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Gunter_Severloh

Flying Stuka Frustration - Stuka wants to nose dive without me (Autopilot off)

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Posted (edited)

Hello fellow pilots,

Gunter here rather new to the game as of late April, been flying on and off since, and only the Stuka mainly with the bk37 gunpods attached.

   I actually normally fly in Arma3 with the Stuka with the bk 37 gunpods, been flying in the arma series on and off for 20yrs but with m & kb, i know its not

the same as IL-2 but i can show you how i fly when i play with my coop group seen here

 

 Anyways what i been playing is a training mission i created in the editor on the Kuban map, i just placed several vehicles, couple of gunboats, some tanks in various areas

and some bombers + couple of fighters, and an AA gun where i been flying, and engaging them, and i find myself improving on engaging and destroying them. 😉

    Mission has no wind, and its about 2pm in the afternoon.

 

        The problem is after about say 20min of flying, after have destroyed several targets, and flying towards the next one or one of choice, sometimes the

plane decides or it seems to fly itself (autopilot is off, not even checked in the realism settings) and the plane does a sharp turn in either direction,

and i end up doing close to a nose dive where pulling out of it is almost impossible, this happens almost every time i fly and i cant

make heads or tails of what causes it.

 

I fly with Track IR 5 Pro and a stick the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro which actually i just received Friday, was using the Logitech Attack 3 before, but i have the

majority of controls, mapped, and the sensitivities to about where i want them at least for now, you maybe wondering what my realism settings are set at.

 

      Heres a screenshot of what i have set at least for this past mission i just did, i have it set to invulnerable so as to focus on gunnery.

20200614061034_1.thumb.jpg.7571d6ff2d52013a010e326fd433d356.jpg

I'm wondering

if the simplified physics, physiology, controls, or the rudder assist is possibly causing this issue, or could it be something else?

Also for my stick sensitivities this is what i have set if it makes any difference:

Pitch: 40%

Roll: 30%

Yaw: 60%

    These feel pretty good to me and allow me to line up targets fairly well, flying itself seems ok but i feel like theres something im missing,

i mean the plane is slow, speed i fly at mostly is about 250-300km/hr, my average height when engaging is about 300-400m. 

 

Trying to get height with the plane is very hard, highest i've gotten the thing was about 450m of course i wasn't really trying.

       I'm still new to flying in terms of using a joystick, not really interested so much in the realism aspects of the flying, like all the

engine management and intricate details of it im just interesting in the air to ground engagements and skill of it. 

 

    I'm not sure what else to do or adjust or tweak for my controls in terms of this small issue where the decides to turn on me then all a sudden

im in a nose dive, and this is not touching any buttons or keys, plane is level, engine is at about 71%-82% throttle.

 

Anyone have any ideas? What do i need to adjust, turn off, or on, or not do to fix this?

    

Edited by Gunter_Severloh

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Posted (edited)

Suddenly flying a curve and rolling away downwards? Hardware issue. Joystick. Joystick's mapping software?

 

Check if your USB controller goes into energy saving mode. Disable that.

 

 

StuKa is an amiable to fly plane. It basically flies itself even, getting it to crash is difficult. None of the behavior your described is an in-game function, so you need to look at your System. Good luck!

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Posted (edited)

I fliwn the JU 87 a lot but not that often with gun pods. It do not behave like that in my setup. 
As I understand it you do not have rudderpedals nor twist grip on your stick. 
so you use rudder assist. 
You have simplified physics and just about anything on auto. 
Since no problem occurs before 20 minutes have passed. 
Are you sure you do not have autopilot on and a weird setting on a specific waypoint? 
Another thing is , you seem to be dedicated, why not try to switch off simplified physics and all auto stuff and see if it happen again

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Suddenly flying a curve and rolling away downwards? Hardware issue. Joystick. Joystick's mapping software?

Ya most of the time when i am turning around to reengage a target, either climbing or diving, its mostly on climbing turns, most times

i can control it and level the plane, i try to make sure i have enough throttle, but then if i turn to sharp the plane will turn on itself.

       I looked for the joystick on my computer and found it, it had a setting where you can calibrate it, maybe that is what i didn't do, as i didn't do that

with my other joystick, im new to using a joystick, and flying sims and had no idea you needed to calibrate it, so i did and things in the calibration are set.

      Need to test now how the plane responds ingame.

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Check if your USB controller goes into energy saving mode. Disable that.

I see no such option, im on win 10x64.

59 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

As I understand it you do not have rudderpedals nor twist grip on your stick. 

The stick i have now can twist for the rudder, so with that being there, i then shouldn't need rudder assist correct?

I mean thats ideally used if you dont have that yaw function or twisting ability on your stick right?

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Since no problem occurs before 20 minutes have passed. 

Well its not time based really, i said 20min because im normally flying for about 20min and manage to have no issues,

i think it might be i haven't calibrated my joystick which could be the primary cause, but the sharp turn and nose dive happens when im mainly turning

around to reengage a target i just strafed.

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Are you sure you do not have autopilot on and a weird setting on a specific waypoint? 

No as you can see in the screenshot i turned all autopilots off, even in key mapping for plane control, i turned those settings off.

In my mission i have no waypoints for any of the placed vehicles, they are just set where they are on the map, as static objects,

just there for me to practice lining up my sights, and adjusting the plane's, height, speed ect,. to destroy it.

                   I also play on quick missions and the same issue occurs its the result of me turning, one time i had low throttle and that did it

so i learned from that, but most times its just odd curves i make, again from what SCG_Fenris_Wolf suggested is its probably due

joystick not being calibrated.

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Another thing is , you seem to be dedicated, why not try to switch off simplified physics and all auto stuff and see if it happen again

I could but then there is a ton of new things i would need to learn.

 

I calibrated my joystick and going to look at the joystick manual again to make sure i didn't miss anything, ill make the adjustments and test it

out and then reply back after my test, to let you guys know how things went.  Thanks for your insights and help! Cheers!

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Gunter_Severloh said:

Ya most of the time when i am turning around to reengage a target, either climbing or diving, its mostly on climbing turns, most times

i can control it and level the plane, i try to make sure i have enough throttle, but then if i turn to sharp the plane will turn on itself.

 

i think it might be i haven't calibrated my joystick which could be the primary cause, but the sharp turn and nose dive happens when im mainly turning

around to reengage a target i just strafed.

 

 

 

If your hardware is not malfunctioning that sounds like you are stalling the aircraft - you are too slow and/or too high angle of attack when you are making sharp turns.  I do not know how your automatic helpers deal with that.  Try to turn less aggressively and see if it cures the problem.  

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The Ju-87 Stuka seems flawed since the last update...

When I select in the hangar and attempt to change skins...the plane model in the hangar is

all blurry and fuzzy looking.

 

Same applies to the instruments/cockpit view.

 

Then when you attempt to try a different aircraft...the fuzzy/blurry aircraft is in the hangar.

 

Then upon exit the simulation...total freeze.

 

I've let the devs know of the problem...they say it's an uncommon bug with the Stuka.

 

So I'm staying away from it until they resolve the issue.

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2 minutes ago, Atlantia39 said:

The Ju-87 Stuka seems flawed since the last update...

When I select in the hangar and attempt to change skins...the plane model in the hangar is

all blurry and fuzzy looking.

 

Same applies to the instruments/cockpit view.

 

Then when you attempt to try a different aircraft...the fuzzy/blurry aircraft is in the hangar.

 

Then upon exit the simulation...total freeze.

 

I've let the devs know of the problem...they say it's an uncommon bug with the Stuka.

 

So I'm staying away from it until they resolve the issue.

I had this too. I installed newest driver from nvidia. I believed that what caused it. 
I could select skin for first mission then I could not. Or I could but ended up with default and my instruments was unreadable. I believed I fixed it with driver install, but never went back to the stuka after that. Other planes worked well

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35 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

If your hardware is not malfunctioning that sounds like you are stalling the aircraft - you are too slow and/or too high angle of attack when you are making sharp turns.  I do not know how your automatic helpers deal with that.  Try to turn less aggressively and see if it cures the problem.  

Interesting thought, never occurred to me the plane could be stalling, but ya i calibrated my joystick, and just finished a half hour run on my mission killing most of the targets

i actually found it alot easier now to fly and not once instance of the odd sharp curve to a nose dive.

I will keep that in mind not to turn to aggressively after all its not a plane meant for fast, tight flying.

26 minutes ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

Turn off the assistance and try again.

Will test it out thanks!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

Turn off the assistance and try again.

I did this, thing is right now im not really interested in the sim detailed aspects of starting and or maintain a

plane before and during flight, it is interesting no doubt, just not something i want to do right now.

       Anyways only things i kept on was the radiator, engine and throttle, what im not understanding is when i untick the

simplified controls box for the realism settings, and get in the air my plane wants to pitch down, i can pull back on the stick

and maintain the flight that way but as soon as i let go the plane wants to go down.

 

From what i understand the elevators control the pitch, how do i setup controls for the elevators to prevent the plane

from diving forward on its own, without the use of the simplified controls box in the realism settings?

    Also assuming i set two controls correctly for the elevators idk if they actually do anything when i do fly, as i dont see any actual movement in the elevators

but aside that the plane wants to slowly pull to the right a little, even when on the runway at high speed trying to take off it wants to pull right slightly.

Edited by Gunter_Severloh

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Posted (edited)

I see in your original post that you have been used to playing Stuka in Arma3.  This game is a much more detailed simulation of flight, and if you want to master it you are going to have to learn more than the basics of how an aeroplane flies and how it is controlled.  It is quite a steep learning curve if you start with a WW2 aircraft.

 

Pulling to one side on the a take off run up, for instance, is due mainly to the airflow from the prop being a spiral, rather than just a jet going straight back, so it pushes more on one side of the tail than the other. At low speeds this can cause the pull to one side.  And so on.

 

Pitch is controlled by the joystick and the elevator trim.  Trim is a little tab that sets the response of the control surface to airflow. Google it.  Look in Settings - Key Bindings - Plane Control (IIRC) and look for "elevator trim up" and "elevator trim down" or similar.  Stuka also has rudder trim IIRC.  So once you ahve identified the keys for these trim controls, you should be able to set your trim to fly straight and level, hands off the stick, at cruise speed.

 

Find something like the "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" from the FAA online and get reading.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by unreasonable
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2 hours ago, unreasonable said:

Find something like the "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" from the FAA online and get reading.  

Thanks i found that book in a pdf format per chapter, and have been reading alot

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak/

 

In my research i also ran into Col Ninny's How to fly tutorials

which i have been watching and applying those things he talks about.

 

      Among the pdf, and Col Ninny's tutorials i believe i discovered the cause to my original issue with the plane taking a sudden sharp

turn and then nose diving, Col Ninny explained at about 7:00 That more angle of bank the more lift you lose, so you have to keep your nose above the horizon, 

which i wasn't doing as most times i was either below the horizon or basically my wings were at 90 degrees with no possible way to gain lift.

 

      I dont think i stalled as was mentioned before as i still had control and the engine was still running, i had throttle yet

problem was most of my sharp turns were in low altitudes around 100-200m, when the plane yanked me into a nose dive i had little room to level out and pull up.

    Lesson learned, just need to practice more proper or better turn and banking when i fly, would also probably help to fly other planes to

get a feel of and or different perspectives on the dynamics of flying, allowing me to adapt and or crossover to other planes.

 

    My goal now is to learn to obviously adjust my flying accordingly but now also work on setting up my controls better, setup trimming,

and then expand further into propeller pitch, and possibly engine management.    Thanks for the insights and information Unreasonable.

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Maybe you want to check the Requiem Air Tutorials.

In this case the "How To fly the Stuka"

 

Indeed you cant compare e.g. Iron Front Stuka flight model with BoX,maybe with the prequel Il2 1946...not really.

Simplified controls compares to "regular" in Arma...

So take a look at the video(s) and things getting clear very quick without wasting time in frustration 😉

 

However keep in mind if you start a mission as airstart, the plane will be controlled by default in "auto level" (not "auto pilot") as long as you give it rudder input.

This is moment you start controlling the aircraft.

However autolevel is a key mapping to enable a comfortable feature for every difficulty setting...leaving the hardcore simulation aspect beside here.

Maybe keep an eye on trims and automatic dive in the settings, or in one of Requiem Videos, if your plane still keeps diving.

I presume your axes are correct assigned....to be tested best on runway start.

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22 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

Maybe you want to check the Requiem Air Tutorials.

Ya i know about this video and the others, i have all the Stuka tutorials downloaded so i can view them while ingame,

can also do that on utube too but i have a folder for flying where i have quick access. But thanks for reminding me about it i been

a bit absorbed with just working on some of the basics from Col Ninny on keeping my nose to the horizon and such.

     Still setting controls for trim and other things too as i go and learn, its funny i've invested 3 weeks into flying so far.

23 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

Indeed you cant compare e.g. Iron Front Stuka flight model with BoX,maybe with the prequel Il2 1946...not really.

Simplified controls compares to "regular" in Arma...

So take a look at the video(s) and things getting clear very quick without wasting time in frustration

               Ya for sure!, Arma3 is hardly a flight sim, there are some aspects but nothing like IL-2's.   Stuka i fly is from the Secret Weapons mod if your familiar with it?

Because only that mod has the 37mm Pylon Cannons, the Iron front Stuka which i have flown a little doesn't have them.

 

23 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

However keep in mind if you start a mission as airstart, the plane will be controlled by default in "auto level" (not "auto pilot") as long as you give it rudder input.

Ya i had this in quick missions, but i like to take control of the aircraft right away, i dont care for autopilot, thats like playing a game

and 3/4 of it is cinematic scenes after you played for 10min in it, linear AI do everything for you, and here im like hey guys can

i play, nah i'll do the flying, i didn't put her up in the air just so i can sit back and watch the scenery ;)

 

23 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

Maybe keep an eye on trims and automatic dive in the settings

Automatic dive? thats new, tbh i dont recall seeing such a key, maybe the automatic pull up after a dive?

23 hours ago, 1./JG42Nephris said:

I presume your axes are correct assigned

So far, pitch, roll, and yaw are set, im still tweaking the sensitivities as i go, and i'm still working on the best controls in terms of access

for the elevators and other trims too.

 

Little offtopic but had to stop typing here as i just got a new book in the mail, this is what i received:

Junkers Ju 87D/G: Volume 2 (Monographs 3D Edition)

This book has alot of phots of the ACE pilots, lots of photos of Rudel i've never seen before, and photos of the Ju87 bk guns

i've never seen before either, book is fantastic.

Author has a ton of other books like it for all sorts of planes  ------>   LINK

 

I been reading this book as of late, received it in April Stuka Pilot

 

 

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