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OBT-Mikmak

What i love in Cliffs Of Dover Blitz/Desert Wings Tobruk series

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Posted (edited)

I am a fervent support of Desert Wings Tobruk and here is a list of qualities that I particularly appreciate in the Cliffs Of Dover series and which are, IMO, important for the content and not only for the form ...

1. Excellent damage model
2. Fluidity even on modest PC and weak internet connection
3. Very good mission editor inherited from IL2 1946 and integrated into the game (essential to create interesting campaigns ūüėČ)
4. Easy host capabilities
5. Very good ballistics
6. The recoil effects when firing with on-board weapons are modeled
7. The cockpits are clickable
8. There is a minimap adjustable in size and position which does not take up the whole screen (so much more practical for navigation ūüßź)
9. Map grid with letter and number (so much easier to announce in audio )
10. Excellent force feedback with the possibility to adjust the various effects via ".ffe" files
11. The tracks are readable from one version to another (my tracks from 2013 still work)
12. We can re-record tracks from a track (very useful for videos creators )
13. The Track IR can be used during the reading of a track( as it is in Il 2 1946)
14. You can choose your ID and serial number just before you take a plane (interesting for organization and cohesion)
15. The shared victory system with a decimal point count (avoids race-to-kill and other shoulder shooting¬†behaviors... ūüė≠)
16. The info window system is very practical and completely configurable (no, the gray square on your screen is not a bug ... )
17. The tank management system with the possibility to transfer fuel from one tank to another in the event of a leak (bomber enthusiasts will not be bored... ūüėé)
18. The different realistic autopilot modes on bombers (heading / climb or heading / level )
19. Possibility of creating damages on the aircraft via C # scripts
20. Possibility of creating a radar system
21. Possibility of radio navigation (Gonio, Lorentz) and landing without visibility
22. The sound of planes rather close to reality
23. I really find that each plane have it's specific flight behaviors and is really impacted by the loading and the inflicted damages
24. Photorealistic aesthetics

 

Have you another qualities you like in CloDo ?

Edited by OBT-Mikmak
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25. Livery system with very small jpg's only and the game adds all other layers (even my 5 year old kid style skins looks faitly good).

26. ME save a group to file such as an AAA site with multiple different units to easily add saved site template in other places.

27. Has the Hawker Hurricane

28. Spawn in sub-missions into already running mission (or just spawn in new flights on the go as needed)

29. Simple but genious mission file easily edited in notepad etc.

30. Memorized GUI so for mission makers starting the same mission 60 times an evening (maybe that's just me) one can just press Enter, Enter, Enter all over and the same SP mission fires up.

31. Oleg.

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32. Very interesting planeset that's historically accurate yet still really balanced for online and singleplayer

33. Servers can handle 100+ players even if most are congregated near the same spots

34. Insane level of loadout/convergence/ammo customization

35. GUI (while simple and not that modern) has no loading between screens or any extra fluff, easy to move between menus and bind controls.

36. Realistic bomb fuses

37. Good spotting

38. Excellent platform for multiplayer campaigns (SoW, TWC, ACG etc)

39. Long visibility range

40. Can have huge AI formations with tons of bombers, fighters, and flak without a big FPS hit

41. THE COMMUNITY!

42. Early morning fog effect

43. Realistic rendering of lighting and colours

44. ability to enter in chat commands (<tl, <obj, etc)

45. Clickable cockpits

46. Developers that are releasing a very interesting never seen before theatre of war with North Africa and it's planes

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When I played the last time the flames from the exhaust pipes changed color according to the fuel rate, adjusting the carburation you get the best combustion in the cylinders and you see it from the color that changes in a nice blue of the flames. This is poetry for me, I love these things a lot and thinking about how challenging it must be to add these effects to the game I feel like thanking and encouraging the developers to continue on this line because it makes the game unique, interesting and loved.

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47. Readily available API that allows to create custom apps/programs to enhance the experience (e.g a dope radar/friendly plot tracking system)

 

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Lots of great points, I agree with all the above. I like everything in CloD, the FM, DM, AI, weapons and ballistics. The flight model is so great, sometimes I just select Tiger Moth and load a Free Flight in Quick Mission and enjoy it a lot.

Oh, wait. There's one thing I definitely appreciate - Absence of Fantasy Engine Timers! CloD does this right. If you abuse your engine - the temperature will rise (due to various factors) and it'll be a toast. No secret clocks, nothing to recharge, just a real representation.

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* The feel of the flight... using a Microsoft FFB2 stick. Slightly modified, but FFB, yeah! ForceFeelBack ... speed, turns, stalls ... all there.

* The sound. Surround it is. For me, this is a big thing - any cockpit in CloD looks/feels more spacious than any cockpit in GBS. Or DCS. Most noticeable in the 110.

* The sound. You can hear when the engines (mainly 110, though 109 as well) are too high on their RPM's, and without looking at the dials, or having some indicators on screen, you can tell you need to act upon that, to keep them running ... 

* Bombs bouncing off the deck of a ship. Whether accurate or not, the fact they do that, the fact it is modeled that way, just makes you think of taking a different approach to ship bombing: Drop the bomb ahead of the ship, so it does not skip, but it goes 'BOOM' once the ship arrives at the spot you dropped the bomb at - depending on delay timers of the bomb. And yes, when executed correctly, the ship will go down ... 

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What I like the most is: The title has improved over the years and is still expanding to this very day. It's in good hands with TF and the work the team is doing is fantastic.

 

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48. Distance and heading measurement tools integrated into the minimap and allowing to pin navigation points.

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Posted (edited)

I like this thread :)

 

Many points worthy of note, but just to pick out two of them:

 

"8. There is a minimap adjustable in size and position which does not take up the whole screen (so much more practical for navigation ūüßź)"

 

Re number 8.  Surely this adjustable map and its functionality is the best combat flight sim map in the world! 

I just do not understand why other flight simulations don't follow this as best practice.

 

"33. Servers can handle 100+ players even if most are congregated near the same spots"

 

Re number 33.  Well, simply the best.  Is anything else able to beat this?

 

 Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman
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Posted (edited)

I don't fly CloD much nowadays because of not being interested in BoB setting - I feel it's about to change big time with move to North Africa. However, to answer the OP's question - apart from usual stuff mentioned above, the sim features Bristol Beaufighter, and, when strafing naval targets, it has splash animations second to none. That's already enough to make me happy :D.

Edited by Art-J
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Posted (edited)

49. The exhaust flames color changes according to the mixture, blue flames indicate that the mixture is correctly tuned.

50. The different wind layers ability (distinct in strength and orientation)

Edited by OBT-Mikmak
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Posted (edited)

51. Has the real sense of immersion when flying from in the cockpit as Airspeed and Altitude, etc. info are obtained from the Actual instruments.
52. Includes the Italian Regia Aeronautica for the Battle of Britain ever since it was first released.

53. For DW-Tobruk, has a vast variety of ships like Queen Elizabeth, Revenge, Zara, Leander classes. Having the King George V Class BB as a placeholder for Japanese, American, and British Battleships was beyond absurd.
54. Radio Comms and Commands 

55. Droppable fuel tanks ‚Äėdrop tanks‚Äô in Desert Wings-Tobruk

56. More detailed list of what’s damaged.

57. Has (almost) literally, every single plane/variant that was available for both sides during the Battle of Britain: trainers, seaplanes, Fw-200 also.

Edited by Novice-Flyer
Added 57.
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1 hour ago, Novice-Flyer said:

Has literally, every single plane/variant that was available for both sides during the Battle of Britain: trainers, seaplanes, Fw-200 also.

Much as I love Clod,

you are opening yourself up to an awful lot of corrections here. Many RAF bombers, Battle just for starters, beauforts (should be in tobruk also), RN skua/rocs. CC Hudsons. They might not have been fighters flying combat intercepts and fighter patrols but you havent actually qualified your statement.

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3 minutes ago, 56RAF_Stickz said:

Much as I love Clod,

you are opening yourself up to an awful lot of corrections here. Many RAF bombers, Battle just for starters, beauforts (should be in tobruk also), RN skua/rocs. CC Hudsons. They might not have been fighters flying combat intercepts and fighter patrols but you havent actually qualified your statement.

 

To add to that:

 

Ju 86 recon planes, He 51s, Harvard, and tons of bombers like the Hampden and the Battle and Beaufort you mentioned.

 

I do say though that the planeset is remarkably comprehensive for planes that one would want to fly in a BoB scenario. Hurricane, Sptifire, Blenheim, 109, 110, 87, 88, 111. All that's missing in terms of important flyable aircraft really are the Do 17 and the Defiant.

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5 minutes ago, ATAG_Flare said:

 

To add to that:

 

Ju 86 recon planes, He 51s, Harvard, and tons of bombers like the Hampden and the Battle and Beaufort you mentioned.

 

I do say though that the planeset is remarkably comprehensive for planes that one would want to fly in a BoB scenario. Hurricane, Sptifire, Blenheim, 109, 110, 87, 88, 111. All that's missing in terms of important flyable aircraft really are the Do 17 and the Defiant.

Oh I aint complaining about what we have (save missing the beaufort for tobruk). Just gotta hide next pension payment from wife.

Poor old do17, no-one ever seems to make them flyable. 80years of isolation for it.

Dont know whether I would refer to flyable and defiant in one sentence :). But you would have to have a go. If nought else just to see if you could convince some sap to fly as a gunner. 

It just seemed a very enthusiastic comment to put up.

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58. Propeller blades visible in slow motion

59. Ability to have a view without cockpit allowing to create guncam videos.

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Posted (edited)

S! 

 

60. Cockpit and windscreen not having random scratches, fingerprints or a stupendous smear on them. Not on a single plane. 

 

61. Crispness of the graphics. No overdose of post-processing used. 

 

62. TFS keeping the dream alive. 

 

And so on..a lot of positives already mentioned above too. 

Edited by LLv34_Flanker
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Probably been sort of mentioned before, but the incredible appearance of light and shade, both in the cockpit and outside. The sky, and particularly the haze at the horizon are absolutely stunning.

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This is the best engine for WWII air combat. It was designed for that from the beginning.

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3 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

This is the best engine for WWII air combat. It was designed for that from the beginning.

 

I am fascinated to see what it would be like in VR.  Perhaps one day in the future another thing to love about the CloD series might be that it is the best combat flight simulation for VR headset users :)

 

The CloD series might just end up being the go-to WW2 combat flight sim for VR.  'Who' knows (perhaps the doctor).

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2020 at 12:23 AM, Arthur-A said:

Lots of great points, I agree with all the above. I like everything in CloD, the FM, DM, AI, weapons and ballistics. The flight model is so great, sometimes I just select Tiger Moth and load a Free Flight in Quick Mission and enjoy it a lot.

Oh, wait. There's one thing I definitely appreciate - Absence of Fantasy Engine Timers! CloD does this right. If you abuse your engine - the temperature will rise (due to various factors) and it'll be a toast. No secret clocks, nothing to recharge, just a real representation.

Except that many planes' aero engines could be run at full power with no overheat. Eg Spit IX merlin 66 could be run at 25lb boost and the radiators were capable of keeping temps in spec.

So the if CloD method is to artificially overheat your engine to stop you running WEP for ever that is a fantasy engine timer as well.

 

In fact afaik you can run some engines in clod at WEP indefinitely. But my point is that automatically overheating an engine just because the game designer doesn't want you to run at WEP indefinitely is the same as BOS imo.

 

 

 

##. I do think the accuracy and density of the AAA is a really good thing in CloD. Particularly the 88mm or equivalent. Also I think the engine can handle a lot more AAA objects on the map.

##. The sea looks very nice

 

57 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

 

I am fascinated to see what it would be like in VR.  Perhaps one day in the future another thing to love about the CloD series might be that it is the best combat flight simulation for VR headset users :)

 

The CloD series might just end up being the go-to WW2 combat flight sim for VR.  'Who' knows (perhaps the doctor).

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Yeah, I can't imagine there'll be as much cpu overhead required. If they can iron out a few bugs and implement VR (with a solid 90FPS) that would be awesome.

Edited by 71st_AH_Barnacles

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Except that many planes' aero engines could be run at full power with no overheat. Eg Spit IX merlin 66 could be run at 25lb boost and the radiators were capable of keeping temps in spec.

So the if CloD method is to artificially overheat your engine to stop you running WEP for ever that is a fantasy engine timer as well.

 

In fact afaik you can run some engines in clod at WEP indefinitely. But my point is that automatically overheating an engine just because the game designer doesn't want you to run at WEP indefinitely is the same as BOS imo.

I don't think that CloD overheats engines "artificially". I only overheated my engines when I was doing tight maneuvers at low speed at WEP, when the airflow around radiators isn't good.

 

When I pushed the throttle to WEP at high speeds I didn't notice any sudden overheating nor engine failures. I think CloD Engine model is excellent so are many other aspects of this sim.

Edited by Arthur-A
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1 hour ago, Arthur-A said:

I don't think that CloD overheats engines "artificially". I only overheated my engines when I was doing tight maneuvers at low speed at WEP, when the airflow around radiators isn't good.

 

When I was pushed throttle to WEP at high speeds I didn't notice any sudden overheating nor engine failures. I think CloD Engine model is excellent so are many other aspects of this sim.

Sorry I misunderstood your original point.

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63. The landing gear which doesn't go up if you fly too fast after take off (Blenheim, G50)

64. The planes behavior versus the wind (tendency to feather, drift, shear effect between two layers of wind, wing in the wind which is lifted on takeoff according to the wings dihedral )

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On 7/14/2020 at 3:54 AM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Except that many planes' aero engines could be run at full power with no overheat. Eg Spit IX merlin 66 could be run at 25lb boost and the radiators were capable of keeping temps in spec.

So the if CloD method is to artificially overheat your engine to stop you running WEP for ever that is a fantasy engine timer as well.

 

In fact afaik you can run some engines in clod at WEP indefinitely. But my point is that automatically overheating an engine just because the game designer doesn't want you to run at WEP indefinitely is the same as BOS imo.

 

 

 

##. I do think the accuracy and density of the AAA is a really good thing in CloD. Particularly the 88mm or equivalent. Also I think the engine can handle a lot more AAA objects on the map.

##. The sea looks very nice

 

Yeah, I can't imagine there'll be as much cpu overhead required. If they can iron out a few bugs and implement VR (with a solid 90FPS) that would be awesome.

Nope.¬† ūüėČ

 

How do I know that?  Because a very respected friend of mine who was a Wing Commander in WW2 and shot down 20+ aircraft... (Wing Commander James Edwards) and who also had to deal with all the maintenance reports from his Squadrons, told me it was a pain in the backside to have to deal with replacing the engines in aircraft where some rookie pilot mistakenly used +25 boost emergency power for too long.

 

And another gentleman I met... who was a German Gruppenkommandeur, (OberLeutnant Franz Stigler) and who shot down 30+ planes told me the same thing... in his case it was when his Squadron pilots used MW-50 and 1.8 ata... in his words... "Kaput!  Engine has to come out!"

 

All of the so-called 'emergency power' options were just that... they could be run for a limited period of time in emergencies and then the pilot risked engine damage.

 

Most WW2 pilots were reluctant to use emergency power unless they were at a disadvantage and their life was at stake... in normal combat, it wasn't used.

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My car behaves the same ... only use it when the law is on my six.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Nope.¬† ūüėČ

 

How do I know that?  Because a very respected friend of mine who was a Wing Commander in WW2 and shot down 20+ aircraft... (Wing Commander James Edwards) and who also had to deal with all the maintenance reports from his Squadrons, told me it was a pain in the backside to have to deal with replacing the engines in aircraft where some rookie pilot mistakenly used +25 boost emergency power for too long.

 

And another gentleman I met... who was a German Gruppenkommandeur, (OberLeutnant Franz Stigler) and who shot down 30+ planes told me the same thing... in his case it was when his Squadron pilots used MW-50 and 1.8 ata... in his words... "Kaput!  Engine has to come out!"

 

All of the so-called 'emergency power' options were just that... they could be run for a limited period of time in emergencies and then the pilot risked engine damage.

 

Most WW2 pilots were reluctant to use emergency power unless they were at a disadvantage and their life was at stake... in normal combat, it wasn't used.

That's interesting, thanks Buzz.

 

I only stated that though as I'm 99.9% sure I saw a test document for when they tested the spit 9 at 25lb, that said the cooling system was sufficient without any modifications, even in a sustained climb. I know the regulations say to rebuild/replace an engine which has exceeded the design perimeters, but that is different from actually failing/overheating in flight, and isn't actually contradicted by the statements from your interviews, unless they caveated it with statements that the engines would normally be destroyed by this process, and the paperwork/engine replacement was just for those lucky enough to come back.

 

I trust that you very much have the big picture on this though, certainly much more than I do, and I am very glad you share this information. Please understand that I wasn't saying that the game is necessarily wrong (in fact given full radiator you can firewall the throttle I think in the spit), but in context I was comparing how the different sims treat engine limits.

 

I just want to be 'convinced' that the game is realistic, and the historical info on the machines simulated in game is important for that, so thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 71st_AH_Barnacles

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S!

 

Running at high boost or WEP or whatever might not outright destroy the engine, but for sure drastically shorten it¬īs lifespan and time between maintenance/overhaul cycles. In many cases, if not all, exceeding normal parameters warranted a special inspection of the engine. Engine change ws not uncommon either as described by Buzzsaw. For example those P47D¬īs that vere souped up to higher boost parameters were mostly lost in action due technical failure(56th FG), namely the engine. This means that even an engine is rugged, being run over the specified parameters can lead to catastrophic failure. Field maintenance and being used in varying conditions vs factory testing conditions are¬†hardly the same.

 

What I like in CloD and DCS is that you can fly by the book and even exceed some values as long as the engine parameters stay within allowable. Meaning fuel/oil pressure, boost pressure, RPM, oil/coolant/cylinder head temperatures etc. You can¬īt do it indefinitely, but in some situations it can save you from being shot down :)¬†And I like that you can rely on those gauges due the modelling.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

Running at high boost or WEP or whatever might not outright destroy the engine, but for sure drastically shorten it¬īs lifespan and time between maintenance/overhaul cycles. In many cases, if not all, exceeding normal parameters warranted a special inspection of the engine. Engine change ws not uncommon either as described by Buzzsaw. For example those P47D¬īs that vere souped up to higher boost parameters were mostly lost in action due technical failure(56th FG), namely the engine. This means that even an engine is rugged, being run over the specified parameters can lead to catastrophic failure. Field maintenance and being used in varying conditions vs factory testing conditions are¬†hardly the same.

 

What I like in CloD and DCS is that you can fly by the book and even exceed some values as long as the engine parameters stay within allowable. Meaning fuel/oil pressure, boost pressure, RPM, oil/coolant/cylinder head temperatures etc. You can¬īt do it indefinitely, but in some situations it can save you from being shot down :)¬†And I like that you can rely on those gauges due the modelling.

Yes, I recognise all that, but my point was although the engines required special inspections/replacement, that does not necessarily mean that the engine would overheat.

That would be dependent on the power of the engine, the power of the radiator and the delta between it and the outside air temperature and mass flow through it.

 

 

I'm sure some engines historically did though, at high power, it would just be interesting to know if the ones that do in game are doing so because the simulation was based on historical cooling data or as a disincentive to stay at WEP too long?


And I recognise there are advantages to both ways of doing things too, but to say that 'artificial overheat after a certain time at WEP' is not t 'timer', a la BoX is a fallacy. 

Edited by 71st_AH_Barnacles
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65. On Spits and Hurri when one or more machine guns are damaged on the same side, the still functional weapons on the other side make the plane rotate in yaw.

66. The incendiary ammunition which set fire to aileron.

 
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S!

 

67. Map actually corresponds to the scenery. Makes it a bit easier to find landmarks and other features that help in navigation.

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This is one of the best threads I’ve ever read in an IL-2 forum. Very good read!

 Thanks 

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68. Yesterday I was waiting my teammate for rejoin and when I checked my six I saw TWELVE spitfires diving on me! Beautiful! 

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69. The red tapes on machine guns which are perforated at first shoot.

70. The interior lighting fluctuation according to RPM

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Hi MikMak,

 

Thanks very much for starting such a positive thread and to those that contributed. All of us at TFS are working bloody long hours as we get closer to release, and know we will be making continuous improvements post release and manning the social media pages to answer community questions. All on top of super busy real jobs. We are a committed lot! :)

 

I can say for me personally, reading this thread, 1. Made my day and 2. makes the time spent producing the sim, worth the time and energy investment.

 

I love Cliffs, and cannot wait for Tobruk to release so you all can get stuck in. Equal importance to me is our community. 

 

Gaming communities are like homes and  neighbours. You can have a great home (game), but if your neighbours (community) suck , your home doesn't feel so special. 

 

We have the best on line community I have seen, and our collective home is a very special one is large part because of it.

 

Thanks again¬†ūüĎć

 

Pattle 

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I will definitely try Tobruk at some point, one of the feature which i like the most is the ability of the engine to handle more object in the air and on the ground.

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#98? CLOD now will have the 'Barrel Chested Martlet'! I have been waiting since IL2 PF to fly the Wildcat again. Christmas comes early this year.

#99? The Hurricane just looks and fly's so Dam-n Good. Can't wait to tote along those tank Buster's and have a go.

#100 The Best Looking/Clickable Cockpits in the business!!!

#101 The feel of flying has always ranked at the top for me.

 

So glad 1C, Jason and TFS came to terms to try this venture of expanding CLOD/DSWT. Wish all of them a big success.

 

S!Blade<><

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71. The sun reflections on the canopies visible at long distance

72. The kinematics of bombs dropping in external view (on the He 111 it's magnificent, even in recorded track)

73. The modeling of directional gyroscopes with their drift and the need to readjust them on the magnetic compass

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