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HDR effect on spotting?


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2 hours ago, =X51=VC_ said:

 

I'm afraid to say what you're expecting is unrealistic. It is normal for planes to disappear as you zoom out, because you are increasing your field of view and indirectly you are making the planes smaller. You are squashing more "world" into the same number of pixels so something will get lost. You should not be expecting to spot well flying zoomed out.

 

VR has a natural field of view, but on a screen you will be surprised how "zoomed in" you have to be to reproduce a realistic FoV. A WWII fighter windscreen is a similar size to your real screen, and similar distance from your face. Zoom in until the plane windscreen in game fills your whole screen, now that is a natural field of view, and that is the condition in which you should compare spotting to VR, or real life.

 

Also a Rift S has exactly the same resolution as a 2k screen (2560 x 1440).

 

I know VR experience is a very personal thing, but I played on an original Vive (2160 x 1200) and found it very immersive and acceptable for both spotting and ID. I recently upgraded to a Vive Pro (2880 x x1600, slightly higher resolution than Rift S) and both my spotting and ID improved significantly.

Actually no I don't have unrealistic expectations.  Never had this problem even with DCS and other sims same rez etc.  I don't agree with not being able to spot while zoomed out.  Others seem to see things better than I can with different settings and setups.  IRL I am a Pilot and even own my own airplane.  And yes it can be difficult to spot planes but as a game mechanic with a 27 aperture or a 115 FOV view of the world there has to be some reasonable compromise.   The difference with the Rift is that its inches from your eyes.  So the pixels are more defined.  Dots show up much easier in the Rift.  Not so on the panel.  Also the over all rez is 2k it isn't per eye. It's actually 1280X1440 per eye.  So it's lower rez when viewing.   I may be going to a Reverb G2 in the fall because I have heard very good things in terms of simming

  

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On 7/17/2020 at 8:53 PM, =X51=VC_ said:

I'm afraid to say what you're expecting is unrealistic. It is normal for planes to disappear as you zoom out, because you are increasing your field of view and indirectly you are making the planes smaller. You are squashing more "world" into the same number of pixels so something will get lost. You should not be expecting to spot well flying zoomed out.

 

I strongly disagree. You should most definitely expect to see a plane if it is within visual range being rendered, no matter the zoom level. This is not only realistic, but mandatory for realistic compromise of how one should spot planes in flight simulators. There have been opposing statements thrown around. Most commone one being "real pilots did not use zoom". Yet, with what you describe above is exactly how zoom functions in game = it is mandatory to use as it tries to mimic eyes focusing on one object in a distance or none by having wide peripheral view (i.e. zoom). The problem with that is that in real life objects don't simply disappear when you don't focus on them. The higher resolution the same focus your eyes have to do to pin point that small pixel representing a contact. Forcing one to use zoom is twice the workload when compared to what you have in real life. Not only that, but in other flight sims you can use wide view thus more closely mimicking the real peripheral vision - and the game is still rendering contacts.

 

Explanations that this is a hardware limitation and we need to wait for better technology is nonsense IMO. While the flight physics and engine modeling have gone forward, the spotting mechanics and rendering of enemy planes has gone two steps backwards since the original IL-2.

 

As far as spotting goes and how much inconsistent it is on a desktop monitor - this is by far the worst aspect of this flight sim.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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Its quite crazy how we have great hardware in 2020 yet us flight simmers in il-2 are struggling to see contacts .

Ive tried VR and my jaw dropped to the floor the  first time in flight sims .

But after a while the low res got to me and i went back too flat screen and a big one 43" 4k TV. 

But still struggling to see contacts in THIS game . 

its like there is a shader over a shader to stop you seeing things against the back ground . 

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17 hours ago, KoN_ said:

Its quite crazy how we have great hardware in 2020 yet us flight simmers in il-2 are struggling to see contacts .

Ive tried VR and my jaw dropped to the floor the  first time in flight sims .

But after a while the low res got to me and i went back too flat screen and a big one 43" 4k TV. 

But still struggling to see contacts in THIS game . 

its like there is a shader over a shader to stop you seeing things against the back ground . 

 

I stopped supporting the game until is fixed, this is not a flight simulator it's a combat flight simulator, I would not pick a ww2 plane to just go out and not engage in combat. Some people spot planes because they lower the game image quality but I refuse to do that on my high end machine just because the game engine is deficient. So I don't buy any other dlc or plane until it's fixed.

Edited by SJ_Butcher
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22 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I stopped supporting the game until is fixed, this is not a flight simulator it's a combat flight simulator, I would not pick a ww2 plane to just go out and not engage in combat. Some people spot planes because they lower the game image quality but I refuse to do that on my high end machine just because the game engine is deficient. So I don't buy any other dlc or plane until it's fixed.

Im joining you , i have every map and most content but i just cant play like this anymore  .The situation awareness is totally out of the window  its so bad now just pulling the trigger means loads of people will be flying towards you as it the only thing people can see . It doesn't matter how many times you scan the skys and your six . You cant have servers that are full real `` when you have invisible spitfires cloaking  in firing their guns . Not flow TAW since . 

Edited by KoN_
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2 hours ago, KoN_ said:

Im joining you , i have every map and most content but i just cant play like this anymore  .The situation awareness is totally out of the window  its so bad now just pulling the trigger means loads of people will be flying towards you as it the only thing people can see . It doesn't matter how many times you scan the skys and your six . You cant have servers that are full real `` when you have invisible spitfires cloaking  in firing their guns . Not flow TAW since . 

 

I don't know which is worse, the 10km bubble or the current situation, at least with the 10km bubble you couldn't be caught by surprise soo often, now its impossible to really deal with the spoting, shimmering in clouds and ground make it worse.

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On 7/22/2020 at 4:08 AM, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I stopped supporting the game until is fixed, this is not a flight simulator it's a combat flight simulator, I would not pick a ww2 plane to just go out and not engage in combat. Some people spot planes because they lower the game image quality but I refuse to do that on my high end machine just because the game engine is deficient. So I don't buy any other dlc or plane until it's fixed.


It's shame that devs do not fully appreciate the very drastic impact of not fixing the visibility issue of other aircrafts. This should be the priority one!

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Ah, another day, this discussion again.

I started playing this genre a decade and a half ago, on a machine that was primitive at the time. Needless to say there were icons in all games then (a plane at firing range would have just been a smudge without either icons or vast levels of zoom).  I am very gratified that things have advanced so much that we get to enjoy the aesthetics of playing without icons somewhat functionally, but sometimes one looks back a little wistfully on the simpler days when people discussed dogfighting tactics, instead of the arcane art of boosting your spotting capability.🤪

It's 2020. Surely we can come up with a way to give our virpils the equivalent of at least 20/20 vision (most fighter pilots possess better than 20/20 eyesight) while still keeping the icon-less aesthetic. Online play shouldn't be looking for fleas on a black dog, that's neither realistic nor fun.   


The "fly-speck" contact dots War Thunder simulator mode uses at long range work, and work well, to at least bring players together. Just steal the idea already and be done with it.

The downside is that primarily because maximum zoom isn't as great, type ID of what you've spotted can be a problem, whereas it's fairly easy to ID in Il-2 once you've actually detected something to zoom in on in the first damn place. But it is far, far better thing to high-speed buzz what turns out to be a friendly than it is to cruise 30 minutes in what as far as you can tell is an empty arena.

10 hours ago, Mollotin said:

Well, I have no spotting issues now. 40in 1080p TV.

 

I used to have spotting issues but now spotting feels ok to me.

Some day...

Edited by Rattlesnake
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6 minutes ago, Rattlesnake said:

It's 2020. Surely we can come up with a way to give our virpils the equivalent of at least 20/20 vision (most fighter pilots possess better than 20/20 eyesight) while still keeping the icon-less aesthetic. Online play shouldn't be looking for fleas on a black dog, that's neither realistic nor fun.   


The "fly-speck" contact dots War Thunder simulator mode uses at long range work, and work well, to at least bring players together. Just steal the idea already and be done with it.

 

Seconded.

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17 minutes ago, Rattlesnake said:

Ah, another day, this discussion again.

I started playing this genre a decade and a half ago, on a machine that was primitive at the time. Needless to say there were icons in all games then (a plane at firing range would have just been a smudge without either icons or vast levels of zoom).  I am very gratified that things have advanced so much that we get to enjoy the aesthetics of playing without icons somewhat functionally, but sometimes one looks back a little wistfully on the simpler days when people discussed dogfighting tactics, instead of the arcane art of boosting your spotting capability.🤪

It's 2020. Surely we can come up with a way to give our virpils the equivalent of at least 20/20 vision (most fighter pilots possess better than 20/20 eyesight) while still keeping the icon-less aesthetic. Online play shouldn't be looking for fleas on a black dog, that's neither realistic nor fun.   


The "fly-speck" contact dots War Thunder simulator mode uses at long range work, and work well, to at least bring players together. Just steal the idea already and be done with it.

The downside is that primarily because maximum zoom isn't as great, type ID of what you've spotted can be a problem, whereas it's fairly easy to ID in Il-2 once you've actually detected something to zoom in on in the first damn place. But it is far, far better thing to high-speed buzz what turns out to be a friendly than it is to cruise 30 minutes in what as far as you can tell is an empty arena.

Some day...

 

Do you have any video?

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24 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Do you have any video?

Here mate, the flyspeck effect is fairly visible at the outset of this one. Keep in mind the standard caveat that due to compression the YT quality is far grainier than what actually appears on the monitor.

I play the game on a 1080p monitor, but with super sampling turned on, no antialiasing. This results in a VERY sharp image on my screen for easy spotting of both tanks and planes, albeit I have to turn off some of the eye candy (shadow effects) to keep the 80 or greater frame rate I consider ideal for dogfighting performance. If I was willing to put up with 50-60 average I could play with a lot of that stuff on.
Pea Shooter vs. Biplane

Edited by Rattlesnake
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I do agree that more could be done to make spotting more even across hardware and generally more predictable overall. But WT speck spotting is a horribly overdone solution. It's ugly, makes spotting far too easy (negating sneaking up on people) and it also makes judging distance to contacts very difficult as they're the same size from very long ranges to quite close when they start rendering properly.

 

And you know what? We do already have something like that. It's called "alternate visibility" and none of the more serious MP servers use it, for good reason.

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13 minutes ago, =X51=VC_ said:

I do agree that more could be done to make spotting more even across hardware and generally more predictable overall. But WT speck spotting is a horribly overdone solution. It's ugly, makes spotting far too easy (negating sneaking up on people) and it also makes judging distance to contacts very difficult as they're the same size from very long ranges to quite close when they start rendering properly.

 

And you know what? We do already have something like that. It's called "alternate visibility" and none of the more serious MP servers use it, for good reason.

 

I have tried that option and I don't see the difference, is still too bad

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The problem with alternative visibility is the specks get smaller as you get closer and larger if you are further away. Also specks get smaller when you zoom in.

 

If the minimum size is a larger speck it should at least stay that size as minimum not shrink when it gets closer.

 

Regular spotting is preferred because it looks better, but for gameplay it makes alot of missed fun as it's extremely hard to see anyone even fairly close to you.

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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On 7/2/2020 at 11:10 AM, RedKestrel said:

That is the main problem with testing for spotting. If something doesn't make a night and day difference, its really difficult to say for sure if something improved spotting or if its just a placebo. By definition a controlled test must be reproducible, and that usually means that you will know where the aircraft are ahead of time, which may give you an advantage in spotting them...which ruins the test.

 

Well, one could collect footage at a fixed angle (e.g. a pre-saved camera angle from a plane watching another plane which are both on pre-programmed courses in the mission editor). Then one could randomly present the two videos to different people (using a randomised order of presentation) and collect the resulting statistics. It is a lot of work though.

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On 7/23/2020 at 8:25 AM, Mollotin said:

Well, I have no spotting issues now. 40in 1080p TV.

 

I used to have spotting issues but now spotting feels ok to me.

Do you play online . ?

whats your graphic settings .?

A 1080 res is big pixels and a 40" TV . People are actually lowering their systems down too 1080p to see contacts . 

Photos below show the jaggy horizon Flying at 2560x1440 on a 43" 4K.

other photos show contacts attacking ground targets . See if you can spot . But you wont be able too . Not unless zoomed right in . If you look away to check six your loose that contact . 

 

2020_7_21__20_13_23.jpg

2020_7_21__20_1_52.jpg

2020_7_21__18_54_29.jpg

2020_7_20__18_46_44.jpg

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Didn't the devs previously say that the game doesn't render planes as single pixel dots (ie IL-2 1946 method) and that increasing resolution won't make it harder to spot?

 

Some people say that reducing resolution improves spotting by making contacts bigger, then I see others discounting it saying it doesn't work like that..

 

As an extreme example - if you were on HD resolution and the furthest distance contact was 4 pixels, then you switched to 4k res then the furthest distance contact should be double the pixels but the same size on the monitor? Or does it stay as 4 pixels i.e smaller on the monitor?

I see people saying both are true, but nothing really confirms it.

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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40 minutes ago, KoN_ said:

Do you play online . ?

whats your graphic settings .?

A 1080 res is big pixels and a 40" TV . People are actually lowering their systems down too 1080p to see contacts . 

Photos below show the jaggy horizon Flying at 2560x1440 on a 43" 4K.

other photos show contacts attacking ground targets . See if you can spot . But you wont be able too . Not unless zoomed right in . If you look away to check six your loose that contact . 

 

2020_7_21__20_13_23.jpg

2020_7_21__20_1_52.jpg

2020_7_21__18_54_29.jpg

2020_7_20__18_46_44.jpg

 

 

Yes i play online. Graphic settings at max, 60 fps v sync.

 

But i tend to zoom a little if im looking for contacts. 

 

Besides, what i consider ok spotting, another player might consider it bad. 

It all depends what u feel u should be able to see in the game.

 

Edit: on my phone now so cant really see anything on those pics.

Edited by Mollotin
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14 hours ago, =X51=VC_ said:

I do agree that more could be done to make spotting more even across hardware and generally more predictable overall. But WT speck spotting is a horribly overdone solution. It's ugly, makes spotting far too easy (negating sneaking up on people) and it also makes judging distance to contacts very difficult as they're the same size from very long ranges to quite close when they start rendering properly.

 

And you know what? We do already have something like that. It's called "alternate visibility" and none of the more serious MP servers use it, for good reason.

Have you looked at it lately? I don't find it all that aesthetically obtrusive, and let's face it, aesthetics is what we are going for here, if we wanted to properly simulate fighter pilot vision on small monitors we'd need icons/labels. Speck size partially depends on how high you have sharpness setting in postFX turned up. I have it on the low end as too high makes the picture ugly and is not necessary. I imagine hardware has something to do with it as well, probably more obtrusive on a huge monitor/tv than it is on a moderate size one.

I bounce and get bounced unawares all the time mate, especially in multi-bandit situations. Anyway, the problem with spotting in real life isn't that planes are borderline invisible until well within guns range, rather it is the fact that there is a massive lot of sky to search. There is no way to practically simulate this on a monitor, although VR is getting to the point where it does so I suppose. When it comes to sneaking the six o'clock position specifically, well sit down in your car, put your seat belt on, twist around and look out the rear window. See how many *hours* you can do this before it gets uncomfortable. 🙃 Again there is no way to simulate this particular effect on a monitor, although I guess VR kinda does the trick here too.

Seems like the ultimate long-term solution is for everyone to be playing in VR.

And at the end of the day if the target sees you, so what? Some air combat maneuvering may be necessary? Horrors. The whole point of playing online is to fight other humans.

Regarding judging distance: You zoom into the flyspecks to bring their planform, direction etc into view. The more zoom it takes the further away they are. Not perfect, but again what can be done within the limits of a screen. I've already conceded that there really ought to be more zoom possible to ID at a longer distance. 

I don't know if the fact that alternate visibility isn't widely used on servers proves anything. Many players seem to seriously believe that engines would destroy themselves if left at high power settings for 7 minutes instead of 5 , so if they also believe the average WWII fighter pilot suffered from severe and  uncorrected myopia it wouldn't surprise me. 

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spotting got a lot better with the introduction of Deferred Shading, i.e. the first patch.

 

Then after the Zoom patches it went back to invisibility again.

 

Even on Berloga, where it's pretty much a desert, it's impossible to see anything without zoom set at x5 (with tiny FOV), or watching for huge fat tracers. You can see/spot the planes only when they're around ~500-800m, or when they are in the sky during a banking turn.

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On 7/23/2020 at 3:25 AM, Mollotin said:

Well, I have no spotting issues now. 40in 1080p TV.

 

I used to have spotting issues but now spotting feels ok to me.

 

This depends on how close you sit to the screen.

 

I have used a 55" for years (VIZIO 55" Class LED V-Series then upgraded to the LG 55" OLED) and I well tell you that if you are sitting greater than 5' (1.5 m) away from your screen, spotting is just "OK" but not the best. When I went to my current 49" desktop monitor, the difference is like night and day! 100% by far a better investment.

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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Spotting distance seems highly dependant on pixel size, since at a given distance the plane will render as a single pixel. So a gigantic 1080p display will have very large pixels that make spotting easier of course, at the expense of sharpness. Closer in, it depends more on contrast, colour , etc.

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3d572680-3c1c-4d8a-9d21-3d10206da018_tex

 

18 hours ago, =X51=VC_ said:

I do agree that more could be done to make spotting more even across hardware and generally more predictable overall. But WT speck spotting is a horribly overdone solution. It's ugly, makes spotting far too easy (negating sneaking up on people) and it also makes judging distance to contacts very difficult as they're the same size from very long ranges to quite close when they start rendering properly.

 

And you know what? We do already have something like that. It's called "alternate visibility" and none of the more serious MP servers use it, for good reason.

 

I'll be hones in saying that I haven't tried WT. But, literary anything that gives better visibility and spotting is more realistic than what we have now in-game. A solution that does not render contacts on wide zoom is not realistic, not by any stretch of imagination.

 

In older and other modern simulators that do make sure a contact is visible, it is most definitely possible to jump on someone. Just not as horribly easy as it is to do in this sim. It takes skill (I am not implying you have none, just that it is more difficult but perfectly possible to do). The main problem with how easy it is to jump someone, is that often even when you check your 6 OC the contact is very difficult to spot even when you know where to look.

 

Last but not least - about why alternate visibility is not used. Alternate has one huge flaw - and that is ugly ballooning effect of super long distance contacts. This and this alone makes it unusable on any online server. No matter the other benefits it brings, i.e. contact visible no matter the zoom level.

 

I'd rather have poor distance judgement than blindness tuning we have now. Any day of the week. As it allows for a much more immersive game-play.

 

 

8 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Didn't the devs previously say that the game doesn't render planes as single pixel dots (ie IL-2 1946 method) and that increasing resolution won't make it harder to spot?

 

Some people say that reducing resolution improves spotting by making contacts bigger, then I see others discounting it saying it doesn't work like that..

 

I switched from 24" 1080p to 27" 1440p monitor and can vouch that it is more difficult to spot contacts. Simply due to the fact you are spotting pixels, sometimes not even that.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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Spotting on 2560x1440 is virtually impossible until they are almost right on you. The graphics are beautiful, but the spotting abismal. This is one reason I will not even go online to fly in realistic servers. Spotting and the AI are the weakest points of TGBS. The AI is ssssslllllooooowwwwllllyyyy getting better but still cannot rival WOTR OR WOFF, which is a shame for this far into TGBS's development cycle. I am hoping by the time BON is released that the Devs will have these two Elephants in the room removed.

 

S!Blade<><

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6 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Spotting on 2560x1440 is virtually impossible until they are almost right on you. The graphics are beautiful, but the spotting abismal. This is one reason I will not even go online to fly in realistic servers. Spotting and the AI are the weakest points of TGBS. The AI is ssssslllllooooowwwwllllyyyy getting better but still cannot rival WOTR OR WOFF, which is a shame for this far into TGBS's development cycle. I am hoping by the time BON is released that the Devs will have these two Elephants in the room removed.

 

S!Blade<><

 

I doubt they fill fix it when the new game is out, and I will not wait a year to see the fix, I prefer to move to another game/sim than waste my time here 

Edited by SJ_Butcher
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2 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

I doubt they fill fix it when the new game is out, and I will not wait a year to see the fix, I prefer to move to another game/sim than waste my time here 

 

You're not the only one. I am considering to switch to Tobruk when it comes out, with all other issues, CloD at least had spotting done right.

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15 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I doubt they fill fix it when the new game is out, and I will not wait a year to see the fix, I prefer to move to another game/sim than waste my time here 

Well, persistence has payed off in the past. Look how BOS started out. Jason reads all this stuff and he knows what the community wants. TGBS has far more good points than bad, but the Devs need to do something about these two critical issues sooner than later. With proper spotting and intelligent/challenging AI, I would have to think sales would explode. Maybe a reevaluatin of where these two items are on the priority/to-do list would land them high up there and instill a sense of ergancy to do the footwork and solve these critical issues. Hopefully persistence will pay off again.

 

S!Blade<><

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The hardest problem for me personally really is not being able to find or track close contacts that should easily be visible a few KM out. I'm fine with not seeing a fighter more than 7-8 km, but I should not be constantly losing it between 1 to 4 km when in low profile. 

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Well, they're actively working on the AI with a programmer on it full time. So that'll get better. And the spotting... yeah it's terrible, let's just hope that the new deferred shading stuff will eventually also do something for spotting.

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I think I remember a member of the Dev team saying that it won't be worked on any time soon back when we had the last visibility patch.

Could anyone find the quote perhaps?

 

If my memory is accurate, it's a real shame as this is the #1 priority for me.

 

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IIRC Jason said that when they do again tackle this issue, they wish to do it properly. Not like the Alternate visibility.

 

Money talks. Once they start losing pilots or better, realize they are not gaining them due to this glaring issue - then we can expect changes.

 

Until then, here are other simulators out there.

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5 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

IIRC Jason said that when they do again tackle this issue, they wish to do it properly. Not like the Alternate visibility.

 

Money talks. Once they start losing pilots or better, realize they are not gaining them due to this glaring issue - then we can expect changes.

 

Until then, here are other simulators out there.

 

I hope man, because I don't even want to play the game anymore, others Sims don't do it any better, modern combat is boring to me and they have their own problems, I think I will never have the fun again that I have on the 1946.

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38 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I hope man, because I don't even want to play the game anymore, others Sims don't do it any better, modern combat is boring to me and they have their own problems, I think I will never have the fun again that I have on the 1946.

Since I flew WWII planes, I have become less interested in modern jets. I can only expect IL-2 GB...

I sincerely hope that the visibility problem can be solved.

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9 hours ago, Oyster_KAI said:

Since I flew WWII planes, I have become less interested in modern jets. I can only expect IL-2 GB...

I sincerely hope that the visibility problem can be solved.

 

We keep talking about this and complaining and we don't get a proper update, status or plan that will give us a clear answer on where is going to be fixed or scheduled to be fixed.

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On 7/24/2020 at 11:04 AM, RedKestrel said:

Spotting distance seems highly dependant on pixel size, since at a given distance the plane will render as a single pixel. So a gigantic 1080p display will have very large pixels that make spotting easier of course, at the expense of sharpness. Closer in, it depends more on contrast, colour , etc.

 

Which is my point - that pixel size you see depends on how close you are to the TV.;)

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On 7/25/2020 at 8:33 PM, 216th_Jordan said:

The hardest problem for me personally really is not being able to find or track close contacts that should easily be visible a few KM out. I'm fine with not seeing a fighter more than 7-8 km, but I should not be constantly losing it between 1 to 4 km when in low profile. 

 

Im with you. But...what would you do to be fair to anyone? There is simply no technical solution unless everybody is using the very same device for spotting. If it would be an easy fix, I think it would be done since ages. I switched recently from a superfine-density Monitor to a HTC cosmos. The difference in spotting things couldnt be more indistinguishable. As long we have huge 4k monitors and lowres headsets the issue will remain.

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12 minutes ago, cellinsky said:

 

Im with you. But...what would you do to be fair to anyone? There is simply no technical solution unless everybody is using the very same device for spotting. If it would be an easy fix, I think it would be done since ages. I switched recently from a superfine-density Monitor to a HTC cosmos. The difference in spotting things couldnt be more indistinguishable. As long we have huge 4k monitors and lowres headsets the issue will remain.

 

One problem I think is rendering - often low profiles like wing surfaces are "swallowed" at pixel level. Maybe there would be an option to influence the Pixel rendering in a way that rendered engagable objects are drawn with higher priority on pixel level. Its all just speculation on my part because I do not know the internal workings of this engine but I am sure a few possible (better or worse) solutions are available. 

 

One major drawback really is image clarity. I do not know why exactly, but Il-2 is not very clear image wise and somewhat "grainy" with lots of flimmering that makes spotting harder. If there were ways to sufficiently increase image clarity that would help spotting a lot on its own.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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