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Nerfection

Weird graphical glitches/double vision on Valve Index

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Hello all,

I've recently got a valve index, mostly to play Il2 and half life, and while the latter runs like a dream, I am getting weird graphical glitches in IL2, even after I've gone through the forums here to try out the various suggestions for making it run smoother/better.

The main issues are: when I'm near the ground the leading edges of wings flicker, and double, almost seeming to warp shape. This seems to happen regardless of grass, shadow, AA, or HDR settings. Also, when other aircraft are moving laterally across my vision, they slightly flicker, and seem to have a solid main shape, with a translucent ghost just in front or behind them. I have my IPD set up correctly, so it's not that.

Any suggestions or similar experiences would be great. Thanks all.

Nerf

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Posted (edited)

That may be graphical artifacts from reprojection or asynchronous time warp . If your rig can't put out the full framerate, it drops to half that, and uses an algorithm to guestimate an in-between frame to bring the overall rate back up and reduce motion sickness. The good news it it helps maintain framerate, the downside is it results in visual artifacts like what you described.

I use FPSVR to monitor my frame time for both CPU and GPU, then drop my settings until I can maintain my target without dropping into reprojection during heavy loading. This game is very demanding in VR, especially if you're pushing a lot of pixels like the Index needs. I ended up dropping my target framerate to 90fps to avoid reprojection.

edit: check out this thread on settings and advice for and Index user.

 

Edited by gascan
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Hi Gascan,

Thanks for the reply. I tried what you said, and i think it is due to fps drop. I've tried dropping my target fps to 80,  and all my ingame settings to minimum just about, and it keeps happening. I have what I thought was a strong system for VR, so I don't really know where to go from here.

Spec:
i9 9900k turbo'd up to 5Ghz
GTX 2080 super (a bit overclocked, but not too much)

16GB DDR4 3466Mhz RAM
and the game files are all on SSD

It seems to be mostly the ground and other aircraft that tank the fps.

Any ideas? 

Thank you again

 

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Purchase fpsVR (a small cost). It will show a frame time graph telling you which component is slow -- CPU or GPU. For a consistent 80 FPS, you need frame times under 12.5ms (for 90 FPS you need < 11ms, etc). Once you know if it's the CPU or the GPU at fault, you can adjust from there.

 

To be honest, with a 9900K and a 2080 Super I would expect you'd be fine with fairly high settings. Check your SteamVR supersample. Unlike other games you don't just want to crank this value. Around 120% is the sweet spot between performance and graphical fidelity, and in fact increasing the supersampling might make the game look better but it makes your spotting worse because it smushes pixels together, and you need those pixels to spot contacts.

 

The other possible culprit is MSAA, it's much more taxing than FXAA, so you might need to drop down for VR use. But you said you'd already reduced a bunch of settings, so maybe you did that. I'd expect you to get a solid 80 FPS with the Balanced or High preset, so maybe something weird is going on. Again though, fpsVR will help you pinpoint if it's CPU or GPU that's the bottleneck.

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Okay,


Thank you both for your help.

 

I tried turning motion smoothing off, which maybe helped a little, but I'm not sure.


I've now tried using fpsVR and I'm not really sure what it's telling me. Both my CPU and GPU are getting times around 11ms consistently. My SteamVRSS is set up to be 120% in my steamVR settings, but fpsVR is showing it to be 140% in game, which is odd. My fps counter stays around 70-80fps during flight and fighting, in spite of neither my GPU, CPU, or RAM being at 100% usage (usually around 60%). I am getting a high reprojection ratio percentage, though - up to around 40%.

I've not been using MSAA, as I read it would tank FPS, and the rest of my settings are on the low side, other than clouds, which I read need to be on high.

 

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For the SS, it runs as a multiplier. You probably have 120 set for both the headset and the game. Both are settings found in steamvr. 

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23 hours ago, Nerfection said:

I tried turning motion smoothing off, which maybe helped a little, but I'm not sure.


I've now tried using fpsVR and I'm not really sure what it's telling me. Both my CPU and GPU are getting times around 11ms consistently. My SteamVRSS is set up to be 120% in my steamVR settings, but fpsVR is showing it to be 140% in game, which is odd. My fps counter stays around 70-80fps during flight and fighting, in spite of neither my GPU, CPU, or RAM being at 100% usage (usually around 60%). I am getting a high reprojection ratio percentage, though - up to around 40%.

I've not been using MSAA, as I read it would tank FPS, and the rest of my settings are on the low side, other than clouds, which I read need to be on high.

 

 

CPU time at 11ms is a problem. With that rig it should be more like 6-7ms, maybe spiking up to 9 or so. Have you overclocked the 9900K? You need to, at a minimum, switch on all-core boost so all the cores can turbo up to their default maximum. Depending on motherboard it can be called "multicore enhancement". Looking at the CPU usage in windows is not helpful because IL2 has a "hot thread" that limits overall performance (so while other threads are idle, bringing down the "average CPU usage", that one thread is the bottleneck). You need fast single-thread speed on the CPU for best performance. But the 9900K is a strong chip so it should do fine.

 

And as the other poster said, you need to fix your Supersample, get back to 120% to start with.

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Please also remember to disable any AVX offset. Even if you overclock, if you haven't disabled the AVX offset the game will run with the handbrake pulled.

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On 7/24/2020 at 3:26 PM, Alonzo said:

 

CPU time at 11ms is a problem. With that rig it should be more like 6-7ms, maybe spiking up to 9 or so. Have you overclocked the 9900K?

 

Well, OC'd up to just over 5Ghz with multicore enhancement on I'm getting an average of 11-14ms, with regular spikes of 18-20, and lows of 7-9, that's with the steam SS set down to 120%

19 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Please also remember to disable any AVX offset. Even if you overclock, if you haven't disabled the AVX offset the game will run with the handbrake pulled.


I thought that AVX offset was set as 0 by default? I don't know where to go about checking whether this is on or not. I've poked around BIOS and not found a relevant setting.

I feel like I'm slowly going mad, not knowing why  it's not working better. I specifically got VR for playing IL2, and my current set up for running said VR. 

Again, thank you all for your suggestions and help.

Nerf

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41 minutes ago, Nerfection said:

 

Well, OC'd up to just over 5Ghz with multicore enhancement on I'm getting an average of 11-14ms, with regular spikes of 18-20, and lows of 7-9, that's with the steam SS set down to 120%


I thought that AVX offset was set as 0 by default? I don't know where to go about checking whether this is on or not. I've poked around BIOS and not found a relevant setting.

I feel like I'm slowly going mad, not knowing why  it's not working better. I specifically got VR for playing IL2, and my current set up for running said VR. 

Again, thank you all for your suggestions and help.

Nerf

 

I guess it can depend on the particular motherboard, but usually AVX by default is enabled, I know it was on mine I believe.

Should be in your CPU settings in the bios.

Are you overclocking each core? On the 9900k cores 3-8 typically default to 3.6 GHz. IL-2 will move the cpu load around to each core individually.

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On 7/25/2020 at 1:15 PM, Nerfection said:

Well, OC'd up to just over 5Ghz with multicore enhancement on I'm getting an average of 11-14ms, with regular spikes of 18-20, and lows of 7-9, that's with the steam SS set down to 120%


I thought that AVX offset was set as 0 by default? I don't know where to go about checking whether this is on or not. I've poked around BIOS and not found a relevant setting.

 

Fix one thing at a time, CPU then GPU. Supersample has to do with GPU frame time, and it sounds like you have a CPU frame time problem.

 

We're *just* talking about the CPU time first. With your processor, that should be around 6-7ms. If it's 11-14ms CPU frame time, something is very wrong. Monitor your actual CPU clock speed while playing, using something like CPU-Z or some other tool. Are you getting the 5ghz? What other junk d'you have running on the machine?

 

Fix the CPU frame times first, then think about GPU frame times.

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Posted (edited)

 Hi all again,

All my cores are synced, and are boosted up to 5Ghz (monitored with CPU-Z). I've checked that my AVX ratio is 0. There's nothing else running during gameplay other than steam, CPU-Z, Chrome,  and MSI afterburner. The CPU frame time is now around 7-9, on average.

Lowering the target refresh rate in Steam VR helps a bit, but in dogfights I'm still get blurry/ghosting planes, especially when they are moving laterally across my vision.

 

Edited by Nerfection

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Is your RAM definitely running at 3466 ? Use CPU-Z to check (it will report half the mhz, since it's DDR ram). If it's not at 3466 you might need to enable XMP in BIOS to access that speed. Idaho (a Rift S pilot) had problems with smearing in dogfights and fixed it by getting his RAM running faster.

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15 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Is your RAM definitely running at 3466 ? Use CPU-Z to check (it will report half the mhz, since it's DDR ram). If it's not at 3466 you might need to enable XMP in BIOS to access that speed. Idaho (a Rift S pilot) had problems with smearing in dogfights and fixed it by getting his RAM running faster.

Hmmm. CPU-Z reports the NB freq as just over 4300mhz and the DRAM freq. as being around 1069mhz (though it jumps about a bit). I might try fiddling with the XMP, then.

Thanks!

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6 hours ago, Nerfection said:

Hmmm. CPU-Z reports the NB freq as just over 4300mhz and the DRAM freq. as being around 1069mhz (though it jumps about a bit). I might try fiddling with the XMP, then.

Thanks!

 

Yep, sounds like the RAM isn't set to XMP 3466. If you want to tune even further, you can push the North Bridge (= "ring ratio" = "uncore ratio" = "uncore") higher than 4.3ghz -- on my 8086K I have mine at 4.6ghz and it's fine. @dburne is one of our resident 9900K tuning experts, he might have some more comments.

 

But yeah, if the only thing you do is enable XMP, that'll probably be enough to fix the issue.

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10 hours ago, Nerfection said:

Hmmm. CPU-Z reports the NB freq as just over 4300mhz and the DRAM freq. as being around 1069mhz (though it jumps about a bit). I might try fiddling with the XMP, then.

Thanks!

 

Yes as Alonzo mentioned, definitely check and set your ram in the bios to it's XMP profile.

If it does not have a profile ( which it should) you will need to manually set the speed.

Everything else sounds pretty solid especially if you have all cores boosting to 5.0 GHz.

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