/resources involved.

 

Looking at the quality of the new pilot models I imagine it takes quite a bit of time just on the facial features. 

I would totally support seeing black pilots, east indian pilots, asian pilots... I think most WWII history misses out on the diversity of the various combatant forces and it's a damn shame. I can't see how more representation would have a down side - other than, yes, the shortage of time and money to produce the pilot models.

 

 

:good:

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DBFlyguy

Pretty interesting info kinda related to this topic that I really wasn't aware of until fairly recently

 

 

 

 

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Many pilots had moustache too, but still the generalization is ok for me. 
 

Variations in planeset are much more important in a flight sim IMO.

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-332FG-Ursus_
On 8/8/2020 at 1:07 AM, -332FG-Buddy said:

Ok before people go crazy I am pretty familiar with the history of black pilots during world war two and that they were not part of this area of operation.   with that said, we have a lollipop skin and it would be nice to put a black pilot in that acft.  just asking not trying to be whinny, if it happens great if not oh well.

 

Few days ago in the DD it was stated that Yak-1 Yak-1B and U2 will have female pilots as an option because is historical. 

 

Therefore is not a big deal add black pilots for allies or as the red tail P-51 exclusive thing in the BoBP era, because G-Suit is already in use. For Normandy and before that you need a model without G-Suit wich is already in work.

 

I think this is not that different as the female pilots. Is just if there is time for the developers for do that. I'm sure we will have black pilots sooner or later in IL-2 BoBP and BoN

 

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Monksilver
3 hours ago, -332FG-REDMAN said:

Why aren't there any black pilots, they flew in the war as well.

 

 

 

Shouldn't that be "Why aren't there any black pilots, they flew well in the war."

 

In fact pilots from other races flew well in both wars. In WW1 Indra Lal Roy from India got 10 kills in his SE5a and so was an ace.

 

If the developers are savvy enough they could get some good PR out of introducing diversity and seeing if it could boost sales in some communities and countries. 

 

 

 

 

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-332FG-Buddy
On 8/10/2020 at 10:02 AM, JG7_X-Man said:

 

@-332FG-Buddy I think the issue is more from a programming perspective - the pilot models we have now are all "hard coded" into the game. Thus, we only get different pilots models based on map/season and a different variant at a certain  altitude (4K and above we have oxygen mask versions). If there were a choice of having a single pilot model, it would have to be caucasian/ anglo-saxon simply from a historic percentage of pilots that flew during that era. 

 

On the other hand, if we had the ability to select pilot models I would support your issue. Since we don't, I will politely agree with Mitthrawnuruodo and say, you might want to ask a mod developer for help with that.

 

I think sometimes we can have a respectable conversation like adults on touchy matters without having the thread locked.:coffee:

I think that last paragraph sums it up for me perfectly ....thank you

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Gambit21
On 8/11/2020 at 11:26 AM, Hanu said:

Many pilots had moustache too, but still the generalization is ok for me. 
 

Variations in planeset are much more important in a flight sim IMO.

 

Exactly

I'm half Hispanic in origin and TONS of Hispanics served and flew - but the furthest thing from my mind is a pilot that looks like my grandfather. 

 

Horses for courses - I’d rather see time spent on various vehicle models etc and airbase scenery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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DBFlyguy
On 8/11/2020 at 2:26 PM, Hanu said:

Many pilots had moustache too, but still the generalization is ok for me. 
 

Variations in planeset are much more important in a flight sim IMO.

 

Are we really equating having or not having a moustache to an entire race of people 🤨

 

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Exactly

I'm half Hispanic in origin and TONS of Hispanics served and flew - but the furthest thing from my mind is a pilot that looks like my grandfather. 

 

Horses for courses - I’d rather see time spent on various vehicle models etc and airbase scenery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time is already being spent on various vehicle models and scenery, that's going to happen regardless.  Fair enough if this idea doesn't interest you, just try not to be so dismissive to those players that also wouldn't mind a nice historical nod for a change. 

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Gambit21
24 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

Time is already being spent on various vehicle models and scenery, that's going to happen regardless.  Fair enough if this idea doesn't interest you, just try not to be so dismissive to those players that also wouldn't mind a nice historical nod for a change. 

 

I didn't dismiss anyone, I said “horses for courses”  😉

 

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18 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

Are we really equating having or not having a moustache to an entire race of people 🤨


Your mine is way too visible. I won’t tread on it.

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Avimimus

Many people of different backgrounds fought fascism in WWII... and they deserve to not just be remembered - but honoured as well. I'd happily donate.

 

You've got my support.

 

P.S. They may not have fought at the front, but women also served with the Western Allies in the various ferry services. It might not be combat, but ferrying aircraft across the Atlantic is pretty dangerous - and a number of them died. Since we're starting to remember a bit more widely in this thread - I thought I'd acknowledge them too.

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JG1_Vonrd

5. Female crews option added to U-2VS, Yak-1 ser. 69 and Yak-1b ser. 127 aircraft;

 

Thank you!

 

Wouldn't it be nice and appropriate to issue a Black pilot to represent the Tuskegee Airmen with the upcoming release of the P-51B / C? 

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JG7_X-Man
42 minutes ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

5. Female crews option added to U-2VS, Yak-1 ser. 69 and Yak-1b ser. 127 aircraft;

 

Thank you!

 

Wouldn't it be nice and appropriate to issue a Black pilot to represent the Tuskegee Airmen with the upcoming release of the P-51B / C? 

 

Ummm, I would have to say it's the theater/map that drives the pilot skin and not the aircraft. Not sure African-American/Black pilots saw action in the area of the maps we have currently (including the Rhine map).

 

HOWEVER, if we are talking about tank crews:

 

image.png.e084427c219064464af1df00eed96d66.png

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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II./JG1_Labroisse
20 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Ummm, I would have to say it's the theater/map that drives the pilot skin and not the aircraft. Not sure African-American/Black pilots saw action in the area of the maps we have currently (including the Rhine map).

 

HOWEVER, if we are talking about tank crews:

 

image.png.e084427c219064464af1df00eed96d66.png

 

 

There is a good book about African-American tankers, co-written by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.  Brothers in Arms I think it is called.

 

 

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On 8/10/2020 at 7:44 PM, DBFlyguy said:

Pretty interesting info kinda related to this topic that I really wasn't aware of until fairly recently

 

I've been reading through a lot of RAF squadron reports recently, and one thing that came across as interesting to me was a Typhoon pilot from 175 Squadron who is listed as being from the Jamaican RAF, a Flight Sergeant Ashman. 

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HBPencil
27 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I've been reading through a lot of RAF squadron reports recently, and one thing that came across as interesting to me was a Typhoon pilot from 175 Squadron who is listed as being from the Jamaican RAF, a Flight Sergeant Ashman. 

Yep, there were some Caribbean, Indian, Asian and Maori pilots and aircrew within the RAF.

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Reggie_Mental

Years ago I lived in a flat in Stockwell. Downstairs from me was a pensioner called Eddy. Eddy was born in Clapham, South London in 1919. Eddy was a bomber command veteran navigator, but he never flew more than a handful of missions as he was creamed off as a navigation instructor in 1941 and spent the rest of the war training Caribbean and Commonwealth crews on B24 Liberators in Bermuda. Before his posting, white officers laughed, saying he'll need a lot of bananas, and that negroes are childlike and incapable of the self discipline required to be aircrew. Such views were commonplace in the 1930s/early 40s.

 

He of course found nothing of the sort. Instead he found quietly confident and highly skilled crewmen who learned quickly and easily. Of course they would be. They were the pick of the technical schools all over the Caribbean and Commonwealth. But to this day, they are not properly recognised for their contribution by successive governments. To be fair to the RAF, by war's end they had fully embraced diversity and equality and none of the various races and nationalities that volunteered were discriminated against in Bomber Command in particular. 

 

I suppose it was a natural conclusion in a fight against fascist and racist ideologies of the Axis.

 

He died in 2002. Myself and 4 members of his family attended the funeral. About 40 Caribbean and commonwealth aircrew pensioners attended, who all had fabulous stories to tell. Most of which I can't remember because a lot of rum was drunk at the wake.

Edited by Reggie_Mental
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-332FG-Buddy
On 8/17/2020 at 9:04 PM, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Ummm, I would have to say it's the theater/map that drives the pilot skin and not the aircraft. Not sure African-American/Black pilots saw action in the area of the maps we have currently (including the Rhine map).

 

HOWEVER, if we are talking about tank crews:

 

image.png.e084427c219064464af1df00eed96d66.png

They didn't, which is fine but why tease with the skin but not the pilot?...again the last thing I wanted was a me too movement on here lol but ....if they could add females..........which is ok........why not add pilots of color....raf did have pilots of color and the fact that they took time to make a Tuskegee skin without adding the Tuskegee pilot is kinda of half assed ...again there are many other issues i have spoken on ( in other threads of course) that I would like to be addressed first......in my mind this just seems likea a "small" thing they could do to show that they are listening 

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Eisenfaustus
3 hours ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

why tease with the skin but not the pilot?

Because they always did - several German planes have desert skins as well - they always included skins not fitting their scenario. Nevertheless I don’t expect them to do a German pilot in desert uniform to fit the skin.

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-332FG-Buddy
1 hour ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Because they always did - several German planes have desert skins as well - they always included skins not fitting their scenario. Nevertheless I don’t expect them to do a German pilot in desert uniform to fit the skin.

Why comment cause now ur adding uniform and comparing that to a person ....this is why I stop commenting because homers like u...not meaning to be rude it just pisses me off that that's ur analogy to whyi can't have a different shade of human that matches that historical skin

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Eisenfaustus
56 minutes ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

Why comment cause now ur adding uniform and comparing that to a person ....this is why I stop commenting because homers like u...not meaning to be rude it just pisses me off that that's ur analogy to whyi can't have a different shade of human that matches that historical skin

That you wish to have black pilot skin because it is important to you, that "diffrent shades of human" fought in WWII is fair enough for me - but argueing it should be there because an aircraft skin exists doesn't make sense to me. Instead of being happy that taskegee at least got an aircraft skin that reminds of their contribution you call it a tease... great! (And don't get me wrong you could be happy to have the skin and still wish for a black pilot model - doesn't contradict) Basically reprimanding the devs for the inclusion of a aircraft skin seemed wrong to me.

 

Btw - if you were trying to insult me by comparing me to one of the greatest poets in human history - you utterly failed ;)

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Monksilver
2 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

to one of the greatest poets in human history 

 

One of  the best lines I ever read anywhere was in the Iliad about the aftermath of a battle - "They lay in the dust, a sight more appealing to the vultures than to their wives." 

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Monksilver
On 8/18/2020 at 11:49 PM, LukeFF said:

 

I've been reading through a lot of RAF squadron reports recently, and one thing that came across as interesting to me was a Typhoon pilot from 175 Squadron who is listed as being from the Jamaican RAF, a Flight Sergeant Ashman. 

I found this on Ashman 

 

"Ashes" Ashman was killed on 27th February 1945 as a result of an abortive show which should never have been put on. Because of weather, no ops were conducted and 175 was just on call. There certainly was a hum when a signal came through for four aircraft to make an effort to see if any targets could be caught moving on the roads in the Steinhuder Lake area. This looked a dicy show from the start and it was decided to draw low cards to make up a section with the CO, Rollo Campbell. I had flown 121 ops by then and Ashes had 103 - normally a tour completed after 100 ops but as replacement pilots were slow in coming through, we had exceeded our total. The CO said we needn't be in the draw, but we both declined the offer and took part. The three lowest cards were, Pilot Officer Ainsley, and - would you believe it - Ashes and myself.

Apart from our cannons we had six rockets and two LR tanks. We climbed up through the overcast on instruments and eventually broke cloud at about 6,000 feet, joined up and set course for the target area. When we reached it there was no break in the overcast so after dropping our tanks we dived down into it but as we were still in cloud fairly well down, we climbed again and broke cloud. Above cloud we were scattered and only three in number. It was very touchy getting back through the overcast but the CO and I got into our base, Bob Ainsley overshooting to land at Eindhoven. Some months later, Ashes' aircraft was found crashed on a hill in the area into which we dived.

See:
Typhoon Attack.
Franks,Norman L. R.
London:William Kimber,1984.
p221.

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JG1_Vonrd
On 8/11/2020 at 3:02 PM, -332FG-REDMAN said:

lol my post was moved in here.

Yeah, mine too. And we've seen no replies from any Dev either yea, nay or even acknowledging the question. 

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6 hours ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

And we've seen no replies from any Dev either yea, nay or even acknowledging the question. 

 

 

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