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[LuseKofte 3760]

No, I do not mean with click-pits. I mean a so called “boring“ unpopular plane like a bomber or transport. Even a Recce plane. 
What if I ordered one? Like a HE 115 and financed it with copyrights still owned by 1C . Could I afford it? 
Quality:

Realistic historical autopilot. More realistic bombsight interphase if bomber is chosen. 
777 buildt a bomber for a customer. It has been done. 
What is the price? Funding a airplane not expected to be a commercial success. 
GB got its own niche of quality. Excellent in many ways simpler in other. 
Not a standard I would disagree on knowing the commercial demands. If one forgot those demands for one build. Could it be ordered ?

Edited July 9, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[HubertMeyer 8]

Interesting Question, but I don´t think you will get an adequate answer as this is certainly a business secret. I look forward to the answer

 

Thomas

[RedKestrel 3666]

Short answer: five figures, easily - my wild guess would be $30000 or possibly more. You would probably be able to buy a real plane for the cost. 

There would be two factors to the cost:

1. The direct cost of the labour and overhead necessary to produce it; and

2. The opportunity cost of that labour and overhead.

 

So lets say you hired the engineering department and 3D modelers of 777 to build you a full-fidelity aircraft with all working systems. This would be more work than the standard aircraft. It would take longer than to produce, say, the Pe-2 from Battle of Kuban. You would have to pay the wages, payroll burden, and overhead required for those employees to work , and then in addition pay for any net profits they expected to earn from the work you paid for that those resources are now unable to produce.

 

So, for example, let us say that the cost to 1CGS to develop a single standard aircraft from start to finish (FM, DM, 3D model) is $20000.00. The extra systems you want modeled to high fidelity would be new ground and would require research - let us say it costs $10000.00 to do that. So the aircraft costs 1CGS $30000.00 to develop. I honestly don't think this is an unreasonable estimate given the cost of development, it could easily be lowballing it.

 

But 1C must factor in the money the might have made if instead of working for you, they worked on a game or plane for general appeal. If, for example, they could have made 3 popular fighters in the time it takes them to make one extreme fidelity bomber, and those fighters would have netted them 60000.00 in sales for the same development cost, then if they make the plane for you for you they have essentially lost $300000.00. 

 

 If your time is worth $50.00 an hour and you work for $30.00, every hour you are losing out on 20 dollars. When you are running a business that must turn a profit this is a big deal.

 

Of course they can never be sure how much money they make from any given aircraft, they must assess the likelihood of the aircraft selling well or complimenting their product in such a way that it elevates their brand and increases sales indirectly. So it is a risk to deviate at all from the practices they have carefully built up, tweaked, and researched over all these years.

[LuseKofte 3760]

Well I would like to know if it is possible at all. 
I do not believe I get a price at hand , and not getting to be taken seriously. Because you do not approach such business in full public. 
I am not sure I would but been thinking a long time about it. 

[RedKestrel 3666]

23 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

777 buildt a bomber for a customer. It has been done. 
 

I never knew this - when was this done?

[Mitthrawnuruodo 709]

7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I never knew this - when was this done?

 

Probably referring to this:

 

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/41772-1cgs-announces-ilya-muromets-flight-sim-development/

 

 

[jollyjack 626]

It's a great one, i bought it. Feels like a flying chicken pen. Pity it's not in FC1!

Looks a bit like that new public transport bus in Belgium; 20 meters wide and 3 meters long, so everybody can sit up front.

[AndyJWest 2749]

I suspect the correct answer to the original question ("What is the cost for a full fidelity aircraft?") is "high enough that if you are serious about it, and actually have the sort of funds available to even contemplate it, you can afford to pay someone within the games industry to give a meaningful estimate, rather than looking for guesses on a forum."

[TWC_Target 24]

Be interesting how many would contribute to a go fund me page to own such a collection of code.

 

[RedKestrel 3666]

9 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

Be interesting how many would contribute to a go fund me page to own such a collection of code.

 

Personally I wouldn't touch any kind of video game Gofundme or Kickstarter. They have been, almost universally, total dumpster fires. 

[AndyJWest 2749]

15 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

Be interesting how many would contribute to a go fund me page to own such a collection of code.

 

 

I suspect that having random people 'own the code' (or think they do) is one of the reasons that Jason has already made clear that he isn't interested in crowdfunding.

[Monksilver 244]

30 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

Be interesting how many would contribute to a go fund me page to own such a collection of code.

 

Everyone would  think that because they paid towards it they would have earned the right to say what was built.  Can you imagine the squabbling that would result about which plane to build, what model of that plane etc etc. It would be like rats in a sack. Could be fun to watch though 😄

 

Would be quite funny if after years of in fighting the plane finally delivered turned out to be another version of the BF109.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Monksilver

[LuseKofte 3760]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

I suspect the correct answer to the original question ("What is the cost for a full fidelity aircraft?") is "high enough that if you are serious about it, and actually have the sort of funds available to even contemplate it, you can afford to pay someone within the games industry to give a meaningful estimate, rather than looking for guesses on a forum."

Well I am not sure how serious I could be about this.

I always wondered how much funding needed to get one done. I look at it like just getting a PPL , but knowing myself I soon get fed up flying in circles, and it will end up with all the boats I owned. One get rid of the neucence and workload of owning technical stuff. 

I would probably not spend the money on a module in this game, simply because there are other options comming along other places and FSX got a pretty good B 17. 

But I would like to know if a alternative funding of planes for this brand is available or even possible. 

It is in fact possible to get more collector planes out there if the devs would have a set amount of money they know they get

[Redwo1f 366]

59 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Personally I wouldn't touch any kind of video game Gofundme or Kickstarter. They have been, almost universally, total dumpster fires. 

 

Yes, that is certainly a risk. I contributed to "Battletech" on kickstarter and it worked out, personally - but yes, you do risk your money for nothing (or next to nothing in return).

 

That being said, I have also bought and supported a number of "early access" titles too (if that counts(?)) that I have been very satisfied with:

Starsector, Stormworks Build and Rescue, Avorion, Mech Merc Company, Vox Machinae, etc.  - all of which I don't think would exist otherwise.

[PatrickAWlson 5694]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Personally I wouldn't touch any kind of video game Gofundme or Kickstarter. They have been, almost universally, total dumpster fires. 

 

I did with Kingdom Come Deliverance and could not be happier with the result. But it takes a mindset and the willingness to part with a few bucks.  You may not get anything at all, but if you don't try it might never happen.  For me a historical, medieval RPG was too good to not take the gamble.  Relatively few things would entice me to do that.  

 

Given 1C's track record and my enjoyment of their products I would kick in, even if I really didn't care to much for the end product (not really a bomber guy).  

 

Something to realize about the kind of development that 1C does: the skill sets of modeler, researcher, physicist, and software developer are completely separate skill sets.  You would be lucky to find two of those skills at a professional level in the same person.  So that means there has to be enough work and enough revenue to keep multiple people fed.  

 

I would not go so far as to call bombers a niche, but .... well, they sort of are.  Most people are into fighters and of those who are not most of them are into ground attack.  I know that the bomber pilots are a dedicated lot, but there might not be enough of them to carry a project that is probably much more expensive than even a new fighter (and way more expensive than another 109  ).  I wonder if the Ju52 paid for itself?  I hope so, because I really would like to see more even if I don't fly them that often.

[AndyJWest 2749]

30 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Well I am not sure how serious I could be about this.

I always wondered how much funding needed to get one done. I look at it like just getting a PPL , but knowing myself I soon get fed up flying in circles, and it will end up with all the boats I owned. One get rid of the neucence and workload of owning technical stuff. 

I would probably not spend the money on a module in this game, simply because there are other options comming along other places and FSX got a pretty good B 17. 

But I would like to know if a alternative funding of planes for this brand is available or even possible. 

It is in fact possible to get more collector planes out there if the devs would have a set amount of money they know they get

 

If you want to know whether it is possible, you will have to talk to the developers directly. They aren't going to engage in such discussions on a public forum. And nobody other than the developers is in any position to say what they might be prepared to do. Though I'd suspect that any answer you get from them is likely to be a polite 'not interested' unless your query is very specific both in regards to exactly what you are asking for, and how much you are prepared to pay for it.

[Zooropa_Fly 786]

1 hour ago, Monksilver said:

Everyone would  think that because they paid towards it they would have earned the right to say what was built.  Can you imagine the squabbling that would result about which plane to build, what model of that plane etc etc. It would be like rats in a sack. Could be fun to watch though 😄

 

Would be quite funny if after years of in fighting the plane finally delivered turned out to be another version of the BF109.

 

Just make sure it's not a WW1 crate.

[LuseKofte 3760]

16 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

If you want to know whether it is possible, you will have to talk to the developers directly. They aren't going to engage in such discussions on a public forum. And nobody other than the developers is in any position to say what they might be prepared to do. Though I'd suspect that any answer you get from them is likely to be a polite 'not interested' unless your query is very specific both in regards to exactly what you are asking for, and how much you are prepared to pay for it.

Ye I think your right. But with the speed they develop map and planes. Pretty soon planes might be the moneymaker 

[PatrickAWlson 5694]

7 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Just make sure it's not a WW1 crate.

 

I wouldn't mind  

[BM357_TinMan 129]

You also have to take into consideration that (and please, this is not a criticism of the game), this sim's engine would need significant updates, upgrades and additions to even simulate an a high fidelity aircraft.  This would have to be considered along side the cost of developing the aircraft itself.

[TWC_Target 24]

I remember the first edition of BOS I bought, before it was released, so isn't that along the same lines as crowd funding? Have you put your money down for the next iteration of BOS? Normandy I think it is. It's money on a promise, and as some would say, "I bought it to support the franchise." As the French might say, no diffrance.

  Yes, I sold my first copy and yet here I am again. Where am I to go? War thunder, CFS5?

[Yogiflight 1169]

I don't think the only question can be, how much money it will cost, but even more, how much time, and where do the Devs take it from.

[Jade_Monkey 3920]

4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

There would be two factors to the cost:

1. The direct cost of the labour and overhead necessary to produce it; and

2. The opportunity cost of that labour and overhead.

[...]

But 1C must factor in the money the might have made if instead of working for you, they worked on a game or plane for general appeal. If, for example, they could have made 3 popular fighters in the time it takes them to make one extreme fidelity bomber, and those fighters would have netted them 60000.00 in sales for the same development cost, then if they make the plane for you for you they have essentially lost $300000.00. 

 

This ^^^

 

Also, you would really have to pay a huge premium for them to stop working for the general public and take your order. Their reputation for reliability and continuous turnaround could take a hit and that can be translated into $$$.

[CanadaOne 2028]

I would happily Kickstart for:

 

 - A better mission editor

 - A better QMB

 - A really nice map

[Gambit21 5625]

5 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

 

 - A better mission editor

 

 

Awesome!

Send me $100 and I'll show you the best mission editor that I've ever used.

[CanadaOne 2028]

6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Awesome!

Send me $100 and I'll show you the best mission editor that I've ever used.

 

I use that one already, it's over at that other sim's house. 

 

But if you need $100, I can spot you. 

[Gambit21 5625]

1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I use that one already, it's over at that other sim's house. 

 

But if you need $100, I can spot you. 

 

Bah!

Good one.

Just as I prefer Photoshop to the Windows 98 version of "Paint", I also prefer the editor in BoX

[CanadaOne 2028]

8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Bah!

Good one.

Just as I prefer Photoshop to the Windows 98 version of "Paint", I also prefer the editor in BoX

 

Yes, but you're smarter than I am, and have more patience. 

 

I want a working man's editor, something fun and convenient. If I want something time consuming, inconvenient, and sometimes just downright unpleasant, I'll go to work. 

[Gambit21 5625]

1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

. If I want something time consuming, inconvenient, and sometimes just downright unpleasant, I'll go to work. 

 

You’re a lumberjack and you’re OK.

[CanadaOne 2028]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

You’re a lumberjack and you’re OK.

 

Not in this hot weather. I'm friggin' melting. This is not my kinda weather. I'd pay $50 for a day of -10 right now.

 

Or for a better mission editor.  

[BraveSirRobin 2436]

6 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Could I afford it? 

 

This is a pointless question for the forum.  None of us knows. 

 

You can call Jason, but he'll almost certainly just say that they're not interested.  You probably need to write a really big check just to find out how big a check that you need to write to get the plane that you want.  You might not need to write that first big check if you have connections (like the Russian Military Historical Society).  Do you have connections like that?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter 831]

I imagine that the conversation would need to start along the lines of asking what they have planned after Normandy, and if they were open to commissions between or after projects.

[vipe155 24]

Usually just about anything reasonable can be had for a price.  I would be surprised if 1C turned down producing an aircraft that made sense for the sim and had it's production cost covered, by what do I know?  I mean if total cost was covered by an individual or entity, and the company also made a profit from all sales afterward, it seems like a win-win?

That being said, I imagine the money required just to get in the door on this would be surprising (maybe shocking) to the OP.

[ShamrockOneFive 3743]

4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You’re a lumberjack and you’re OK.

 

Monty Python Lumberjack song now playing on repeat inside my head

 

4 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Not in this hot weather. I'm friggin' melting. This is not my kinda weather. I'd pay $50 for a day of -10 right now.

 

Or for a better mission editor.  

 

Is it ever! It's almost midnight here and it's still 28c. My external temperature sensor hit 35-36c.

[LuseKofte 3760]

6 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

This is a pointless question for the forum.  None of us knows. 

 

You can call Jason, but he'll almost certainly just say that they're not interested.  You probably need to write a really big check just to find out how big a check that you need to write to get the plane that you want.  You might not need to write that first big check if you have connections (like the Russian Military Historical Society).  Do you have connections like that?

You are right, the question might be utter nonsense, and if I firmly seriously wanted a plane made I would contacted directly. 
But it still Would be interesting to know if one could use alternative funding of improvements. 

7 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Not in this hot weather. I'm friggin' melting. This is not my kinda weather. I'd pay $50 for a day of -10 right now.

 

Or for a better mission editor.  

I been on a project for 3 weeks in boiling hot weather. 20 degree celcius. Now at home and freetime we got 13 and overcast. 
I am not made for hot weather myself

[ZachariasX 2661]

10 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

But it still Would be interesting to know if one could use alternative funding of improvements.

Bring him ALL documentation about said aircraft and wire him the cash for 1-2 years of hiring programmers. But since those would be new, added hands (as you are musing about more exotic aircraft types), you might pay him for 3-4 years. If you do that, you'll probably have a base for a discussion.

[41Sqn_Skipper 200]

13 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

 Like a HE 115....

 

Actually, the He 115 could be quit cheap for Cliffs of Dover. The biggest part missing would be the cockpit (assuming the AI flight model is good enough). So if you join Team Fusion and create the cockpit yourself it would only cost you time, the necessary software tools and the costs for research (books/documents, archive, travel).

 

Biggest problem will be the lack of references. So it might be impossible in the end.

 

 

[LuseKofte 3760]

7 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Bring him ALL documentation about said aircraft and wire him the cash for 1-2 years of hiring programmers. But since those would be new, added hands (as you are musing about more exotic aircraft types), you might pay him for 3-4 years. If you do that, you'll probably have a base for a discussion.

Well that is the thing you simply Do not wire money for 1 to 4 years and see how it goes. And that is not the case. 
if it was we would not have a new dlc every second year but in every 20 year

Edited July 8, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[J5_NiiranenVR-Gfr 171]

I live in a rich country , I'm up'age , a boomer , not rich but absolutely not poor - I like this game - I go out buy the Virpil joystick and all the other  stof - have the reverb vr glasses and now I'm curious maybe buy the next gen reverb ..... So the smallest money I have spend is the game ...... I guess 

 

It would be no problem for me to spend extra 5- 10 $ per month to the game if they have something extra to use .... Could be bombers / skinservers or other stof 

 

I have other thing I'm just pay for like Spotify - iCloud - so on 

 

What I mean - no problem for me ( and guess many others ) that pay monthly $ for some extra would be  no problem 

 

 

[Juri_JS 1731]

Weren't some of the planes from Il-2 1946 funded by the community and created by 3rd party modellers (He-177 and Pe-8)? I can't remember what the cost were back then, but I guess for a BoX plane you would have to triple or quadruple the figure.