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MigSu

Blackout in the red side is Killing the IL2

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I *think* I get where you are coming from Tumu.  There are many factors at play and your comment about pilot feedback particularly involving pulling G's, and yanking the stick with force causing blackouts.  What I hear you saying is that a real pilot would have to use a lot of physical strength to pull those maneuvers, and that type of feedback is missing.

I'm not sure I would argue against your point.  Good observation!

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Maybe adjusting stick sensitivity could help with twitchy elevators?

 

Other then that, I think black outs were really less of a problem in109s then in allied planes as most fighter pilots lacked the excessive physical strength needed to pull high g‘s in a 109. that’s also were it it‘s reputation as a bad turner. The plane could turn well - most aviators couldn’t ^^

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Posted (edited)

yes Beazil ,

on some way this feedback is modeled... expecialy when u do consecutive maneuvors and your pilot is tired.  from me the point is increase this feedback, add more effects can traslate to virtual pilot better your situation and thre reaction u will have on next maneuvor.

 

Eisenfaustus

The only thing really can help is forceback system... but expecialy on end-line joysticks , this feature isnt avaliable.

The problem i find, is adjustament stick sensitivity is a "static" answer to one "dinamic" cuestion. G forces are variable, your static preset works only to concrete state... 

The posible solution need be something from game. I mean , under some g forces , game have to adjust  sensibility.... simulating the force that will  be request... maybe isnt posible to do, i dont know to much about computer lenguajes.

 

But i think it is posible, when u feel your controls become hard, i mean u lost authority , is because speed factor is computing in authority (  via sufaces controls ),  on same way G forces ,need compute in authority,  (via strengh of pilot to move stick ) maybe all of this is in some way present, and simply need a better adjustament.

 

Edited by HRc_Tumu

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I imagine there is a way to simulate physical strength of the pilot in game Something like putting a top end speed for change of angle of control surfaces to X degrees per second modulated by current airspeed of the plane; some big aeronautics nerd could supply the math to make it realistic or plausible. That in might mitigate some of the strangeness in the flight model like the floppy planes and some of the G force issues.

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yes, time is a factor.

 

reading biographys of ww2 pilots, many describe how literally  they needed hang-up (himself) from contol  ... or help with legs to find the necessary force needed. In this cases, maybe pilot on extra effort . have some authority over controls, but need extra efford and extra time.

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1 hour ago, HRc_Tumu said:

yes Beazil ,

on some way this feedback is modeled... expecialy when u do consecutive maneuvors and your pilot is tired.  from me the point is increase this feedback, add more effects can traslate to virtual pilot better your situation and thre reaction u will have on next maneuvor.

 

Eisenfaustus

The only thing really can help is forceback system... but expecialy on end-line joysticks , this feature isnt avaliable.

The problem i find, is adjustament stick sensitivity is a "static" answer to one "dinamic" cuestion. G forces are variable, your static preset works only to concrete state... 

The posible solution need be something from game. I mean , under some g forces , game have to adjust  sensibility.... simulating the force that will  be request... maybe isnt posible to do, i dont know to much about computer lenguajes.

 

But i think it is posible, when u feel your controls become hard, i mean u lost authority , is because speed factor is computing in authority (  via sufaces controls ),  on same way G forces ,need compute in authority,  (via strengh of pilot to move stick ) maybe all of this is in some way present, and simply need a better adjustament.

 

I believe that this is a case where force feedback devices would be a good asset here.  There are still some old (and young!) virtual pilots that swear by the Ms force feedback sticks made 15-20 years ago for this reason.  It's a shame that the technology is more abandonware these days as it appears (in my very limited knowledge on the issue) M$ owns the patent for force feedback and licensing/manufacturing with this tech is not easily obtained by manufacturers of sticks for our hobby.  I bet we have some users here that could share.  Hopefully one of them will comment.

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Posted (edited)

Migsu. If you can not kill a G2 with a LaFN is a skill problem. 

Edited by E69_geramos109

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7 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I don't know, I interpreted what he was saying as basically, a lot of the more agile 'red' planes have sensitive elevators and strong elevator authority, so you can black out really quick. Whereas 'blue' planes don't have that same sensitivity, so you have a window of time to adjust yourself if you pull too hard. Whereas, in a spitfire or a Yak-1 you can over-pull quite easily and end up in blackout land, and because of the pilot fatigue model once you make this mistake early in a fight it disadvantages you for quite some time. I don't have the Yak-9 but I have seen others discuss what he is saying about that plane, where the elevator is much less twitchy and responsive and you don't black out as easily since you can't accidentally apply g-force too quickly.

I think its just going to take a long time for people who are used to leveraging that high elevator authority/response in a dogfight to get used to the new model, where applying those forces quick and hard is now a disadvantage, rather than an advantage.

 

 

That's exactly how it read to me.....

But are these not just the handling quirks of individual planes?

I mean all planes cannot feel the same, have the same stick force and induce blackout in the same linear fashion...?

Wouldn't that be boring if they all handled the same?

Surely you'll just have to practice to get the best out of the planes you fly regularly.

It adds another dynamic to the game... 

 

And i use a MSFFB stick, good for knowing the start of, and riding a stall, not much use for the onset of G-lock!! 😀

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@MigSu

 

In case you didn't know, there is an accelerometer available, so you can check by yourself that red pilots are not weaker than germans. 

 

Also, every planes have a different elevator authority, depending on speed. It's way easier to black out in a Tempest than a 109 (or a Yak9 ;) ), for example.

 

End of the story. 

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Red aircraft (generally) are more responsive to pitch so it make sense that at speed pilots can over-control and enter blackout.  If someone is going straight to blackout then either they're doing an emergency move or they're heavy on the controls.  In all other situations it is possible to ease off the input though as we all know, the temptation is to ride the G limit just a little too long...

 

von Tom

Edited by von_Tom
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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2020 at 4:18 PM, E69_geramos109 said:

Migsu. If you can not kill a G2 with a LaFN is a skill problem. 

Hagamos el cambio y probemos! You should try by yourself, switch to red and enter in a MP server and take note about your kills.   

 

 It's very interesting how more than 70% of responses re from LW pilots, and ofcourse defending everything is ok when is for theyr advantages, presenting tons of argues and even there is one of them asking for proofs (omfg!) but nothing about testing what we are talking about.

 

 Mira Karaya!! 

 No perdere mi tiempo intentado A Tí probarte algo solo porque tu lo pides , tu sabes bien lo que se alega y el porque, hay varios temas sobre esto en el foro, pero te es mas productivo estar en contra, claro! Pruebalo si quieres, en cinco minutos lo notas, claro si algo de sensatez corre por tus venas, de lo contrario dejalo así. 
 Ademas no resolvemos nada probandote a ti nada men! (ni Dev que fueras)    

 

 Keep there guys!

Edited by MigSu
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, MigSu said:

Hagamos el cambio y probemos! You should try by yourself, switch to red and enter in a MP server and take note about your kills.   

 

 It's very interesting how more than 70% of responses re from LW pilots, and ofcourse defending everything is ok when is for theyr advantages, presenting tons of argues and even there is one of them asking for proofs (omfg!) but nothing about testing what we are talking about.

 

Ups...

Now can you show me your "proofs going in to a server and killing all the La5Fns with a G2,G4,orG6? I guess not.

La5 has a 40Kph advantage over a G4 on emergency ower. The speed difference with a G6 on combat power is like 70kph... and with fokes is 20kph on the deck, Is as agile and even more than any 109 and the only limitation is the diving max speed. Climb rate is very close as well to 109s and that is the only thing 109s can do to scape from you so you are really doing something wrong. 

 

Edited by E69_geramos109
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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, MigSu said:

 It's very interesting how more than 70% of responses re from LW pilots, and ofcourse defending everything is ok when is for theyr advantages, presenting tons of argues and even there is one of them asking for proofs (omfg!) but nothing about testing what we are talking about.

 

 

6 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

In case you didn't know, there is an accelerometer available, so you can check by yourself that red pilots are not weaker than germans. 

 

Also, every planes have a different elevator authority, depending on speed. It's way easier to black out in a Tempest than a 109 (or a Yak9 ;) ), for example.

 

End of the story. 

 

What part you don't understand? 

 

Your black out problem come only from you. Pull less, and learn to fight with it. 

 

In my case, it's not because there is "JG300" in front of my nickname that I fly 99% blue. It's more like 50/50. 

Edited by JG300_Faucon
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, MigSu said:

Pruebalo si quieres, en cinco minutos lo notas, claro si algo de sensatez corre por tus venas

 

Creo que estas tu mostando tu falta de sensatez y poca humildad no reconociendo tu limitacion como jugador y echando la culpa al avion cuando lo que falta es habilidad por tu parte migsu. 

25 minutes ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

 

 

What part you don't understand? 

 

Your black out problem come only from you. Pull less, and learn to fight with it. 

 

In my case, it's not because there is "JG300" in front of my nickname that I fly 99% blue. It's more like 50/50. 

There are allways people who beliebe that because in your name you have a JG or a 109 you allways fly blue...

Here my stats from last months on the servers and here we have Migsu telling that we dont know because we just fly or kill somithing on the blue side and calling us morons if we dont realice that on 5 mins flying Red XD

May: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/es/pilot/5011/E69_geramos109/?tour=60

Juny: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/es/pilot/5011/E69_geramos109/?tour=61

July: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/es/pilot/5011/E69_geramos109/?tour=62

Combat box

May: https://combatbox.net/es/pilot/1126/E69_geramos109/?tour=22

Juny: https://combatbox.net/es/pilot/1126/E69_geramos109/?tour=23

July: https://combatbox.net/es/pilot/1126/E69_geramos109/?tour=24

 

@MigSu Can you tell me what server are you flying? I can not find you on Wings, finish or Combat BOX server and for sure I can not find those 109 sorties you were talking about killing every La5Fn. Maybe you are flying on one of the arcade servers with markers etc? 

Edited by E69_geramos109

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44 minutes ago, MigSu said:

Hagamos el cambio y probemos! You should try by yourself, switch to red and enter in a MP server and take note about your kills.   

 

 It's very interesting how more than 70% of responses re from LW pilots, and ofcourse defending everything is ok when is for theyr advantages, presenting tons of argues and even there is one of them asking for proofs (omfg!) but nothing about testing what we are talking about.

 

 Mira Karaya!! 

 

 

 Keep there guys!

You are so right.  Oh how you've blow through our cover!  Absolutely there is a huge issue and a conspiracy afoot to invalidate your claims of axis bias!  Nothing gets past you!

 

If you just want to climb up on a soapbox and yell bias or bullsheet, feel free to do so.  You only make yourself look foolish. 

None of us has to prove diddly to you.  We participate in these discussions of our own volition voluntarily.  Poo poo the responses you receive at your detriment.  

Seriously.  How about you post your sorties for scrutiny so we can validate/invalidate your experience.  Sound dumb?  Sounds just as assinine comming from you.  None of us owes you a thing.

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25 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Creo que estas tu mostando tu falta de sensatez y poca humildad no reconociendo tu limitacion como jugador y echando la culpa al avion cuando lo que falta es habilidad por tu parte migsu. 

 Uy pero te tomaste eso muy eprsonal chulo, ni siquiera era contigo!

 

25 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

There are allways people who beliebe that because in your name you have a JG or a 109 you allways fly blue...

Here my stats from last months on the servers and here we have Migsu telling that we dont know because we just fly or kill somithing on the blue side and calling us morons if we dont realice that on 5 mins flying Red XD

You know what i am talking, we know each other, but again i am not talking about you!

 

 

25 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

@MigSu Can you tell me what server are you flying? I can not find you on Wings, finish or Combat BOX server. Maybe you are flying on one of the arcade servers with markers etc? 

 Yes arcade with mark and all of that, where whe used to play, remember? rare that in those server we have G-Force efect? Come on Geramos i am talking seriously! 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2020 at 10:14 PM, MigSu said:

 Uy pero te tomaste eso muy eprsonal chulo, ni siquiera era contigo!

Really? The entire post is about the reds not capable of [edited] and you talk about La5Fn being a shit compared with a 109G is not personal I am just discussing with you and trying to tell you that you should look in to yourself and learn to play if you are claming that because FN is clearly far better plane than a G2. My entire Yt channel is about teaching people on how to fly the planes and I have some on reds so makes no sense for me lying and telling one plane is shit when is not. 

On 7/31/2020 at 10:14 PM, MigSu said:

You know what i am talking, we know each other, but again i am not talking about you!

Yes you are quoting me about presenting proofs and playing red making kills etc. I presented you some and now? Can you present yours?

On 7/31/2020 at 10:14 PM, MigSu said:

 Yes arcade with mark and all of that, where whe used to play, remember? rare that in those server we have G-Force efect? Come on Geramos i am talking seriously! 

Ok then show me please some of your stats killing La5FNs on some serious server. Because I was not able to find and I think you are just complaining without even flying on the servers just because you like to cry for Luft Bias on this forum

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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On 7/30/2020 at 7:27 PM, JG51_Beazil said:

 M$ owns the patent for force feedback and licensing/manufacturing with this tech is not easily obtained by manufacturers of sticks for our hobby.  

 

It wasn't like that.  Microsoft stopped making these sticks and all force feedback products after being sued by a third party for breach of their patent by Microsoft.

Luckily their sticks seem indestructible but I'm not taking any chances.....I've got three!:)

 

@MigSu;  I'm not 'blue' pilot and I'm not 'red' pilot.  If I join a dogfight server I fly for balance.  I can also tell you that all the high performance stuff in this game will black you out equally well if you're hamfisted enough.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MigSu said:

 

 

You know what i am talking, we know each other, but again i am not talking about you!

 

Then who are you speaking to?  Because you've thrown a blanket over alot of us and it's hard to say who you are addressing.  

The flight model is the flight model.  It isn't different for each side.  The planes are modelled to the best ability of the developer.  If you found a bug report it.  

If we had "Red" squad members responding, they would tell you the same thing.  I hope one of them chimes up soon.  

Excepting crazy mismatched setups (and even including those sometimes), it's the pilot, not the plane.  

I don't know what you need to hear for this to make sense to you.  I guess if enough "Red" guys respond in kind.  I honestly don't see them disagreeing.

Folks who are good on one side tend to be pretty good on the other.  Ever wonder why?

Oh one more item, I assumed you were responding to Geramos because you were speaking to him in another language.  Geramos is multi-lingual.  I myself am not.

Edited by JG51_Beazil
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Really? The entire post is about the reds not capable of making shit

 

Interesting  analisy

 

:)

 

(Sorry geramos i wants start with a bit of salt) but i only do for try "reconduce my proposal" 

 

As someone says here... all can be "solved" learning new "muscular memory" for moviments , i think all can agree in to many red planes have more sensitive controls and is more easy go blackout ( is logical, have a base and nothing to do with BIAS or any of this "shits" ) simply is a fact.  

 

The point i try to add is , propose some ideas for increase feedback for pilots  ( breathing for example ) this inpuds can help pilot to be more conscient about her energy state. The aproximation i try do is, i imagine ( im sure JG300Faucon have the real experience about it, and maybe he can add something more precise ) , pilot only handling control have a " feedback" about forces involvend on plane... and when have to do a maneuvor, can calibrate with precission , effort apply because in all moment have feedback about gs over plane. Maybe im wrong.

Thx in advance Faucon ( i belive your plane have a mecanic controls and no servos )

 

Thinking about it... one interesting question is..... u really can in a flat turn reach blackout with no phisic fatige?  IRL u can feel phisic factors  in your body before blackout, i mean when u end turn the effort apply by pilot is the same that was on start? The pilot IRL are more awardness than here about limit of her gs tolerance? ... all this feedback are info for manage situation, the phisic effort is on game simulated, but i think  can be more complex and helpful.

In game all go very fast... some planes like yak9 have a bit better reactions ( fw and bfs ) others have hughe advantage due g-suit . I think for more sensitive planes becomes great help , and for the rest be less, but for all be good.

 

PD

On game for made a moviment, u move along X,Y  points of your stick, allways with same effort, allways for move your stick to concrete ( X,Y) position u need do exactly same moviment  and effort, gs enviroment dont are apply  on your stick or body, only in your (virtual) plane/pilot. The point is traslate better to you, what is happening on game,  simulating some "forcefeedback" at level of stick response, for example devloping physical effects over pilot, and maybe adding  more sounds to plane when gs forces are increasing.

.

 

Edited by HRc_Tumu
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In terms of feedback for the player one thing they could add is an auditory ques I've been encountering in CLOD video footage. The planes in that creek as you put them into hard turns and the frame starts bending.

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7 hours ago, -SF-Disarray said:

 The planes in that creek as you put them into hard turns and the frame starts bending.

 

Oh please, no......:(

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Is that not something that a plane would do in a hard turn? It kind of seems like a thing that would happen.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2020 at 1:22 PM, -SF-Disarray said:

I imagine there is a way to simulate physical strength of the pilot in game Something like putting a top end speed for change of angle of control surfaces to X degrees per second modulated by current airspeed of the plane; some big aeronautics nerd could supply the math to make it realistic or plausible. That in might mitigate some of the strangeness in the flight model like the floppy planes and some of the G force issues.

they need stick forces in game, yes please. could eliminate some of the UFO flight models...especially planes with smaller control surfaces or larger aircraft. 

Edited by gimpy117
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19 hours ago, -SF-Disarray said:

Is that not something that a plane would do in a hard turn? It kind of seems like a thing that would happen.

 

It's a very gamey thing originally from - I think - MS CFS3.  Lord knows what Oleg was thinking with CLoD but with fifteen hundred to two thousand horse power worth of internal combustion engine upfront,  what do you think the pilot is hearing?

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This "G is Biased " topic is getting annoying guys... 

There is no bias for no side with this. I heared it now both sides. Wehraboos and Alliedtards.

Complainings are basically the same, always is in short speech "This G system is making fly Germans harder and unfair or killing Red side" and more similar words i won't bother to add.

 

What i can appreciate always is the lack of a video with the maneuver wich they are trying to perform and how they are permorming it and nothing much else when you are not flying planes with G-Suit wich gives you a sustantial advantage in combat, like IRL as well. 

 

Off course, there is a sensation of Allied planes "weaker" to the G, but i can guarantee its all psicological rather than a fact. Why? Usually the allied planes have better authority in his elevator for the initial turns. And that its all.

 

A day i was discussing this with a friend wich believed this and we did a pretty simple and fast test wich solved and ended the discussion: We grabbed the 109G-14 and the Spitfire IX and we did a "comparative" test. There is "-" because there is no difference at all when you the same turns in the same speeds, and same results when you apply tu much G suddenly and the same results when one applies the same G as well but with beign less agressive, because in the end, you cannot feel what the pilot is feeling even with that weird G-Meter.

 

 

To end, yes, the G-Model should have a recheck in the way how the body is responses to the rate of onset seems to be little bit to much, but i could be wrong since i'm not an expert on the human body.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

It's a very gamey thing originally from - I think - MS CFS3.

You can most certainly hear the stress on the airframe by pulling g‘s. It depends however on the type of aircraft if and what sound you hear. Wooden aircraft with canvas covered airfoils usually are rather quiet, as the engine noise and the slipstream cancels out much of those lower noises. According to Eric Brown, the A6m Zero however sounds like bending a Pringles box in maneuvers. The all metal glider Pilatus PC12 (B4) makes exactly those sounds, even in the heavily reinforced aerobatic configuration. Pull 3+ g‘s and it goes *blonk blonk blonk* until you reached max. g‘s you intended to pull. Release the stick, same noises as the aluminum skin „unfolds“.

 

A Spitfire flown in careful manner will not produce any audio cues in that way, but if you pull 6+ g‘s you certainly hear the airframe talking.

 

Any metal stressed skin hull will make noises when you bend it. The question is just if you can hear it through the wall of noise produced by engine, prop and slipstream. Often enough, you can hear the slight thundering of turbulences of near stall echoing in the airframe, when you can feel it on the stick as well.

Edited by ZachariasX
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I suppose a consideration could be made for things that are more felt than heard. Sitting in a desk chair I imagine you miss out on a lot of the intuitive flying stuff you'd get from sitting in the pilot's seat. I know it is the case for driving sims and real life cars. Because we are largely limited to what we can see and what we can hear in game the question becomes should what can be felt get shifted into one of the categories we can use, and if so which one? More feedback for the player isn't a bad thing to my mind if that is feedback that you would get in some way in the situation that is being simulated.

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On 7/27/2020 at 12:42 AM, MigSu said:

this is also a business and needs both sydes to works, so if one is affected also the other one will be.

grafik.thumb.png.8418c7bc50e9abe64eab5b69ad387e2f.png

As you can see: Blue pilots are punished enough with losing the war in every WW2 TV documentation 😄 In documentation both sides not working same either.

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On 7/30/2020 at 5:08 PM, GOA_Karaya_VR said:

 

'' El que mucho habla, poco sabe'' 

 

Bring to us your visual test for validate your point, you are making to bla bla bla.. Man, share with us a test ! this is it.

 

Leave the '' Red players are leaving the game cause the game are in favor of Lw '' ..

 

Show us your evidence in a video, and stop this Drama.

He doesn´t need to show you any proof of what he is trying to explain. I think you just need a more open mind to understand him.

Basically, what I interpret from what Tumu said is that in a sim, tipically you do not have sensorial feed back in relationship to many things. Mainly just visual. Only if you had force feed back you have some knowledge of how much resistance is in your plane joy (connected to your elevators).

In real life, at low speed you can move the stick with ease. With speed, you are limited if, for instance, you try to bring the stick back into your lap (pulling). All of this is something that you can feel it in your arms; the resistance, the force you need to apply....

In a sim you do not have this feedback. You pull the same in your joystick (the one at your home, your saitek, virpil, warthog etc...) regardless of the airplane speed. Obviously, this is then transformed in the sim stick that limit how much movement is applied. Your "sim stick" is limited as the real one but you don´t feel it. For example, if you go fast and you pull in your home stick a good length back, you are doing it effortlessly, but your virtual avatar would be grunting and doing heavy lift to achieve it. Again, you don´t feel it.

The net effect is that with this implementation of the G forces you don´t have enough sensorial information to manage your Gs. Obviously is a matter, as Redkestrel has said, to relearn your movements and achieve the correct muscle memory. Still very tricky with some airplanes. Specially red ones with good elevator authority. You can get into blackout very easy in a spit unless you are very carefull with your stick. Practicsing helps but if the plane was that sensitive in RL I am sure it would have been grounded to rebalance the controls (But note that the plane controls are well balance in the sim. It is how we interact with them through our limited hardware).

What he said about the blues, specially the 109, is that by having a more limited authority in elevators it gives it a more gradual onset of G forces. In essence, the 109 seems to be better prepared to deal with the lack of sensorial feedback.

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23 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

We need a new force feedback joystick on the market.  I use an old MSFF2 joystick and the JetSeat with SimShaker software.

 

Check out the force feedback seat and SimShaker software below:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/128-simshaker/

 

https://simshaker.com/guides/jetpad/

 

 

 

This is a big game changer!! I added some bass shakers to my seat and am running SimShaker Wings software. You can start to feel the wing buffet of the stall and high AoA maneuvers and have a better idea of what the aircraft is doing instead of a straight visual / audio cue. I used to G-Loc in Spits fairly often but find I can fly the edge better with actual tactile feel from the bass shakers. Well worth the cost of entry. Combined with VR, oh man. What a great experience.  

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8 minutes ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

 

This is a big game changer!! I added some bass shakers to my seat and am running SimShaker Wings software. You can start to feel the wing buffet of the stall and high AoA maneuvers and have a better idea of what the aircraft is doing instead of a straight visual / audio cue. I used to G-Loc in Spits fairly often but find I can fly the edge better with actual tactile feel from the bass shakers. Well worth the cost of entry. Combined with VR, oh man. What a great experience.  

Good for you :)

I don't use the bass shakers, just simply the JetSeat, but yes, feedback through the seat gives a whole new dimension to the simulation and combined with a force feedback joystick and a VR headset (I use a Pimax 5k+) it is brilliant!  The more feedback the better.  I also like the sound of the airframe stress in hard maneuvering in flight in CloD/Blitz/Desert Wings and wish we had that sort of feedback in IL-2 GB.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

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I'm sure the Jetseat works better then a few bass shakers but I agree. Any and all tactile/haptic feedback improves the flight experience and can help us with situational awareness of what the airframe is doing. 

 

Now if only we'd see Thrustmaster/VKB/VPC introducing force feedback into their hotas setups. 

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20 hours ago, HR_Zunzun said:

 

He doesn´t need to show you any proof of what he is trying to explain. I think you just need a more open mind to understand him.

😄

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