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Bodenplatte map finished?


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5 minutes ago, murkz said:

Is the Bodenplatte map finished, with regards to towns and villages?

Take a look at a closed thread a bit lower in the General Discussions, there Jason stated, that the Rheinland map is done, they are now working on the Normandy map.

Only modders are still working to improve the map.

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23 minutes ago, murkz said:

Is the Bodenplatte map finished, with regards to towns and villages?

Better forget it....

Edit:  I think you have two option here: Going to DCS, which has the far better european map(s) but less content for it, or stay here with a rather primitive map design but with more and better content.

At the end, it´s up to the user what suits him better.

Edited by Semor76
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There is so much missing in the Ruhrgebiet ... makes me very sad, had reported it with several missing cities and industrial areas just between Bochum and Duisburg .. 

Saddest moment since 2001 in il2 History for me ...

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I rather take the simplified map than no map at all. There, I said it.

 

It's not like the devs simplify the maps on purpose in order to disappoint the players. It's a necessity to keep development costs and performance at an acceptable level and also to some extend due to (un)availability of reference material. Just like everything else in the sim.

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Im totaly happy with Il2 and the current development, it is the best WW2 flightsim for me.

As Jason said, the development or improvement of this map is finished, that's what i find is very sad. 

I life currently in Mülheim an der Ruhr, the fun fact is, they have modeled the Airport in Mülheim, but left out the city itself, Oberhausen is missing and several other city areas ... and the industrial areas are also not really there. 
Railway system is at it's minimum and the Mainstations often has just one railway, no industrial stations, no industrial area in the "biggest industrial (landscape) in germany"
That's the onky thing, a big thing, that is missing ..  

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Given the amount of improvements to the maps and technology over time I prefer to believe that there are simply no plans to return to it at the moment, not that it is something they wouldn't ever consider. Fingers crossed for the Normandy map, its going to have a lot of sea, so maybe more space for a more accurate depiction of the towns and cities? But who knows, as far as I'm concerned games development is wizardry anyway.

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When I'm actually flying over the Bodenplatte map online and off it seems to have all of the essentials to work. It's a big map with a lot of dense urban areas to represent and there are limits to how well you can represent that before performance suffers. IL-2's always been good at balancing looks for performance which is a tricky thing to do with simulation (and one needn't look very far away to talk about slideshows and poor fps for the last 8 weeks or more) and so I see the map details here as a necessary compromise.

 

I would guess that the other maps are similarly compromised but they aren't areas as well traveled by most of us so its a little less obvious.

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52 minutes ago, 76IAP-Black said:

I life currently in Mülheim an der Ruhr, the fun fact is, they have modeled the Airport in Mülheim, but left out the city itself, Oberhausen is missing and several other city areas ... and the industrial areas are also not really there. 

 

I live in Xanten quite in the middle of the area where Operation Blockbuster and Veritable took place and I can feel your pain. I drive through the Hochwald gap every day. I have hope however that perhaps a skilled Modder might take the challenge to at least mod in the important towns and points of interest which where of tactical importance 1944 and 1945. A lot of important villages in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany are still missing as well.

 

Victory-11.jpg

Edited by sevenless
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1 hour ago, 76IAP-Black said:

There is so much missing in the Ruhrgebiet ... makes me very sad, had reported it with several missing cities and industrial areas just between Bochum and Duisburg .. 

Saddest moment since 2001 in il2 History for me ...

 

No reason to be sad! Orbx makes excellent scenery addons for many flights sims - FSX, Prepar3D, X-plane11 and even Aerofly FS2, that cover Europe, Germany (even separate releases for North and South Germany) in excruciatingly high detail.   There's a cornucopia of options out there like never before if what matters to you is flying over your home town, it's a great time to be alive, don't go committing suicide over this!

'

Edited by =[TIA]=Stoopy
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Before an angry green demon arrives with a padlock and chain could I suggest that you learn to use the mission editor?

 

You can use it to make any kind of village / town / city anywhere you like on the map, including something resembling your own home if you want.

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16 minutes ago, Vortice said:

Before an angry green demon arrives with a padlock and chain could I suggest that you learn to use the mission editor?

 

You can use it to make any kind of village / town / city anywhere you like on the map, including something resembling your own home if you want.

I didn't know that was possible, does this include roads?

 

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12 minutes ago, Vortice said:

Before an angry green demon arrives with a padlock and chain could I suggest that you learn to use the mission editor?

 

You can use it to make any kind of village / town / city anywhere you like on the map, including something resembling your own home if you want.

Sorry, but this can't be the answer to THE large industrial area in Germany completely missing on the map. I don't bother about all the small villages not being on the map. This would of course be by far to much. The game engine would never be able to handle this. But the Ruhrgebiet is not just any spot on the German map.

 

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39 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

I live in Xanten quite in the middle of the area where Operation Blockbuster and Veritable took place and I can feel your pain. I drive through the Hochwald gap every day. I have hope however that perhaps a skilled Modder might take the challenge to at least mod in the important towns and points of interest which where of tactical importance 1944 and 1945. A lot of important villages in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany are still missing as well.

 

 

Consider the SchweineRheinland map as a What If scenario after a nuclear war or distaster. That explains the vast areas of emptiness.

Just like what happened after the Chernobyl disaster. Where they broke down dozens of abandoned villages and buried them under the ground.

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6 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

 

Consider the SchweineRheinland map as a What If scenario after a nuclear war or distaster. That explains the vast areas of emptiness.

Just like what happened after the Chernobyl disaster. Where they broke down dozens of abandoned villages and buried them under the ground.

 

Yes it is a pitty. It is not like there is not enough information available:

 

https://www.tracesofwar.com/articles/4714/Liberation-of-the-northeastern-part-of-the-Netherlands.htm

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4 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Sorry, but this can't be the answer to THE large industrial area in Germany completely missing on the map. I don't bother about all the small villages not being on the map. This would of course be by far to much. The game engine would never be able to handle this. But the Ruhrgebiet is not just any spot on the German map.

 

Ditto! It´s not only the missing Ruhrgebiet. Dont forget the huge amout of repetive textures all over the map. This looks so weird. IMHO it can´t be left to the modding comnunity to halfway finish the complete map for free.

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3 minutes ago, Semor76 said:

IMHO it can´t be left to the modding comnunity to halfway finish the complete map for free.

 

Why not? The community doesn't have to care about the performance and also not about the huge amout time that is required to do it.

Edited by 41Sqn_Skipper
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5 minutes ago, Semor76 said:

Ditto! It´s not only the missing Ruhrgebiet. Dont forget the huge amout of repetive textures all over the map. This looks so weird. IMHO it can´t be left to the modding comnunity to halfway finish the complete map for free.

 

The textures...

At least they could have added sand dune textures along the entire Dutch and Belgian coastline (+ the Atlantik Wall bunkers).

Not the mention the typical Dutch small strips of green grassland with ditches in between.

 

Und so weiter, and so on, et cetera, enzovoort.

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Personally I expected it. Jason did say it was a overambitious project for them. 
I find it adequate in some areas beautiful in others. 
If people living there is sad because their village is not there. I do not have particular sympathy for it, I can not see that as a purpose of this map. 
It will not ever be good enough, ever! That is Jasons pow, he knows this community will find something to complain about. 
I use Kuban map for scenery flights, for sure not X plane. Anyone seen that? Your village might be there but get close and you see it is made by two huge pixels 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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It is not about a village or two is missing, but the biggest industrial area in germany during WW2 is nonexcistent. 
It is the most crowded area until today in germany and was heavily bombed during WW2. 

Check this out
467942131_missingareas.thumb.jpg.496e24b355c7d04ccf7c624a738c2908.jpg

And the small missing villages contains small and little industrial areas, made out of 4 pixels this time
wZAWW9XJevU3VVk3HeSkq3T9H1oQ2O5EB10bdEGU
And thats how the Ruhrgebiet looked all over the place 

Edited by 76IAP-Black
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My two biggest beefs with it are the repeating textures that don't have any local variations, and the almost total lack of tactical bombing and ground attack targets. I wasn't expecting to be bombing the Ruhr with an armada of four-engined heavies, but railway yards and depots anyone? My view of it is that it's designed as a large dogfight map and that's about it. It's as poor as Kuban is good - and the Kuban map is very, very good.

 

PS It would have been nice the have some autobahns as well - rather a useful navigational feature let alone people wanting to fly jets off them.

 

Edited by 216th_Cat
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2 hours ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

It's not like the devs simplify the maps on purpose in order to disappoint the players. It's a necessity to keep development costs and performance at an acceptable level and also to some extend due to (un)availability of reference material. Just like everything else in the sim.

Understand the lack big industrial areas , adding small villages in between like all other IL2 maps, would have helped, worse for me are the repetitive textures which are  boring and unrealistic.

Every other map in IL2 is better.

Hoping Normandy is much better than Rhineland.

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20 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Personally I expected it. Jason did say it was a overambitious project for them. 
I find it adequate in some areas beautiful in others. 
If people living there is sad because their village is not there. I do not have particular sympathy for it, I can not see that as a purpose of this map. 
It will not ever be good enough, ever! That is Jasons pow, he knows this community will find something to complain about. 
I use Kuban map for scenery flights, for sure not X plane. Anyone seen that? Your village might be there but get close and you see it is made by two huge pixels 

 

No one said here and in the other BOBP topic that they feel sad or disappointed that their village is not present.

We are talking about essential elements like Ruhrgebiet, other industrial areas, major cities and the lack of big railway stations etc.

It would have helped if they sprinkled some farms here and there to get a sense of population.

 

People are not complaining about BOBP for the sake of complaining. Or complaining about minor issues.

 

Edit:

According my perception the ones that have something substantial to say about the map do live in this part of Europe.

 

I hold my breath for Normandy...

Edited by Uufflakke
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2 minutes ago, No.331.Animal_Mother said:

Bodenplatte map is visually the least pleasing of the IL2 maps. I don't mind missing villages, however all forest edges are too straight and give the map an artificial feel even from high above.

Ok I have to admit I do not fly much in that map. Late war and choice of planes for that map do not appeal to me in same degree as Next will. I was just under impression of it was your village missing. 
I can understand your disappointment, but tgis happen when budget do not allow for more. 

 

4 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

My two biggest beefs with it are the repeating textures that don't have any local variations, and the almost total lack of tactical bombing and ground attack targets. I wasn't expecting to be bombing the Ruhr with an armada of four-engined heavies, but railway yards and depots anyone? My view of it is that it's designed as a large dogfight map and that's about it. It's as poor as Kuban is good - and the Kuban map is very, very good.

This is mainly my view also. I look forward to Finland map. Kuban Stalingrad and Finland map and hopefully a great Normandy map will be quite enough for my flying

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There is always the possibility of a revision, like they did with Stalingrad textures some years ago for free. The same can be said about 150 oct, and many other things.

 

Every map will have flaws as every other piece of content. It will never be perfect, or rather, make everyone happy. There are always time and money constraints, even Jason said it was an overambitious project.  What we also have to consider is that even being an overambitious project, the team managed to deliver at the end. 

The team has a lot of experience and every project adds to that. I think they will know beter their limits and probably we will see a beautiful Normandy map.

 

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I wonder if improving the map could be done by the community.  I have an old tutorial for Rise of Flight that explains how to add additional villages to the map, together with the correct ground textures. The BoX mission editor still has the necessary map editing options, but I have no idea if they still work.

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38 minutes ago, 76IAP-Black said:

It is not about a village or two is missing, but the biggest industrial area in germany during WW2 is nonexcistent. 

 

Yes, unfortunately this is true and it is rather a pity.  It really should contain a much larger urban area.   WW2 is really the watershed of the railway age and the Bodenplatte map should contain some of the densest concentrations of rail networks in the world but......:(

 

I've flown on it a great deal recently with a squad campaign we're running and the occasional forey onto Combat Box.  It  is a nice map and there is lots to like about it.  Ironically, I find it one of the easiest maps to navigate across as the lack of conurbations mean you  simply 'island hop' from big town to big town.

 

I think the Kuban map has set the standard.......

 

 

Edited by DD_Arthur
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I find it just great to have the map of that size. I have many things in "my area" too. Since all the nice big dams are missing. Möhne, Sorpe and so on. Operation chastise etc.

 

Also werl and neheim are on the map while arnsberg is not. Looks weird. But I can live with it.

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The overall FPS of this SIM has been pulled up at least 30+, and the scene performance has also been improved.

We have at least seen the dawn of more improved Rheinland map.

We have more capital to put more things into this map.

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2 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

It's as poor as Kuban is good - and the Kuban map is very, very good.

With one exception. The towns are much better on the Rheinland map than on the Kuban and Stalingrad maps. The towns really look like towns not like big parks with a lot of trees and some houses between. Only exception from that is the Moscow map, on which the towns look much better than on the other two russian maps.

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I like the maps in il2, and it seems they are very accurate for the game itself.
The cities and villages on Kuban are right as they are. 
Also the cities on the Rheinland map are very nicely done and you can navigate with the landscape pretty easy if you know the area. That's a big pro on this map.
I just miss the "landmarks" as the industrial areas and the towns and cities i have marked on the pic. 

Some ground targets like railyards, depots, and other stuff you could attack ad bomb or defend, are missing and that's a pitty.
Would be great to have a way to donate some money for the improvements on the Rheinland map.

So far, i like it, i fly there and enjoy Battle of Bodenplatte! And i am hoping for an upgrade in the future

And yes the pic is from a later period, but it looked similar, ignore the cars :friends:

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my only issue with this map is the ground texture repeats in a way that has very noticeable "lines" of the same texture pattern off into the horizon.

If the map is done and not being worked on for future updates I think that's fine! I think i'm just being nit picky.  

 

2020-06-03 21_43_33-Il-2 Sturmovik.jpg

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I suspect they would agree now that they were over-ambitious and made the map too big. It worked for the previous maps they made, but Bodenplatte was the first really industrial area with lots of cities.

 

Suspect they got 3/4 of the way through, then realised that their usual optimisations were not going to be enough to bring playable frame rates,  and had no option but to cut back severely on number of objects and cities.

 

Jason has said already that Channel map will be smaller, and it has fewer big cities as well as an expanse of sea, so seems they learnt a lesson here.

 

Edited by kendo
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While I do agree with others about the lack of yards/depots/industry/villages I really appreciate the effort they put in the airfields.

 

Another point I would like to add is that most of the german ground equipment (artillery/anti air and anti tank guns) and vehicles/tanks in the game are still painted in Dunkelgrau (dark grey) which should be extremely rare if not non-existent by 1944/1945, even exclusive Dunkelgelb (dark yellow) which the new vehicles are painted in (Jadgpanzer IV/Sdkfz 7 + Flak/Flakvierling 38) should be rare for the period of the career, most german units in late war where painted in an mix of 3 main colors namely : Dunkelgelb (dark yellow), Rotbraun (red-brown) and Olivegrun (olive green), hopefully this is addressed with Normandy.

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