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Sybreed

Would a engine upgrade be in the cards?

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I think IL-2 looks great and has a very consistent style across the whole of the sim which definitely goes a big way towards making it look good. It does, however, not always look as good as some of the latest stuff we've seen from other sims. This kind of thing happened before in reverse. When IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad came out in 2013 it looked quite a bit better than that other sim which was mostly in version 1.5 at the time.

 

I think we're going to see a couple of thing happen.

 

1) The deferred shading upgrade was a subtle yet impressive change to the core graphics technology. 1CGS went with a conservative approach on this by upgrading the shading system, making a few new features, but ultimately focusing on making sure that the sim looked the same as before or better in a few places. They have said in recent developer updates that the DS update is the start and it will let them do more graphical improvements because of the new method. I think it may be an opportunity for them to tweak the visuals connected to the weather system. More sophisticated atmospheric shading and colouring could have some spectacular visual impacts.

 

These types of upgrades could easily go for years more.

 

2) On the subject of a new engine. I get the sense that Jason, in our interview, was talking about that more because of new systems they want to bring in. Carrier landings for example may require a big change to the the engine - and that may be the appropriate time to write in some changes to the way things work. I do hope, and this may be difficult, that they can somehow bring the current legacy along with them in doing all of that. It may not be possible but I can wish.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2020 at 10:51 PM, Sybreed said:

surprisingly, one said he felt IL-2 is starting to look dated

 

Some parts do, I will agree somewhat and I think that was the point of moving to a deferred renderer with 4.006 - eventually new/updated shaders will be introduced (which account for a lot of the bling you are seeing in DCS). So I guess there you have it - the graphics engine has been upgraded - but the content hasn't yet been adapted.

Edited by Firdimigdi
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Its not dated, but I'd like an engine upgrade to less washed out graphics (that also make spotting so much harder). Il-2 1946 had quite sharp maps, altough with less resolution probably, but the color distortion and lighting seemed to be slightly better for the eyes.

 

thx, I think you said in clearer words what I think could be improved graphics wise. I don't know if that's a huge investment time wise, but I would also appreciate the maps looking less washed.

 

Also, going back to the engine upgrade discussion. One other benefit other than the graphics are the capabilities of the engine. How many times have we heard that we can't have B-17s because the current engine can't handle them? There could also be a boost to performance even with huge battles. My FPS go from 90 to 50-55 (that feels like 20-30 honestly) in busy spots on career maps! 

Edited by Sybreed

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I'm looking at what you bought and what I bought and I see that you are flying on maps, for free, that I had to pay for. But you're a good guy and that's fine with me. :)

 

I'm asking you MP guys to return the favour and finance a free BoN maps for us SP guys to fly offline.

 

Thank you.

Don't assume things you can't know for sure, I bought Stalingrad, Kuban, and Moscow on Steam - also I'm not a big fan of this line of argumentation cause it seems really close to ad personam even when ignoring all your comments from your later posts ;) Furthermore, you make it sound like all of people playing MP decide to skimp out on expansions just so they can play using inferior planes which neither me nor you have enough data on to make such definitive statements. 

Anyway,  as said above if it is such a deal breaker to you, I would seriously consider doing some flying on MP - there are some servers / missions with AI targets (I think there are also some coop servers running) but if you don't want to buy BoN and refuse to play the on the map the way it is possible with how the game is designed then hey, it's your choice and not my business ^^

I definitely wouldn't mind exclusive SP maps because if I were to be honest I don't care that much about maps but rather about different planes and how they perform against each other.  

Edited by desolunatic

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6 hours ago, Asgar said:

okay... honest question... are you mentally handicapped?? you finance shit, you buy stuff for yourself to enjoy, just like everybody else. 

Do you have to take him seriously in all things? 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Do you have to take him seriously in all things? 

 

No he needs to drag this community down to Call of Duty/Fortnite levels.

 

At least he didn't call him a r3ta*d. I guess we don't stoop that low yet. 😄

Edited by Motherbrain
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8 hours ago, Asgar said:

okay... honest question... are you mentally handicapped??

 

 

I'm Canadian, does that count? :cool:

 

8 hours ago, Asgar said:

you finance shit, you buy stuff for yourself to enjoy, just like everybody else. 

 

Yeah, I buy stuff. I get what I pay for and nothing else. You're telling me the MP guys should get what they pay for and what I pay for as well, even though they didn't pay for it. 

 

I want free maps as well. I think the MP guys owe the SP guys a map.  

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1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

I'm Canadian, does that count? :cool:

Don’t listen to that badboy. We love you

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If the module maps are to be free to the MP crowd that's one thing. But to not even be willing to sell collectors maps just because they MP crowd won't get them for free is just flat out ridiculous. 

 

As an SP flyer, I have to pay $115Cdn. to fly on the BoN map, but the MP guy who maybe just bought BoS on sale for $15 gets it for free, and not only that, but must get it for free lest there be outrage?

 

I'm sorry, but that's science fiction.

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1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

If the module maps are to be free to the MP crowd that's one thing. But to not even be willing to sell collectors maps just because they MP crowd won't get them for free is just flat out ridiculous. 

 

As an SP flyer, I have to pay $115Cdn. to fly on the BoN map, but the MP guy who maybe just bought BoS on sale for $15 gets it for free, and not only that, but must get it for free lest there be outrage?

 

I'm sorry, but that's science fiction.

Worse they bought bobp.  Get bon for free and better ac to go with it. 
I think the devs have a marked in sp collector maps. If their map maker is available. I find that pretty appealing flying Hurricanes Spits in early western theatre 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Worse they bought bobp.  Get bon for free and better ac to go with it. 
I think the devs have a marked in sp collector maps. If their map maker is available. I find that pretty appealing flying Hurricanes Spits in early western theatre 

 

More maps is good maps!

 

Make nice HD collectors maps. I'll buy 'em. I buy DCS maps on day one. With the Syria map out soon it will be about $300 of my cash in their pocket just for maps. If IL2 doesn't want my map money, there are others who are happy to take it.

 

And while DCS has my $300 of map money, I'm being told that people who fly MP here have to get all the maps for free just so their feelers don't get hurt, and collectors maps are not allowed to be made also because their feelers might get hurt. I gotta tell ya, that **** is just weird.

Edited by CanadaOne

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

As an SP flyer, I have to pay $115Cdn. to fly on the BoN map, but the MP guy who maybe just bought BoS on sale for $15 gets it for free, and not only that, but must get it for free lest there be outrage?

 

I'm sorry, but that's science fiction.

 

MP requires a certain number of players to populate the servers and create an enjoyable experience. For a game with a relatively small playerbase, anything that prevents people from playing together is a significant problem. Splitting the playerbase by map into small groups that cannot interact makes it more difficult to find a multiplayer match.

 

The person that bought BoS for $15 will make the game better by serving as an MP target for other players over Normandy. Plus, that player can get his or her first taste of MP and enjoy the game.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
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Just now, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

MP requires a certain number of players to populate the servers and create an enjoyable experience. For a game with a relatively small playerbase, anything that prevents people from playing together is a significant problem. Splitting the playerbase by map into small groups that cannot interact makes it more difficult to find a multiplayer match.

 

The person who bought BoS for $15 will make the game better by serving as an MP target for other players over Normandy. Plus, that player can get their first taste of MP and enjoy the game.

 

You make an excellent point and I appreciate you making it in such a civil manner. 

 

If that is the case, so be it. But I cannot see how it should preclude the making of collectors maps. As mentioned, I shelled out, as many many others did, hundred of dollars for maps at "the other sim". Now, colour me naive, but I'm thinking the IL2 boys would like a taste o' that cash. And just as the BOS-only MP player might make it a better game, I submit that my $300, and the $300 from many others, going into the IL2 bank account would make it a better game as well.

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12 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

You make an excellent point and I appreciate you making it in such a civil manner. 

 

If that is the case, so be it. But I cannot see how it should preclude the making of collectors maps. As mentioned, I shelled out, as many many others did, hundred of dollars for maps at "the other sim". Now, colour me naive, but I'm thinking the IL2 boys would like a taste o' that cash. And just as the BOS-only MP player might make it a better game, I submit that my $300, and the $300 from many others, going into the IL2 bank account would make it a better game as well.


I’m pretty sure the reason that they’re not doing collector maps is because they tried that in RoF and not enough people bought the map.

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DCS makes maps and lots of people buy maps. Lots and lots of people buy maps. And they keep making maps and lots and lots of people keep buying those maps.

 

$300 of my cash in their pocket just for maps.

 

Maps sell. 

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No, but the guy currently running the show is the same guy who created a map in RoF that did not sell.  Maybe talk to him.

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He is free to speak as he sees fit. All I know is maps sell. 

 

They sell in DCS, and entire companies are devoted to maps and scenery for flightsims and they're obviously making money because they're still making maps and scenery.  Lots and lots and lots of maps and scenery. And Il2 does not exist in a vacuum apart from all other flightsims. People who fly IL2 probably also fly, and have also flown, lots of other sims.

 

Maps sell. 

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I’m more interested in better gameplay than new maps or aircraft.  

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2 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I’m more interested in better gameplay than new maps or aircraft.  

 

It's people like you that cause unrest. :angry:

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9 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

It's people like you that cause unrest. :angry:

CanadaOne, the longer I look at this thread the more I'm convinced I got trolled big style, hats off to you, haven't happened to me on web in a long time. o7

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17 minutes ago, desolunatic said:

CanadaOne, the longer I look at this thread the more I'm convinced I got trolled big style, hats off to you, haven't happened to me on web in a long time. o7

 

I'm not much on that logic, really. I find it cheesy. When some people are disagreed with these days and they cannot counter, they just call the other person a troll. 

 

It's a snowflake move, and if you'll notice the signature below... 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I'm not much on that logic, really. I find it cheesy. When some people are disagreed with these days and they cannot counter, they just call the other person a troll. 

 

It's a snowflake move, and if you'll notice the signature below... 

 

See that's the thing - you say that like my reply to you before that didn't happen and I just have no clue if you are serious or not - believe me when I say it now that I didn't mean a single bad thing by saying I got trolled. 

Edited by desolunatic

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2 minutes ago, desolunatic said:

 

See that's the thing - you say that like my reply to you before that didn't happen and I just have no clue if you are serious or not - believe me when I say it now that I didn't mean a single bad thing by saying I got trolled. 

 

The word does carry a pejorative meaning.

 

But if it was not intended as such, apologies are offered. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

The word does carry a pejorative meaning.

 

But if it was not intended as such, apologies are offered. 

No apologies needed, wouldn't be using 'o7' if I meant disrespect. 

Edit:

Also, forgot - I think we've derailed the thread a bit too much from the original topic. 

Edited by desolunatic

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Well, today I learned MPers can play on maps they didn't even buy. I'm completely dumbfounded. Can they also fly the planes provided with the maps as well!?!

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5 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Well, today I learned MPers can play on maps they didn't even buy. I'm completely dumbfounded. Can they also fly the planes provided with the maps as well!?!

 

No.  And they can only use the maps in MP.  It helps keep the MP servers populated.

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2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

No.  And they can only use the maps in MP.  It helps keep the MP servers populated.

 

Okay that's reassuring and I can kind of understand the move there. People want to fly the planes more than anything else so they buy the expansions anyway. Makes sense in a way.

 

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2 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

https://il2sturmovik.com/

 

This isn't RoF.

 

This isn't DCS either.  

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

 

Also, DCS sells a whopping grand total of 3 "soon ...maybe" 4 maps... Out of those currently available 3 maps, only 1 (Persian Gulf) is used by a large amount of players online while the majority still just use the free Caucasus map.  There is no evidence whatsoever "collectors maps" would be a wise business decision for IL-2 to get involved in. 

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5 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I'm Canadian, does that count? :cool:

 

 

Yeah, I buy stuff. I get what I pay for and nothing else. You're telling me the MP guys should get what they pay for and what I pay for as well, even though they didn't pay for it. 

 

I want free maps as well. I think the MP guys owe the SP guys a map.  

 

You do get "free" maps too. In Multiplayer. if you want to use them is up to you though.

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49 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

This isn't DCS either.  

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

 

Also, DCS sells a whopping grand total of 3 "soon ...maybe" 4 maps... Out of those currently available 3 maps, only 1 (Persian Gulf) is used by a large amount of players online while the majority still just use the free Caucasus map.  There is no evidence whatsoever "collectors maps" would be a wise business decision for IL-2 to get involved in. 

 

Agree with you there. I regret buying the Nevada map. Though I believe Syria will sell well. Maps sell if there's content attached to the map as well. Nevada's content was very uninteresting. 

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8 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

DCS makes maps and lots of people buy maps. Lots and lots of people buy maps. And they keep making maps and lots and lots of people keep buying those maps.

 

$300 of my cash in their pocket just for maps.

 

Maps sell. 

The difference is, in GB you get maps with your aircrafts, fitting to your aircraft, in DCS you buy aircrafts only. If you don't buy the maps in DCS, you have nothing to fly on. Or you fly your    WW II aircrafts on the Nevada or Gulf map. Very funny, really.

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7 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

This isn't DCS either.  

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

 

Also, DCS sells a whopping grand total of 3 "soon ...maybe" 4 maps... Out of those currently available 3 maps, only 1 (Persian Gulf) is used by a large amount of players online while the majority still just use the free Caucasus map.  There is no evidence whatsoever "collectors maps" would be a wise business decision for IL-2 to get involved in. 

 

Agreed, this is not DCS. However, taken with the other examples cited, those being companies devoted to flightsim scenery and maps, I see no reason why flightsim maps can and do sell across the board in flightsims, but for some reason would not sell in IL2. Do IL2 players have a map phobia or something?

 

IL2 is a great flightsim, but it is not so disassociated from the rest of the genre that people who fly IL2 would not like the same things as people who fly other flightsims, those things being airplanes and maps. We already know airplanes sell here. Maps would as well.

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Posted (edited)

Mate, chill.

The buisnes model IS diferent.

THIS company Made and sold a stand alone map, in RoF, and it looks as if it didn't worked out.

I guess they have all the info, and they decided not to do it (at least for now).

 

About the MP players getting free stuff... ANY ONE can go to a server and play a map you don't "own", you can too, but if MP crowd is the minority, do you think they are not selling standalone maps because the minority might get pissed?  I asume it's because the Developers think it's not the best idea.

 

On the same thinking thread, a MP only guy "payed/help finance the development" for a dinamic campaign that SP are using, should he get a refound on that wich he does not use?

 

Also I would argue that a guy that gets only BoS and fly on MP, on seen other maps and planes, it's either going to like them and want to buy them for the prety planes and maps, or it's not engaged enough and was never going to buy other stuff, wether maps are free or not.

Edited by =FEW=fernando11
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5 minutes ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

Mate, chill.

 

If I was any more chill, I'd be back in bed. I need coffee.

 

5 minutes ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

The buisnes model IS diferent.

THIS company Made and sold a stand alone map, in RoF, and it looks as if it didn't worked out.

I guess they have all the info, and they decided not to do it (at least for now).

 

About the MP players getting free stuff... ANY ONE can go to a server and play a map you don't "own", you can too, but if MP crowd is the minority, do you think they are not selling standalone maps because the minority might get pissed?  I asume it's because the Developers think it's not the best idea.

 

On the same thinking thread, a MP only guy "payed/help finance the development" for a dinamic campaign that SP are using, should he get a refound on that wich he does not use?

 

Also I would argue that a guy that gets only BoS and fly on MP, on seen other maps and planes, it's either going to like them and want to buy them for the prety planes and maps, or it's not engaged enough and was never going to buy other stuff, wether maps are free or not.

 

I fail to see how it is different. This is a flightsim, and flightsim maps have sold for a long time. Companies have built successful businesses just selling flightsim maps. I don't see what is unique about IL2 that would make payware maps unworkable here while being workable elsewhere. 

 

On the other hand, if IL2 MP requires free stuff to be handed out in order to keep the servers populated, then it seems it's MP that isn't that hot an option.

 

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Posted (edited)

If you create collector planes and a collector map, you can combine them and sell it as a complete module 🤔

 

 Apparently it's not possible to create additional or more detailed maps.

 

 

Edited by 41Sqn_Skipper

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The severe limitation of ai entities is a big bummer(I assume because of the fidelity of the simulation) .  How does Cliffs of Dover Blitz compare?

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23 hours ago, Asgar said:

you can fly ont he BoN map for free, like everyone else... play MP

 

That is a selfish comment which you follow up with abuse.

It's easy to see what CanadaOne is getting at. Anyone that owns one module of Great Battles can fly on ANY of the maps in multiplayer; yet can only fly on the map in the module that they have bought in Single Player. So the multi-player crowd does get 'free stuff' that the SP guy doesn't. 

Now I don't agree with CanadaOne's self-pity over this, it is what it is and may even be a business decision to encourage multiplayer participation, but crap like that doesn't help. 

Why not sell him the map if he wants to buy it? Although personally I would go the other way and remove the maps from multiplayer for people that haven't bought them. The map of any of these modules is an enormous part of the research and development cost, no different from the aircraft in that respect, so why 'throw it away'?

If we want to use a map, then we should bloody well buy the GB module it is in. All of us.

And guess what? There's a load of nice shiny map-specific aircraft that come with it.

 

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