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hegykc

MFG Crosswind 3d printed Combat pedals

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Posted (edited)

Any MFG Crosswind users here?

 

I prototyped these 3d printed combat pedals for MFG Crosswinds. I have tested them myself for strength, hardness, functionality and ease of manufacturing. They pass.

Height adjustable +/- 26 mm or 1 inch, in WWII green:

20200607-175825.jpg

I've sent them out to the 3-4 people that own MFG's in my country for further testing. But I would like at least 20 people to confirm they're ok and are worth making.
I'm in Croatia, so if you'd be willing test them out for the price of shipping. Let me know. They use existing bolts so it's a fairly light and small package.

There are also modern type designs (the only difference is the cutouts in the pedals, F-18 has holes, F-14 & F-16 have squares, WWII has no holes):

MFG-Combat-pedals.jpg

 

EDIT: The steering damper going across the top, is another mod I am testing. It provides resistance to movement so it feels more like the real plane, with some weight to the movement., like moving your feet through water instead of air. The mod is non-destructive so no drilling, uses existing holes and a few extra bolts.
 

Edited by hegykc
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I'd be interested (I'm in the UK). 

 

I moved over to a set of MFG Crosswinds 6 months ago and whilst they are high quality pedals, I find the combat style more comfortable.    

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ditto. UK based.

 

had my crosswinds for several years. 

 

superb kit.

 

let me know costs if im lucky enough to be chosen!

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Posted (edited)

I have Crosswinds, best damn thing in my ensemble.  I’m in Australia and interested In trying them. Green WW2, they look like they rock.

Edited by TWC_Sp00k
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42 minutes ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

I have Crosswinds, best damn thing in my ensemble.  I’m in Australia and interested In trying them. Green WW2, they look like they rock.

Another Aussie good stuff , you feel my pain of buying flight sim gear with a bad $$$

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Here's one Crosswinds user from Europe. I would love to test the WWII version. 

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S! 

 

Is that dampener a self made retrofit or a set you can buy? 

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19 hours ago, hegykc said:

EDIT: The steering damper going across the top, is another mod I am testing. It provides resistance to movement so it feels more like the real plane, with some weight to the movement., like moving your feet through water instead of air. The mod is non-destructive so no drilling, uses existing holes and a few extra bolts.

 

I'd be interested in the damper, too. Please let me know the details - thx!

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Count me in. The steering damper looks interesting as well. Might contribute to better yaw control and feel. I'm in the USA.

Thanks

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Been looking for a set of combat pedals for a while, there are some people working on it on the DCS forum.  If you can get these working and out soon, they should be a hit.   Already have my pedals almost straight up, and use them heels on the floor, except when braking.  I've even considered chopping off the bottom half of my existing footplates, but wisely reconsidered.

 

UK based Crosswind V2 user, happy to test pedals and damper.

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Posted (edited)

Absolutely interested in both the pedals and damper.

 

Crosswind pilot in the UK. 

Edited by Mewt

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

here is a user from Europe and i would like to test the damper and WWII pedals .

Thank you for your work !!

greatings from Germany .

 

Edited by GER_GD

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I´m interested too if you still need testers. I´m in Sweden using Croswinds for years.

 

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28 minutes ago, 69th_Panp said:

Is milan aware of your mod and oK with this ?

 

 

Why 😀

 

Anyways, we have enough testers now.

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All the test pedals are being shipped tomorrow.

 

I have used different settings in manufacturing each set. If yours brake apart, you can report it and I will cross that particular setup as non-working, and re-send you a new sample on my dime.

 

Try out both high and low positions, and also all angles so we can figure out if any modifications are needed to the design.

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@hegykc,

 

Will you make these pedals also with outer mounting holes? So that these pedals can be mounted with the MFG width adjustment plates. These plates are required to mount the MFG Crosswinds in the Obutto R3volution cockpit.

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Posted (edited)

Combat Pedals should start arriving this week to those from EU countries.

20200615-224914.jpg

These combat pedals shoud be angled quite vertically. If you have your MFGs on the floor, not attached to anything, then the brake spring strength might be too high, so you'll have to replace the old brake spring adjusters, with the ones you got in the package along with the Combat Pedals.

20200622-153727.jpg

Milan from MFG has a video on how to remove the pedal mounts easily, then you should proceed to remove the brake spring adjusters, and replace them with the new ones with 2x extra holes for even weaker brake spring strength:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNSsj6aR10

To remove the nuts from the old brake spring adjusters use a trick:

20200622-153728.jpg

Edited by hegykc
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Posted (edited)

As reported by some users who already got their combat foot rests. Braking force is quite high. I have my MFG's bolted down and like extra heavy duty feel, like I'm in a real plane. So I have my brake spring setup so hard it makes me sweat if miss my landing marks. But not everyone has the luxury to bolt their MFG's to the floor, or to raise their feet and place them on top of the foot rests for braking, like in real life training:

 

Rudder-pedals-on-most-light-aircraft-hav

20200530-1948557.jpg

So I made new spring adjusters. Measured on the middle of the combat foot rests, braking forces are as following:

Original spring adjusters minimum force: 20 kg (40 lbs)
v1.0 adjusters you received minimum force : 8 kg (16 lbs)
v1.5 adjusters I just made minimum force : 2 kg (4 lbs)

That's a 90% decrease in braking force for those who don't have the luxury of bolting down their MFG's to the floor, and their pedals either slide, or move the office chair. Or those of you who have low desks and cannot easily raise your feet to place them on top of the foot rests for braking. They don't interfere with brake range or movement. I'll ship them to any testers who need them.

20200627-083909.jpg

Edited by hegykc
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Posted (edited)
You might have already spin-out the nuts in the spring adjusters if you installed them. I mistakenly left the original type hole, which is fine for the hard composite that the original adjusters are made from, but will VERY easily spin out the nut if you apply anything more than very light force on the hex key.
 
The entire spring adjuster has already been changed for extra spring hole placement anyway (and a mounting hole for hydraulic brake cylinder, more on that later) so you will be getting new ones regardless, just a heads up:
 
20200627-0839011.jpg
Edited by hegykc
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Received mine today.  Fitted them with minimal fuss and now spending time adjusting for comfort and function.  I want to give it a few days before I commit to a review.  BTW happy to do this in the public forum or via email / pm if you prefer as this is a prototype.

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Posted (edited)

Well having had a couple of days to fit and use Hegykc's combat pedals here are my thoughts.

 

Design and finish:  Obviously these are prototypes, so the finish is 'functional'.  They are clearly taken straight off the 3D printer and sent out 'as is'.  Seams and edges are unfinished and can be sharp which is entirely acceptable for a prototype but I would expect the finish to be improved were they to become a retail product.  I got the F-16 style and since it is currently summer and I am barefoot in the house, I find my toes end up slipping into the holes in the pedals and catching on the sharp edges.   

 

Fitting:  Hegykc has set out some very helpful instructions on fitting the pedals which meant the process went pretty smoothly.  I needed half and hour or so of testing to dial in the correct position and spring tension.  I ended up going with an angle of c. 70 degrees from the horizontal, using the lowest of the 2 mounting options and with the lowest spring tension on the supplied spring adjusters.  From a functional perspective I would have preferred to use the higher mounting option but the MFGs are just set too high off the ground to make this a comfortable option without an additional heel rest in the style of that used by the Saitek combat pedals which I also own - it might be worth exploring if there is a practical solution to this as a heel rest would also reduce carpet wear for those who use the pedals on that kind of surface.

 

Performance and use:  First context - my 'cockpit' set up is a computer desk with Monstertech mounts for my stick (centre mounted) and throttle.  My 'man cave' is carpeted and I sit on a 'racing style seat which is on wheels but this is reasonable resistant to movement across the carpet.  The MFGs sit on the floor and I use an old electric drill case to brace them in the desired position.

  

I have moved the MFGs back c. 10cm to adjust for the different foot placement of the design, which for me has the added advantage of distributing my weight better on my chair (i.e. more even thigh contact with the seat) and is much more comfortable over extended periods of use.  With the pedals on the lower of the 2 setting, the spring tension even on the lowest setting is too high for me.  I find I have less of an issue when pressing the brakes but struggle to release the brakes smoothly.  With the pedals in the higher position this was not an issue, so it is likely down to leverage which might be solved by the updated spring adjusters allowing for a further reduction in tension.   There is a balance to be struck here as the tension has also to be high enough to avoid unwanted braking especially on the take off roll.   I also find that with the pedals at full deflection and with the brakes depressed, that the combined force can push my seat back.  This was not an issue with the original pedals as the braking force is largely downwards while with the combat style the forces are largely parallel to the floor. 

 

I get a little creaking from the brakes when I use them which I think is caused by the springs rubbing on the body of the pedal rather than imminent failure of the pedal body.  This seems sufficiently robust for my style of flying (I'm still using my early production model Cougar after god knows how many years - admittedly with the truly excellent U2:NXT gimbal mod).

 

When flying I find it easier to dial in small corrections to the rudder than with the original foot rest design.  Having your heals on the floor braces the spring rebound, reducing the forces required to hold a minor correction for any length of time (Bf109 and Fw190 - I'm looking at you!) and acts as a natural damper as it were, aiding a smoother return to centre.  I'm flying a lot of CloD at the moment and find I have greater control over the rather rubber band like rudder response (it feels very like GB's flight model from about 3 years ago in that regard). 

 

In summary:  A very promising aftermarket mod for the truly excellent MFG pedals, which with a little refinement will be a good acquisition for anyone who struggles to get on with the 'foot on' design of the originals.  My set are staying on my MFG's for now and I look forward to experimenting with the updated spring adjusters.  

 

Edited by Yardstick
typo
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the extensive write up!

 

Yes the finish quality is for prototypes. No point in having them super nice as all of them will be replaced anyway.

 

I sent everyone a different version, made with different settings. So when you report back I can check against my spreadsheet and see which settings are a problem and which ones are good. Some of your pedals will brake apart for that reason, I need to know where the limit for the amount of material needed is.

 

Braking force is no issue with the new adjuster design, you can reduce it up to 90%.

 

Different style holes for f-14, f-16 and f-18 do look nice, but with summer socks or barefoot they won't be as comfortable as the solid "WWII style" ones.

 

Also the pedals themselves are already re-designed and will be shipped to all the testers next week, along with new spring adjusters and a support bracket. These will be a fail-safe solution as they are impossible to brake apart with the 4 bolt mounting solution and a support bracket underneath:

mfg-combat-final.jpg

Edited by hegykc

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We might have a winner here!

I put this version last to try out because I didn't have high hopes for it. First of all, the brake axis goes straight through the middle of the foot rest, not at all what it's like on an F-16 or a WWII warbird. So I thought, that's ridiculous it'll never work right. Then you got all these adjustment holes, how's that gonna look.

BUT, I like this one the most out of all the versions I tried myself. The brake axis through the middle of the foot rest means, that while you're pushing rudder, you're never accidentally applying brakes, no matter how hard you push the rudder. Because when you're pushing rudder, you apply backwards force to the brakes. So it actually works better then the old one. Where you had to be very careful not to accidentally apply brakes when using weak spring setting.

Plus there are mounting holes for 20mm up/down/left/right adjustment. And the support bracket underneath means I don't have to worry about printing settings and amount of materials used, you will not brake these ones in half no matter how hard you try.

If you want to see how much lower these are, mount the ones you have now, with only 1 bolt, to the lowest position. That's how low these new ones go.

And the new spring adjuster can reduce spring force by 90%. Effortless braking for those without much room under their desks. And even on the weakest spring setting, it is impossible to accidentally apply brakes instead of rudder, because the center of axis goes above the pressure point.

There is also still enough room to put holes for modern jet style designs:
11.jpg

So you can pretty much disregard the ones you have now, feedback on those is useless now. You will all be getting these new pairs next week.

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Is the new spring adjuster shipped with the new design? I could not use the ones you originally sent as the nut started to rotate inside the squared hole. (Patiently waiting for the updated ones!)

 

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Yes, new adjusters come with the new pedals.

 

You can still tighten the old ones you have, just jam something in there with the nut as you tighten it, a screwdriver, knife, fork what ever you can find.

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Too late, I had used too much force at my first attempt! As i was late to replace I found your info in the topic that you have remade the adjuster so I thought I´d ask. So I´ll wait for the new ones. Thanks.

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No problem that's why we test. It's interesting, I have put my combat pedals and adjusters, on and off probably a 100 times. Never had the issue with the bolt nuts spinning out.

 

And, as soon as a couple of people reported the bolt nuts spinning, I tried it myself and immediately spun the bolts. And with so little force that I honestly wonder how in the heck have I never done it before. And that's the first thing I watch out for. Don't baby anything, use them like a first time customer would.

 

But here we go, just goes to show you how subjective the maker can be. So that's where you come in :)

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Hmm.  Still waiting for that first set. Looking forward to trying them still. I have some G-10 blanks sitting here and can possibly make up an adapter to lower the old style.

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Clearing out some space for a youtube studio, so took some trial shots of the new combat pedals. Still some equipment missing so disregard the single blue spotlight and insufficient lighting:
 

6a.jpg 4a.jpg

3a.jpg 1a.jpg

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Did some further modifications to my MFG's. A can of spray paint and no more white rudder pedals.
Red spring adjustment wheel, red brake spring adjusters and some bronze accents. Also ordered a red hydraulic damper to match.

8c.jpg

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Australian postal services opened yet....damn Covid 19 !

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