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Game version 4.007 discussion: Ju 87 D-3 in 4K, new options and camera controls, control rods DM and ect.


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6 hours ago, Werner_Voss said:

 

100 % agree :good: !  Got this impression from other flight sim forums as well.

 

But VR people in general - allthough the minority - are the loudest at screaming if something goes against the grain for them. 

 

A very happy TrackIR user;  who still won't sit with clumsy, overpriced and ridiculous looking diving goggles on the schnoz in front of his PC.

 

VR virtual lives matter!

 

Maybe they're loud becouse they're not so small minority as you thought so!

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48 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

 

VR virtual lives matter!

 

Maybe they're loud becouse they're not so small minority as you thought so!

 

 

Let's just all stop being so divisive  both sides and everyone get onboard and support meaningful developments and improvements for all! We all want to enjoy our experiences and we all want this franchise to succeed.

 

And here is a bone for BOTH sides - the rate of VR usage is increasing considerably - going up exponentially, the actual market segment is still relatively tiny compared to overall.

-- there, each take a victory if you need to have one  and walk away.

Be kind, be nice, and let's move on :) ...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/265018/proportion-of-directx-versions-on-the-platform-steam/

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What a fun thread. It almost feels like many people here are jealous of those who have VR headsets and pretend to be indifferent by making some silly jokes.

 

VR is definitely not a fad. In contrary - it just keeps growing in popularity. There is a reason why multi-billion dollar companies keep investing in the technology. Flight sims is not their only application, y'know. VR is used in lots of activities including for medical purposes. There's more to life than just IL-2 and childish quarrels.

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1 minute ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

I'd wager good money that flat screen usage is actually 100%, has anyone ever seen a VR user who hasn't got one also running in tandem? 

only because i have to. if i could stay in vr, i would. ;)

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55 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

"These yaks are very different than the ones I am used to!"

 

Those race of cows is typical for the same region where I grew up in the Alps of Europe.  But this picture has a real background.

Our beloved fellows - the Russians - have "invented" this kind of cow therapy  :biggrin:.

 

Article here:  Russian Cows Fitted With Virtual-Reality Headsets

 

Personally, I really don't care if someone is using VR, TrackIR, or his own head only.

 

And I don't care if the VR market is growing or not !!! 

But I will never use this technoloy, because of personal reasons, and far beyond from being divisive.

Edited by Werner_Voss
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3 minutes ago, Werner_Voss said:

 

Those race of cows is typical for the same region where I grew up in the Alps of Europe.  But this picture has a real background.

Our beloved fellows - the Russians - have "invented" this kind of cow therapy  :biggrin:.

 

Article here:  Russian Cows Fitted With Virtual-Reality Headsets

 

Yes, I recall reading about this experiment some time ago. I believe someone else has tried this with chickens, though I can't remember where.

 

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

"These yaks are very different than the ones I am used to!"

 

And with that simple yet topical, relevant and humorous comment, the long-awaited dream of finally achieving a reasonable and believable, yet still chucklesomely bad pun about our bovine friends and the wonderful Red fighter series we all know and love, has finally been achieved.  Many have tried but few if any have succeeded until now.

 

Mark your calendars, Gentlemen, this marks a great day for the forums and the Great Battle series in general.

 

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35 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

And with that simple yet topical, relevant and humorous comment, the long-awaited dream of finally achieving a reasonable and believable, yet still chucklesomely bad pun about our bovine friends and the wonderful Red fighter series we all know and love, has finally been achieved.  Many have tried but few if any have succeeded until now.

 

Mark your calendars, Gentlemen, this marks a great day for the forums and the Great Battle series in general.

 

The real holy grail is making one that works for a MiG!

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Well I've now actually flown online since the update and I gotta say, I feel like visibility has gone backwards big time. I know after 4.006 I felt like I could spot planes very well against any backdrop, the ground, etc. This was a very welcome change. We just flew an SCG flight on combat box and all of us were commenting on how we couldn't spot anything, each-other, contacts, everything seemed to be just blurring into it's background, even IDing when zoomed was harder as things just didn't seem to pop or have the contrast that I'd gotten used to with 4.006.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this?

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1 hour ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

And with that simple yet topical, relevant and humorous comment, the long-awaited dream of finally achieving a reasonable and believable, yet still chucklesomely bad pun about our bovine friends and the wonderful Red fighter series we all know and love, has finally been achieved.  Many have tried but few if any have succeeded until now.

 

Mark your calendars, Gentlemen, this marks a great day for the forums and the Great Battle series in general.

 

 

Done ages ago in my video "The Knights who say Nyet", still available on my YouTube Channel.  You can watch as long as you observe social distancing.

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41 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Well I've now actually flown online since the update and I gotta say, I feel like visibility has gone backwards big time. I know after 4.006 I felt like I could spot planes very well against any backdrop, the ground, etc. This was a very welcome change. We just flew an SCG flight on combat box and all of us were commenting on how we couldn't spot anything, each-other, contacts, everything seemed to be just blurring into it's background, even IDing when zoomed was harder as things just didn't seem to pop or have the contrast that I'd gotten used to with 4.006.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this?

Someone mentioned above that cinematic camera was turned on for them. I know that setting caused a lot of excess blur for me when I first started playing, I wonder if maybe this was reset for you? Haven’t had a chance to play the new patch yet.

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 ""Aircraft control systems DM has been upgraded. The probability of losing control in a certain control axis depends on the control wires or rods configuration of a particular aircraft and existence of a reserve control channel (or its lack thereof)"

 

In practical meaning, which Bf-109 (F / G)  and FW-190 will be more ( or less ) sensitive to decreased control, due to combat damage ?

 

Thanks for possible clarification.

 

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6 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Someone mentioned above that cinematic camera was turned on for them. I know that setting caused a lot of excess blur for me when I first started playing, I wonder if maybe this was reset for you? Haven’t had a chance to play the new patch yet.

 

This only affects third person views though. It makes the camera move around to simulate viewing from onboard another plane.

38 minutes ago, Ouky1991 said:

How's the mk108 damage since the new DM update? I don't have the game installed right now. It took more than 3 hits to shoot off wings with K-4, is it still the same?

 

Yes it's still the same in that regard. More than 3 hits to break wings for most airframes which doesn't make sense given that this ammunition could eviscerate a fuselage clean in 2 with 1 hit. However, my impression is that some machines are losing control more readily with the control cable modelling changes. Hitting with the 30mm Mk108 I'm seeing machines just gradually go out of control. Only the P38 seems to withstand significant 30mm hits and I suspect it's because this machine had multiple control cables. Would be nice if someone could tell about the control cable setup for this machine? 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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Does anyone know if this includes damage to trim controls?

 

I had a situation where at the end of the mission my rudder was trimmed all the way to the left, and I had bullet holes along my tail.

However I was still able to move it back to center by reset trims control.

 

Is there a damage situation that can throw a control like trim off but still allow it to revert when you adjust it?

Or could it be moved by G forces?

 

I've eliminated possible double-bindings of controls by checking everything, although there's always the possibility I accidentally held my thumb on the trim.. but it's a pretty strong switch

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I'm getting the feeling that VR users are like early Christians, venturing out into the unknown, trying to convert the masses to their new God, while the rest of us pagans are just clinging to our old ways.

It's only a matter of time before someone decides they are a danger to the gaming community and throws them to the lions!   🦁 :dash:

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11 hours ago, RedKestrel said:
12 hours ago, Werner_Voss said:

You've got it  ;) !   And even cows are doing VR recently .....

n-ch12-16x9-far

"These yaks are very different than the ones I am used to!"

Hopefully they use the correct zoom level:pilot:

 

1 hour ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

This only affects third person views though. It makes the camera move around to simulate viewing from onboard another plane.

Isn't there some washout effect, when looking around which unsharpens your view?

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1 hour ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

This only affects third person views though. It makes the camera move around to simulate viewing from onboard another plane.

 

 

I see - it must have  changed at some point.When I first played the game a couple years ago, having this option checked would add a very big motion blur effect whenever you moved your view in cockpit. 

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8 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Well I've now actually flown online since the update and I gotta say, I feel like visibility has gone backwards big time. I know after 4.006 I felt like I could spot planes very well against any backdrop, the ground, etc. This was a very welcome change. We just flew an SCG flight on combat box and all of us were commenting on how we couldn't spot anything, each-other, contacts, everything seemed to be just blurring into it's background, even IDing when zoomed was harder as things just didn't seem to pop or have the contrast that I'd gotten used to with 4.006.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this?

Absolutely this !

 

Ever since 4.006 spotting distant contacts has gone back to the dark days before the Alternative Visibility changes. I don't use AV but the normal spotting had improved until 4.006. 

 

Now, I'm starting to lose my patience with watching distant contacts like a hawk only for them to disappear in front of my eyes or seeing them like big balloons in clouds and then disappear when they exit the cloud. 

 

In theory, I should be able to see distant contacts well as it's a 40'TV at 1080p so bigger pixels. This was the case until 4.006. Now I have worse spotting, worse anti aliaising, worse shimmering and comical cloud contacts.

 

What exactly are the benefits of the new graphics rendering?  I would take the old graphics back in a flash if it was an option.

 

Is it possible to choose between them or are we stuck with the new version ? Seems like VR users are happy so maybe giving people the choice is the way forward. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, PreyStalker said:

Absolutely this !

 

Ever since 4.006 spotting distant contacts has gone back to the dark days before the Alternative Visibility changes. I don't use AV but the normal spotting had improved until 4.006. 

 

Now, I'm starting to lose my patience with watching distant contacts like a hawk only for them to disappear in front of my eyes or seeing them like big balloons in clouds and then disappear when they exit the cloud. 

 

In theory, I should be able to see distant contacts well as it's a 40'TV at 1080p so bigger pixels. This was the case until 4.006. Now I have worse spotting, worse anti aliaising, worse shimmering and comical cloud contacts.

 

What exactly are the benefits of the new graphics rendering?  I would take the old graphics back in a flash if it was an option.

 

Is it possible to choose between them or are we stuck with the new version ? Seems like VR users are happy so maybe giving people the choice is the way forward. 

 

 

He's talking about a change that happened for him at 4.007. For him it was better at 4.006.

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1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I'm getting the feeling that VR users are like early Christians, venturing out into the unknown, trying to convert the masses to their new God, while the rest of us pagans are just clinging to our old ways.

It's only a matter of time before someone decides they are a danger to the gaming community and throws them to the lions!   🦁 :dash:

I think you are right. I use Rift S. I can not say it was a hallelujah moment for me. 
I borrowed a Rift CV 1 before that and the sensors had no space to be in my cramped pit. It did not track well, and instruments was blurry. 
Then I decided to go for rift S since I hate tweaking too much and want plug and play

It is cool sitting in the cockpit, really cool. It bring depth perception. 
But it need to be understood that apart from 3 D advantages admit tingly addictive there are no advantage. And VR users need to understand that they are not looked upon as gods. Nor is anyone envy. 
I have a deeply feeling inside me when previous TRackIr users now VR users want to restrict owl neck on TIr users, a advantage we had for years over those not having it. VR is optional, one can go back to trackir anytime. It is very rude attitude

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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12 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

...when previous TRackIr users now VR users want to restrict owl neck on TIr users, a advantage we had for years over those not having it...

 

And still have, but I note you consider it an advantage where VR users want parity.  Track IR is optional too.

 

Not trying to rehash old arguments - just pointing out some slight weaknesses in the opinion.  VR users have other disadvantages too but they go with adopting the technology (resolution, spotting, ID'ing etc).

 

About the VR users being Christians - just remember what happened with Christianity after some were thrown to the lions! Come to the dark side....

 

von Tom

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51 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

He's talking about a change that happened for him at 4.007. For him it was better at 4.006.

OK I have read it properly now, but his experience with 4.007 pretty much sums up my experience with both 4.006 and 4.007.

 

In my eyes and on my set up, the sim looked better before 4.006 and it was easier to spot distant contacts with normal visibility.

-GTX 970 1080p

 

I hope there are improvements in the pipeline ( usually there are ) because right now I don't see how 4.006 and 4.007 are steps forward.

 

 

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1 hour ago, PreyStalker said:

Is it possible to choose between them or are we stuck with the new version ? Seems like VR users are happy so maybe giving people the choice is the way forward. 

 

I'd venture that VR uses are happy about different things other than spotting per se, as VR spotting still just doesn't compare to spotting in 2D (speaking as someone with a perfectly set up HP Reverb with great picture, and also a 1080p 2D monitor for comparison), and likely won't until a generation or two later in the technology cycle.   They're happy about certain things like having a functional zoom feature comparative to 2D, which does help get some parity to spotting using a monitor when zoomed, and other enhancements for immersion, and FPS improvements which mean a lot because VR is highly demanding, so every little bit helps to get out of the 30-40 FPS range on some systems.  Whereas the same improvement on their 2D monitor means going from 80 to 90 FPS isn't as meaningful.  

 

43 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I have a deeply feeling inside me when previous TRackIr users now VR users want to restrict owl neck on TIr users, a advantage we had for years over those not having it. VR is optional, one can go back to trackir anytime. It is very rude attitude

 

It would also be a very silly attitude of any such person to have, since it's also possible to set up a VR system with the same '"owl neck" capability, and even regular monitor/keyboard users without either TrackIR or VR have always been able to do the Owl Neck thing, as we all have, using the standard view commands.  So everyone is on a common footing now, we are all potential owls. I made a reference to this in my Linda Blair comment in my "old man" diatribe above, but I'm hoping it's clear that was nothing more than just pure satire through and through. 

 

On that note, the positive item I am taking away from the last two pages of, errr, somewhat interesting conversation in this thread is that it feels like more has been done in the past two updates than ever to bring parity across all manner of users of varying technology, whether it's head tracking, VRing, reshading, zooming or plain old keyboarding.   Although I have absolutely no interest or desire to put any bans, rules or constraints on people who use different technology or methods than mine, maybe it will put an end to the requests that others have been lodging to ban various assists that they have issues with, and help the community and devs move on and focus on the other improvements that are planned, which will be sure to add even more to an incredibly diverse and beautiful product that has been lovingly crafted and cared for.

 

Edited by =[TIA]=Stoopy
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55 minutes ago, PreyStalker said:

OK I have read it properly now, but his experience with 4.007 pretty much sums up my experience with both 4.006 and 4.007.

 

In my eyes and on my set up, the sim looked better before 4.006 and it was easier to spot distant contacts with normal visibility.

-GTX 970 1080p

 

I hope there are improvements in the pipeline ( usually there are ) because right now I don't see how 4.006 and 4.007 are steps forward.

 

 

 

Yep, I found spotting to be great in 4.006 and a huge improvement to the state of spotting after the visibility changes that pushed out the 10km bubble. (seemed like after that patch, spotting became harder.) It was as though planes finally had depth and contrast against the background like real objects do in 4.006. 

 

I'm very worried that it has something to do with the workarounds they had to implement to prevent outlines on plane edges for AMD users. I wonder if there was some edge definition that was implemented that helped planes stand out for the majority of users without looking strange.

 

For the record, we had 6 people flying last night and everyone was struggling and agreed spotting was worse. That included both VR and monitor players. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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5 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Yep, I found spotting to be great in 4.006 and a huge improvement to the state of spotting after the visibility changes that pushed out the 10km bubble. (seemed like after that patch, spotting became harder.) It was as though planes finally had depth and contrast against the background like real objects do. 

 

I'm very worried that it has something to do with the workarounds they had to implement to prevent outlines on plane edges for AMD users. I wonder if there was some edge definition that was implemented that helped planes stand out for the majority of users without looking strange.

 

If you have a saved startup.cfg file from 4.006, it may be worth your time to pull it up in an editor like Notepad, then pull up the current startup.cfg alongside of it, and compare each and every graphic configuration setting to see if something changed, noting that there may be some new entries in the updated file that weren't there before.  You can edit the file manually (save a backup) and test for improvement in spotting.    I do this on every release now, ensuring that my preferred 'golden' settings get applied to a current full set of new configuration parameters.

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36 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

If you have a saved startup.cfg file from 4.006, it may be worth your time to pull it up in an editor like Notepad, then pull up the current startup.cfg alongside of it, and compare each and every graphic configuration setting to see if something changed, noting that there may be some new entries in the updated file that weren't there before.  You can edit the file manually (save a backup) and test for improvement in spotting.    I do this on every release now, ensuring that my preferred 'golden' settings get applied to a current full set of new configuration parameters.

 

Fair enough, I will take a look. Thought I have been through the settings pretty heavily to verify that everything is optimal. 

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Trim rods could be damaged before this update. I had this several times, that I returned to my base with the elevator trim not working anymore. You could see, that the trim wheel didn't turn anymore.

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1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Yep, I found spotting to be great in 4.006 and a huge improvement to the state of spotting after the visibility changes that pushed out the 10km bubble. (seemed like after that patch, spotting became harder.) It was as though planes finally had depth and contrast against the background like real objects do in 4.006. 

 

I'm very worried that it has something to do with the workarounds they had to implement to prevent outlines on plane edges for AMD users. I wonder if there was some edge definition that was implemented that helped planes stand out for the majority of users without looking strange.

 

For the record, we had 6 people flying last night and everyone was struggling and agreed spotting was worse. That included both VR and monitor players. 

 

@Jason_Williams, @Han This. 

4.006 brought about initially great improvements with spotting and at the old FOV Id-ing of targets for me.  This went backwards at either the 4.006d or e revision, with the change of the FOV for VR users.

 

Even though they have a good implemented new Zoom function to placate the people demanding it after 3Dmigoto was broken with the new rendering architecture, actual visibility has gone back to the problems of the past where I can hardly spot a target at 2kms out in most lighting situations and following / tracking targets is difficult.

 

I do like the improved world scale at the new FOV and the new Zoom, well it should placate the 3Dmigoto folks but yes. Things have gone backwards.  That and the new 4.007 update has gone and rewritten the default snap views so that I have to troll through each aircraft in 2D and rework the pilot head position to be how I had them set up.

 

I would very much hope that we get the current FOV and zooms but with the 4.006c visibility.  That would be ideal.

 

Also note the change in FOV was implemented in 4.006d without testing but I think the return to poor contact visibility was 4.006e

 

Nothing to do with Cinema-graphic Camera setting either.

Graphics settings.png

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