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MattS

Yak-9 First Impressions?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2020 at 4:41 AM, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

@VampireNZ

 

Thanks for sharing that, Sheriff has caught on camera perfectly the issue regarding the fuselage structural strength.. I like his videos - they're always on point.. the tail plane on the Bf 109 to a large degree is vulnerable now and that may indeed be a netcode issue as it does tend to have a catastrophic effect from my experience on QMB or on Combat Box server. We suspected an issue with the fuselage(s) on another thread prior to 4.006 update, but we were waiting to see how the new update would affect things.

 

Just FYI as a spin-off, having spent all of this morning and early afternoon on QMB shooting up fuselages on half a dozen types of fighter with 30mm cannon.. repeatedly, at different angles and at extremely close range (perhaps a hundred or so times) this clearly is not restricted to only the Bf 109's rear fuselage. Heavy damage and severe aerodynamic loss yes - but actually causing a structural failure at the rear part of the fuselage is (as reported) ridiculously difficult if not practically impossible.

 

The only way (I can find) to initiate a fuselage detachment on a fighter (there are rare exceptions) seems to be through direct collision, either from an aircraft colliding into the fuselage or by hitting the ground and it snapping apart. In fact the other night on Combat Box, a fighter flew into my wing while I was in a Ju88 and he cartwheeled off? lol I was hysterical (as was the other player in gunner position) but that's clearly not right..

 

Seems that the rear fuselage strengths are over-rated in strength regards to shock loads and section/frame failure only occurs in the most extreme of cases.. a weapon such as 30mm or 37mm using HE repeatedly in the same pace should certainly cause this. They're basically compact anti-tank/vehicles weapons and they should cause a weak-point to be exploited if only through shock, cracking and buckling of that section/frame of the fuselage. 

 

Problem is I don't reckon each of the individual frames in the fuselage are going to be modelled in terms of being separable and it might be an arduous task to do that so it may require some thought by the Dev team. Equally we don't want airframes falling off left right and centre to all kinds of gunfire, there needs to be realistic proportions.

Edited by Aurora_Stealth

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I have seen several videos of people testing out the Yak-9Ts and it mostly seems to be the 109s that are the problem while 190s die nicely.    OK maybe 'Problem' is open to misunderstanding so let's just say that from what I have seen and experienced,  190s are much more likely to be killed by single 37mm hits and 109s are much more likely to survive three before going down.   I would also venture that 'it seems to me' that 190 pilots are more likely to be killed by shrapnel from hits to the wings than 109 pilots. Whether these observed behaviours mean 190s are too weak or 109s are too strong or it is an illusion is another question.   Did 109s have better pilot protection from the side?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

I have seen several videos of people testing out the Yak-9Ts and it mostly seems to be the 109s that are the problem while 190s die nicely.    OK maybe 'Problem' is open to misunderstanding so let's just say that from what I have seen and experienced,  190s are much more likely to be killed by single 37mm hits and 109s are much more likely to survive three before going down.   I would also venture that 'it seems to me' that 190 pilots are more likely to be killed by shrapnel from hits to the wings than 109 pilots. Whether these observed behaviours mean 190s are too weak or 109s are too strong or it is an illusion is another question.   Did 109s have better pilot protection from the side?

 

Are those tests in MP or SP? I tried the 37mm on Berloga yesterday and was negatively stunned on how many hits I required vs SP. The difference was between 2 and 3 times as many hits. One 109 did a fine soft belly landing after six (!) 37mm HE shells and several 12.7mm hit it on wings, tail and fuselage near cockpit.

 

FW190s expose more of the pilot (higher chance for shrapnel to hit) but structurally they should take more damage.

 

I'd be very happy if finding solutions to the package loss dilemma would be higher on the issues to be fixed list - some sort of package-reception-verification would be very welcome.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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In Qmb I take 109 down first by deflection shooting with  smallest calibre then shoot it down with one HE shell. This happen all the time with no exception. 
so unless it is a internet problem you talk about I am very very confused

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Posted (edited)

 

@56RAF_Roblex

 

The Fw 190 pilot is more exposed in the bubble canopy and sits higher above the cockpit frame, I expect the thick framing that reinforces the glass on the Bf 109 canopy would've also helped to resist fragments and gunfire to an extent at awkward angles of slight deflection. I also suspect bending glass to create the curves for a bubble canopy back in the 1940's would also have made it somewhat more fragile compared to reinforced sections of flat panel glass.. especially if it was easier to laminate or temper panel/flat glass which I seem to recall reading somewhere.

 

The rear headrest is also notably smaller on the Fw 190 and covers less of the rear side quarters of the pilot. Its a difficult trade-off between visibility and protection.

 

1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Are those tests in MP or SP? I tried the 37mm on Berloga yesterday and was negatively stunned on how many hits I required vs SP. The difference was between 2 and 3 times as many hits. One 109 did a fine soft belly landing after six (!) 37mm HE shells and several 12.7mm hit it on wings, tail and fuselage near cockpit.

 

FW190s expose more of the pilot (higher chance for shrapnel to hit) but structurally they should take more damage.

 

I'd be very happy if finding solutions to the package loss dilemma would be higher on the issues to be fixed list - some sort of package-reception-verification would be very welcome.

 

@216th_Jordan

 

FYI, SAS_Storebror is hitting the road running regarding netcode on a new thread .. worth a good read/watch..

 

 

Edited by Aurora_Stealth
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Since the big update like a month ago with the revamped damage models, the 109 can withstand more damage than the 190, the inline DB engine especially vs the BMW 801. Its the case when you use any kind of mg or cannon not only the 37mm. 

 

However, since last week's update it seems that I have more success damaging inline engines, which is cool. The double wasp radial engine catches on fire way too easily though, the P-47 thunderburnt is a mess right now.

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I think I will chalk up my early thoughts to being new with it and bad shooting. I have been practicing a lot more with it. At first, I was thinking that I was doing better when I was using the green skins instead of the grey skins I was normally using but then I figured out it was just because I was practicing more and getting better hits. On bombers it isn't a one hit kill most of the time but sometimes it is. I think that is believable.

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All tests i did are in SP and how AP works i would not even bather to use it, i never had PK from behined, only when doing head ons, and if not head ons it takes crazy amount of ammo even compared to HE 37mm that its not worth taking AP paylod in air vs air. Yak-9 has 20 rounds less of 20mm and 20 less of 12,7 compared to Yak-1B so aditional reason for not taking it if Yak-1B is available on server.

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Beautiful plane. I always like to fly the 109 for the feeling. But the Yak 9 is a strong rival. 

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I gave it a go with the 100% AP loadout for ground pounding. Was able to destroy panzer IV and panzer 38t.

 

Can be a reasonable option for ground pounding when it comes to vehicles.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2020 at 9:02 AM, mincer said:

Yak-9T's gun is a disappointment. Single engine planes eat multiple 37mm rounds. Stuka on average requires at least 3 hits before going down. Yesterday at CB I got a hit from 37mm while flying a Fw-190D9. The only effect I noticed was cracking of the canopy.

It only takes one round to render a FW or 109 to the point the pilot cant DF in it. Either plan so damage they/we are running home or you get a PK. . Hell, I got hit in JU88 cockpit with round from a Yak9T and it killed all three pilots in cockpit. 

So just because everything isnt blowing up with 1 hit doesnt mean no damage is being done. 

Edited by JG7_RudeRaptor

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12 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 One 109 did a fine soft belly landing after six (!) 37mm HE shells and several 12.7mm hit it on wings, tail and fuselage near cockpit.

 

Those are rookie numbers 😅
 


But yeah netcode goes "oof size: large" sometimes :wacko:
 

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18 hours ago, Birdman said:

I gave it a go with the 100% AP loadout for ground pounding. Was able to destroy panzer IV and panzer 38t.

 

Can be a reasonable option for ground pounding when it comes to vehicles.

 

I agree.  It looks to me that with the low ammo load and different effect of AP and HE, you really have to have a mission planned before takeoff and you really need to stick with it.  

 

If you take AP, then you're ground pounding tanks and hardened vehicles.  If you take HE, then you're still ground pounding soft vehicles and things that will die within the splash damage area, such as AAA and artillery guns.  All HE really gives you is the possibility of warding off fighters if they try to attack you but, you still better have friends to help.   

If you're not ground pounding then the Yak-9 (non-T) is far superior.  I don't think that bomber blasting is even really a good role for the 9T.  Choose your ground target type. Choose the appropriate ammo type. Stick with the mission. 

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I think it might end up being better than the Il-2 for attacking vehicles if the conditions are right. It can't carry as much ammo, but it can travel to and from home base much, much faster, and it's much more likely to escape with its life, so on the whole some well handled 9Ts could be the best choice for convoys

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I think it might end up being better than the Il-2 for attacking vehicles if the conditions are right. It can't carry as much ammo, but it can travel to and from home base much, much faster, and it's much more likely to escape with its life, so on the whole some well handled 9Ts could be the best choice for convoys

 

 More ammo in Il-2 doesn't always get more job done. The cannons in Il-2 are very far apart and convergence plays a big role. 

Another thing that makes the Yak-9T better than the heavier attackers, against armor is it's performance. It allows you to do endless loops above a tank column and cherry pick whatever you want. Some if the cannon armed attackers overheat much faster and takes a lot of time to setup the next attack run.

     And when you have only AP in your 37mm gun, You are not completely naked against other fighters. You can run them down.

Edited by Jaws2002

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Even with AP you are not toothless against fighters. The Berezin is still the most dangerous machine gun around, and a 37mm shell through the pilot or engine is a good way to politely, yet firmly, tell Hans to leave

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On 5/25/2020 at 11:32 AM, Livai said:

Really? - The NS-37 is a one shot one kill weapon. A single shot will blow away the whole wing from every fighter plane.

 

Sure, but to do that you must hit the wing in the first place and only if you hit it with an HE round.

 

My own personal experience so far with the NS-37 in the sim offline has been mixed;

 

HE against Fw-190A5:

1st hit blew off his rear starboard horizontal stabilizer and elevator, knocking him out of control into a spin that lost him some height till the AI pilot recover it and started to climb. At that point I dropped onto him and with the 2nd round blew his starboard wing off.

 

AP against Fw-190A5:

Lost count of how many hits on both wings and fuselage. He was still flying for some time and even looked like he was still interested in a scrap, but eventually went down.

 

Often 1 HE round causes a flamer, usually from the engine area.

 

As mentioned elsewhere, the 109's tail & the He-111 appear to be made of Krupptonite™ at least when you hit them with HE rounds from the NS-37.

 

I'm still having fun testing, so have no solid results and therefore no solid conclusion.

==========================

 

The real NS-37 HE rounds were fragmentation/incendiary as were the NS-45 HE rounds.

 

My limited understanding of how that was intended to work is that over and above the pure explosive blast provided by the HE, shrapnel was intended to rupture any fuel tanks/lines in it's path allowing fuel to meet the incendiary component of the round causing a catastrophic fire.

 

Logically in real life if this all functioned as intended one round in the central area of a fighter should be enough to end it. If your increase the diameter to 45mm as they did with the NS-45, then the probability of success is far greater. Had the NS-37 been a consistent 1 hit 1 kill weapon, I would ask why bother developing the NS-45?

 

===================

 

How that's translated into the simulator is a complex story with many variables to tweak for a realistic facsimile. Expecting that be absolutely spot on across all aircraft and weapon combinations after such a major damage model rework first time out is optimistic at best. Stuff is almost sure to need tweaking. So I think we need to give some time for the dust to settle.

 

So far from what I've read I think the NS-37 HE should take between 1 and 3 hits to knock out just about any aircraft it met in combat at that time and more often 1 or 2 than 3. I would expect the NS-45 to do that with 1 round, with a 2nd round being required only in the most abnormal circumstances.

Edited by Pict

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Here is a demo of what a piss-poor pilot can do with stupid enemies and a Yak-9T using HE ammo.   First kill went very well and seemed to get a PK first time.   Second kill took two hits to make the 190 crash. I am not sure if I wounded the pilot or cut vital control cables as he looked to be alive but unable to compensate for a missing aileron.   Third target I again wasted shots being impatient and going for shots below the nose but once I calmed down and waited for a good gun solution he was made unflightworthy with two shots (and one that missed).

 

 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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I did a test first with yak 9 T vs fw 190

then Yak 9t against 109 G 14

then opposite. 
then did the same with LA 5FN

 

Altitude 2000 meters down to deck

 

with the russian airplanes I spent same amount of ammo shooting down both types due to ai well fly in circles but I found it much easier to overtake the A8

(this is consistent with german and Soviet reports.)

with the A8 with 30 mm with my limited dogfight skills I had major trouble and managed to limp home with only two kills

with G 14 I was king and put all to rest 

flew 4 against 8 with unlimited ammo and 30 mm on  axis planes and HE on russian

 

maybe not a good test, but I learned that flying A 8 against yak and la 5 bring more fighter training into qmb missions. 
Never felt that much in trouble before in qmb

 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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huge disappointment.

Only in straight speed is advantage but in every other aspects it is far behind competitive enemy.

 

Elevator roll out - too tough and BF109F4,G2 outturns you.

Engine weak in horizont turns and easily overheats.

Flaps  - you cannot use their help in fast moments, bcs when you have high speed, the open just litlle. 

Also I cannot notice much better turning with that flaps, even in fully open.

Armament: The lowest amount of ammo ever. Even I16 has more bullets. So you have ammo for 1, maximum two planes in sortie.

Braking off. You have no option how to brake your plane down in fast way. It just holds speed and holds and even if you wanna land, it still flies and flies 😄

37 cannon is less effectively than you would expect. K4 itmakes just cosmetics dirty when you shoot all of your 37 ammo on it. F4 depends on where you hit. But as I said prepare to be disappointed.

 

Advantages? - yes rear-visibility is very useful (irony) 😄

 

Conclusion: After a week in the cockpit of 9T, This plane is hard to fly. Hard to manage sharp and fast maneuvers, hard to shoot and hit, plane behaves like wobling up and down, and hard to keep straight and firm. In high speeds elevator useless, you must trim. 

 

If the VVS would have just the Yak9 they would loose all the war. Luckily they had Yak3, Lavochkas, and other

 

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1 hour ago, Sky_Angel-0- said:

If the VVS would have just the Yak9 they would loose all the war. Luckily they had Yak3, Lavochkas, and other

 

It's almost as if I was saying for a couple months already this was going to be an early Yak-9, very similar to Yak-1B,  and not a 1944 Yak-9U or something 🤷‍♂️  People get hyped without knowing about the planes they seemingly like.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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4 hours ago, Sky_Angel-0- said:

So you have ammo for 1, maximum two planes in sortie.

 

 

 You can shoot down three fighters with the 12.7mm Berezin alone.

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3 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

 You can shoot down three fighters with the 12.7mm Berezin alone.

With the 9T I only tap the trigger long enough for one cannon she'll to go off (and however many mg rounds go off in that time). This is great for conserving ammo and making sure you're really lined up on target before possibly wasting a round. I've actually found when shooting at ground targets that they often explode before a second trigger tap gets to the target. 

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One or two at most ... my first thought is what's wrong with that?  My second thought is that you have 30 37mm rounds.  Pretty sure that is enough to bring down more than one or two.

 

These planes are modeled as what they were and not for online air quake gaming.  Expecting as a Russian pilot to bag more than one or two per mission is not realistic.  In real life Russian command would be delighted if their pilots consistently came back with one victory.  In real life the Russians were taking to the air at this point with significant numerical advantages.  They didn't need multiple kills from their pilots.  One would do quite nicely.  Fly like a real Yak pilot.  Go up, try to get your one, come home.

 

In real life breaking off probably would have been difficult for Russian pilots in most of their crates.  Again, this is where real life numbers help.  If you have a bunch of your friends around it's the other guy that has to worry about breaking off and not you.  I understand that online is probably not like that but if you fly Russian than IMHO you're obliged to understand the plane in the context in which it really existed.  

 

OTOH I do agree with some of the criticism.  In a tiny amount of time I really don't like the handling characteristics.  Probably because I am not good with all of the manual engine and trim management.  Somebody better than me could no doubt get more our of it.  It felt sluggish in roll and acceleration, and frequently felt like I had to flog it to obey.  Most of my flying is offline in the 109 and IMHO no comparison.  But I also have maybe 1 hour in the Yak and dozens in the 109, so again, admit that it's not a fair comparison.

 

BTW: in the 109 I feel that I have enough ammo to get one, maybe two, or three on a great day.  It's just that if I get two I'm very happy :) 

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What they lack in speed, they make up for in looks.

 

I mean, that's just a damn good lookin' airplane. Now my Favorite Russian bird ahead of the I-16.

 

 

 

2048354473_IL2BOS192.thumb.jpg.66783c42e93c9dcc330ef94a21751eb0.jpg

2078378073_IL2BOS193.thumb.jpg.fbafdeaf8c0187ad6a66e930d00396c5.jpg

Edited by CUJO_1970
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On 5/20/2020 at 1:25 PM, MattS said:

So, what do you think about the Yak-9?

 

So far the one thing I have noticed is that the elevator trim seems much more effective? Handles nicely overall.

 

In terms of shooting, I suck just as bad with this one as I did with the Yak-1/Yak-7. 🤣

 

I did a double-take when I saw the default gunsight...thankful to have the reflector option!

But do you get that option with Yak 9T?

 

I want to fly a winged artillery piece, but using head tracking, I can't be doing with a ring and bead sight! It's why I am avoiding Flying Circus and never took to Rise of Flight

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Watched this video yesterday.

Granted, it's a Yak-9U and it's using a different engine (Allison V-1710).

But that's not the point.

The Yak-9U is close enough to the Yak-9T so this one fits more or less.

 

What I wanna say is that watching the loops performed here at relatively high speed (particularly on the downswing), I can't help myself but to think that in IL-2 I'd run into the ground with a blackout when I attempt to do the same.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

 

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2 hours ago, Reggie_Mental said:

But do you get that option with Yak 9T?

 

I want to fly a winged artillery piece, but using head tracking, I can't be doing with a ring and bead sight! It's why I am avoiding Flying Circus and never took to Rise of Flight

 

Yes, the Yak-9T let's you choose either a reflector sight or a ring-and-bead sight (the latter IRL was only fitted to the prototype and removed because it was rubbish). It also has a useful ammunition counter for the 37 mm so you can see how many rounds you have left.

 

The 37 mm is devastating against big targets. I find the low muzzle velocity does not go well with my limited deflection shooting skills so nailing an evading 109 takes a bit of work.

 

Overall, a nice aircraft and very different from anything else we have in the game.

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3 hours ago, Atomic_Spaniel said:

 

The 37 mm is devastating against big targets. I find the low muzzle velocity does not go well with my limited deflection shooting skills

 

 

Maybe you lead too much ;) because the NS-37 muzzle is even higher than the 12.7mm UB. (However shells have a bit higher drop over distance it seems)

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7 hours ago, Reggie_Mental said:

But do you get that option with Yak 9T?

 

I want to fly a winged artillery piece, but using head tracking, I can't be doing with a ring and bead sight! It's why I am avoiding Flying Circus and never took to Rise of Flight

 

As Atomic Spaniel already said, yes you get the good gunsight as an option with the -9T. I tried playing the ring sight with TrackIR and yeah it was rough LOL.

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On 5/28/2020 at 12:27 AM, Sky_Angel-0- said:

huge disappointment.

Only in straight speed is advantage but in every other aspects it is far behind competitive enemy.

 

Elevator roll out - too tough and BF109F4,G2 outturns you.

Engine weak in horizont turns and easily overheats.

Flaps  - you cannot use their help in fast moments, bcs when you have high speed, the open just litlle. 

Also I cannot notice much better turning with that flaps, even in fully open.

Armament: The lowest amount of ammo ever. Even I16 has more bullets. So you have ammo for 1, maximum two planes in sortie.

Braking off. You have no option how to brake your plane down in fast way. It just holds speed and holds and even if you wanna land, it still flies and flies 😄

37 cannon is less effectively than you would expect. K4 itmakes just cosmetics dirty when you shoot all of your 37 ammo on it. F4 depends on where you hit. But as I said prepare to be disappointed.

 

Advantages? - yes rear-visibility is very useful (irony) 😄

 

Conclusion: After a week in the cockpit of 9T, This plane is hard to fly. Hard to manage sharp and fast maneuvers, hard to shoot and hit, plane behaves like wobling up and down, and hard to keep straight and firm. In high speeds elevator useless, you must trim. 

 

If the VVS would have just the Yak9 they would loose all the war. Luckily they had Yak3, Lavochkas, and other

 

Sorry to say it but much of this is a load of crap. I can fly with oil rad closed while climbing in a turnfight with a 109. 
if it start to heat I open it about half And it cools fast. 
If you manage the radiators it can follow 

a 109 pretty good. About the ammo , it can shoot down a plane or two online if careful

in qmb I get six down. You are doing something wrong. It is you not the plane

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1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Sorry to say it but much of this is a load of crap. I can fly with oil rad closed while climbing in a turnfight with a 109. 
if it start to heat I open it about half And it cools fast. 
If you manage the radiators it can follow 

a 109 pretty good. About the ammo , it can shoot down a plane or two online if careful

in qmb I get six down. You are doing something wrong. It is you not the plane

Agreed. Sounds like [virtual] pilot error to me too.

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3 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Maybe you lead too much ;) because the NS-37 muzzle is even higher than the 12.7mm UB. (However shells have a bit higher drop over distance it seems)

Yes this is true, I tend to lead too much. 

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11 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Watched this video yesterday.

Granted, it's a Yak-9U and it's using a different engine (Allison V-1710).

But that's not the point.

The Yak-9U is close enough to the Yak-9T so this one fits more or less.

 

What I wanna say is that watching the loops performed here at relatively high speed (particularly on the downswing), I can't help myself but to think that in IL-2 I'd run into the ground with a blackout when I attempt to do the same.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

 

 

At the 2:35 mark in that video, is the announcer saying that this Yak-9 is powered by an Allison engine? Also mentions the Lightning?

 

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14 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

At the 2:35 mark in that video, is the announcer saying that this Yak-9 is powered by an Allison engine? Also mentions the Lightning?

 

 

The Yaks that are out there flying right now are all using non-original engines, since Klimovs in running condition are practically unheard of.

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30 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The Yaks that are out there flying right now are all using non-original engines, since Klimovs in running condition are practically unheard of.

Correct me if I am wrong.  But I read the first flying restored IL 2 that went to USA in fact had a klimov with it that ran. But they use allison due to serviceability. 
I think getting a Klimov powered ac airworthy might be the problem
 

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12 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

is the announcer saying that this Yak-9 is powered by an Allison engine?

 

Isn't that exactly what I wrote?

 

On 5/30/2020 at 7:46 AM, SAS_Storebror said:

t's a Yak-9U and it's using a different engine (Allison V-1710).

 

:drinks:

Mike

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7 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

Isn't that exactly what I wrote?

 

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

Bigod, you're right, I'm guilty of just skimming your post and going right for the video -  it being the bright shiny object that captures the immediate attention of my simple primate brain...

 

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How are your feelings when Yak-9 is on the receiving end of the German 20mm? Shooting couple of them seems to indicate that they are more robust compared to Yak-1/b. Would make sense to due metal vs. wooden longerons. Maybe somebody already did some testing... 

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34 minutes ago, Mephisto said:

How are your feelings when Yak-9 is on the receiving end of the German 20mm? Shooting couple of them seems to indicate that they are more robust compared to Yak-1/b. Would make sense to due metal vs. wooden longerons. Maybe somebody already did some testing... 

 

I have not tested but my feeling is that the Yak-9 and Yak-1B are essentially the same in terms of the types of damage they can sustain. A few 20mm hits will, most of the time, make for a very bad day. There may be a slight difference but I would hesitate to suggest there was much difference.

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