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HP Reverb Second Generation 2020

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

Do you think the image clarity will be a lot better than original Reverb?

And if so, will that come with a higher performance hit over the Reverb?

 

They've got an improved panel where they claim they've fixed mura, increased edge-to-edge clarity (with Valve's lens design, they are co-designed and Valve probably allowed them to use a patent), and they claim lower persistence, so the image will seem more stable with less ghosting. I think those things will give a good boost over the original Reverb, especially since one of the complaints was the small "sweet spot" (i.e. you can't look with your eyes, gotta look with your head).

 

Pixel count and refresh rate are the same (2160 x 2160, 90hz) so the performance needed to power it should be the same. One of the guys was running his Index at 200% Steam supersample last night to emulate the Reverb pixel count, and got acceptable performance out of his 2080ti.

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35 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

They've got an improved panel where they claim they've fixed mura, increased edge-to-edge clarity (with Valve's lens design, they are co-designed and Valve probably allowed them to use a patent), and they claim lower persistence, so the image will seem more stable with less ghosting. I think those things will give a good boost over the original Reverb, especially since one of the complaints was the small "sweet spot" (i.e. you can't look with your eyes, gotta look with your head).

 

Pixel count and refresh rate are the same (2160 x 2160, 90hz) so the performance needed to power it should be the same. One of the guys was running his Index at 200% Steam supersample last night to emulate the Reverb pixel count, and got acceptable performance out of his 2080ti.

 

Ok thanks for the info.

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2 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

Pre order is finally up!

 

RGR that ...Done

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3 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

Pre order is finally up!

 

Hmm, looks US-only. Anyone see a Canada preorder link?

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7 hours ago, dburne said:

Curious to hear what you think might improve with the G2?

 

Yes, it might be weird to buy again a Reverb (G2 this time) having kept my Index. It was a very tough decision.

Firstly you can review this key posts: 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=814439

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=815845

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=817006

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=820116

 

The last link is the summary:

 

"As said in previous threads I kept the Index because:

 

1.- Larger FOV, both vertically and horizontally. It helps me to get more IN the game.

2.- Larger Sweet Spot, I really want to move my eyes in all directions without too much losing clarity

3.- Better performance, at 80Hz it works relatively well in my PC without Motion Smoothing. (Although the Reverb WMR with Motion Reproj does a quite good job)

4.- Minor thing: the nice audio, not touching your ears.

5.- Minor thing: Good tracking with lights off

 

The bad things are:

1.- Less resolution in the center of view. REverb is impressive on the center. 

2.- More weight. REverb is really light and comfortable. With the Index I have to do some DIY weight compensation."

 

So this new Reverb G2 will solve the following items over the previous REverb:

1. A sweet spot on the same level of the Index (almost from edge to edge), since the lenses has been designed by Valve and also remove the glare.The LCD panels are also different but with same resolution.

2. Better performance due to the better integration with SteamVR

and just minor things for me

3. Better audio, on the Index level

4. Thinner and longer cable with no bloody connector!

5. Perhaps better confort since face mask was similar to Index, but with the weight of Reverb

6. Mechanical IPD adjust

 

So now it would be even more difficult to decide which one should I keep. I think I will keep G2 because resolution and weight, but let´s see how much I miss the better vertical and horizontal FOV of Index.

Regarding performance, by the end of this year I am thinking to upgrade to new NVIDIA 3000 series, so no problem on that.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the info.

You do realize an RTX 30xx is going to beg for a 9xxx or 10xxx processor to feed it.

;)

 

I do think I am going to wait to see reports on the forums of how this new HP offering is. Going to be a while before it is out anyway.

Edited by dburne

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7 hours ago, dburne said:

You do realize an RTX 30xx is going to beg for a 9xxx or 10xxx processor to feed it.

 

Is thet really true?

Is there any imcompatibility of my 4970K with 2080S or 3080?

Any limitation of my current small but still great Mobo with PCI-E Gen3: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z97M-GAMING/Specification

 

The 4790K was released on Q2-2017 and it is working fine with my 1080Ti release 3 years later.

 

With the new referred render my current 4790K is quite OK, I don´t need more CPU power, but a better GPU will be welcomed for the Reverb G2.

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2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Is thet really true?

Is there any imcompatibility of my 4970K with 2080S or 3080?

Any limitation of my current small but still great Mobo with PCI-E Gen3: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z97M-GAMING/Specification

 

The 4790K was released on Q2-2017 and it is working fine with my 1080Ti release 3 years later.

 

With the new referred render my current 4790K is quite OK, I don´t need more CPU power, but a better GPU will be welcomed for the Reverb G2.

 

Fyi 4790k was released 2nd quarter 2014.

It's expected discontinuance was July 2017.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/80807/intel-core-i7-4790k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

 

But yeah it is your rig and certainly there would be no limitation throwing a new GPU in it.

If you are happy with it, might be smarter to wait for new 7nm chips and DDR 5 ram.

 

 

 

 

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Not enough significant changes to make me want to change from my current Reverb v2, IMO.

 

If the FOV was wider I might be tempted, but it isn't, so I might just sit out this particular product cycle.

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I currently own the index. I think i will go with the G2. Simply because of the higher resolution. Slightly narrower FOV is no issue since we have the nice check six mod now.
And the money I save i will buy some wheels for my bike😀
I hope i will be able to preorder soon here in germany.

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45 minutes ago, Winger said:

I currently own the index. I think i will go with the G2. Simply because of the higher resolution. Slightly narrower FOV is no issue since we have the nice check six mod now.
And the money I save i will buy some wheels for my bike😀
I hope i will be able to preorder soon here in germany.

 

I've just pre-ordered one from the same place as Chili (see below). I'm not in Germany but I'm sure they are shipping there too.

 

 

On 5/29/2020 at 4:10 PM, chiliwili69 said:

Here:  https://www.derekenwinkel.nl/hp-reverb-g2-new-generation.html

 

It is the same page where I bought my HP Reverb last year.

 

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Thanks. Ill probably wait till the official german preorders start. Shipping is supposed to be at the same time worldwide anyways.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2020 at 4:10 PM, chiliwili69 said:

 

Here:  https://www.derekenwinkel.nl/hp-reverb-g2-new-generation.html

 

It is the same page where I bought my HP Reverb last year.

For what I know you live in Spain. Did you use the HP warranty for your previous G1 ? I am not completely sure HP Spain would honor the warranty and you may have to send it back to Netherlands, to derekenwinkel.

Edited by E69_Qpassa_VR

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2020 at 7:45 PM, Alonzo said:

increased edge-to-edge clarity (with Valve's lens design, they are co-designed and Valve probably allowed them to use a patent)

Translated to bigger sweet spot.

 

This might be the only argument (to be confirmed by users here and on other fora) that could flip me into buying since I am already happy with what the G1 offers in the other departments.

Edited by apollon01

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Posted (edited)

With my Reverb tracking and positioning is not an issue.

 

Tracking problems with WMR is an issue that occasionally comes up. For seated playing like a flight sim I can offer the following suggestions.

 

First, when you go into the cliff house do look around on all axis to calibrate. A shortcut here is where most issues reside.

 

Secondly when you go into the cliff house have your monitor on with a grey or lighter color background. The cameras in looking forward uses the bright square of the monitor to know where it is.

 

Lastly, have room lights on so the cameras have something to calibrate from. Its not just light in front of you that counts. Overhead, other lamps behind help it to map its surroundings.

 

jokkr

 

And on another subject, I've been using rear projection at a rock solid 45 fps and I've had no issues with frame rate. Or have I,   and I'm just not aware as everything seems smooth enough. 

 

I cant see enough detail (more of a contrast issue, not resolution) unless I have max shadows selected.

Edited by JG51_jokkr
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16 hours ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

For what I know you live in Spain. Did you use the HP warranty for your previous G1 ? I am not completely sure HP Spain would honor the warranty and you may have to send it back to Netherlands, to derekenwinkel.

 

Yes I live in Spain, in Zaragoza. I didn´t use the warranty of my previous G1, I only use it for 1-2 months after resolving that I was going to keep my current Index. I gave it to a team I love too much.

I really don´t know how the 2-year warranty would work in this case. 

If the device shows a defect just at arrival then I think I have 15 days to deliver it back to the retailer. After this 15 days then it is the warranty.

I am not sure if HP Spain will cover the warranty for people who live in Spain with HP european products, this is something I will need to know if I keep the G2 and something doesn´t work.

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On Thursday June 25 at 8:30am PT / 11:30am ET / 4:30pm BST, XR Intelligence is running an exclusive webinar with HP and some of their collaborators to reveal their sneak peek into the latest headset, its capabilities and the applications for which it can deliver the greatest ROI.

 

https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/7910661112487582221?source=HP+Webinar+Kathryn+Email+Share

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On 6/3/2020 at 1:23 PM, JG51_jokkr said:

With my Reverb tracking and positioning is not an issue.

 

Tracking problems with WMR is an issue that occasionally comes up. For seated playing like a flight sim I can offer the following suggestions.

 

First, when you go into the cliff house do look around on all axis to calibrate. A shortcut here is where most issues reside.

 

Secondly when you go into the cliff house have your monitor on with a grey or lighter color background. The cameras in looking forward uses the bright square of the monitor to know where it is.

 

Lastly, have room lights on so the cameras have something to calibrate from. Its not just light in front of you that counts. Overhead, other lamps behind help it to map its surroundings.

 

jokkr

 

And on another subject, I've been using rear projection at a rock solid 45 fps and I've had no issues with frame rate. Or have I,   and I'm just not aware as everything seems smooth enough. 

 

I cant see enough detail (more of a contrast issue, not resolution) unless I have max shadows selected.

Good advice.  I switched my monitor to have the game full screen and started having issues, thanks.

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Does anybody know if the G2 Reverb has still the same Hardware Option like the G1 in terms of swapping the Audio Headphones and use your own Headphones with a cable Connection?

I love that Option with my G1, because I always prefer my own Quality In Ear Headphones.

 

Using the G1 Reverb my priority will be updating my PC Hardware...…….I am waiting for the RTX 3080Ti. My 1080Ti is not the first choice anymore.

 

Thanks

 

 

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@spitfirejoe The new version reverb does not have a 3.5mm audio jack. HP recommends bluetooth earphones if user isn't happy with the over the ear speakers provided.

These are the same speakers the Vive Index have and I haven't seen or heard of anyone complaining about sound quality.

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One thing I love about the Index is their speakers, They don´t touch the ears at all. And the spatial sound is great, although I would like to have them closer to my ears so I can have better bass.

In fact, I have written to Valve to ask them to develop just a gaming headset based in their speakers, just only for the audio and microphone, not VR. It could be a band around the head with the speakers and micro stick attached. I will use it for my job webmeetings, currently I have tried multiple options an all of them are bad after 1-2 hour of use (I use glasses for work but not for VR)

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8 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

@spitfirejoe The new version reverb does not have a 3.5mm audio jack. HP recommends bluetooth earphones if user isn't happy with the over the ear speakers provided.

These are the same speakers the Vive Index have and I haven't seen or heard of anyone complaining about sound quality.

 

Hmm that would probably make that one a no go for me. I much prefer using earbuds.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

@spitfirejoe The new version reverb does not have a 3.5mm audio jack. HP recommends bluetooth earphones if user isn't happy with the over the ear speakers provided.

These are the same speakers the Vive Index have and I haven't seen or heard of anyone complaining about sound quality.

 

Hi. thanks for your input. Maybe many others are happy with that kind of Sound solution. For me personally that is a total NoGo, because I have a Motion rig and use a strong Buttkicker which makes quite some noise. I use inEar headphones to be completely isolated from any other disturbing noise around me.

VR Gaming is about immersion.........your eyes and your view are completely inside the HMD and you can not see what´s going on outside......…..same I need for my sound and my ears, I want to be inside the world. With a kind of speaker style headphone like the Valve and Reverb Gen2 have I am not completely isolated......….hearing the real world around me and my Buttkicker and motion actuators would be a total immersion killer.

I need my jack connection for my inEars like I have in the REVERB Gen1.........I love it for that!

Bluetooth is ok if you go for a walk outside and want to listen music...…...inside my house I don´t want that Bluetooth crap which needs annoying battery charging all the time.

 

I don´t understand what´s so great about the new Valve Sound concept!?

 

At the end of the day I will wait and look for first reviews after the Gen2 did launch. Then I can still decide if I want to upgrade and try to live with Bluetooth headphones.

Better wearing comfort, a much better 6 meter cable, better lenses and better LCD screens with more clarity and better colours  sound tempting.

My main problem with the Gen1 is not mura or fixed IPD. My main problem is the fucking stiff 2 canal cable which breaks and causes trouble and second is the wearing comfort, my nose gets squeezed all the time by the hard plastic and that hurts after some hours.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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4 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I don´t understand what´s so great about the new Valve Sound concept!?

 

The masses that have hyped the Valve Index since last year. I don't like the sound design either, it bled too much into the environment, and the environment bled in. Got family, so both input and output shared is a no-go. I've tested all of the different sound concepts, and nothing beats my Sennheiser PXC-550. Light, sturdy, super-comfy, activate noise-cancellation and you're GONE. 

 

By the way, do you have pictures of that motion right? Really interesting.

 

 

P.S. Due to the lack of Audiojack the Reverb G2 disqualifies itself for me too. I intended to test it and mix it up with my Index Controllers and the Sennheiser's.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

The masses that have hyped the Valve Index since last year. I don't like the sound design either, it bled too much into the environment, and the environment bled in. Got family, so both input and output shared is a no-go. I've tested all of the different sound concepts, and nothing beats my Sennheiser PXC-550. Light, sturdy, super-comfy, activate noise-cancellation and you're GONE. 

 

By the way, do you have pictures of that motion right? Really interesting.

 

 

P.S. Due to the lack of Audiojack the Reverb G2 disqualifies itself for me too. I intended to test it and mix it up with my Index Controllers and the Sennheiser's.

 

I agree with you 100%. BEST Sound Concepts for VR are noise cancellation headphones with superb Sound Quality. Can be expensive closed headphones or in Ears, both do the job.

Any open headphones which bleeds in sound and noise from outside ( room environment ) is a totaly disgusting immersion killer for VR.

 

My motion rig…………..it´s a DIY project using japanese "HYPERAXIS" actuators from the company FREX. My Motion rig is built and optimized for Sim Racing and NOT for flying, because the actuators can travel maximum 100mm, which is enough for racing but not enough for flying, because it limits too much the maximum pitch and bank angles. For flying I would need another concept to be honest. The pitch and bank angles I can reach are ok for airliner aircrafts but not for warbirds.

 

Here you see a friend of mine trying it with a Formula car in iRacing…..you can hear that the actuators are a bit loud, using my in Ear headphones in VR is totally fine, I don´t hear them.

With the VALVE Index Headphones that would not work at all.

The video is very short and 1 year old, now I don´t use the Rift anymore and I added a Buttkicker "Advance" Bk-4  to my rig for Sim Shaking effects, which adds a lot more immersion.

 

 

Edited by spitfirejoe
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5 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

I don´t understand what´s so great about the new Valve Sound concept!

 

Here you can see the origin of that concept:

https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/deep-dive/ear-speakers

 

IMHO they work great, but I am in a fix chair with no noises around (when I play IL-2 everybody else is still sleeping, even my dog). So the ambient noise is not an issue for me.

 

But in your case good over-ear headphones could also be used if you connect the 3.5mm jack directly to the computer and select that audio output in Windows system (I believe it can be done). The only disadvantage is that you have an extra cable going to the PC, but given that your position is seated it would not be a problem.

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1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

I agree with you 100%.

[...]

 

This is simply amazing. Awesome man. With that setup, you may want to do it justice and order a Pimax 8KX. I will give a review probably within July or early August.

 

I'll compare it to the Valve Index and the Cosmos Elite (w/ Lens-Mod), in-depth. I'll have these two back here again for July. 

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I know you can't tell from a video, but that really does not look much better than my Rift S.

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19 minutes ago, dburne said:

I know you can't tell from a video, but that really does not look much better than my Rift S.

 

Probably also depends on the screen you are watching it. I found the vids with a 4k TV and looked stunning there then I used a HD monitor when pasting them here and they didn't look as good that way.

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The videos above never represent the own view which you will have inside the Reverb. Watching the piture Live inside the Reverb will look much better and more clear than that. 

But what I really can see is that the contrast and colours did improve very much compared to my Gen1 Reverb. Gen 1 Reverb lacks in colours and contrast very much.

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14 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

I don´t understand what´s so great about the new Valve Sound concept!?

 

G2 looks very promising to me.


You might want to give the index audio a try (assuming you haven’t) or at least consider the opinion of those that actually use the index.  It’s either hype or simply a dang fine solution.  The audio is piped into your ears quite remarkably effective and you don’t have to shove plastic into your ears, which isn’t very immersive.  
 

I have never had the Sound “bleed” into the headset nor bleed out of it; though admittedly I don’t have my computer setup in a boiler room to test the limits.

 

I am personally thrilled the reverb adopted this audio solution

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Saw the first video and agreed with dburne's comment about not being much  better than the Rift S. I actually thought it was fuzzy and the gauges harder to read.

 

However, to my eyes, the second video is a big improvement over the first video.

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Posted (edited)

Well, my Pimax 5K+ with 1080Ti,  Pitool 260,  latest Nvidia drivers, normal FOV and standard graphic non modded settings is just so much more clear and sharp than either video

that I am inclined to believe that the videos must be seriously downgrading the sharpness of the Reverb.   The difference in HMD  clarity is quite simply a day vs night and the Reverb is

constantly touted as the best of the best.   Something must be wrong somewhere. 

 

Edited by fiddlinjim
left out info

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18 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

This is simply amazing. Awesome man. With that setup, you may want to do it justice and order a Pimax 8KX. I will give a review probably within July or early August.

 

I'll compare it to the Valve Index and the Cosmos Elite (w/ Lens-Mod), in-depth. I'll have these two back here again for July. 

Fenris I know you have tested almost all the VR headsets.

Videos like the one above does not mean much really, it just gives you an idea.

HP Reverb gen 1 resolution and clarity Vs Rift S or Index on paper HP Reverb has more resolution.

How would you compared them? Do you notice the increased resolution?

My only personal comparison is when I upgraded from Oculus Rift to Samsung Odyssey + and saw an improvement in resolution, then from Odyssey + to HP Reverb and also noticed a big improvement in resolution.

Gen 2 HP Reverb, same FOV as before, same resolution as before, same price as before, which is good, but what will  HP Gen 1 owners  get? better larger sweetspot? (would be nice) more lively colors? what else? 

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Posted (edited)

@SCG_motoadve In the video he was using an Oculus Rift CV1 so I shot "you need to get a Pimax". But his (amazing) steering wheel throws reflections of LHs, which is why he can't run LH based headsets, spitfirejoe told me. Understandable, if you google his steering wheel, you'll understand why it's an absolute keeper. 

 

Indeed, did have among others the Rift S, 5K+, Index, Cosmos Elite, etc. The resolution bump in the HP Reverb is very noticable over all non-4K headsets. I just could not use the Reverb because my IPD is 69mm. That's too far from Reverb's 64mm - which meant I had distortion and could not position both eyes in the sweet spot. Just one eye at the time, or none. 

 

The same observation is true for the Reverb's 4K, which is true for the Pimax wide FOV - there's no going back once you have enjoyed it (4K or wide FOV). You'll never be pleased.

 

 

That said, for Simmers that have 1) an IPD of 64mm +-1mm, and 2) Reverb G1 ;

 

the Reverb G2 should not have an advantage remotely large enough to spend 700,- on it. The G2 expands the use-case to better roomscale tracking, lighter and longer cable, better controllers, as well as a larger audience due to the IPD slider. The only advantage for Simming should be less mura (if you have that and it disturbs you, if not, forget about it, don't google it if you have no idea what I am talking about) and improved lenses with wider ranging clarity than before.

 

Since I haven't tested this one yet, I'm as smart as you guys are on the G2. No audiojack is an issue.

 

 

 

One important thing to add: Please remember, that with MRTV especially, everything new is always "Wow" and "Awesome" or - as heard in these videos again - "Breathtaking". Including the ultra-low-res StarVR, which is almost unusable in most games (including IL-2 or DCS) due to lack of support. Whatever he says regarding the HP Reverb G2 - it will be always "absolutely amazing". If you watch his videos, keep that in mind, especially the Reverb G1 owners, and don't get carried away by the hyperboles. 

 

 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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On 6/29/2020 at 5:04 PM, dburne said:

I know you can't tell from a video, but that really does not look much better than my Rift S.

 

Awh, c'mon that looks way way sharper than a Rift S!

 

Just preorder the thing. You get +5 degrees horizontal and vertical FOV, ridonculous resolution that will actually take advantage of your rig, great lenses and edge-to-edge clarity, and a kick-ass audio solution.

 

I just got a Pimax Artisan so I'm spoiled by FOV and I don't think I can go back. But the software is also questionable... I think HP + Valve is gonna give you a better experience and if you avoid the wide-FOV headsets entirely you'll never know what you're missing 😉

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