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HP Reverb Second Generation 2020

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IL-2 GB and Golf are my two primary hobbies that get most of my retired time.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I dunno how much a golf club membership costs, or a bowling club + beer money, but a $600 headset and a $600 GPU every couple of years is a lot cheaper than some other hobbies.

600 of our European Gold is what a yearly membership in our aeroclub costs me.

 

So yeah, you are right 👍

Edited by apollon01

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2020 at 1:32 PM, dburne said:

IL-2 GB and Golf are my two primary hobbies that get most of my retired time.


Well I am not yet retired but we share at least two passions err I mean hobbies! 
 

And by the way golf does not suck,  players suck 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TheSNAFU

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, TheSNAFU said:


Well I am not yet retired but we share at least two passions err I mean hobbies! 
 

And by the way golf does not suck,  players suck 😂

 

 

Lol yeah, but only on certain days. In my case, probably more the norm rather than the exception.

Typically I am doing one of two things on any given day,  flying IL-2 GB or golf.  Sometimes both.

Occasionally other games thrown into the mix.

Edited by dburne

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Can’t think of a better way to spend time than fighting great battles in the sky and on the links! I think I’m a better pilot than golfer but I work equally hard at both! Enjoy!!

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15 hours ago, TheSNAFU said:


Well I am not yet retired but we share at least two passions err I mean hobbies! 
 

And by the way golf does not suck,  players suck 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the interest of protecting my shattered ego, already pummelled by getting owned online by virtual experten, I decided that golf itself sucked, rather than that I was a hack.

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Posted (edited)

Ditto. Another pre-order. Push the Rift S out to pasture soon. 

Edited by [CPT]HawkeyeP

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On 7/20/2020 at 1:54 AM, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

 

What did you not like at the Index?

 

I loved it. However with the Reverb G2 on the horizon and the Index selling for several hundred more then I purchased it for I decided to let it go at a profit. The fact that IL2 is so CPU bound I could never use the 120/144hz modes even with a beastly rig. The amount of SS I ran with the Index matches the Reverb G2's resolution and it's cheaper so it all added up to an easy choice to make. The hardest part is a few months of no VR simming! 

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22 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

 

I loved it. However with the Reverb G2 on the horizon and the Index selling for several hundred more then I purchased it for I decided to let it go at a profit. The fact that IL2 is so CPU bound I could never use the 120/144hz modes even with a beastly rig. The amount of SS I ran with the Index matches the Reverb G2's resolution and it's cheaper so it all added up to an easy choice to make. The hardest part is a few months of no VR simming! 

 

I bought the Index to fill the gap until the G2 comes out in my country, you must think I'm crazy :)

 

I don't run any SS though, visually it doesn't remove the shimmering so I thought it wasn't worth it. I just keep it at 90Hz very stable instead at 100% res.

 

Hoping the G2 can be free of shimmering without SS, and a clearer picture.. I'm not really happy with the resolution on the Index. Shame HP is so restrictive to only pre-sell to 1 country so far or I wouldn't have bought the index.

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On 8/22/2020 at 1:12 PM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

 

I loved it. However with the Reverb G2 on the horizon and the Index selling for several hundred more then I purchased it for I decided to let it go at a profit. The fact that IL2 is so CPU bound I could never use the 120/144hz modes even with a beastly rig. The amount of SS I ran with the Index matches the Reverb G2's resolution and it's cheaper so it all added up to an easy choice to make. The hardest part is a few months of no VR simming! 

exactly my thinking and what i did with my index...

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I've pre-ordered the G2 and am going to build a rig to support it around my current GPU - an RTX 2070 Super.  I would like more info on the "IL2 is so CPU bound" comment above, and hear thoughts on best CPU for IL2.  I am leaning hard towards a Ryzen 3700X, but could potentially be swayed back to Intel - or to a 3900X - if someone presents a compelling explanation.  Single core clock speeds vs. unsupported multi-threading for example.  Any input appreciated.

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1 hour ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

I've pre-ordered the G2 and am going to build a rig to support it around my current GPU - an RTX 2070 Super.  I would like more info on the "IL2 is so CPU bound" comment above, and hear thoughts on best CPU for IL2.  I am leaning hard towards a Ryzen 3700X, but could potentially be swayed back to Intel - or to a 3900X - if someone presents a compelling explanation.  Single core clock speeds vs. unsupported multi-threading for example.  Any input appreciated.

 

I've got a Ryzen 3700X, it's an excellent chip.

 

In terms of CPU bound, I never hit it in 2D ultra-wide 3440x1440 or in VR. My 2D FPS was 140+. VR is 90-100+ so I run at 90Hz without re-projection.

 

Testing in VR with fpsVR tool the CPU frametime is always lower than the GPU. This may change when the Nvidia 30X0 series comes out later this year I don't know how much faster it will be. I don't even know if it will fit in my PC, it looks massive!

 

If you turn up all the settings and add loads of supersampling and AA, then the CPU binding becomes visible but the GPU binding is still there anyway.

 

If you make a mission with way too many AI and ground objects then the CPU will come closer to binding the speed.

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On 8/23/2020 at 3:23 PM, Dan_Taipan said:

 

I've got a Ryzen 3700X, it's an excellent chip.

 

In terms of CPU bound, I never hit it in 2D ultra-wide 3440x1440 or in VR. My 2D FPS was 140+. VR is 90-100+ so I run at 90Hz without re-projection.

 

Testing in VR with fpsVR tool the CPU frametime is always lower than the GPU. This may change when the Nvidia 30X0 series comes out later this year I don't know how much faster it will be. I don't even know if it will fit in my PC, it looks massive!

 

If you turn up all the settings and add loads of supersampling and AA, then the CPU binding becomes visible but the GPU binding is still there anyway.

 

If you make a mission with way too many AI and ground objects then the CPU will come closer to binding the speed.

Thanks for the input.  What fprVR tool? Is that the name or is there one in particular you use?  Any thoughts on the new intel chips - faster, but not as multi-threaded.  Built to OC, which is not really my bag, but likely faster on a mild/conservative OC than Ryzen. Is the binding factor CPU speed, cores, threads?  Really only flying MP so AI objects is limited issue.  

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5 hours ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

Thanks for the input.  What fprVR tool? Is that the name or is there one in particular you use?  Any thoughts on the new intel chips - faster, but not as multi-threaded.  Built to OC, which is not really my bag, but likely faster on a mild/conservative OC than Ryzen. Is the binding factor CPU speed, cores, threads?  Really only flying MP so AI objects is limited issue.  

 

fpsVR is the name yep, this one: https://store.steampowered.com/app/908520/fpsVR/

You can run it as an overlay, and have it auto start, pop up or hide it etc.

 

I should mention when I said 90-100fps without re-projection, that is with 100% normal resolution in Steam SS settings. With 150% SS the cockpits and gauges look much nicer and this is running at 80-85fps which I set at 80Hz. Still deciding which one I like best. With the HP Reverb though you wouldn't need SS and can just run 100% res.

 

I'm not across the Intel chips, as I only researched AMD for my build since it was the most powerful for the budget at the time. I did hear at the very top end Intel was faster but also heard there's some settings you should disable in windows for it to run fastest, best you get into some research.. took me ages to decide my build. Did most of it through PcPartpicker.com

 

 

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Yeah, I currently have a PCPartPicker build set up, but am constantly monkeying with it.  Currently centered around an AMD 3700x and an MSI X570 mobo.  Like I said, carrying my RTX 2070 Super forward until I see whether next-gen Nvidia is any real advantage.  I think all the case builders will have to make new cases to fit it!

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31 minutes ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

Yeah, I currently have a PCPartPicker build set up, but am constantly monkeying with it.  Currently centered around an AMD 3700x and an MSI X570 mobo.  Like I said, carrying my RTX 2070 Super forward until I see whether next-gen Nvidia is any real advantage.  I think all the case builders will have to make new cases to fit it!

I'm looking forward to the next gen GPUs as well! Super curious about Big Navi. Why the x570 mobo though? I'd go for a B550. Save some cash, use it for other stuff that matters more. I have an MSI B450 mortar max mobo. Perfectly fine, you could even get that. PCI express 4.0 isn't going to do anything for us this generation or the next.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, blue_max said:

I'm looking forward to the next gen GPUs as well! Super curious about Big Navi. Why the x570 mobo though? I'd go for a B550. Save some cash, use it for other stuff that matters more. I have an MSI B450 mortar max mobo. Perfectly fine, you could even get that. PCI express 4.0 isn't going to do anything for us this generation or the next.

 

For myself the X570 gives:

-Support for my lightning speed SSD (needs PCIe 4.0)

-Upgrade to next gen AMD CPU

-More USB3

-USBC on front panel

 

Yeah we could get the old model, but if spending thousands on an upgradeable PC an extra $100 for a good motherboard - it's really the core component that is too hard to change later.

 

23 hours ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

Yeah, I currently have a PCPartPicker build set up, but am constantly monkeying with it.  Currently centered around an AMD 3700x and an MSI X570 mobo.  Like I said, carrying my RTX 2070 Super forward until I see whether next-gen Nvidia is any real advantage.  I think all the case builders will have to make new cases to fit it!

 

I got the 3800x, mainly because it comes with a decent cooler saves me researching an extra part to buy. Not too expensive anyway.

Make sure you get fast RAM, important for the AMD chips to work at full capacity.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/TaipanDan/saved/

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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Get the fastest CPU on the market you can afford. It is that easy.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Gomoto said:

Get the fastest CPU on the market you can afford. It is that easy.

 

That would be i9-10900k. However some reviewers say that you can get a regular i9-10900 for much cheaper and easily thermally-overclock it to reach the levels of i9-10900k ( https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-10900/ ). Also: according to them such thermal overclocking allows you to preserve single-thread optimizations that Intel engineers built into the chip, so it looks like i9-10900 may actually end-up faster than the k-version in single-threaded applications such as IL2 . I wanted to go that route myself, but to my amazement I was able to effortlessly overclock my old i3-8350k to 5.0Ghz on a 140mm Noctua air cooler. At 5.0 my Prime95 benchmark fails, but I have yet to see any crashes while playing IL2 or during other day-to-day computer usage.

Edited by WheelwrightPL

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7 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

At 5.0 my Prime95 benchmark fails, but I have yet to see any crashes while playing IL2 or during other day-to-day computer usage.

 

yes, Prime95 is stressing your CPU much harder than IL-2 VR. At the end of the day you don´t have the PC to run Prime95 all day, you have for IL-2 VR and maybe other things.

 

I was talking about that here:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/56485-benchmark-for-cpuram-performance-remagen-4002-to-4005/?do=findComment&comment=879998

 

oc-test.thumb.png.49b05fe184d9ed12c6198b967f143af3.png

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Posted (edited)

add another preorder to the list... 

.giphy.gif

 

 

 

On 8/23/2020 at 1:33 PM, ACG_PanzerV said:

I've pre-ordered the G2 and am going to build a rig to support it around my current GPU - an RTX 2070 Super.  I would like more info on the "IL2 is so CPU bound" comment above, and hear thoughts on best CPU for IL2.  I am leaning hard towards a Ryzen 3700X, but could potentially be swayed back to Intel - or to a 3900X - if someone presents a compelling explanation.  Single core clock speeds vs. unsupported multi-threading for example.  Any input appreciated.

 

I got the same problem. I'm leaning toward a 3900x but it's a tough decision. When I fly I usually have alot of stuff running in the background so I'm guessing 3900x will be better if you are running discord and SRS radio and a web browser and all the VR software running and so on?

Edited by TeufelHunden

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On 8/23/2020 at 7:33 PM, ACG_PanzerV said:

I've pre-ordered the G2 and am going to build a rig to support it around my current GPU - an RTX 2070 Super.  I would like more info on the "IL2 is so CPU bound" comment above, and hear thoughts on best CPU for IL2.  I am leaning hard towards a Ryzen 3700X, but could potentially be swayed back to Intel - or to a 3900X - if someone presents a compelling explanation.  Single core clock speeds vs. unsupported multi-threading for example.  Any input appreciated.

 

On 8/23/2020 at 9:23 PM, Dan_Taipan said:

 

I've got a Ryzen 3700X, it's an excellent chip.

 

In terms of CPU bound, I never hit it in 2D ultra-wide 3440x1440 or in VR. My 2D FPS was 140+. VR is 90-100+ so I run at 90Hz without re-projection.

 

 

I am going to give a different point of view here.

 

IL2 can be CPU or GPU bound depending, of course, on your CPU and GPU, but also on the level of details you are requesting. If your GPU is good enough, and you are GPU bound, you can always reduce the level of details and the GPU will do the job. For example, with my 1070 (which is bare minimum for an Oculus Rift), I am never GPU bound when I put super-sampling at 1 and details at low. I can go higher than that but if I want to be sure never to miss a frame because of the GPU that's what I do.

 

But when you have solved this GPU issue by reducing your ambitions in terms of image quality, you will realize you are CPU-bound. You will not constantly reach 90 FPS in VR even with the best existing CPU. You will reach it maybe 95% of the time, maybe 99%, not sure. But at some point at low altitude with several bandits on screen you will get the infamous micro-stutters / ghost effect, some people don't care (lucky ones) some hate them (me).

 

So if you want to reduce the number of these micro-stutters as much as possible, get the fastest possible CPU, otherwise you will regret it. 5% makes a world of difference, because the IL2 reaches about 90 FPS with top-notch modern CPUs, so if you are just a bit above it's great, if you are under it's bad. 5% faster might mean twice less micro-stutters.

 

I personnaly own a i5-9600k at 4.7 GHz and I push it to 5 GHz specifically when I play IL2, this is really annoying but I don't want to have a big noisy turbine in my living room all the time. In IL2, switching from 4.7 to 5GHz makes a big difference.

 

It seems from benchmarks that Intel perform better than AMD in IL2 (it is mostly mono-threaded). So go for an Intel processor, the biggest one.

 

 

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To echo the above poster, if your only use-case is IL2 in VR you should without doubt get an Intel chip. A 9700K, 9600K, or 10700K are all great chips and you can clock them to 5.0ghz easily. You can even eke out 5.1 if you get lucky, have good cooling, and can switch off hyper-threading.

 

You need to pair the 5ghz Intel CPU with a good motherboard and, critically, fast RAM. IL2 struggles in VR with 2666 RAM, and you'll even see a difference going from 3200 to 3600.

 

If you have use-cases beyond IL2 in VR, then sure, consider an AMD. You get a lot of cores for your money. But IL2 doesn't care about cores, it only cares about clock speed, IPC, and memory latency.

 

My suspicion is that people might care about lots of cores in theory, but in practice it doesn't make a lot of difference. I have an 8086K with HT disabled, so it's just 6 cores. I develop stuff for IL2 in Visual Studio, I have the game editor open and the game itself as well, and I don't notice the lack of extra cores. If I stream my gameplay, I use NVENC anyhow to get the encoding load off my CPU entirely.

 

I think Intel are scumbags and AMD is a much better choice in general. But for our niche -- VR flight simulators -- Intel is the better choice.

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30 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

 

I think Intel are scumbags and AMD is a much better choice in general. But for our niche -- VR flight simulators -- Intel is the better choice.

 

Yes this.

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2 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I think Intel are scumbags and AMD is a much better choice in general. But for our niche -- VR flight simulators -- Intel is the better choice.

 

Absolutely.  I got the Ryzen 7 1800X as soon as it came out, but was unsatisfied with VR performance.  A year later I switched to the i7-8700K and was blown away.

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Hmmm... HP hasn't actually charged my Reverb G2 pre-order on my credit card yet... but I think this may still be a case where a bird (HMD) in the hand (on the face) is better than two (speculative hardware) in the bush 

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7 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

Hmmm... HP hasn't actually charged my Reverb G2 pre-order on my credit card yet... but I think this may still be a case where a bird (HMD) in the hand (on the face) is better than two (speculative hardware) in the bush 

 

Agreed. Omnicept is just speculation at this time.

I am sure not cancelling my Reverb G2 order.

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What the heck is “face tracking” ? Like, if you’re smiling or not?

 

Tech journalism is just garbage. Eye tracking actually would be a good feature on a mainstream headset, especially at 2k x 2k resolution per eye. DFR as demonstrated on Pimax can give you more than a 50% FPS boost. Reverb would benefit a lot from eye tracking.

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On 8/13/2020 at 11:03 PM, TimJ147 said:

 

 

I’m curious as to what the white dots are around the lenses in the picture above.  They just remind me of the eye tracking arrays seen in other headsets, or headset mods.  Maybe the G2’s killer feature still has to be revealed, wouldn’t that be a nice surprise for FS 2020 and maybe why it was suggested that the G2 was going to be the first VR headset to be compatible ?

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14 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

I’m curious as to what the white dots are around the lenses in the picture above.  They just remind me of the eye tracking arrays seen in other headsets, or headset mods.  Maybe the G2’s killer feature still has to be revealed, wouldn’t that be a nice surprise for FS 2020 and maybe why it was suggested that the G2 was going to be the first VR headset to be compatible ?

 

Seems that "may" be coming in the Omnicept Edition I posted earlier.

Just a leak and nothing official yet. Certainly is interesting.

 

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27 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

I’m curious as to what the white dots are around the lenses in the picture above

I hope nothing functional since I will cover them with prescription lenses inserts 🙃

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If eye tracking was included in the G2 by default, would it be acceptable for HP to then sell it as a software enabled add-on and if so how much would you be willing to stump up for the percieved (😊) benefit ?  I would seriously consider it if it was anywhere around the £100 mark, and if it's benefit was truely revolutionary and developer supported then probably even double that, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than a new graphics card.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

If eye tracking was included in the G2 by default, would it be acceptable for HP to then sell it as a software enabled add-on and if so how much would you be willing to stump up for the percieved (😊) benefit ?  I would seriously consider it if it was anywhere around the £100 mark, and if it's benefit was truely revolutionary and developer supported then probably even double that, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than a new graphics card.

 

I think it depends. Personally if I bought hardware including a feature I'd expect the software to be fully enabled. Pimax for example has a modular system so you can add eye tracking, which is something like a $200 option, but once you've bought the hardware they enable the eye tracking at a driver level so it works with most games.

 

The whole "buy a Tesla with a bunch of self-driving hardware but we only enable it if you pay extra $$$ to unlock it" seems shady to me. I guess it's ok if people know ahead of time what the costs will be.

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On 8/28/2020 at 6:24 PM, BlueHeron said:

 

Absolutely.  I got the Ryzen 7 1800X as soon as it came out, but was unsatisfied with VR performance.  A year later I switched to the i7-8700K and was blown away.

 

Also running the 8700k and it laughs at everything VR I throw at it.

I'm looking at upgrading to the G2 from a Rift S but in the UK there only seems to be SystemActive, are they legit as they look like a small operation especially as it looks like they want the full amount for the G2 upfront with no details on delivery?

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17 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

I think it depends. Personally if I bought hardware including a feature I'd expect the software to be fully enabled. Pimax for example has a modular system so you can add eye tracking, which is something like a $200 option, but once you've bought the hardware they enable the eye tracking at a driver level so it works with most games.

 

The whole "buy a Tesla with a bunch of self-driving hardware but we only enable it if you pay extra $$$ to unlock it" seems shady to me. I guess it's ok if people know ahead of time what the costs will be.

 

 

I hope it does. I got Pimax' ET here already, but all I can do is put it on my nose in front of the mirror like glasses 🤓 and blubber engine sounds, imagening to myself how cool it would be.

 

Because I'm still waiting for the damn Vision 8KX. Thank you Pimax! 😑

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Got a message from my retailer that my pre-ordered G2 delivery is being delayed by HP to „install new and better lenses“. New expected delivery: end of October. Anybody getting updates from HP or their respective retailers?

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40 minutes ago, ACG_Mephisto said:

Got a message from my retailer that my pre-ordered G2 delivery is being delayed by HP to „install new and better lenses“. New expected delivery: end of October. Anybody getting updates from HP or their respective retailers?

 

I received the same info today from bestware via e-mail.

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I have not received notification of a delay from Connection yet.

I believe I did receive something from them a couple weeks or so ago.

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