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Atlantia39

Enemy Plane AI...

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Seems most dogfights devolve into basic turnfests...deflection shooting.

 

Any way to improve?

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They have been working on AI and the improvements are definitely noticeable compared to a year or so ago.  Still a way to go.  

 

The AI will do vertical maneuvers at altitude, but once altitude is lost (inevitable) they no longer have the energy needed and revert to turning.  In real life pilots would try to disengage before things got to this point.  With the AI you have unrealistic outcomes for multiple reasons:

1. The AI has no survival instinct and will therefore continue to engage to the death (or at a minimum for far too long)

2. The AI sees everything, so not only does it engage to the death it never loses track either.  In real life pilots frequently simply lost track of each other, turned around and went home.

 

This makes the fights much more prolonged than most real WWII combats.  Now combine this with the inevitable loss in altitude and you have a fight to the death that almost must eventually devolve into a low altitude turn fest.

 

German outcomes are particularly affected.  German tactics relied far more heavily on hit and run, leave when you have lost the advantage (not when your aircraft has been reduced to a smoking heap).  German aircraft were optimized for this sort of fight.  Result is Germans take a lot more losses than they did historically because the AI is not using the aircraft or the situation properly.  

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31 minutes ago, Atlantia39 said:

Any way to improve?

 

The AI is now much better at energy fighting than it used to be - but as Pat says, once it's on the deck it runs out of options and goes into the old constant-turning routine. The way to see the AI at its best is simply to set the combats at a greater height. A nice example is to take something like a 190a8 and fight against a P-38 at 4,000 m. The AI will hold energy quite well in such a combat.

 

To be fair to the AI, real-life pilot accounts of combat at low level often describe aircraft getting into extended circling fights until one aircraft managed to draw round onto the other's tail.

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Even being a flight lead, the AI options seem very limited. If I am not a lead, there is no way to regroup or have the AI give an update on where to regroup after ground attack or air to air combat. Instead you have to fly around and hope you can find them if separated. Also, it is hard to tell AI to break off on escort missions. Many times they will go fight enemy bombers or ground attack planes (especially prevalent in the PWCG). When I'm the leader, I want them to stay on me and the mission and break off when I tell them to. 

In short, is there a chance to improve how to control friendly AI and maybe add some radio commands to catch up with them? 

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AI is being worked on, it's already improved and will keep improving over time.

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Looking forward to them not deserting me without so much as a “Repeat Please” to go off chasing distant contacts. 

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Or them not following you to go check a distant contact....so you show up and meet some fighters and get wrecked.

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In a lot of historical accounts fighters get separated pretty quickly and then retreat individually (as they don't want to be vulnerable - which a separated aircraft tends to be). I get the impression that some fights were prolonged (if the aircraft stayed engaged)... but if they disengaged from each other they tended to head home (Not always of course...)

 

But there are also accounts of entire formations not engaging the enemy and both formations trying to out-climb each other for an advantage etc. So coordinated action is definitely a thing before a fight. I'm not sure how often regrouping happened though.

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I have a new gaming PC on its way and thought about trying Il-2 again. I wonder if AI and encounter ratio are still bad. One thing that made me give up on Il-2 was it’s absolutely terrible encounter ratio and AI that always attacks you, rather than consider its odds first. It’s especially bad when I get jumped on every bomber mission, and the enemy always knows where I am, even from miles away. Is it still the same? It’s really odd as the tiny dev team behind WOFF made their AI absolutely amazing, while such a big budget project didn’t.

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So is the AI always attacking you and always knowing where you are not an issue anymore?

 

Also, how much does using PWCG help?

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 The AI in looks like it just flies in circles, every time. Not even a basic rolling scissors. Does the AI actually do anything else?

 

In ROF, BOB, and the new Tobruk.

 

 

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The short answer is yes. Some will say it has been improved and if so it’s negligible. AI pilots are super human who get more out of their plane than you ever could and they never miss. Bomber gunners use sniper rifles. IMHO it’s the game’s biggest flaw. It needs a total rework which I think the developers can not afford. 
Have a nice and safe day. 
Out!

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"Is AI still bad?"

 

Yes.

 

Will be improvements made over the time? I hope so.

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if its 1v1 the AI still do the circle thing sometime it brake and dive other times it just keep circling and it get very annoying , but 3v3 and up it's a alright, in career mod i think it's better.

this is what i think, you may have other opinion.

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I like ai in coop. You get bounced they do surprise you. As long as your mates are human I have a lot good things to say. 
But once you are committed in a dogfight it goes in everlasting left turns

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, smink1701 said:

The short answer is yes. Some will say it has been improved and if so it’s negligible. AI pilots are super human who get more out of their plane than you ever could and they never miss. Bomber gunners use sniper rifles. IMHO it’s the game’s biggest flaw. It needs a total rework which I think the developers can not afford. 
Have a nice and safe day. 
Out!


As I said, it can’t be a resource thing. WOFF team is just two or three people IIRC, and they delivered amazing AI and alive world in which other planes are flying around the map, conducting their own missions and everything feels authentic. And all that on a modded CFS engine. 
 

How card can it be to make the AI at least not pursue you from miles away?

 

 

It’s such a shame that it’s still not fixed.

Edited by Ekaton
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What is happening NOW with tha AI with planes (all ranks, from novice to ace) in the latest updates? It seems impossible that they down you or downs others plane. in a Dogfight!!

 

Try this simple test: 1 Vs 1 one on one quick mission (ACE LEVEL), 5 minutes without touching stick... and the enemy is unable to hit you, even lost your sight in a simple pursuit. This is not realistic.

 

Another simple test: 8 VS 8 planes, ACE level, they start turning and dancing BUT in 15 minutes no planes are downed, no hits, no count.... it seems SUPER easy to down now an AI enemy plane, this seems totally unrealistic to me, to the point that no air-air mission or campaigns represents any challenge to me. Come on, even in a straight flight the enemy its very clumsy.

 

Nobody noticed that?

 

Please DEV´s any opinion or some words about it? I remember in the past that the enemy planes, at leas, could pursuit and shoot you...

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I know this has probably been beaten to death... but the AI really needs some improvement across the board but especially friendly AI.  No matter what you change their skill level to in QMB, they are a bunch of useless aerial targets for the enemy AI and can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn even if an enemy AI happens to fly directly in front of them.  The enemy AI has improved some with each update but it seems like friendly AI has not at all.  

 

Hopefully this will get better....

 

 

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But the question some are asking is , do the AI still all turn fight regardless of plane type and eventually get locked in a circle turn?

 

😀

FYI all updates are very much appreciated, just saying...

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1 hour ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

But the question some are asking is , do the AI still all turn fight regardless of plane type and eventually get locked in a circle turn?

Then ‘some’ must get off their backsides, fire up the game and find out.

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5 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Then ‘some’ must get off their backsides, fire up the game and find out.

I posted this is 4.009 update discussion , I did not move it here the moderator did, so it's a valid question.

also, soon as opportunity comes I will ..

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