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Discussion of IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk Announcement

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

Pretty sure it works with Vorpx, just needs some tweaking on my part (which frankly I don't do much with Vorpx, despite it being a useful and worthwhile purchase).

I'm waiting patiently for VR support but obviously, given my past comments, I will purchase either day one or soon after (funds availability being the obvious limiting factor) but it's a given purchase and one I'm happy to make.  I still use trackir and keep it for my older software when I just want to play it for old time sake.

 

Value:

Playtime BOX:  3,298 hours (recorded by Steam - was a supporter before that was an option with more hours on previous versions, but whatever)

Cost? Somewhere around ~ $609 US dollars to support every product so far.

Actual cost to me:  Somewhere between 18 and 19 cents per hour so far.

 

Playtime Blitz: 516 Hours so far (obviously not recorded - I'm sure I have more hours than that but again, whatever)

Cost?  Originally?  I *think*  $69.99

Real cost so far? About 14 cents per hour  (thats rounding up for both examples)

 

Consider that in your average entertainment budget and if you are like me, that's a pretty solid value.[...]

S!

Hey,

certainly meant in good intentions. But as you yourself said, Vorpx is no alternative, please don't let it sound like it would be. Some people might just quote "use Vorpx" without knowing what they're talking about... 😅

 

Also, my calculation is indeed different. For me time is limited, not money. I got 4-12 hours per week in the evening, depending how the week is. I seek to max quality of my experience per hour. I have averaged slightly less than 6 hours per week in IL-2 since 2017 (taken from my Steam). I have purchased everything twice, some things thrice. 

 

So that said, the scenario they have now (North Africa) is really one I like. I will get it as soon as it has VR support. I was hoping for IL-2 GB to go to North Africa as well, it's quite unique and should be great fun too. I continue looking forward to Battle of Normandy, and keep so much hope for DX12 as well. The great content collection this title has come to is en par or more powerful than the modern-scenario competitor ;)  S! :salute:

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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It never stops does it... constant moans about VR. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells understands that they want to do it, but it won't come in Desert Wings. I'm not sure how many times it's been stated by the team.

At the end of the day, VR users love their VR sets, and that's great, I for one am pleased they love combat aviation with VR, but constantly ramming the forums with posts claiming they won't buy without it is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face... again, it's been stated over and over, if you want further improvements then Tobruk has to sell well, otherwise that's it, probably the end.

People say, I've sold my trackIR, so no VR I'm not buying... madness, what about forward planning? If I owned a VR the last thing I would do is sell my trackIR. What if my VR set goes kaput? 

I then can't fly any combat sim can I... at least I could revert to my old trackIR until my VR set is fixed.

But that is my mindset, that's why I have my old trackIR as back up in case my trackIR 5 goes west.

All I'll finish with is, guys... support the team and you will end up with what you want, future products to keep us flying... If you think about it, it's the same thing that jason keeps saying for the GB series, it's what keeps all the flight sims going.

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Posted (edited)

You have no idea what you are talking about Trooper117. 😂 One thing you, against all odds, understood correctly is that there's no going back. Didn't sell TrackIR, I still got 2 different sets in a box. So your whole "not forward planning" has missed the point entirely. Your hate against emerging technology - without ever having tried it - sounds as silly as the comments of people that hate EVs, but have never tried one. Or those who hate motocyclists, but never rode a proper bike.

 

  👉 You should not derail the thread trying to divide us into VR vs non-VR player. We are one community. Some are merely expressing their opinion freely, discussing truths about why or why not we'd purchase it. And where people of like-minded interest come together, they talk about it.

 

Easy as that. The scenario looks great.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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16 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

You have no idea what you are talking about Trooper117. 😂 One thing you, against all odds, understood correctly is that there's no going back. Didn't sell TrackIR, I still got 2 different sets in a box. So your whole "not forward planning" has missed the point entirely. Your hate against emerging technology - without ever having tried it - sounds as silly as the comments of people that hate EVs, but have never tried one. Or those who hate motocyclists, but never rode a proper bike.

 

  👉 You should not derail the thread trying to divide us into VR vs non-VR player. We are one community. Some are merely expressing their opinion freely, discussing truths about why or why not we'd purchase it. And where people of like-minded interest come together, they talk about it.

 

Easy as that. The scenario looks great.

 

You have totally and completely missed my point... and I'm not trying to divide anyone.

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Nechápu lidi, kteří vždycky jen si stěžují a rýpou. Pokud se Ti ten produkt nelíbí nebo tam něco chybí, tak si ho nekupuj. A je jasné, že až to vyjde , tak postupem času se budou určitě některé věci dodatečně dodělávat anebo některé ne, ale nekritizuj něco co ještě nevyšlo. A myslím si , že TFS odpověděl stručně a jasně co a jak tam bude nebo nebude anebo se časem dodělá a samozřejmě záleží i na úspěšném prodeji produktu, tak jak to tam bylo jasně řečeno, že se bude určitě vylepšovat nebo přidávat více věcí. Takže už neotravujte s otázkami a kritikou proč to tam není apod. Díky Vám takovým urýpaným lidem spousta Teamu skončila s prácemi na dalších addonech, ale to my (většina) nechceme aby kvůli Vám skončili , ale Vážíme si jejich práce a jsme rádi za jejich pracovní úsilí. Takže, nechceš TFS 5.0 - nekupuj. Chceš TFS 5.0 - kupuj. Já rozhodně kupovat budu a už se na to těším, kéž by to bylo co nejdřív. 

 

I don't understand people who always just complain and dig. If you don't like the product or something is missing, don't buy it. And it is clear that when it comes out, over time, some things will definitely be done later or some will not, but do not criticize something that has not yet come out. And I think TFS answered briefly and clearly what and how it will or will not be there or will be finished over time, and of course it also depends on the successful sale of the product, as it was clearly said there that it will definitely be improved or added more things. So don't bother with questions and criticism why it's not there, etc. Thanks to you, such teams have ended a lot of work on other addons, but we (most) do not want them to end because of you, but we appreciate their work and we are happy for their work. effort. So, you don't want TFS 5.0 - don't buy. Do you want TFS 5.0 - buy. I will definitely buy and I'm already looking forward to it, I wish it was as soon as possible.

 

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I prefer clod to BoX, just my preference, I will be buying Desert Wings on the day of release, the naval battles sounds interesting and I cant wait to go on bombing missions in the Wellington.

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14 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I think the cost will be prohibitive to bring back SoW. 2 x Tobruk licenses ...

Hi. Colander said you don't need two account for server hosting. At least this is the case with Blitz, and We don't expect to work differently with Tobruk. All that was needed in Blitz to run a dedicated server was to have steam running with any account on it, even if it didn't have the game. In order to install/update, you could login to steam with your account but you can switch accounts after it was updated.

 

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1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

 

You have totally and completely missed my point... and I'm not trying to divide anyone.

Why isn't everyone happy here? Seems to me that everyone wins. Blitz users will get VR for FREE. They don't need to do anything. TF 5.0 buyers get the theater of war they have been clamoring for. No one loses. It is fruitless to wish away posts lamenting the current lack of VR. That was baked into the cake long ago. Everyone involved in the project must have seen that coming. I doubt there is any limit to the number of pre-orders one can make so please have at it.

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Posted (edited)

I'm glad they've promised single-player content. The inclusion of robust single-player campaigns likely ensures that I'll purchase it. Obviously they're not mutually exclusive, but that is more important to me than VR. But of course VR inclusion in the future would be nice.

Edited by unlikely_spider
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, OBT-Lionel said:

In March 2020, over one hundred million steam users more than one million were playing in VR (1%). So 99% play on screen.

Yes but what kind of games are we talking about here?

 

In order to have meaningful numbers for comparison, you should narrow it down to flight / racing sims only and moreover only to those that allow for both pancake as well as VR use.

 

Other than that, it compares apples to pears.

Edited by apollon01
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I trust that the Blitz UI is working well for everyone else here. Unfortunately, for me it is not. Getting in and out of missions requires repeated invocation of the task manager. When I start a recording the recording starts with me looking out at ocean waves. If I want to record a mission I have to first name it via keyboard input. If I want to know my fps I have to open the console and type: fps START SHOW in the console. There is no way I will pay a cent for a NA mod regardless of VR implementation unless I am first assured that Blitz 5.0 is playable on my Win10, Intel, 1080 Ti system. My fear is that the game will become less stable with each "enhancement". If Blitz 5.0 runs smoothly on my system I will see a VR implementation as more possible, not until then. Failure to implement a stable, user friendly interface would likely doom TF 5.0.

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Thanks for telling us all.

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5 hours ago, theOden said:

First one is He-115 torpedo bomber (also used by Norway and Sweden among others).

Second one is Supermarine Walrus, great to spawn in for pilots ejecting over water.

Both are AI only.

 

If I recall correctly the Air-Sea rescue operations during Jubilee used Defiants (yes those) to spot for downed pilots and direct in the Walruses.

 

It is actually pretty close to that 1942-1943 planeset now that I think about it... as the main allied fighters were Spit Vb and Hurricane IIs ...but we'd be missing the Mustang I, Spit IX (early), Typhoon (early), Fw-190A4, Boston III, and Do-217E... so BoX is currently closer I think.

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5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

At the end of the day, VR users love their VR sets, and that's great, I for one am pleased they love combat aviation with VR, but constantly ramming the forums with posts claiming they won't buy without it is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face... again, it's been stated over and over, if you want further improvements then Tobruk has to sell well, otherwise that's it, probably the end.

...

All I'll finish with is, guys... support the team and you will end up with what you want, future products to keep us flying... If you think about it, it's the same thing that jason keeps saying for the GB series, it's what keeps all the flight sims going.

Agree. It was the support given to Jason and the team that made them add VR to BoX/GBs in 2017, if the sales were poor in 2016, then VR probably wouldn't have been implemented, or when it was.

 

Whether you're a VR or non-VR person, just buy it; you don't have to play it as often, but by buying it you're supporting the team and increasing the chances of them going to another theater(s) and flying planes that probably would Not be in IL-2 GBs, even if there was no TFS. 

 

For all these people who are " without VR, not buying Tobruk." how (save for Fenris Wolf here) difficult is it to go onto GBs and fly perhaps a short flight without VR: not as regularly as you normally would with VR, but enough to say that you have played it?

 

Speaking of which...

17 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 as soon as it supports virtual reality (don't even have a monitor in front of my cockpit-place anymore)

How are you able to even start the game then?

 

Danke.

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10 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

How are you able to even start the game then?

 

 

He doesnt say he doesnt have a monitor. Having seen pics of where he plays in VR what he says is correct. One beauty of VR is that with a long enough cable you dont have to sit in front of a PC if you choose not to. 

 

Go me - sticking up for VR-ers.  Itll pass Im sure 🙂

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8 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

Agree. It was the support given to Jason and the team that made them add VR to BoX/GBs in 2017, if the sales were poor in 2016, then VR probably wouldn't have been implemented, or when it was.

 

Whether you're a VR or non-VR person, just buy it; you don't have to play it as often, but by buying it you're supporting the team and increasing the chances of them going to another theater(s) and flying planes that probably would Not be in IL-2 GBs, even if there was no TFS. 

 

For all these people who are " without VR, not buying Tobruk." how (save for Fenris Wolf here) difficult is it to go onto GBs and fly perhaps a short flight without VR: not as regularly as you normally would with VR, but enough to say that you have played it?

 

Speaking of which...

How are you able to even start the game then?

 

Danke.

elation giving way to anxiety within 24 hours

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6 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

elation giving way to anxiety within 24 hours

annnnnnnnd.............its past. 

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3 hours ago, VO101Tom said:

Hi. Colander said you don't need two account for server hosting. At least this is the case with Blitz, and We don't expect to work differently with Tobruk. All that was needed in Blitz to run a dedicated server was to have steam running with any account on it, even if it didn't have the game. In order to install/update, you could login to steam with your account but you can switch accounts after it was updated.

 

It was? Ha. I had no idea. Guess I'm the fool who bought two copies of Blitz then! :)

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@fenriswolf Hey buddy.  For clarification, I'm not saying Vorpx is the solution, just a shortcut for those that want to explore the VR experience for non VR supported titles.  

If you already own a license for it, and a copy of Blitz it is possible to do.  How well it works is a subjective experience and of course it is no substitute for official support.  Salute gang.  It's been an enlightening discussion.  :)

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My two cents on VR. It has to be fantastic. Never tried it though. IL-2 Sturmovik Desert Wings: Tobruk will not have it when first released but is promised to have soon after. Why squable  about it :drinks:

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Posted (edited)

I'm new here and my needs are simple. I just want there to be enough for a single player to enjoy this expansion, playing on my laptop with no VR. I've really enjoyed playing 'Cliffs of Dover Blitz', but it is limited, on the RAF side anyway. I'm hoping that the Tobruk expansion offers many hours of fun. 😀

Edited by TDK1044

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18 minutes ago, II./JG27_Rich said:

My two cents on VR. It has to be fantastic. Never tried it though. IL-2 Sturmovik Desert Wings: Tobruk will not have it when first released but is promised to have soon after. Why squable  about it :drinks:

Imo if VR people want it to have the feature added they should buy the product if they like what they see.

If you can afford it supporting the team is the only way to ensure VR happens because as far as I know VR is next but the expansion has to be successful for that to happen really.

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Here's another perspective from a VR user: I never had head tracking device. I've been playing in VR since 2017. However, once I took a closer look at CloD, I bought head tracker and ~85% of my flight sim time I spend in CloD. I don't get all the hysteria about NO VR NO BUYING. I don't know how many times Team Fusion members have to repeat that they ARE going to implement VR. It'll just happen AFTER 5.0 release. In my opinion this is the correct prioritization.

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When  I downloaded Oleg's first Il-2 demo I was blown away. I never thought to urge anyone else to buy the full product. I guess I felt it a given that anyone who ran the demo would be immediately hooked. I see Blitz as a demo for TF 5.0. My reaction to it is totally different. The CloD/Blitz interface remains clunky even after many years' opportunity to update it. So who is it designed for? To me the answer must be that it is designed for those who have already accepted its' quirks. As near as I am aware the only announced UI update is a reorganization of the controller assignment menu. If new customers who give favorable reviews are desired then you have to give them a friendly UI that is essentially bullet proof in its execution. I am an Oleg fan, but I am not fond of CloD. Of course he was probably no longer in charge of the product at its' release. The concern is that history may be repeating itself. The VR vs non VR community conflict is to me totally phony. If there really are few VR users out there then who cares whether or not they buy TF 5.0? Demostrably some posters do care. The real question is whether new users will enjoy the game and that will depend upon the UI.

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I`m in. Never flow Midterranean before. Hope it`s going to be a blast!:joy:

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I will buy it because such a long free dedication from Team Fusion is the sign of a real passion that is lacking in so many other products that only make things for money.

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Good or bad UI, I don't really care as long as the flying is good. And this is the first ever high fidelity sim of the African theatre, and of the Wellington, D520, Gladiator, CR42, and Martlet. It's going to be fun. That's what matters.

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Just now, Dagwoodyt said:

The CloD/Blitz interface remains clunky even after many years' opportunity to update it. So who is it designed for? To me the answer must be that it is designed for those who have already accepted its' quirks. As near as I am aware the only announced UI update is a reorganization of the controller assignment menu.

 

Even with Source Code the progress to update the UI is slow. Interesting what they done already for the TF 5.0 update? Other Games as example use the Unreal Engine 4 for the main menu this allow real-time customization without creating tremendous performance issues but the game themselve will still run on their original engine.

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1 hour ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

I will buy it because such a long free dedication from Team Fusion is the sign of a real passion that is lacking in so many other products that only make things for money.

Ab-so-tutely!

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1 hour ago, ATAG_Flare said:

Good or bad UI, I don't really care as long as the flying is good. And this is the first ever high fidelity sim of the African theatre, and of the Wellington, D520, Gladiator, CR42, and Martlet. It's going to be fun. That's what matters.

I agree.  I am looking forward to this release and sucking up desert air.

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You are identifying yourselves as members of a group i've just described without touching the concern raised. That in itself is a "tell".

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3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

When  I downloaded Oleg's first Il-2 demo I was blown away. I never thought to urge anyone else to buy the full product. I guess I felt it a given that anyone who ran the demo would be immediately hooked. I see Blitz as a demo for TF 5.0. My reaction to it is totally different. The CloD/Blitz interface remains clunky even after many years' opportunity to update it. So who is it designed for? To me the answer must be that it is designed for those who have already accepted its' quirks. As near as I am aware the only announced UI update is a reorganization of the controller assignment menu. If new customers who give favorable reviews are desired then you have to give them a friendly UI that is essentially bullet proof in its execution. I am an Oleg fan, but I am not fond of CloD. Of course he was probably no longer in charge of the product at its' release. The concern is that history may be repeating itself. The VR vs non VR community conflict is to me totally phony. If there really are few VR users out there then who cares whether or not they buy TF 5.0? Demostrably some posters do care. The real question is whether new users will enjoy the game and that will depend upon the UI.

 

Not arguing with you but if the UI was changed how would you like it to.look?

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6 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

If I recall correctly the Air-Sea rescue operations during Jubilee used Defiants (yes those) to spot for downed pilots and direct in the Walruses.

 

It is actually pretty close to that 1942-1943 planeset now that I think about it... as the main allied fighters were Spit Vb and Hurricane IIs ...but we'd be missing the Mustang I, Spit IX (early), Typhoon (early), Fw-190A4, Boston III, and Do-217E... so BoX is currently closer I think.

As we have mentioned, DESERT WINGS - TOBRUK is focused on the North Africa campaign... up to June of 1942.

 

TOBRUK does add Channel only aircraft... many types, but we only cover aircraft up to August of 1941... just before the FW-190A was introduced.

 

If we go on to TF 6.0, then we will add more Channel map aircraft, including definitely the FW-190A, including the A-1/A-2/A-3/A-4... as well as other German and Allied types.  The module will go from September of 1941 onwards for the Channel.

 

We are not releasing the identity of any other additional aircraft types for TF 6.0 at this point as our moving on is dependent on the success of TOBRUK.

12 hours ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

I've been watching the updates on YouTube for the past year and am so glad to finally see it's coming!

 

I will be purchasing on day one, proud to be supporting TFS.

 

Is there a list of all the graphics/performance updates?

 

I've never played CLoD much, as I just got into BoX a couple years ago, and only bought CLoD out of curiosity as I think it was only $15 or $20 at the time (now that it's like $6.24 during sales, it's a no-brainer).  I always liked it and appreciated the differences, but the graphics just didn't do it for me and I really just played enough to experience the different planes.  It appears from pictures I've seen that it has been upgraded, so I am definitely looking forward to how it looks on my PC this summer.

 

 

Also, can anyone tell me what planes these are, and if they are flyable?

 

Screenshot (112).png

Screenshot (114).png

You should know the He115 was not used in the Mediterranean.  The Walrus was.

 

If we implement an airsea rescue system, we will create the He-59 for the German side and make it and the Walrus flyable.

 

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39 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

If we implement an airsea rescue system, we will create the He-59 for the German side and make it and the Walrus flyable.

 

Wasn't a model for the He-59 in development? If I recall the Lysander, Cierva C.30, and He-59 were all partially modeled when development ceased. I wonder if the incomplete 3d models were transferred with the assets along with the source code when the new team took over?

 

I remember them mentioning that the Bf-109F model that had been developed for the Cliffs derived (Storm of War engined) BoS was transferred but wasn't worth using in the RoF derived BoS.

 

P.S. These were official models, not 3rd party ones (there were some 3rd party Polish models being developed as well).

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11 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Wasn't a model for the He-59 in development? If I recall the Lysander, Cierva C.30, and He-59 were all partially modeled when development ceased. I wonder if the incomplete 3d models were transferred with the assets along with the source code when the new team took over?

 

I remember them mentioning that the Bf-109F model that had been developed for the Cliffs derived (Storm of War engined) BoS was transferred but wasn't worth using in the RoF derived BoS.

 

P.S. These were official models, not 3rd party ones (there were some 3rd party Polish models being developed as well).

Not Lysander, Cierva C.30, but the He-59 was... but it needs a lot of work... quality was not there... damage modeling, flight models, etc.

 

He-59 model did not have a cockpit.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Not Lysander, Cierva C.30, but the He-59 was... but it needs a lot of work... quality was not there... damage modeling, flight models, etc.

 

He-59 model did not have a cockpit.

 

Ah, interesting. It is fun to talk about history and relish how far we've come!

 

I found a thread with some old screenshots - as you can see, many of the models weren't very far along:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=26450

 

Still, it is interesting. Elsewhere there are pictures of the same Lysander with bombracks (instead of the 20mm cannons). Note: I'm not proposing that these planes be added, at least unless there is a compelling reason. I'm very happy with what TFS has done!

Edited by Avimimus
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40 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Ah, interesting. It is fun to talk about history and relish how far we've come!

 

I found a thread with some old screenshots - as you can see, many of the models weren't very far along:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=26450

 

Still, it is interesting. Elsewhere there are pictures of the same Lysander with bombracks (instead of the 20mm cannons). Note: I'm not proposing that these planes be added, at least unless there is a compelling reason. I'm very happy with what TFS has done!

Many of the elements which were developed by the original team were lost by the time we got our license from 1C.

 

Not surprising, since we received the SC 5 years after the project had been cancelled.

 

We created a testbed cockpit for the Walrus and it is a ton of fun to fly.... would like to create these aircraft, but when you consider how much work is involved, and the fact the time could be spent on creating FW-190's or other more popular types, we will need to get more manpower resources in TF to do this work.

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47 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Many of the elements which were developed by the original team were lost by the time we got our license from 1C.

 

Not surprising, since we received the SC 5 years after the project had been cancelled.

 

We created a testbed cockpit for the Walrus and it is a ton of fun to fly.... would like to create these aircraft, but when you consider how much work is involved, and the fact the time could be spent on creating FW-190's or other more popular types, we will need to get more manpower resources in TF to do this work.

 

It is amazing that anything survived. The existence of this project is a tremendous accomplishment and I hope the launch goes well. I'm also glad to hear you guys are having fun experimenting and exploring possibilities.

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