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MattS

Yak-9 First Impressions?

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I've done a few more missions in qmb. It's a great ground pounder even without bombs! 

 

Ju88s are far more easy for me to destroy quickly than He111s. I don't know if He111s have been toughened in any recent updates? 

 

If you come up under a Ju88 and hit it in the belly with the 37, it is very likely to blow up right in front of you. I set them on fire easily when hitting wing fuel tanks. B25s lose tail parts and go out of control or catch on fire or explode.

 

111s just take a few hits and then limp home. I have to chase them down and unload into them to finish them off. 

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He 111 I take down with one shot in wingroot. Catch fire with he rounds 

I am a bomber pilot by hart. But I accept believable events like that. 
Seeing a fire in my plane and jump is far better than total annihilation after a hit with 30 mm on my p. 38 before. 
They done a great job on both dm and projectile, acceptable for me as a receiver and for the giver

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Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

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After the first online sortie with the 9T : doesn't seem to turn as well as the 9, but the canon is killer, it took an average of 2 hits to kill 109 or 190.

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The AP rounds are deceptive.  They punch through so cleanly that you can shoot a troop truck right through front bumper to back bumper and besides the little grey impact puff, not think you damaged it. In reality it is destroyed.  

 

2 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

The HE round that hit right behind the canopy on that 109 should have been a PK and a big hole behind the pilot's seat.  The AP hits might be pretty accurately modelled effect though.  Shooting through an elevator with a round that blows through that cleanly wouldn't cause that much damage.   If it was straight 6 right to the engine block, I could see it instantly stopping the engine or even exploding it.  

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2 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

What aircraft has a gun that shoots 0.050" projectiles? I assume you're talking about the 12.7mm machine guns on the Russian aircraft?

 

Would like to see a test done comparing the other planes that have a big iron as well; Hs129 with Mk101/103 included. I've hit planes with 5+ rounds, even with a mixed belt of HE/AP and still had them fly.

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24 minutes ago, II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson said:

What aircraft has a gun that shoots 0.050" projectiles?

You've spotted a typo so I'll declare you my personal hero of the day.

 

25 minutes ago, II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson said:

Would like to see a test done comparing the other planes that have a big iron as well; Hs129 with Mk101/103 included.

Did that in 4.005d (online, just for reference):

 

:drinks:

Mike

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Posted (edited)

Messing around with the 37mm AP rounds in QMB, I've noticed that there is a chance of the bullet shattering on impact.  It throws a lot of sparks which could be mistaken for a HE hit when using mixed loadout.

Also, they'll bring a locomotive to a stop but, not always explode the boiler - even if the boiler is hit.   I could see the bullet hole venting steam after I hit it.  That, in and of itself, could eventually lead to a catastrophic boiler failure if the engineer didn't throw open the safety valves to depressurize the whole system but, for the purpose of seeing a pretty explosion, I had to hit it a few more times.  

 

I also took a few shots at AI 109s. The best hit I got was at a G6's 6:30. The shot went in around the area of his left side tail insignia and went straight into the pilot.  The 109 went down without much debris flying off or any sort of discernable damage, besides that 1 hit.  It was rather unceremonious, yet very believable from my view. 

 

A different 109 I hit twice flew with a fuel leak for quite some time, otherwise unaffected.  I got into a few high-G turns with him and his wing suddenly folded.  The damage I did to his controls was none because I didn't hit them so, it was believable that he'd fly mostly fine until the structural failure happened.  

 

 

I haven't tried a full HE loadout yet but, I don't expect it to behave like a lot of people may want it to.   I foresee a lot of skin damage from surface explosions and occasional penetrations that explode inside the target plane.  I don't foresee locomotives taking the kind of damage with juicy explosions we've all come to know and love without multiple (more than AP) hits from HE rounds.  Required accuracy for hitting things like AAA guns and trucks is probably a bit more forgiving though as there is a little bit of focused splash damage close to the impact point. 

 

But, then again, maybe what my expectations are for "feasible" or "believable" are don't match the reality. 

 

Either way, I'm somewhat enjoying the "Mah new pwn musheen doesn't pwn hard enough, like my expectations demand" crowd lose their sh=t over the 9T's 37mm.  

 

Edited by 69th_Mobile_BBQ
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1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

You've spotted a typo so I'll declare you my personal hero of the day.

 

Did that in 4.005d (online, just for reference):

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

Just trying to clarify, because a lot of folks casually throw around the term "fitty cal" when talking about guns that are not .50BMG, such as the Mg131 and Russian 12.7. Yes, yes, I know 12.7mm = 50 calibers, but they weren't called that. Let's get technical about these things as lovers of this aeronautical history.

34 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Messing around with the 37mm AP rounds in QMB, I've noticed that there is a chance of the bullet shattering on impact.  It throws a lot of sparks which could be mistaken for a HE hit when using mixed loadout.

Also, they'll bring a locomotive to a stop but, not always explode the boiler - even if the boiler is hit.   I could see the bullet hole venting steam after I hit it.  That, in and of itself, could eventually lead to a catastrophic boiler failure if the engineer didn't throw open the safety valves to depressurize the whole system but, for the purpose of seeing a pretty explosion, I had to hit it a few more times.  

 

I also took a few shots at AI 109s. The best hit I got was at a G6's 6:30. The shot went in around the area of his left side tail insignia and went straight into the pilot.  The 109 went down without much debris flying off or any sort of discernable damage, besides that 1 hit.  It was rather unceremonious, yet very believable from my view. 

 

A different 109 I hit twice flew with a fuel leak for quite some time, otherwise unaffected.  I got into a few high-G turns with him and his wing suddenly folded.  The damage I did to his controls was none because I didn't hit them so, it was believable that he'd fly mostly fine until the structural failure happened.  

 

 

I haven't tried a full HE loadout yet but, I don't expect it to behave like a lot of people may want it to.   I foresee a lot of skin damage from surface explosions and occasional penetrations that explode inside the target plane.  I don't foresee locomotives taking the kind of damage with juicy explosions we've all come to know and love without multiple (more than AP) hits from HE rounds.  Required accuracy for hitting things like AAA guns and trucks is probably a bit more forgiving though as there is a little bit of focused splash damage close to the impact point. 

 

But, then again, maybe what my expectations are for "feasible" or "believable" are don't match the reality. 

 

Either way, I'm somewhat enjoying the "Mah new pwn musheen doesn't pwn hard enough, like my expectations demand" crowd lose their sh=t over the 9T's 37mm.  

 

 

I love how they implemented the possibility for a hardened projectile to shatter. It doesn't take much for tungsten carbide to shatter. I just now dropped some on the concrete from shoulder height and it broke into several pieces. 

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8 minutes ago, II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

 

I love how they implemented the possibility for a hardened projectile to shatter. It doesn't take much for tungsten carbide to shatter. I just now dropped some on the concrete from shoulder height and it broke into several pieces. 

 

Still, reviewing Sheriff's video,  That elevator breakage on the 109's tail should have reduced control responsiveness at the very least and that HE hit just behind the canopy should have been a killer.  I don't know how much it would have hampered overall stability to lose an elevator like that, but it would seem to me that control response and ability to sustain elevator loading like can be seen should have been well-reduced.  

 

That said, I agree that the detail(s) the devs put into the game, such as the AP rounds, are awesome!  It does give me hope that other things that are issues have a higher likelihood of being at least reviewed compared to how some other dev teams behave with their product.  

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Are you having spikes on your stick?

I am confused, I find it a very good weapon platform. You need to try it one more time. 
are you using twist stick for rudder? Anything that make it a little different

You have misunderstood me.
My controls are OK, but for me as a collector plane - I do not like that much the overall performance of Yak9 and Yak9T, not while maneuvering it or shooting through its aim. But maybe I am judging it too early, I will give it another try.

Edited by Zeev

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2020 at 2:49 PM, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Do not agree at all. I have not flown 1B much. But Yak 9 was referred to as best among Yak’s when it came by its pilots. 
If not propaganda and state authority has influenced the docu’s and books I put my trust in that. I like it , well worth the money. 
yak 1 cannot blow a JU 52 to pieces in two shells

 

As long the Yak-9 has the same Engine and Horse Power same as the Yak-1, Yak-1B, Yak-7B is the Yak-9 just another Yak where I don't feel any difference in FM. As example the jump from La-5F to La-5FN was huge.

 

On 5/21/2020 at 4:53 PM, sevenless said:

 

From the external view they looked like siamese twins. Except for the 2nd UB gun on the 7B, what were the differences between Yak 9s1 and late Yak 7B ?

 

 

Unbenannt.jpg

 

From outside they look the same - That's why I wanted the Yak-7B "Late". I have a lot more from 2x UBs than from changes done in internal structure what I don't see or feel in FM compared to more Horse Power or more fire power.

 

Edited by Livai
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Posted (edited)

I personally did not want a fighter at all I rather take a DB 3/ IL4 than another fighter. 
If I really had to get a fighter I rather get the 9T because of the cannon

So why on earth even bring up what you want and do not get. You fighter lovers are handed over plenty of toys. We all knew what was coming, focusing on what did not is something pampered fighter jockeys 
absolutely should not do, your handed goodies from left to right. 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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8 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

Last few days i spend planty of time in QM in Yak-9T just shooting 37 HE at 109s and 190s. AI was always turning so most hits are when enemy have G on it also.

If hits on 109s were in engine/pilot area or wing tips, it was always 1 hit and done (fire on engine, pilot kia or wing loss), sometimes if wings were hit it took 2, but more offten it was 1 hit no mather where it hit on wing.

But big problem is if hits are in area behined pilot, anwhere in tail section, there its never 1 hit and done, it takes usealy 3 sometimes and up to 5 hits.

I dont understand how tail section dont get weakend by 1x30 or 37 HE hit so atleast G forces just rips it after it get hit, Ai just like in video continues to control airplane like nothing happend when hits land in tail section. Also how rudder or elevator controls can servive direct 30 or 37 HE hits in them is mistery to me.

I tryed all 109 types and 190s as target, 190s take more damage as expected, most 1 hits were when i hit engine area on them and some would be wing hits (still dot understand how 190 wing brakes at root in this game it should be strongest there and not brake like that).

I also tryed 30 HE in 109s on same 109s and 190s targets, and had same resoults like with Yak-9T 37HE ( 30HE is dealing more damage then this 37HE when i test it on bigger airplanes that can take more damage like 111).

I used aim asist, 1 shot at time, and would even slow down time 1/2 to make sure i hit what i wont to hit, to me something is off with how tail section absorb bullets, its not guns falt its DM of airplanes in tail sections if gun is broken resoults i get with 30HE would be differant.

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8 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

This happens on Multiplayer with every gun because the Net code. Nothing to do with Dm is completelly different Isue. If you want to test Dm you should go to Sp.

That is why I think yak9t is not going to be good online. Gun with slow rate of fire, bad shell velocity, low ammo you are not going to be able to hit planes with 4 shots like you can do with Mk108 for example. 

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8 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

This happens on Multiplayer with every gun because the Net code. Nothing to do with Dm is completelly different Isue. If you want to test Dm you should go to Sp.

That is why I think yak9t is not going to be good online. Gun with slow rate of fire, bad shell velocity, low ammo you are not going to be able to hit planes with 4 shots like you can do with Mk108 for example. 

But who are guys having problems with DM and recording videos , its mostly MP guys, so improvments to DM that come without fixing net will not stop people showing problems with how DM works in game as to players playing SP if DM was from 5 years ago, 2 years ago, or this now, or one that may come in 3 years from now, its all same DM is great no mather what changes. DM problems are usealy shown and complained about by MP players as there it is where it mathers, and without net fixes it aint gona get any better no mather what they do to DM.

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9 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

I'm not sure what's what, but I did pop a dozen rounds into an He-111 before it went down.

 

But locomotives are shredded by this thing with just a few rounds. It's good fun.

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5 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Either way, I'm somewhat enjoying the "Mah new pwn musheen doesn't pwn hard enough, like my expectations demand" crowd lose their sh=t over the 9T's 37mm.

 

Thanks for the respect.

After having been told that a little tree branch could obliterate the 37 shell's impulse and not having plain accepted such, I probably belong to that crowd in your opinion too?

 

I rather suspect that it's much more about the usual personal preference what's being discussed here.

 

When the 262 came up, lufties were all over the place about the lack of speed and lack of destruction of the 108s.

And allies tried to explain to them how all this was just the way it's supposed to be.

 

Allies keep complaining about P-47 flight model and now about the lack of 37's AP power, and guess what?

Lufties try to explain to them how all this was just the way it's supposed to be.

 

If anything is really boring about the ongoing debates and - partly, sadly - belittling coming along with them to "support" the arguments, is bias.

That's what I could really do without in future.

Thanks.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

The HE round that hit right behind the canopy on that 109 should have been a PK and a big hole behind the pilot's seat. 

 

This forum has seen dozens of photos and videos showing people surviving hits that looked like they should be catastrophic, and that was before the Yak-9 was released,  There are also videos showing planes exploding from collisions when they seemed to miss each other in the video and vice-versa,   What you see is not always what the server saw.   

 

Here is one of my own examples of a hit from a Yak-1b.  He kept fighting with no apparent damage or injury  after this.  It is just graphics.

 

114609_original.jpg

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Pict said:

 

Says the guy who's input to the debate was, "Have you ever stood beside a WWII plane? Its huge compared to 3.7cm. Certainly don't see a 90% chance, no offense intended."

 

If you like hard data so much, how about putting some on the table, instead of that hollow stuff above? 

 

 

It's simple, I don't and I don't deem it very important as I was merely pointing out perspectives here: Firstly it depends on the kind of projectile, AP or HE, for AP especially I don't see how it could be a one shot weapon as some claim, as it is diametral on what is hit and how, you can punch clean holes through stuff without necessarily decreasing its ability to function properly. (Human body aside here probably) For HE this issue is somewhat different but it still largely depends on where the round hits and how and then it depends on what qualifies as kill - is that an engine failure after some time or is that partial loss of control that leads to abandonment of a propbably still somewhat airworthy aircraft or is it only complete loss of control/ airframe breakup? There are so many variables, that I simply find statements about abilities not very useful. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I do not think that the 37 should not cause catastrophic damage, but I think the whole issue is very complex and that I do find the 37mm to perform quite adequate, especially in relation to the other weapons in the sim. 

 

PS: I say that as someone who finds the 9T to be his favorite new plane :P

Edited by 216th_Jordan

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I'm not an online guy all my flying and shooting is in SP.

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This may have nothing to do with anything, but as far as damage modeling goes, this is something I noticed a long time ago. Some weapons will take a big chunk out of a locomotive, like dinosaur took a bite. (Pic below.) And other weapons will not. They leave the locomotive whole.

 

The 30mm MK103 on the Flying Window will take a bite, but the 37mm on the IL2 and the Yak-9T, even after a serious blasting with AP and HE, will not. Don't know if anyone else gets this. Is this also something happening with the planes maybe, in how damage appears or affects the plane?

Train.jpg

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2 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

This happens on Multiplayer with every gun because the Net code. Nothing to do with Dm is completelly different Isue. If you want to test Dm you should go to Sp.

That is why I think yak9t is not going to be good online. Gun with slow rate of fire, bad shell velocity, low ammo you are not going to be able to hit planes with 4 shots like you can do with Mk108 for example. 

 

You can get a similar effect on 109s in SP. Sometimes they get lucky and will just absorb cannon shots to the rear all day. The tail on that family is so much more durable than any other single engine fighter, even post-patch

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1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

This may have nothing to do with anything, but as far as damage modeling goes, this is something I noticed a long time ago. Some weapons will take a big chunk out of a locomotive, like dinosaur took a bite. (Pic below.) And other weapons will not. They leave the locomotive whole.

 

The 30mm MK103 on the Flying Window will take a bite, but the 37mm on the IL2 and the Yak-9T, even after a serious blasting with AP and HE, will not. Don't know if anyone else gets this. Is this also something happening with the planes maybe, in how damage appears or affects the plane?

Train.jpg

 

Just a guess, is that a russian locomotive? The destroyed object might be modelled differently on russian and german locomotives.

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28 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Just a guess, is that a russian locomotive? The destroyed object might be modelled differently on russian and german locomotives.

 

 

Just checked some more and you bagged it. A 30mm spanking will do it as well a bunch of 20mm, from several planes, as long as they're German guns. Even a ton of Russian 37mm won't do it with any plane.

 

That was some good guessing. :drinks:

 

I thought it was ammo specific, not anything to do with nationality. Interesting. I wonder if this happens with planes as well, where one side does not show the same level damage as the other no matter what.

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5 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

Thanks for the respect.

 

1). After having been told that a little tree branch could obliterate the 37 shell's impulse and not having plain accepted such, I probably belong to that crowd in your opinion too?

 

2). I rather suspect that it's much more about the usual personal preference what's being discussed here.

 

When the 262 came up, lufties were all over the place about the lack of speed and lack of destruction of the 108s.

And allies tried to explain to them how all this was just the way it's supposed to be.

 

Allies keep complaining about P-47 flight model and now about the lack of 37's AP power, and guess what?

Lufties try to explain to them how all this was just the way it's supposed to be.

 

If anything is really boring about the ongoing debates and - partly, sadly - belittling coming along with them to "support" the arguments, is bias.

That's what I could really do without in future.

Thanks.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

1).  I have worked as a ground assistant for an emergency tree removal service in my local area - aka. the guy who stacks the logs, gasses-up the chainsaws and feeds the wood chipper while the other guy is roped-off 100 feet up the tree cutting limbs).

I can tell you that a 3" radius branch of a soft wood like white pine is perfectly capable of deflecting or diverting the flight path of a 37mm AP shell - especially if the tree is healthy and the pine's sap is cold. If the individual bullet was already prone to shattering defects, then yes it is quite possible a tree branch could shatter it.   

Don't believe me?  Go drag 12-16 foot-long 3-5 inch radius whole tree branches into a wood chipper for 8 hours at a time for a 2-4 day lasting job.  

 

Queue Monty Python. 

 

2). Secondly, the Yak-9s are currently my favorite fighter planes.  My point of view is that the 37mm may, in fact, be modelled correctly.

Seeing the crowd that was expecting to get a "109's go pop with lotsa confetti every time" gun up in arms for not getting that does give me a bit of jollies.  Sorry, not sorry.  

 

It also gives me hope that the Devs are actually trying to be as non-biasedly accurate about it all, in spite of some things not working out accurately (here's looking at you P-51 engine and other things).  

 

5 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

This forum has seen dozens of photos and videos showing people surviving hits that looked like they should be catastrophic, and that was before the Yak-9 was released,  There are also videos showing planes exploding from collisions when they seemed to miss each other in the video and vice-versa,   What you see is not always what the server saw.   

 

   

Which is why I do think that Single Player testing is the only 100% valid testing for damage model.  I know it was multiplayer, so I should have said "in a single player environment these shots should have been killers".   

 

We all know that Multiplayer is wonky as f==k.  While I do believe there may be some things the Devs can do to improve the netcode, everything beyond their control on the interwebs will still on occasion, be wonky as f==k.  

 

I still stand by my point that the 109 in the video maintaining that level of control responsiveness and ability to hold sustained elevator loading while having the right elevator control surface blown off is just plain wrong.  

4 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

This may have nothing to do with anything, but as far as damage modeling goes, this is something I noticed a long time ago. Some weapons will take a big chunk out of a locomotive, like dinosaur took a bite. (Pic below.) And other weapons will not. They leave the locomotive whole.

 

The 30mm MK103 on the Flying Window will take a bite, but the 37mm on the IL2 and the Yak-9T, even after a serious blasting with AP and HE, will not. Don't know if anyone else gets this. Is this also something happening with the planes maybe, in how damage appears or affects the plane?

Train.jpg

 

The 37mm AP has a very clean punch-through. A boiler hit that doesn't cause instant failure should create an appropriate-sized steam vent that could lead to further metallurgical failure at the damage point if the boiler isn't quickly depressurized via the safety valve system. 

The HE round does have explosive power, but it appears to explode on contact instead of penetrating first - at least a lot more than gaining penetration, then exploding.

 

Neither case should be able to rip large sections out of a train boiler.  In the event of the train taking an instantly-fatal hit then the train's own explosion is the reason for the "dinosaur bite" you see in the "object destroyed" model example you posted. 

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8 hours ago, Livai said:

 

From outside they look the same - That's why I wanted the Yak-7B "Late". I have a lot more from 2x UBs than from changes done in internal structure what I don't see or feel in FM compared to more Horse Power or more fire power.

 

 

I think late Yak-7Bs with bubble canopy got the extra machine gun removed

https://i2.wp.com/ww2-weapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/yak-7-01-px800.jpg

This looks like it has the old style rounded wing so it would be a late Yak-7B, no starboard machine gun fitted.

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16 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

As a side note, can someone explain how a 109 pulls negative G like this with just a single elevator?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

I do not think that the 37 should not cause catastrophic damage, but I think the whole issue is very complex and that I do find the 37mm to perform quite adequate, especially in relation to the other weapons in the sim. 

 

PS: I say that as someone who finds the 9T to be his favorite new plane :P

 

Ultimately I agree with you on all of that, as I never saw the NS-37 as a one shot one kill weapon. I possibly prefer the Yak-9 over the Yak-9T for the moment as it handles so well and I it's armament plenty sufficient to knock up to 4 opponents down before running out of ammo, but the jury is still out on that :) 

 

The NS-45 is another story;

 

I really do think they were not wrong about it's one shot one kill assessment. But getting that one shot on target in an air battle was another thing, as apart from anything else it was deemed unreliable.

 

I think that's still just part of the reason that the Yak-9K was never main stream. They could have ironed out the lack of reliability that was used as the main excuse for discontinuing it, but when they already had the Yak-9T that had no reliability issues to speak of and could do the damage in an average 2 shots, what was the benefit of the one shot (or none shot due to reliability) 9K? They already had plenty of excellent can openers in the shape of the later Il-2's and the Il-10 which was coming on-line at that time, so there was no real need for another heavy can opener.

 

1 hour ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I think late Yak-7Bs with bubble canopy got the extra machine gun removed

 

Not from what I've read.

 

The Yak-9 was initially a long range development version of the Yak-7B with the cut down rear fuselage, aka bubble canopy. And it was initially to be designated Yak-7D.

 

A whole new wing was designed to accommodate more fuel tanks and a part of the process of weight saving to allow for more fuel tanks was the removal of one of the UBS machine guns.

 

===========

 

Not sure yet what you have in the photo, but it could be an early Yak-9 as they were produced simultaneously with the Yak-7B in some factories. It could also be a Yak-1B, but I would need to check before I'd commit to either. 

 

Edit, wrong wings for a 9, I'd go with a 1B.

Edited by Pict
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1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

The 37mm AP has a very clean punch-through. A boiler hit that doesn't cause instant failure should create an appropriate-sized steam vent that could lead to further metallurgical failure at the damage point if the boiler isn't quickly depressurized via the safety valve system. 

The HE round does have explosive power, but it appears to explode on contact instead of penetrating first - at least a lot more than gaining penetration, then exploding.

 

Neither case should be able to rip large sections out of a train boiler.  In the event of the train taking an instantly-fatal hit then the train's own explosion is the reason for the "dinosaur bite" you see in the "object destroyed" model example you posted. 

 

That's possible, but it seems to be only Russian trains that show that level of damage, whether by 20mm, 30mm, or 37mm cannon fired by German planes.

 

Russian cannon do not make the German trains exhibit that level of damage, even if you pound them with many hits of HE and/or AP. And we're talking about the same model train on the same position of tracks in the QMB.

 

I think, as 216th_Jordan pointed out, it's just damage modeling unique to the Russian train.

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Just now, CanadaOne said:

 

I think, as 216th_Jordan pointed out, it's just damage modeling unique to the Russian train.

 

That does make sense also.  

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Drifting back to the original topic:   

 

My impression is that the Yak-9 is the fighter / interceptor.  The 9T is the ground attacker (or a Pict put it, "can opener") and sneak-attacker vs. enemy planes.

 

Regardless, a higher max dive speed limit before structural failure is a boost for the competitiveness of the Yaks vs. German planes in general.  

 

Also, how about that low-level handling on the 9T (hey! hey!).  The thing is literally the pinnacle of last moment tree avoidance.  Need a ground target sniped from an extremely odd angle because it's protected by terrain or forest?  The 9T is definitely your boi !!! 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

There is a Vengaboys-song about the Yak-9T.

 

It's called Boom-Boom-Boom-Boom.

 

That'd go well with the above (and now below)often linked 4 hit Sheriff video...as would sh**e-s*ite-shi**-*hite I want you in my sight when the 109 forced an overshoot an tagged him :) 

 

 

17 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Just watching Sheriffs video and 4 solid 37mm hits, one at point-blank range, plus a handful of .050 rounds thrown in for good measure - axis aircraft keeps on flying.....and someone flies in and kill-steals it.......I can certainly see how that would be frustrating!

 

Yak-9T marshmallow 37mm ammunition

 

So I guess ppl can argue about it all they want - the above vid shows the facts, the current DM doesn't seem quite right.

 

The above video doesn't show what the ammo belting was. So can you fill us in on that missing fact?

 

If it was mixed AP/HE, then 3 of the 4 hits could easily have been AP rounds and that would paint a very different picture to the one you take as fact.

Edited by Pict

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

Not sure yet what you have in the photo, but it could be an early Yak-9 as they were produced simultaneously with the Yak-7B in some factories. It could also be a Yak-1B, but I would need to check before I'd commit to either. 

 

Edit, wrong wings for a 9, I'd go with a 1B.


It couldn't be a Yak-1B though because it has main landing gear wheel covers and the different type of oil radiator shutters used in the Yak-7/9 planes

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I'm pretty sure it's a late Yak-7B ^^

 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I'm sure it's a late Yak-7B

 

If it is a Yak-7B then it's pretty odd, as even the Yak-7-37 still had the 2 UBS machine guns.

 

Like I said above, the machine gun delete in the Yak-7 came about with the 7D aka Yak-9 development, at least from everything I've read so far. Someone else may know better.

Edited by Pict

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

The above video doesn't show what the ammo belting was. So can you fill us in on that missing fact?

 

If it was mixed AP/HE, then 3 of the 4 hits could easily have been AP rounds and that would paint a very different picture to the one you take as fact.

 

It looks mixed to me.  I can't tell the type from 3 of the shots, but behind the canopy was definitely HE.    

 

Shot 1:  Breaks off right elevator.  

Shot 2:  Appears to enter behind the tail wheel and (if the animation was 100% true-to-life) pass right out the bottom  of the tail section about a meter forward of said tail wheel.  Nothing vital there to hit.  Would certainly not cause a tail section separation.  

Shot 3: HE behind the canopy. - severe concussion injury to the pilot if not a PK

Shot 4: Appears to pass though the top of the wing and through the under-wing radiator.  If it was AP, the hole would put the radiator system on borrowed time but, not be an instant failure.   

Edited by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

It looks mixed to me.

 

That's what I thought.

 

The other factor that everyone appears to have missed is that the 109 may not have survived any length of time, had it not been nailed by the other Yak. Therefore any one of those hits could have downed it, given some time.

 

The assumption is that just because the 109 never went down immediately for whatever reason, that it would survive 4 hits period. So 4 hits with what and would it have survived or not are the questions that come up for me.

 

Only way to test this as you already mentioned is offline SP as that's how it has been developed and tested. Any tests need to show what the ammo belting is and leave the "kill" enough time to "die" if that's what it is expected to do. 1 hit, 2 hits, 3 hits and so on in an organised repeatable fashion, each time recorded and given a reasonable time to see results if any.

 

Anything else is just speculation.

Edited by Pict

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58 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Drifting back to the original topic:   

 

My impression is that the Yak-9 is the fighter / interceptor.  The 9T is the ground attacker (or a Pict put it, "can opener") and sneak-attacker vs. enemy planes.

 

 

Didn't mean to take things OT, was pursuing the 37mm damage question and how the Yat-9T played out.

 

I'm enjoying making high speed A2G sniper shots in the -9T. It's good fun.

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