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Discussion of IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk Announcement

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16 minutes ago, -IRRE-Belmont said:

Then again, this is a discussion thread, positive and negative reactions are meant to happen.

 

Agreed. But "im not buying until it gets A B C" isnt a discussion. Its a closed statement. And a repetative one at that. 

 

I dont for one single minute think SandClod will be perfect. I think it would have been much more warmly welcomed if it had been equipped with a decent DCG, weather and VR but 1c seems to have called "time's up" and it is what it is right now.  

 

But neither BOX or DCS are perfect either. And i strongly disagree with some comments about how this or that is good in them. I most ceertaiunly disagree that all should fall before the mighty BoX.  I was and am hugely dissappointed by BOBP but i dont feel any real need or see any value in posting "Im not buying BON until" in every available forum. For one I just dont think what i think matters and secondly Im pretty sure the Devs and publishers know their market and act accordingly. My coin compared to what i would like is irrelevent to them. I only see the sky above me, they see the universe entire. That sorta thing.  

 

It would just have been nice not to have to scroll through 5 pages of reasons (mainly the same one or two and often repeated by the same people more than once) why someone isnt buying and instead see the devs being asked questions about what will be there at release.

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The questions about what will be in the release haven't been answered except for a "the plane list is in the other thread".

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Posted (edited)

As long as us single players all buy the new DLC all will be good with the world and that will provide the finance for VR and any other missing elements, we need to understand the team could only do so much with a old title and it certainly looks impressive from what we have seen so far.:drinks:

 

There are many new planes and countless upgrades to those already in use with a new map and objects, how people can always go on about the cost is beyond me, too many folks wanting everything for nothing will not help develop this sim further, give the new DLC a chance, let us see how it performs on our PC before going into critique mode.;)

 

The guys should be congratulated for the tremendous efforts they have made so far, with and without source code. :cool:

 

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug
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On 7/2/2020 at 5:33 AM, No.54_Reddog said:

The questions about what will be in the release haven't been answered except for a "the plane list is in the other thread".

 

Plane wise we're looking at these new additions:

Not guaranteeing this is 100% correct

 

Luftwaffe

Bf108B-2 (normal & trop)

Bf109E-7 & subvariants including E-7Z with GM-1

Bf109F-1

Bf109F-2 & subvariants

Bf109F-4 & subvariants including F-4Z with GM-1

Bf110C tropicalized models

He111H-2 trop

He111H-6 (normal & trop)

Ju87B-2 trop

Ju88A-5 & subvariants + Tropical

Ju-88C-1

Ju88C-2 & subvariants + Tropical

Ju88 C-4 & subvariants + Tropical

 

Regia Aeronautica

CR.42 (normal & trop)

C.202 Series III (normal and alta quota)

C.202 Series VII (normal and alta quota)

G.50 trop

BR.20 trop

 

French Air Force / Vichy Air Force

D.520

 

Royal Air Force

Beaufighter Mk.IC (normal & trop)

Beaufighter Mk.IF late (normal & trop)

Beaufighter MK.I NF late (normal & trop)

Blenheim Mk.IV early/late trop

Blenheim Mk.IVF early/late trop

Blenheim Mk.IVNF early/late trop

Gladiator Mk.II (normal & trop)

Hurricane Mk.IFB trop

Hurricane Mk.IIa (normal & trop)

Hurricane Mk.IIb & subvariants

Hurricane Mk.IIc & subvariants

Hurricane Mk.IId (normal & trop)

Kittyhawk Mk.IA (normal & trop)

Martlet III

Spitfire Mk.IIb

Spitfire Mk.Va

Spitfire Mk.Vb & subvariants + Tropical

Tomahawk Mk.IIb early/late (normal & trop)

Wellington Mk.IA (normal & trop)

Wellington Mk.IC & subvariants

Wellington Mk IC Torpedo (quite different from normal IC)

 

(Edited by Buzzsaw to correct)

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49 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

The questions about what will be in the release haven't been answered except for a "the plane list is in the other thread".

 

True but TBF ouside of VR and DCGs not many other questions have been asked so far. At least not where the answer is not genuinely known and the question is being asked for devilment.. 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, -IRRE-Belmont said:

What blackmail are you refering to ? People stating they won't buy because of no-VR support ?
That's not blackmail, that's just an opinion.

Lets call it a [edited] post then. Read how many times this has been stated. And then count how many people that posted them. You find the same people wrote that 10 + times. 
If TF could have implemented VR , do you not think they would?

The never going back to 2 D is posted by the same people 100 times. 
we get it, I use VR but not at all addicted to it. 
If not interested , have the courtesy to not be interested by not posting

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Language
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1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Lets call it a [edited] post then. Read how many times this has been stated. And then count how many people that posted them. You find the same people wrote that 10 + times. 
If TF could have implemented VR , do you not think they would?

The never going back to 2 D is posted by the same people 100 times. 
we get it, I use VR but not at all addicted to it. 
If not interested , have the courtesy to not be interested by not posting

People posting about VR are interested, this is why they post, are potential customers, its good for TF to know lots of people want VR implemented, no reason to get mad at them.

I just re installed Blitz to get back into it, its a great sim, but 2D and hatswitch view was like going back to the 1990s, and this confirmed I am used to VR now.

I am sure Desert Wings will be amazing, this guys have been working hard, lots of passion has been put into it, and they already mention VR will be ready by the end of the year.I will buy it to support it from the start.

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Many congratulations to all involved in getting this project this far. 

 

I am a VR headset user who will be late to the flying party, but I intend to support this combat flight simulation with a purchase on release day in anticipation of VR capability in the future.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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Ok, Thank you all who commented on my windows 7 inquiry. I appreciate the advice on the the windows 10 download and hope to try it this weekend then using my windows 7 key. I have a big investment in all CH hotas and pedals and quad so that was another consideration in holding off but think they should work.  I somehow like that the new Desert WIngs is an Addon in the sense continued development would also improve the original along the way like the Il2 BOX model.   If window 10 works for me, I will buy at full price when it comes out (even though I recently found my position is being eliminated - don't tell the wife) to support this development team.  

 

I really love this flight sim COD having patiently followed (silently) all those progressive mods from Team Fusion over the years and want to see them succeed and move on to the next theater (lol)!!! I am already looking ahead, what do we think somewhere out of the Mediterranean would seem to make sense continuing to cover areas that under represented and thus having a market without crossing paths with big brother, SICILY, ITALY, or GREECE perhaps? Sorry if it's too early to speculate, tell me shut up, just excited for this....

 

Dave

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Posted (edited)

Apart from underpants nitpicking I'm very happy to see the Desert Scenario.

A topic I'm browsing as a Il-2 1946 Skinner myself for over 8 years now.

Congrats, the Teasers are awesome. Call me a die Hard Fan.

 

[edited] it's cool and it will come right in time to my Birthday, hehe....

 

Okay, now to Business from Skinner to Skinner:

2 small Skin related Glitches, for comparison reffer to my Martlet Il-2 1946 Skinpack.

http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=2047

 

AM968 and 3676 are questionable, will go to Detail why

 

 

The 3rd Screenshot in upper row is not depicting a Martlet Mk.III, but a folding Wing G-36.

Export Variant of F4F-4

AM968 was a Martlet Mk.II (G-36B) out of a Batch of 36 for the British Purchasing Commision,

Grumman Job No.127. Folding wings, Six guns, Twin Wasp S3C4-G (R-1830-90) 1200 HP

AM964-AM999

 

Delivered 21.10.1941; Shipped from Norfolk, Va in Illustrious 12.12.41; Off to Macrihanmish 21.12.41; 787 Sqn 1.42; Lee from 3.2.42; 881 Sqn 3.42; Kilindini to 881 Sqn Indomitable 7.7.42; 806 Sqn Indomitable ('8M') 7.42; Operation Pedestal, SM79 shot down, later Re2001 shot down 12.8.42 (S/L JA Cotching); 768 Sqn Arbroath/Macrihanish 2.43; EF on approach, cat Y 9.9.43 (S/L A Green RNZN); PD 30.11.43

 

Ray Sturtivant, Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939-1945, page 227

 

The Paintjob is superb, just the flick in the Mark.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last Screenshot showing 3676 Mk.III Martlet

 

It's just the size and position of Letter H, it is oversized and too high.

The Royal Navy Designation was above the 4 digit Number, not on the upper structure. Surplus left and rightside Cowling edges carried the H letter at a lower position

than other FAA Martlets, for recognition purpose on ground handling.

Individual Aircraft Letter was not that Large like on that 3676,  picture exists showing the letter Smaller and not so high above the Roundel.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A big hug from me as a Skinner who endorsed most of these Desert Topics in Research for IL-2 1946 mods.

Congrats for Team Fusions Skinning Staff, you are doing a better job than 1C in research and application.

The difference is eyecatching if you're at the topic.

Thanks for your effort to bring us the Desert Scenario

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Remark not needed.
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1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

People posting about VR are interested, this is why they post, are potential customers, its good for TF to know lots of people want VR implemented, no reason to get mad at them.

I just re installed Blitz to get back into it, its a great sim, but 2D and hatswitch view was like going back to the 1990s, and this confirmed I am used to VR now.

I am sure Desert Wings will be amazing, this guys have been working hard, lots of passion has been put into it, and they already mention VR will be ready by the end of the year.I will buy it to support it from the start.

If they cared to read they plan to implement VR in the beginning of next year. 
This interest they show , is simply impolite and arrogant. We simply have to do without them until VR is a fact

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2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

but 2D and hatswitch view was like going back to the 1990s, and this confirmed I am used to VR now.

 

It also seemed to confirm that headtracking pre VR totally passed you by........

 

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2 minutes ago, BOO said:

It also seemed to confirm that headtracking pre VR totally passed you by........

 

Nope, I sold it after I got used to VR.

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Just now, SCG_motoadve said:

Nope, I sold it after I got used to VR.

Would have been nice if you had mentioned that without prompting instead of making out Clod only has hat views. Some people may be so misguided as to actually pay attention to, and make a buyers choice on, the guff (on both sides) contained in this thread.  

 

I would have thought any game would feel like its stuck the 90s if you dont use the tech that was considered a gamechanger in noughties. BOS included. 

 

 

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CloD was my gateway into simming - pre team fusion - and I'm glad to see the desert finally arriving.

 

Sure, it's not the perfect sim. But none are. BoX has the graphics and a lot of cool features like the dynamic campaign and stuff, but not the most realistic engine models with the timers to failure. DCS has the flight models but not the DM or the AIs. CloD's got the detailed DMs and systems and huge multiplayer servers with the options for amazing online dynamic campaigns but not the graphics like the other two.

 

They all have their place in the WWII flight sim genre. I will be buying Tobruk and I'm happy to support TFS and I'm going to love the Martlet and Wellington and CR42s. But I'm also going to buy BoN and have fun with the Mossie and Tiffy :).

 

See you in the skies.

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Posted (edited)

There is no real argument here. If you already have Blitz just wait till a VR implementation happens. If you don't now have it then buy during the $6.24 sale. It's as easy as that. TF 5.0 purchase is then irrelevant to VR devotees unless they see the NA theater as otherwise irresistible.

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

If they cared to read they plan to implement VR in the beginning of next year. 
This interest they show , is simply impolite and arrogant. We simply have to do without them until VR is a fact

I think you might want to review your own posts on the GB forum on one of your interests that failed to materialze.

3 hours ago, BOO said:

 

True but TBF ouside of VR and DCGs not many other questions have been asked so far. At least not where the answer is not genuinely known and the question is being asked for devilment.. 

 

I believe the question as to what UI "improvements" TF 5.0 will include has been asked several times. To best of my recollection that question has never received detailed response. As of yesterday I am under the impression that the "improvements" will consist of a reorganization of the game controller menu. If I have missed other explanations of the TF 5.0 UI improvements please point them out.

Edited by Dagwoodyt
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36 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

think you might want to review your own posts on the GB forum on one of your interests that failed to materialze.

I am afraid you have to give a example because I never comment in a tread of no interest. Wanting improvement being in disagreement yes. So dont be such a smartass without giving some contex

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57 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I believe the question as to what UI "improvements" TF 5.0 will include has been asked several times. To best of my recollection that question has never received detailed response. As of yesterday I am under the impression that the "improvements" will consist of a reorganization of the game controller menu. If I have missed other explanations of the TF 5.0 UI improvements please point them out.

TBH ive never actually understood what you are banging on about. 

 

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21 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I am afraid you have to give a example because I never comment in a tread of no interest. Wanting improvement being in disagreement yes. So dont be such a smartass without giving some contex

I don't engage in name calling. Thanks

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@Buzzsaw I somehow remember it being mentioned earlier that there would be documentation for the scripting/API coming, is that the case or does it already exist somewhere?

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I take it that "Theatre of War" wasn't a success.

Too bad!

Glad to see the launch is near, certainly a must buy.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

 

Probably my all time favorite IL-2 1946 movie. I can just imagine what it would look like done with Desert Wings: Tobruk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

 

I wonder where wolfbuiscuts is now?  :(

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by II./JG27_Rich

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21 hours ago, Froddi_VR said:

The Martlet sure looks a little bit stu...😬

 

The name "Martlet" is the English name for the Merlette.  The name "Merlette" is a pruned/trimmed duck-like bird with no feet or beak 🤣

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I'll buy this on day one. I hope eventually there would be a P38F addition but won't hold my breath.

 

Guys, the Team Fusion crew are all outstanding. Back when the ATAG server was populated I was always o impressed with their passion and commitment..  and there are a lot of things that IL2:COD does better than IL2-GB even today.. FFB effects, damage model, engine / damage modelling (no technochat timers) , spotting / visibility, .....

 

Sure, we all wish it had VR support and a bunch of other things but these guys have poured years of their effort in making this sim and I think I can say without a doubt that the TF crew will continue to pour their heart and effort into making it better bit by bit if they back them up. It's amazing what they accomplished without the source code, now with it.. sky's the limit.

 

I continue to support IL2:GB because it's the best we've got (particularly for WW1, which I love.. and IL2:GB its where the players are.. but lets be honest, the development crew GB is in my opinion pretty insular and are not usually great listeners. There's been a big change over the past 10 years from the old days when the =FB= guys actually played the game and seemed more in touch with the community....

 

TeamFusion is the exact opposite, they deserve our support. I hope many of you who are "on the fence" jump in , I really think Team Fusion won't let you down

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, TX-Zigrat said:

. It's amazing what they accomplished without the source code, now with it.. sky's the limit.

 

The only thing they've actually managed to accomplish with the source code so far is to decimate the number of people who actually play CLoD.

 

 

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are there any improvements to the AI, because its tragic right now and what about improved quick mission builder?

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This looks brilliant! I'll have my suntan and 78 of "Lili Marlene" standing by. Happened upon the soundtrack sample by Joost - stellar work.

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28 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

The only thing they've actually managed to accomplish with the source code so far is to decimate the number of people who actually play CLoD.

 

 

I don't think anything TFS did lowered the playerbase. After 4.3 it was going strong for a couple years until squads like SOW and ACG started getting bored and left. 4.5 boosted the numbers again for a while. I expect Tobruk to boost the playerbase for a while again. Unless something like SOW can come back I doubt CloD will be as big as it was but I think the reduction in playerbase is not due to any of TFS design decisions, rather the passing of time and pilots wanting a change of scenery. 

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4 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

@Buzzsaw I somehow remember it being mentioned earlier that there would be documentation for the scripting/API coming, is that the case or does it already exist somewhere?

 

Using Visual C# (2010 in my case) you can reference the various DLL's and see all available objects.

(unless I totally missed the essence of your question)

gameplay.png

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46 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

are there any improvements to the AI, because its tragic right now and what about improved quick mission builder?

What do you mean? Don't you like the Ai handling their energy state like a normal person? Or the Ai using all possible angles in a fight?  Or that ai quits the fight when dammage occured or the fuel/ammo is low? Or maybe that the ai  wingman actually protect the leader?
I'm sure you'd prefer the ai turning horizontally at infinity and following you to you base when leaking fuel/oil and coolant at the same time.....:rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, BOO said:

 

True but TBF ouside of VR and DCGs not many other questions have been asked so far. At least not where the answer is not genuinely known and the question is being asked for devilment.. 

 

In fairness Pattle answered my questions in another thread (which I don't think we're asked for devilment...?) Namely Blitz will receive the AI and other core upgrades and the weather will be updated after release which was also answered here. 

 

38 minutes ago, ATAG_Flare said:

I don't think anything TFS did lowered the playerbase. After 4.3 it was going strong for a couple years until squads like SOW and ACG started getting bored and left. 4.5 boosted the numbers again for a while. I expect Tobruk to boost the playerbase for a while again. Unless something like SOW can come back I doubt CloD will be as big as it was but I think the reduction in playerbase is not due to any of TFS design decisions, rather the passing of time and pilots wanting a change of scenery. 

I think the cost will be prohibitive to bring back SoW. 2 x Tobruk licenses + new web domain and hosting as Philstyle is now using it for DCS. I will see how the release goes I think.

4 minutes ago, simfan1998 said:

What do you mean? Don't you like the Ai handling their energy state like a normal person? Or the Ai using all possible angles in a fight?  Or that ai quits the fight when dammage occured or the fuel/ammo is low? Or maybe that the ai  wingman actually protect the leader?
I'm sure you'd prefer the ai turning horizontally at infinity and following you to you base when leaking fuel/oil and coolant at the same time.....:rolleyes:

Not sure what AI you've been playing but I don't recognise it. I'm used to the "switch off and go brain dead fly straight home" mode, "ignore every other plane but the first player you see" and "barrel roll permanently while flying with full rudder deflection" AI.

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Really interesting time-frame, scenario, etc! Love the Desert War. I will definitely get it as soon as it supports virtual reality (don't even have a monitor in front of my cockpit-place anymore).. OpenXR? 😅

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Posted (edited)

I like this arena because the fighters really can shine. Also it's very easy to find one another.

Edited by II./JG27_Rich

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10 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Nope, I sold it after I got used to VR.

I still have my TIR and have refreshed my memory as to how obsolete it is. In 1v1 dogfights in Blitz if the AI misses me in its' first pass it runs way at high speed. When I finally catch up the AI rolls away at my first volley. As I try to follow TIR typically goes briefly haywire and then the chase process repeats. It's excruciating. RIP TIR.

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4 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Really interesting time-frame, scenario, etc! Love the Desert War. I will definitely get it as soon as it supports virtual reality (don't even have a monitor in front of my cockpit-place anymore).. OpenXR? 😅

Pretty sure it works with Vorpx, just needs some tweaking on my part (which frankly I don't do much with Vorpx, despite it being a useful and worthwhile purchase).

I'm waiting patiently for VR support but obviously, given my past comments, I will purchase either day one or soon after (funds availability being the obvious limiting factor) but it's a given purchase and one I'm happy to make.  I still use trackir and keep it for my older software when I just want to play it for old time sake.

 

Value:

Playtime BOX:  3,298 hours (recorded by Steam - was a supporter before that was an option with more hours on previous versions, but whatever)

Cost? Somewhere around ~ $609 US dollars to support every product so far.

Actual cost to me:  Somewhere between 18 and 19 cents per hour so far.

 

Playtime Blitz: 516 Hours so far (obviously not recorded - I'm sure I have more hours than that but again, whatever)

Cost?  Originally?  I *think*  $69.99

Real cost so far? About 14 cents per hour  (thats rounding up for both examples)

 

Consider that in your average entertainment budget and if you are like me, that's a pretty solid value.

 

And consider that is my total cost spread since Cliffs and BOX were released starting in 2011 (?) and 2013(?), nevermind sales discounts and other such promotions.  

These numbers are just examples.  Obviously if that sounds like good value to you for your dollar, then great.  Everyone has to figure out what/how to spend rec time for a hobby and not everyone is like I am.  Our rec time waxes and wanes with life's other distractions, but it's an easy way to figure out how much you actually spend on the software you use vs. the time you use it.  I hope it's at least a nice thought excercise for someone. 

S!

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I still have my TIR and have refreshed my memory as to how obsolete it is. In 1v1 dogfights in Blitz if the AI misses me in its' first pass it runs way at high speed. When I finally catch up the AI rolls away at my first volley. As I try to follow TIR typically goes briefly haywire and then the chase process repeats. It's excruciating. RIP TIR.

Proof only that you are unable to set up track IR properly. 

9 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

In fairness Pattle answered my questions in another thread (which I don't think we're asked for devilment...?) Namely Blitz will receive the AI and other core upgrades and the weather will be updated after release which was also answered here. 

 

 

I wasnt pointing in your direction with the "devilment" thing. Just my observations about some questions asked over the past couple of years. I assume your questions were answered after you posted that they hadnt been. 

 

If you ever need any contribution, cash or otherwise, to a new SoW, please count me in. 

Edited by BOO

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All in! Only hoping the install doesn’t wipe my carefully assigned controller settings 🤪

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11 hours ago, simfan1998 said:

What do you mean? Don't you like the Ai handling their energy state like a normal person? Or the Ai using all possible angles in a fight?  Or that ai quits the fight when dammage occured or the fuel/ammo is low? Or maybe that the ai  wingman actually protect the leader?
I'm sure you'd prefer the ai turning horizontally at infinity and following you to you base when leaking fuel/oil and coolant at the same time.....:rolleyes:

Last time i tried blitz the enemy ai used eratic  maneuvers , they used all ammunition in one attack and then they headed for home without any defensive maneuvers.  Ai in cliffs of dover was absolutely atrocious. Maybe you are satisfied with it, I dont.

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I've been watching the updates on YouTube for the past year and am so glad to finally see it's coming!

 

I will be purchasing on day one, proud to be supporting TFS.

 

Is there a list of all the graphics/performance updates?

 

I've never played CLoD much, as I just got into BoX a couple years ago, and only bought CLoD out of curiosity as I think it was only $15 or $20 at the time (now that it's like $6.24 during sales, it's a no-brainer).  I always liked it and appreciated the differences, but the graphics just didn't do it for me and I really just played enough to experience the different planes.  It appears from pictures I've seen that it has been upgraded, so I am definitely looking forward to how it looks on my PC this summer.

 

 

Also, can anyone tell me what planes these are, and if they are flyable?

 

Screenshot (112).png

Screenshot (114).png

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First one is He-115 torpedo bomber (also used by Norway and Sweden among others).

Second one is Supermarine Walrus, great to spawn in for pilots ejecting over water.

Both are AI only.

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