190 A-6 and Bf 109 G-6 Late

[CountZero 1980]

G10 be coming with late war east front DLC, they cant just be making 109s willy nilly when every DLC haz to have atleast one of them, who would be buying DLCs without 109s, if japanese had uzed atleast one squad of 109s in burma or new guinea we would already be there 😄

Edited June 12, 2020 by CountZero

[sevenless 2330]

14 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Where is the G10-Erla?!

 

That would only fit in a late war scenario. Operational intro was 10/44, so hope for an eastfront expansion or a collector plane. Same is true for the G14/AS.

[=621=Samikatz 554]

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 if japs had uzed atleast one squad of 109s in burma or new guinea we would already be there 😄

 

The Ki-61 uses a DB601, it's like the 109's cousin, sorta, kinda, maybe

[esk_pedja 206]

In a few words, we would end up in west 1944 without G10... ☹️,  just with outdated G6 with a higher rudder... 

Edited June 13, 2020 by esk_pedja

[Avimimus 625]

17 hours ago, oc2209 said:

As for Spitfires, I feel the same about the Mk. V. I'd rather see a Mk I or II just to fly the Spitfire at its absolute cleanest configuration; and also to experience the frustration of having only .30 cal guns. Alternatively, the Mk XIV Griffon will be quite different in handling and performance.

 

 

Ah... but if you've read about the Mediterranean then the Spit V is a classic. Perhaps of greater relevance, if one has read about the cross-channel fights against early Fw-190s and the attempt to lure the Luftwaffe into a giant air battle over the landings of 10,000 at Dieppe on August 19, 1942 - then it becomes essential for the Normandy map as well.

 

Without the Dieppe raid the story of Normandy is quite incomplete. The Spit V was the most important allied airplane in that great gambit.

 

[216th_LuseKofte 3708]

1 hour ago, pfrances said:

I will always be excited for a new 109 but the list of variants is running thin. The one that has my heart is still out there though. Where is the G10-Erla?!

Next time. They are not finnish with Europe. I bet Italy next with a flyable B 25. 

[40plus 1062]

6 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Next time. They are not finnish with Europe. I bet Italy next with a flyable B 25. 

Don't tease me like that!!! It would be a dream come true. G10, b25 Italy! Argh, dare to dream.

[SAS_Storebror 1265]

3 hours ago, 361st_Hirachi said:

I was hoping at some point we would see a FW 190A9 with a 801 ts engine (1.82 ata) and a BF 109G10 even if they are standalone add on.

 

2 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I wish for a Ta152 though

 

Why does it always have to be late, later late, latest late and way-too-late stuff?

That's a dead end.

Early PTO would be a really great new sequel to the series, but probably a bit too large of a throw.

Battle of France would be cool if it has to be in the west, finnish border wars or battle of poland if we could get back to the east.

There'd be lots of kitest that could be added to the mix, like early 109 E models or even the D, then we could us some early hurricanes and a couple more I-16 and Lagg-3 versions, just to mention the planes where other versions of exist already.

Add a couple of completely new kites to that mix and you get some real cool WW2 action back, without all that fancy super-sophisticated 45 stuff.

 

Mike

[216th_LuseKofte 3708]

6 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Don't tease me like that!!! It would be a dream come true. G10, b25 Italy! Argh, dare to dream.

Well I cant see a better way to keep momentum. Think about it

1 minute ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Why does it always have to be late, later late, latest late and way-too-late stuff?

I agree totally. With this rate we be in Falkland conflict by the end of 2022

Speed is relevant so is armament. Bodenplatte has made expectation set to the wars two last week

[Raven109 192]

9 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

We might be getting this config shown below. It is the crate of Hptm. Mietusch CO of III./JG 26. A G6 with retrofitted Erlahood. Or the white 1 of 9./JG26 with tall tail. Maybe they add MW50, maybe not. Performance wise only MW 50 would make a difference to the already existing G6. All else is cosmetics.

 

 

 

 

Yes, well, my hope is that Late doesn't just mean an Erla haube. Perhaps, if we get the tall tail, some lateral stability could be added at some speeds. Or they could make the G6 collector plane a little bit more unstable, so that you feel a difference when inside the cockpit.

[sevenless 2330]

Just now, Raven109 said:

 

Yes, well, my hope is that Late doesn't just mean an Erla haube. Perhaps, if we get the tall tail, some lateral stability could be added at some speeds. Or they could make the G6 collector plane a little bit more unstable, so that you feel a difference when inside the cockpit.

 

Best would be to have three config options for the late plane, which you can use independantly:

- Erla hood

- Tall tail

- MW 50

[Raven109 192]

2 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Best would be to have three config options for the late plane, which you can use independantly:

- Erla hood

- Tall tail

- MW 50

 

And the AS/M as a collector plane. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Raven109

[JG13_opcode 444]

Just now, sevenless said:

 

Best would be to have three config options for the late plane, which you can use independantly:

- Erla hood

- Tall tail

- MW 50

 

Were any G-6 models with the tall tail ever fitted with a non-Erla canopy?

[Jaws2002 1577]

12 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

Yes, who needs them, right? 

 

That would be a great slogan to build interest: Luftwaffe Battle of Normandy: Who Needs Them Anyway!

 

 

10 hours ago, 76IAP-Black said:

Yeah you are right .. who needs some german planes

 

Where in my post did you see me say that this two planes are not needed? 

 They are coming anyway. I just said that I don't mind this two being released last, since they already have a ton of versions in game and some of them very similar. 

 Here's the list of planes for battle of Normandy:

 

P-51B/C

P-47D “Razorback”

Typhoon

Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI

Bf 109 G-6 “Late”

Fw 190 A-6

Ju 88 C-6a

Me 410

Spitfire Mk.XIV

Ar 234

 

Out of this list The BF-109G6 Late has, by far, the most similar versions in game. Eight BF-109s are already in the game!

Then the FW-190 has four versions in game already.

Yes, I  think this two could be left to the end of the list without ruining the game for anyone.  

 

I'd rather have them released in this order:

 1. Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI - There are no mosquitos in game yet, so .....

2. Arado 234 --first jet bomber. Nothing like it in the game. 

3. Typhoon -- not that far off from the Tempest, but nowhere near as close to it as the new German fighters are to their in game versions.

4. Ju 88 C6a  There's Ju88 in the game, but it's bomber. This one is pretty different.

5.  Spitfire Mk.XIV - there are two spits in game, but this one has solid performance advantage over them

6. P-51B/C 

7. P-47D “Razorback”

8. Me 410 - Interesting and different, but we have quite a few 110s in game, so i think it sits good in this position

9. Fw-190A6 -

10. Bf-109 G6 Late

 

 Obviously, we'll get them in the order they can make them, so this is a pointless discussion.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jaws2002

[sevenless 2330]

14 minutes ago, JG13_opcode said:

 

Were any G-6 models with the tall tail ever fitted with a non-Erla canopy?

 

Yes, see white 1 of 9/JG 26 above. Reason is that many G6s were retrofitted in the field with the hood.

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[Raven109 192]

2 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

 

Where in my post did you see me say that this two planes are not needed? 

 They are coming anyway. I just said that I don't mind this two being released last, since they already have a ton of versions in game and some of them very similar. 

 Here's the list of planes for battle of Normandy:

 

P-51B/C

P-47D “Razorback”

Typhoon

Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI

Bf 109 G-6 “Late”

Fw 190 A-6

Ju 88 C-6a

Me 410

Spitfire Mk.XIV

Ar 234

 

Out of this list The BF-109G6 Late has, by far, the most similar versions in game. Eight BF-109s are already in the game!

Then the FW-190 has four versions in game already.

Yes, I  think this two could be left to the end of the list without ruining the game for anyone.  

 

I'd rather have them released in this order:

 1. Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI - There are no mosquitos in game yet, so .....

2. Arado 234 --first jet bomber. Nothing like it in the game. 

3. Typhoon -- not that far off from the Tempest, but nowhere near as close to it as the new German fighters are to their in game versions.

4. Ju 88 C6a  There's Ju88 in the game, but it's bomber. This one is pretty different.

5.  Spitfire Mk.XIV - there are two spits in game, but this one has solid performance advantage over them

6. P-51B/C 

7. P-47D “Razorback”

8. Me 410 - Interesting and different, but we have quite a few 110s in game, so i think it sits good in this position

9. Fw-190A6 -

10. Bf-109 G6 Late

 

 Obviously, we'll get them in the order they can make them, so this is a pointless discussion.

 

 

 

I think most of these planes will be released at the same time, together with the theater. If you don't release the German fighters together with the theater, what will the blue side fly in the career?

[=420=Syphen 155]

7 minutes ago, JG13_opcode said:

 

Were any G-6 models with the tall tail ever fitted with a non-Erla canopy?

 

Some shown in the book  I was going through.  

[JG13_opcode 444]

Thanks, scrolled right past it.

[Jaws2002 1577]

10 hours ago, 76IAP-Black said:

Imagine, just for a second, maybe 2 seconds .. there are people out there, new to this game series and starting with Battle for Normandi 

 

Highly unlikely someone will start the series with the latest and most expensive addon in the game. Most people, when they try a new game, they  start with a cheaper version, that's already in sale and go from there.  Anyway, there are already a lot of preorder customers that would be more interested to try a different new plane, instead of a very small variation.

[Raven109 192]

3 minutes ago, JG13_opcode said:

Thanks, scrolled right past it.

 

The classic hood can easily be replaced with the Erla hood, and vice versa.

[Jaws2002 1577]

4 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

I think most of these planes will be released at the same time, together with the theater. If you don't release the German fighters together with the theater, what will the blue side fly in the career?

  

I was talking about the early release for the prerecord customers, if that's how they are going to be released.

[Avimimus 625]

Just a reminder:

 

We are getting three (3) German twin-engined aircraft (two of which are multiseat) and two (2) new variants of single-engined aircraft.

 

The allies are getting one (1) twin engined aircraft, one (1) new  single engined aircraft and three (3) new variants of single engined aircraft.

 

This is likely because almost all German single engined aircraft have already been modelled (Fw-190A9, Bf-109G10, He-162 are exceptions) so the developers have to go to the more expensive route of modelling twin engined aircraft to fill out the German stables. So, on the whole, the Luftwaffe is actually being favoured considerably in this expansion.

[sevenless 2330]

10 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

The allies are getting one (1) twin engined aircraft, one (1) new  single engined aircraft and three (3) new variants of single engined aircraft.

 

(3) twin engined aircraft. Mossie, B26 Marauder and C47 Dakota, if you also count the AI planes.

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[=420=Syphen 155]

5 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

(3) twin engined aircraft. Mossie, B26 Marauder and C47 Dakota, if you also count the AI planes.

 

Well in that case.. Bump the German single-engine number up to include the V-1 

[Stoopy 1053]

12 hours ago, 76IAP-Black said:

Imagine, just for a second, maybe 2 seconds .. there are people out there, new to this game series and starting with Battle for Normandi 

Yeah you are right .. who needs some german planes 

 

Isn't it true that in this scenario you suggest, someone new to the game and starting with Battle of Normandy wouldn't be able to fly anything since they would need the map, which is pretty much one of the last things to come out?    German planes or otherwise...?

 

The matter of what planes are released in what order is completely moot until the map comes along in this scenario.   

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[sevenless 2330]

10 minutes ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

 

Well in that case.. Bump the German single-engine number up to include the V-1 

 

Absolutely forgot about that thing. I´m interested how hunting them down with the Mk. XIV will turn out. Maybe we´ll need the Meteor for that business?

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[RedKestrel 3586]

4 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Isn't it true that in this scenario you suggest, someone new to the game and starting with Battle of Normandy wouldn't be able to fly anything since they would need the map, which is pretty much one of the last things to come out?    German planes or otherwise...?

 

The matter of what planes are released in what order is completely moot until the map comes along in this scenario.   

 

I think everyone gets a basic small map to fly a plane on if they preorder a module with no map just yet. So they could fly whatever planes were released in QMB or online where they don't need to own the maps. 

But vanishingly few people are going to pre-order BoN, not buy anything else, and then be crushingly disappointed when the german fighters aren't first released.

For BoN only people: The P-47D-22 will be right there! Just fly that one! I promise the 109G-6(late) will understand, it knows you're a red blooded human with needs.

 

[FliegerAD 15]

5 hours ago, Rjel said:

The only other single engine German fighter i think is needed is the 109G10.

 

Maybe, but there are a few other, reasonable options left:

Bf 109 G14/AS

Bf 109 T2

Fw 190 A9.

 

Combined with the obvious G10, that's good enough for at least one, if not two modules. I for one would love to get the G14/AS since it was used to counter the Mosquito attacks against Norway and I like the Norway scenario.

 

 

2 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Battle of France would be cool

 

The French planes would be amazing, especially the Bloch MB 152. And the D 520 was my favourite when I was a kid. Unfortunately, it is a niche within a niche.

[9./JG27DefaultFace 72]

4 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

It wasn´t until it (G6/U2s) got MW50 retrofitted in April. See graph in my Spit XIV / Me 109 comparision above.

 

Way more interesting is this though:

 

 

Not to nitpick, but do you have a source on this? I've been trying to find info on when exactly MW-50 started showing up in numbers for a while and haven't found much other than the same people arguing about it in different forums over and over and random references from books which talk generally about "late" G-6s and "Early-Mid 44".

 

Ive heard about Retrofit kits being approved in early 44, and 250 of them ordered in may..... But otherwise all I can find points to MW-50 not really showing up in numbers till the G-14 does?

 

Also U2 is a GM-1 upgrade but could be converted to MW-50.... And the link you reference talks about an R-2 which is a Reconnaisance version.........

[=420=Syphen 155]

11 minutes ago, 9./JG27DefaultFace said:

Not to nitpick, but do you have a source on this? I've been trying to find info on when exactly MW-50 started showing up in numbers for a while and haven't found much other than the same people arguing about it in different forums over and over and random references from books which talk generally about "late" G-6s and "Early-Mid 44".

 

Ive heard about Retrofit kits being approved in early 44, and 250 of them ordered in may..... But otherwise all I can find points to MW-50 not really showing up in numbers till the G-14 does?

 

Also U2 is a GM-1 upgrade but could be converted to MW-50.... And the link you reference talks about an R-2 which is a Reconnaisance version.........

 

Jean-Claude Mermet's book talks about it a little..  It's the best I've read and it seems to say Provisionally, early May. 

 

[Avimimus 625]

So who is going to sell me on why I should be excited by the A6 and G-6(late)? I actually like the Fw-190... so it could become a favourite variant of a favourite (and there is a small chance of getting the Mk-103 field test)... but the G-6... I'm having more trouble getting excited by.

[sevenless 2330]

1 hour ago, 9./JG27DefaultFace said:

Not to nitpick, but do you have a source on this?

 

Sure. Read Prien&Rodeike page 108 and see the quote of Knoke above. Additionally Mermet mentions it with nice sketches of Daimler Benz dated June 44 (Chapter 5 page 102+103) and also mentions the usage guide from May 6th remaining temporary until June 20. First the GM-1 equipped were retrofitted and in parallel production was changed. That perhaps also answers your question as to how many. The number of G5/U2 and G6/U2 planes gives the upper limit, no precise numbers are documented. As your remark to the Spitfire graph it explicitely states MW 50, R2 is not relevant.

 

 

Also a german book, Markus Wunderlich "Vom Prototyp bis zur 109 K" talks about the MW 50 system. According to him retrofitting started in Mai with the G6/U2 machines and in production line machines MW 50 wasn´t available until the G14 which was first delivered in July 1944 (30 units) to III./JG 1 and II./JG 11. See pages 139-140.

 

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

So who is going to sell me on why I should be excited by the A6 and G-6(late)?

 

You shouldn´t. They bring nothing new to the field which is not already there if you have all other planes. They only fill the gap between 1943 and 1944 "sensibly". 190 A6 is a 1943 plane as is the 109 G6, nothing will change that.

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[oc2209 215]

6 hours ago, Rjel said:

The only other single engine German fighter i think is needed is the 109G10. That would round the series nicely. After that perhaps some of the  late bi-planes as the Luftwaffe used early in the war. I’m not that familiar with the planes other than I think they were used in ground attack.   
 

As mentioned a seaplane would be cool but those things were butt ugly. My last Luftwaffe wish would be for a Mistel Ju-88 with the Fw-190 mounted atop. 

 

Along these lines, I'd like to see (a pipedream, I know) a Spanish Civil War campaign, complete with the biplanes you mention, an early 109, and the He-112.

[ShamrockOneFive 3668]

9 hours ago, ICDP said:

 

Because then people would complain about why the A3, A5 and A8 were not redone.  The truth is it is beneficial and normal for devs to reuse assets where possible and given the limited size of the team it is understandable.

 

I think I can live with that

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

So who is going to sell me on why I should be excited by the A6 and G-6(late)? I actually like the Fw-190... so it could become a favourite variant of a favourite (and there is a small chance of getting the Mk-103 field test)... but the G-6... I'm having more trouble getting excited by.

 

In IL-2: 1946 my mid-war Fw190 favourite was the Fw190A-6. It has the best attributes of the Fw190A-5 with the sharper and crisper handling before the A-8 model got heavy while having the added firepower of the four MG151/20 cannons. Kind of a happy medium. If given the choice I picked the A-6 over a lot of other versions until the D-9 would show up.

[Jaws2002 1577]

22 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

In IL-2: 1946 my mid-war Fw190 favourite was the Fw190A-6. It has the best attributes of the Fw190A-5 with the sharper and crisper handling before the A-8 model got heavy while having the added firepower of the four MG151/20 cannons. Kind of a happy medium. If given the choice I picked the A-6 over a lot of other versions until the D-9 would show up.

 

True, but in the old Il-2 the German cannons had very poor performance until very late in the game's life, when they added the mine shells.  So going to 4xMG151/20 from 2xMG151+2xMG/FF,  was a big improvement.

  This game doesn't have that problem. You can easily kill planes with only two cannons. I doubt you'll notice such a big firepower upgrade in this game.    Our FW-190 A8 is also much better modeled, so it's not the complete pig the one in the original was, for most of the game's life.

 

I have the most time in flight sims in FW-190s and I think this is are the best 190 models I ever used. 

 

I have to thank the developers for a very well modeled FW-190. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Jaws2002

[WWChunk 126]

46 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

I have the most time in flight sims in FW-190s and I think this is are the best 190 models I ever used. 

 

I have to thank the developers for a very well modeled FW-190. 

I would agree with you, and kudos to the devs for recognizing that the A3 was not up to par when released, and then working to make it right. One of the many reasons I continue to support them. 

[esk_pedja 206]

13 hours ago, Rjel said:

The only other single engine German fighter i think is needed is the 109G10. That would round the series nicely. 

+1  Right...

[[=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther 269]

10 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Look around the forums... you will find posts mentioning Jap planes, Jap carriers, Jap pilots etc etc... you want to have a dig around and have a poke at them too?.. no one here takes it out of context or is using it as a slur, it's simply an abbreviation just like 'Brit' Brit planes, Brit pilots, Brit aircraft carriers... yet someone gets on their high horse about it, and the forums will end up a bloody PC desert!

 

This reminds me the time I was talking to a colleague who was a Malaysian woman married to an Ivorian man. She mentioned about owning a "Jap car," and my (ex)wife was appalled. The colleague was stupefy on why my (ex)wife was even offended. She was like, "that's what it is." 

 

I work with Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, etc... The only person i ever (jokingly ) offended was when i told an Irish colleague that she speaks the "Queen's English." Using an abbreviated adjective is not offensive. It is all about context.  

 

 

9 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

Highly unlikely someone will start the series with the latest and most expensive addon in the game. Most people, when they try a new game, they  start with a cheaper version, that's already in sale and go from there.  Anyway, there are already a lot of preorder customers that would be more interested to try a different new plane, instead of a very small variation.

 

You are assuming that a person would be ok with flying in the East. I don't think that is the case. Moreover, it isn't about not having a fighter as it is the career cannot be done without it. Since most play SP, that becomes importance. 

[Eisenfaustus 264]

13 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

 

Why does it always have to be late, later late, latest late and way-too-late stuff?

That's a dead end.

Early PTO would be a really great new sequel to the series, but probably a bit too large of a throw.

Battle of France would be cool if it has to be in the west, finnish border wars or battle of poland if we could get back to the east.

There'd be lots of kitest that could be added to the mix, like early 109 E models or even the D, then we could us some early hurricanes and a couple more I-16 and Lagg-3 versions, just to mention the planes where other versions of exist already.

Add a couple of completely new kites to that mix and you get some real cool WW2 action back, without all that fancy super-sophisticated 45 stuff.

 

Mike

I'm with you on this. The Ta 152 is a special interest for me because I was always intrigued by it's glider like appeareance. I'm perfectly aware that it was built in so few numbers it isn't of any relevance to the war. I just like it

 

Nevertheless my two favourite expansions that won't come are: Battle of Spain '37 and Battle of France '40.

[ShadowStalker887 70]

Yay. American-centric racial politics, my favourite flight simulation topic.

 

On a more relevant topic, I really don't see the appeal of either aircraft beyond that there historically relevant. I really hope they have something interesting in the way of options or mods, otherwise I probably won't touch them past an initial test flight.