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Discussion of IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk Announcement

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By the way, for those who are interested in the Martlet, the following are the general characteristics.  These aircraft generally got a reputation for being not very maneuverable, because they were primarily up against Zeros... but in fact the Zero would make any aircraft look bad in a close in Dogfight.  Up against European aircraft, the Martlet is more than capable in a nasty in your face knife fight.

 

-  Excellent turn rate, superior to most Italian and German types with the exception of the CR.42 and possibly the G.50.  Comparable or slightly better than the Spit V.

 

-  A bit lazy on the ailerons at low speed.... it actually has a very large wing area... but the stiffness and heavy build of the wing and lack of flex means the rollrate remains excellent at high speed.

 

-  Not the fastest aircraft... speed is better at low altitudes... fairly comparable to the 100 octane Hurricane I in performance.

 

-  Climb is similar to Spit IA's.

 

-  Excellent range... carries a very large amount of fuel compared to German/RAF/Italian types... so can reduce fuel load considerably and still have a good combat range.

 

-  Excellent dive speed.... no more diving away for 109's to escape a turnfight... the Martlet will out dive them...  so this is a weapon on either the attack or as a defensive failsafe escape...  although not against the Macchi C.202.

 

-  Good guns.... not devastating, but accurate and powerful enough to kill any fighter in short order.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, II./JG27_Rich said:

Stubby    😁

I'm warnin you guys! Cut it out! You don't want to see me mad! I am gonna to have to strap on my BEAUTIFUL Martlet and come on MP and teach a few of you Jerry flyboys a thang or to!:angry:

Buzzsaw, I am reading in the link you posted and am finding it amazing that basically the Martlet could hold it's own against a Spitty and was at the very least as good as a Hurricane. What I am reading is still about the Martlet I none the less. I think in the right hands she will be a surprising handful for the Axis pilots.

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister
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Just now, BladeMeister said:

I'm warnin you guys! I am goin strap on

 

S!Blade<><

Fify!

  Look out!  He's armed!

 

(I *think* that's an arm)

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13 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Pilots,

 

You can discuss the official Desert Wings Announcement here in this thread.

 

Jason

Hello, I waited with such anticipation and was so excited to hear this announcement only to read that it apparently has OS min req of windows 10. The base game runs on windows 7 which I own of course and this is an addon so that can't be right? All of Il-2 Great Battles series which I also  own is modern with VR capability and yet they run on windows 7.  I kept windows 7 for il2-1946 and other older games. Please tell me this is not correct???  Thanks, Dave

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, dfreitas said:

Hello, I waited with such anticipation and was so excited to hear this announcement only to read that it apparently has OS min req of windows 10. The base game runs on windows 7 which I own of course and this is an addon so that can't be right? All of Il-2 Great Battles series which I also  own is modern with VR capability and yet they run on windows 7.  I kept windows 7 for il2-1946 and other older games. Please tell me this is not correct???  Thanks, Dave

 

 

I ran Cliffs of Dover on 8.1 original downgraded to 7 for performance boost then upgraded to 10.

 

Windows 10 ran Cliffs of Dover best on my machine. The horizon line for example looked best on Windows 10.

 

Best to worst on below parts, Win 10 = best, 7 was good and 8.1 had micro stutters.

 

I7 4770K

GTX 970

32 gig ram

Asus Mximus VII Mobo

 

My rig is older. Upgraded to 1080GTX since leaving Cliffs when ATAG emptied out.

 

Edited by ACG_Smokejumper

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I hear you about windows 10, just saying logic would dictate that it should run on windows 7 as well.  I can't be alone in not making the switch yet so missing sales potential and now personally with employment situation due to covid, I'm not about to spring for a new OS as well. Guess I will have to wait........

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18 minutes ago, dfreitas said:

Hello, I waited with such anticipation and was so excited to hear this announcement only to read that it apparently has OS min req of windows 10. The base game runs on windows 7 which I own of course and this is an addon so that can't be right? All of Il-2 Great Battles series which I also  own is modern with VR capability and yet they run on windows 7.  I kept windows 7 for il2-1946 and other older games. Please tell me this is not correct???  Thanks, Dave

 

Microsoft support for Win7 ended in January this year. To provide support for it would require testing software on an operating system with no security updates etc. Software that requires internet access. Not something that any responsible software developer should consider doing without a very good reason. If you want to risk connecting an insecure system online, that is down to you - but you shouldn't expect other people to take the same risk. 

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Great news! What a massive expansion!

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32 minutes ago, dfreitas said:

I hear you about windows 10, just saying logic would dictate that it should run on windows 7 as well.  I can't be alone in not making the switch yet so missing sales potential and now personally with employment situation due to covid, I'm not about to spring for a new OS as well. Guess I will have to wait........

 

I've run it on Win7 I don't see a reason why it would stop working but then I swing a hammer for a living so..... I could be wrong.

28 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Microsoft support for Win7 ended in January this year. To provide support for it would require testing software on an operating system with no security updates etc. Software that requires internet access. Not something that any responsible software developer should consider doing without a very good reason. If you want to risk connecting an insecure system online, that is down to you - but you shouldn't expect other people to take the same risk. 

 

See.   :P

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8 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

And we hope to have VR implemented for those who enjoy the 3D experience early in the New Year.

 

Great news! Congrats on releasing Tobruk, and good luck with the continued work on both it and Cliffs. I have CoD and am waiting for VR support. I am one of those guys who can't go back to 2D sims after my time spent in VR. When Tobruk gets VR, I will gladly purchase it.

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Arthur A does make valid point I suppose. However, I do see new upcoming games on Steam just like Desert WIngs that still list windows 7 as a min req (not the majority but there are some - see for yourself). So if they can do it, then I don't think I am out of line to expect a game that is an "addon" to the base game which is windows 7 to include it for this last iteration.

 

This has been in development a very very long time so you would think it was being developed with all the windows platforms in mind so this just came as a surprise to me. At worst, adding a disclaimer about windows 7 related issues was not an option?   I guess that means Il2 Battle of Normandy then will not be able to run on windows 7 facing similar situation then? 

Maybe it will run on windows 7 but will not be included as a min req for for liability issues.   

 

ACg_Smokejumpe, are you playing this already as a testor? 

Sorry, I meant to credit AndyJwest for his response about windows 7 out of support as valid point.  

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7 minutes ago, dfreitas said:

Arthur A does make valid point I suppose. However, I do see new upcoming games on Steam just like Desert WIngs that still list windows 7 as a min req (not the majority but there are some - see for yourself). So if they can do it, then I don't think I am out of line to expect a game that is an "addon" to the base game which is windows 7 to include it for this last iteration.

 

This has been in development a very very long time so you would think it was being developed with all the windows platforms in mind so this just came as a surprise to me. At worst, adding a disclaimer about windows 7 related issues was not an option?   I guess that means Il2 Battle of Normandy then will not be able to run on windows 7 facing similar situation then? 

Maybe it will run on windows 7 but will not be included as a min req for for liability issues.   

 

ACg_Smokejumpe, are you playing this already as a testor? 

Sorry, I meant to credit AndyJwest for his response about windows 7 out of support as valid point.  

We will not offer Windows 7 support for either the updated BLITZ or DESERT WINGS - TOBRUK.

 

W7 is no longer supported by Windows. 

 

It is the same situation with Windows XP... the original game supported it back in 2011.... but when Windows dropped support, we dropped our support.

1 hour ago, dfreitas said:

Hello, I waited with such anticipation and was so excited to hear this announcement only to read that it apparently has OS min req of windows 10. The base game runs on windows 7 which I own of course and this is an addon so that can't be right? All of Il-2 Great Battles series which I also  own is modern with VR capability and yet they run on windows 7.  I kept windows 7 for il2-1946 and other older games. Please tell me this is not correct???  Thanks, Dave

You can still upgrade to W10 for free if you do a search of the Microsoft site.

 

Windows no longer supports W7.... there is no way we can do updates for a system which is no longer supported.

 

We cannot leave the game static and all the users who have W10 hanging and waiting for updates.

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Posted (edited)

Hmmmmmm, well I guess this is not a first day purchase for me as I run Windows 7. It is what it is, but how does IL2 GBS series still work on my windows 7 system? Am I understanding something wrong here? So will DWT run on Windows 7 or not?

 

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

Hmmmmmm, well I guess this is not a first day purchase for me as I run Windows 7. It is what it is, but how does IL2 GBS series still work on my windows 7 system? Am I understanding something wrong here?

 

S!Blade<><

 

If it still works, that is because because it was developed when Win7 was supported. I'd be surprised if the developers still test updates on Win7, for the reasons already given. Don't be surprised if it stops working.

Edited by AndyJWest

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Thanks to all you talented folks at TFS for putting your hearts and souls into a game we both love. I have been anxiously waiting for this announcement and the day when I can hit "buy and download". I know this game still looks as good as anything out there and its power to handle huge MP servers is what has me going.  It's going to be a blast! Ready for SOW!

:salute:

skud

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10 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

People whining about VR, missions/campaign or whatever [edited]. Negativity off the scale and putting down the product before it is even released is up to astounding levels. Why? CloD has it's place and I am grateful it is getting v5.0 soon. A refreshing change with a early / midwar plane set and a seldom visited theatre of operations. 

 


But, this is a discussion forum, where people discuss the announcement of this new game!

This is precisely where this stuff needs to be discussed, as it's a finger on the pulse of the community which will be supporting it.

Also, the overwhelming majority of comments I've read about future VR implementation have been positive.
I might be able to explain a bit better how I feel about it.
The game looks great, and I'm hoping it will be a success. But if I buy it on release day it would only be on the *hope* of future VR support. As much as I wish i was made of money, I can't do that. As the simple fact is, that I won't be playing the game if it's not in VR. This is not entitled, or whining, this is just my only interest and my only incentive to play. 

I can understand that it might be frustrating to hear as it sounds like multiple people are "blackmailing" the devs to include VR before they hand over their money. But i see it from the other perspective. A loyal niche, within a niche of gaming who are excited for more content to play! They can't wait, and they want to mention it in the discussion forum. 

It would be a colossal shame if the game wasn't as financially successful as anticipated, and therefore wasn't able to fund the addition of the VR integration, but if that's the case, then it won't be the fault of the VR players.

Anyway, I hope that clears up my reasoning for posting about VR support, and I hope you can see that it comes from a positive place.

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Thanks Buzzaw, well that answers that question quite definitively. Are you sure Windows 10 is still free though, I checked the website and you need to have a license already to make a download unless I am missing it? 

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^ With Win 10 Media Creation Tool and creating bootable USB stick, you might be able to install 10 using your original Win 7 key. Although it's officially not quite supported, MS seems to be turning blind eye on people doing it. Worked for many guys (including me, this spring, even with OEM version key), so it might work for you too. You've got nothing to loose if you try.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dfreitas said:

I hear you about windows 10, just saying logic would dictate that it should run on windows 7 as well.

No, not really. No sane developer would support a platform for which the official support has been dropped. Time to switch to Windows 10.

 

Edit: and to the people saying "it's 10+ years old engine":
On May 7, 2009, Rise of Flight was officially released in Russia with Russian publisher ND Games.

Il-2 GB is a development of the engine used in RoF. Han had a nice analogy where he compared developing the game engine to development of the Toyota Corolla; small improvements along the years to build a better car. Some six months ago, I bought a brand new Corolla, and it's a damn fine car. Hoping to see CloD (and GB too) reach the quality of the Corolla in the future :)

Edited by LLv34_Temuri
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

I saw that Dutch!:P

 

S!Blade<><

Now in normal font

 I did not wanting to go on, into any negative mood for this game spoiled by a missing VRmode, as for monitor players it is still a great game that is absolutely equal to BoX series. So for me a nice reading from Jason that VR is in the “picture”.  I know the most players are non-VR users like you, but I know the same old song is repeating: if ever being infected by (good) VR you never go back. 

😎

Edited by Dutch2
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8 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

 

Whoever called the Martlet "stubby"

should get the Ban Hammer!!!

Buzzsaw, that is no term of endearment! Stop trying to sherk the responsibility!

 

 


I think the Marketing guys/women tried to avoid the 3 forbidden names in the sim software world, so they had to make a workaround to not pay enormous royalties to the 3 TradeMark-Trolls companies that won't hesitate to send a whole Lawyer Army to  1C offices within the hour, won't write their name here because otherwiser, myself will have to pay for it, but i think you know what companies we are talking about :biggrin: "NORTHTROPiCaL" -- "GRU$$MAN"--"BOING-BOING"

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I want to know what upgrades are included in Blitz5.0?
The new planes in DW are looking good,
But I am also worried about the gap between the new and old aircraft, and about the UI and the core of the game, are there any updates that can be disclosed?

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2 minutes ago, Oyster_KAI said:

I want to know what upgrades are included in Blitz5.0?
The new planes in DW are looking good,
But I am also worried about the gap between the new and old aircraft, and about the UI and the core of the game, are there any updates that can be disclosed?

There is no gap between old and new aircraft.

 

The new module picks up in October of 1940 where CoD ended... and continues through to June 1942 in the Desert and August 1941 on the Channel front.

 

The list of new aircraft is in the updates.

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Thanks for that Martlet link Buzzaw.

I got a bit surprised by this note:

 

Quote

The Royal Navy again found that the performance was lower than that claimed ... but the ability to reach 305mph at 15,000ft and about 285mph at sea level meant that its Martlet was the fastes fighter available until mid-1941.

 

Gotta love that stubby little thing 😄

 

If you all don't mind I will no go hide from BM.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, theOden said:

Thanks for that Martlet link Buzzaw.

I got a bit surprised by this note:

 

I think what the note means is that it was the fastest carrier-borne fighter available to the FAA in 1940/41. If you look at what else they had available at the time (Sea Gladiator, Blackburn Skua & Roc) this may very well have been the fastest one at the time of its service entry.

Edited by JG4_Karaya

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2 hours ago, Art-J said:

^ With Win 10 Media Creation Tool and creating bootable USB stick, you might be able to install 10 using your original Win 7 key. Although it's officially not quite supported, MS seems to be turning blind eye on people doing it. Worked for many guys (including me, this spring, even with OEM version key), so it might work for you too. You've got nothing to loose if you try.

 

It's actually even easier than that. I upgraded my laptop and my gaming rig from 7 to 10 using the "Windows 10 Update Assistant". It basically copies everything, deletes Windows 7, and installs Windows 10. You're left with your same files and documents, but running Windows 10. Back up of important stuff is a good idea though.

 

Download it from the Microsoft web page and it does everything for you. Your original Windows 7 key will allow you to activate it. The only issue I had was a few weeks later, when I bought a new motherboard and swapped it in. I still got it activated, but it required a 5 minute conversation with a MS rep and then it was fine.

 

There are also good videos out there to help you optimise Windows 10 and basically turn off a load of stuff you don't need.

 

No regrets about making the change and I really liked Windows 7 !

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An undeniable contribution to the large Il2 family, truly original aircraft such as the Dewoitine 520 or the Wellington, never even seen under "Il2 Forgotten Battle", the first in the series ... but a little disappointed anyway not compatible with Great Battles .... With the weight of amateurs maybe it will become it .. ?? Or a mod will allow it maybe ... ??

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5 hours ago, PhunkaeG said:

can understand that it might be frustrating to hear as it sounds like multiple people are "blackmailing" the devs to include VR before they hand over their money.

 

I don't think this is an attempt to blackmail developers. I think it is simply a business, the developers offer their product and value it at the price they consider appropriate, the buyers see the product and if they like it or don't like it they buy it or not, that is their decision. Each party does what they want, one sells a product and the other part buy or not, so easy. It's like when you go to buy bread, you buy the one you like.

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30 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Alado said:

 

 It's like when you go to buy bread, you buy the one you like.

but you dont flypost over the baker's window with all your reasons why you dont buy the bread. Nor do you continue to flypost if the baker says they may be changing the recepie in future if the business survives on what they are able to make now. And would you continue to demand currents in your buns when the baker has already told you there are currents or they currently have no currents of the brand you like available? 

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Nice to see a DLC for CoD,- a game with such a potential, but mismanaged from the start.

Will buy whenever a Career-mode is possible,- not interested in MP or scripted campaigns.

Cheers,

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Most of the time the vis in VR is pretty crap but I would really be pushed to the limit to go back to a monitor and trackIR....I'll jump on this when VR is enabled. Good job to the devs. S!

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21 minutes ago, BOO said:

but you dont flypost over the baker's window with all your reasons why you dont buy the bread. Nor do you continue to flypost if the baker says they may be changing the recepie in future if the business survives on what they are able to make now. And would you continue to demand currents in your buns when the baker has already told you there are currents or they currently have no currents of the brand you like available? 

When I go to buy the bread, I look and if I don't like it I don't buy it and nothing else. I can tell you why I don't buy it, because it is big, because it is small, because it is integral or because it has sunflower seeds, etc., and the baker will do with his bread whatever he wants, he will listen to me  or not, what is clear is that the bread belongs to the baker and the money is mine, each one who does what they want

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20 minutes ago, BOO said:

but you dont flypost over the baker's window with all your reasons why you dont buy the bread. Nor do you continue to flypost if the baker says they may be changing the recepie in future if the business survives on what they are able to make now. And would you continue to demand currents in your buns when the baker has already told you there are currents or they currently have no currents of the brand you like available? 

Then again, this is a discussion thread, positive and negative reactions are meant to happen.

 

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18 hours ago, BOO said:

After Boddenplatte Im just happy that there is an alternative. 

 

A different theatre is very welcome, but the release will be polarised between those using VR and those who don't.  The price point is a big disincentive too.  Personally speaking $70 is simply too much for a game that won't be used until VR is implemented.

 

This is without adding in the other issues that CLOD has always had - incredibly resource hungry weather systems, dodgy AI, a clunky system overall and critically a horrendously long development cycle.  I can't imagine even the dedicated CLOD multiplayers wanting to fly over the desert for over a year.

 

It's a wait and see for me.

 

von Tom

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The «blackmail» post do not affect the mood on TF. They worked for years with this , they know what going on and are used to pathetic posts like that. 
They are well aware about the existence of VR. 

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1 minute ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

The «blackmail» post do not affect the mood on TF. They worked for years with this , they know what going on and are used to pathetic posts like that. 
They are well aware about the existence of VR. 

What blackmail are you refering to ? People stating they won't buy because of no-VR support ?
That's not blackmail, that's just an opinion.

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