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SCG_Neun

Latest Update...game changer?

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Posted (edited)

If this works....it's a game changer and many thanks to Devs.  I'm not sure if #76,  just applies to vehicles and AT is not included or what, but I've got my fingers crossed.

 

 

 

76. Ground vehicle AIs can't spot targets through a dense enough forest (if at least 50m of the line of sight to a target travels through the forest area);
77. Field guns (AT and divisional ones) can fire at a maximum distance when given the Attack Area -> Ground command in the mission;
78. Aiming tables for several AA guns have been corrected;

 

 

 

Edited by SCG_Neun
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Very keen to hear if it makes a big difference! :) 

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I'm just super stoked for the 1 vs 1 and 12 vs 12 tank battles on QMB, just like with the airplanes.

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I tried some QMB fights.

 

With my first round I knocked out Panther with T34/76 with hit to the front turret from 1000m 😀 probably lucky shot.

My other tanks are not fighting when I select more AI tanks in QMB. They move to some place and after that just turn their sides or back to the enemy.

 

With the Panther I cant set to fire or explode enemy T34 from the front. It usually takes 4 or more hits.

When Im in T34, enemy Pather tank can set me on fire or explode me from the front with every hit.

 

Anyway its good to have this new QMB for tanks.

 

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Posted (edited)

Panther and Tiger easily get killed from 1000m front from any tank. Just took 2 hits from M4A2 from 1200m. Tried several conditions with Panthers and Tigers. Tanks damage model seems to be broken. Can some please confirm. Also seems to be no difference whether ace or rookie. AI hits everytime.

Edited by JG27_Steini
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Posted (edited)

I'm very, very, very disappointed.😐

For for me the game is still in the early stages of development.

The tank damage model is unrealistic.

Edited by EAF51_Triple1
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Posted (edited)

I hope you guys report these findings in the thread for the update in the hope that they will take notice and fix it.  

Edited by inexus

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Hello everyone, since the update, the graduations for the piercing shell of panther have disappeared ... is it me, or is it a general problem?

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9 hours ago, BP_Lizard said:

I'm just super stoked for the 1 vs 1 and 12 vs 12 tank battles on QMB, just like with the airplanes.

 

It will be great when they mix that with the planes, so you can choose the type of plane you want to go against the type of tank you want.

 

If we can set up a flight of IL2s against a dozen Tigers in the QMB, that will be a nice step forward.

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soo.... what are you guys thinking of the AI after the latest patch? Any improvements?

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I'm still downloading....really slow for me for some reason, and I did a clean install on my server so that's taking some additional time.  Once I get the server up and running I can test out some things this week on the line of site issues.  But the fact that they are addressing some of these issues is really a good sign in my opinion.  

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Wow...just jumped in a tank mission and it's beautiful......really impressive.

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I used to play PANZER ELITE till my eyes bled, so for me at this early stage of playing TC it's truly eye candy. I am new to TC so my rose colored glasses may fall off in a short time and I can more objective about the game.  Love what the modders and skinners are doing , you guys are great so thanks to all of you ! I am enjoying the game but do see the flaws as pointed out by others. I will try to be patient in the mean time.  Game On Tankers!!!😁

 

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Hi everyone,

 

i just played online.

 

The controls are a way better than before, now it's possible to turn right/left without getting crazy.

Maybe it was just my impression, but the ground textures looks improved.

 

About the AI. I killed tanks on the roads when I was hiding in the trees. They didn't spotted me...so it "seems" to work but i need to test again tomorrow.

 

Cheers 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Audax82 said:

About the AI. I killed tanks on the roads when I was hiding in the trees. They didn't spotted me...so it "seems" to work but i need to test again tomorrow.

 

Either the AI is dumb or it truly works... I kind of doubt it's the latter unfortunately ;) 

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i try it several times, and it looks work... IA can spotted you in bush, but with more time, you destroy many of them before they see you... ambush tactic is now effective!

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Huh! in QMB enemy main squad can see you through the hills and are always facing you if you tried to outflank them.🙄

So if you move slightly to the left and stay there your second squad which is controlled by AI easily outflank them and shot them in their sides.

 

I even tried to hide behind the trees, but it didnt help.

They are moving exactly to my spot, behind the hills and trees. (and meantime they are outflanked by my second squad and quickly destroyed).

 

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2 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

Huh! in QMB enemy main squad can see you through the hills and are always facing you if you tried to outflank them.🙄

So if you move slightly to the left and stay there your second squad which is controlled by AI easily outflank them and shot them in their sides.

 

I even tried to hide behind the trees, but it didnt help.

They are moving exactly to my spot, behind the hills and trees. (and meantime they are outflanked by my second squad and quickly destroyed).

 

 

Salutations,

 

Are the enemy vehicles 'firing' through the woods?

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I don't know if this is existing or a new 'feature' but when enabling autopilot the tank will just drive straight through trees. if you disable the autopilot and try to drive through the same tree you will hit a rock! ... 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Thad said:

 

Salutations,

 

Are the enemy vehicles 'firing' through the woods?

I dont have opportunity to see this, i just checked with the free camera, that enemy is always facing me, even when im moving behind trees and hills. There were destroyd from the flank every time by my second squad. I will try today alone just with my squad.

3 hours ago, inexus said:

I don't know if this is existing or a new 'feature' but when enabling autopilot the tank will just drive straight through trees. if you disable the autopilot and try to drive through the same tree you will hit a rock! ... 

Its old, ai cant navigate through the forest and probably between houses. Thats why we cant select spawn point in the vilage to defend it. Ai will be unable to avoid houses while entering the village.

Edited by Voidhunger

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1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

Its old, ai cant navigate through the forest and probably between houses. Thats why we cant select spawn point in the vilage to defend it. Ai will be unable to avoid houses while entering the village.

 

probably or properly?  So AI will drive through houses as well? 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, inexus said:

 

probably or properly?  So AI will drive through houses as well? 

Yes, just tested it. I tried to cover behind buildings and my squad run through the buildings.

And its still impossible to order my tanks to face the enemy with the front armor.

That stand exposed to enemy with side or back.

I was also hit when i was covered by small house. Probably there is some limitations like in clouds and trees, that the whole house cant cover you.

 

Also tested my previous observation that the enemy can stalk you when you are hidden by the hills. They are focused only at you all the time

I left my squad in the village and tried to outflank enemy by the canyon and trees, and you can clearly see that the enemy changed direction , eventhough i was moving behind houses, trees and entered the canyon.

 

 

 

 

tank1.jpg

tank2.jpg

tank3.jpg

The AI is really bad for tanks right now.

Edited by Voidhunger
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bonjour tous le monde... depuis la dernière mise à jour, le viseur de mon panther semble buggé... les graduations de l'obus perçant ont disparu et le réticule est étrange... j'ai bon retélégharger les fichiers sur Steam et désactiver les mods, rien ne change... quelqu'un à le même probléme, je n'ai rien trouvé sur les forums ?

2020_5_22__10_31_32.jpg.338a14a20798905701593161c9454d24.jpg

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Hello Freaks,

 

for me the game and the performance is getting better and better! When you stand in the tank tower, you literally wait to hear the rustling of the grass and perceive the scent - just amazing!
The game gets more and more into the phase where it is addicting an old tank man!
When the Ferdinand appears - Thanks to the developers! I think if the testers and "founders" are then listened to, nothing can go wrong!

 

Thanks and good luck !

 

Guenther :dance:

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Hello Freaks,

but as the saying goes: where there is a lot of light - there is also shadow ! =


With the new update, at least the "nice" cannon smoke seems to have been left on the track after the shot!
Please correct this error - thank you!

 

Furthermore, the negative directional angle of the tiger cannon still seems to me to be incorrect (too small) and that would be nice if the tiger commander looked out a little deeper with the hatch open.

 

Good luck !

 

Guenther;)

 

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Hello Freaks,

 

Another negative point found is the immediate missions.
I myself can not find any grading in the classification of hostile abilities in the "quick missions". Even a "newcomer" shoots as quickly and accurately as an "ace" at the highest level.

 

Good luck !

 

Guenther;)

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Posted (edited)

It seems like the best place to follow updates is on the Russian forum and follow Han. There he talks a bit about the AI being able to see through clouds and they are trying to limit TC AI to see through the trees. 

 

Update: just realized the Russian forum is completely separate; So Han has one profile here in the English/International forum and a different one for Russians... 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/13413-250-я-часть-дневников-разработчика/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-773660

 

Copying the google translate of what @Han said: 

 

Bots should not see through the clouds. True, in the AI cloud visibility model, of course, they have a simplified form. 

 

In the ground technique in 4.006 we hope to manage to add a limitation of visibility through arrays of trees. 

 

Fighters in 4.006 will be returned to the dependence of the accuracy of guidance on skill. 

 

About visibility at medium distances. 

 

It is possible that the problem of "merging with the background" at short distances will become less acute with the release of Deferred Shading - because the introduction of this technology eliminates the use of simplified surface materials for aircraft at LOD levels, which led to a complete shutdown of the reflection of heaven and earth (and the acquisition of full " haze ") by plane already at a small distance from the observer. 

 

But how much this solves the issue and whether this is the reason or only one of the reasons - only practice will show. 

 

All research and changes in this direction are extremely complex and costly in terms of time, therefore, they cannot be quick. 

Edited by inexus

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Posted (edited)

I messed around quickly on the line of site testing...and from what I very tentatively looked at, I believe the line of site issues have been improved.  My internet is taking forever to upload a couple of quick videos...but I should have them up so you can observe a quick demonstration....

I had two Russian AT guns and one tank on the other side of a fairly open woods, to test the new line of sight corrections within the game. Seems like the AT gun crews were not very alert, even though I had them set to the highest level within the AI settings. The tank fired on my tank in a very accurate manner and I found this to be an improvement. Although the AT guns did not fire as soon as they should have the fact that they did not fire on unseen targets or through the woods showed a marked improvement. Of course this is just one instance and who knows overall how things will go, but it does look like a step in the right direction.  We will know more with time...

 

 

 

Edited by SCG_Neun
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That looks very promising. The developers are obviously attempting to address tactical issues in TC. 😃

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Posted (edited)

 

3 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

I messed around quickly on the line of site testing...and from what I very tentatively looked at, I believe the line of site issues have been improved.  My internet is taking forever to upload a couple of quick videos...but I should have them up so you can observe a quick demonstration....

I had two Russian AT guns and one tank on the other side of a fairly open woods, to test the new line of sight corrections within the game. Seems like the AT gun crews were not very alert, even though I had them set to the highest level within the AI settings. The tank fired on my tank in a very accurate manner and I found this to be an improvement. Although the AT guns did not fire as soon as they should have the fact that they did not fire on unseen targets or through the woods showed a marked improvement. Of course this is just one instance and who knows overall how things will go, but it does look like a step in the right direction.  We will know more with time...

 

 

 

 

It actually seemed like they didn't notice you at all even though you were right next to the them. It would have been interesting to see if you kept driving towards them to see (if) at which point they would detect you. 

 

I wonder when you fired at the tank whether it was still alive since it showed no reaction at all. 

Edited by inexus
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It didn’t show the one AT rotating their gun on me and I took that one out first, but the others were oblivious to my presence.  I think it’s a work in progress balancing AI alertness, accuracy and line of site.  But the good thing I saw was that tank on the first video holding it’s fire until it had a 50 meter line of sight through the trees.  
 

If the guns hold fire on the other side of the forest, it’s a start.

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You can hide behind the block of trees. Its like with the clouds.

I think you have to be more in the middle of such block.

In one occasion I was very close to the panther tank with my t34 and the enemy AI didnt didnt react at all.

It would be very nice to have some sort of independent AI. (try to retreat, if the crew is wounded, try to divide squads to outflank you from both sides. Or just some of them waiting, some advance to you etc.)

Right now they will stalk you if you are behind hills. They are facing you all the time and at some point they will stop just waiting. (amd thats same for your 2nd, 3rd squad.)

When I command my mates in the squad to change formation when Im not moving, they only move a little.

Its impossible to order them to move to exact spot, without clickable mouse icon.

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Posted (edited)

I can't speak for single player, but I do know that any auto mission generator could most likely never factor AI placement to avoid line of sight issues the way we've had occur in the past.  When you build missions manually, you can place things in ways that can overcome a lot of these issues.  I think we are looking at baby steps here and tank AI will come with some more time.  Right now, ai tanks can even maneuver magically through the forests, so I guess flanking maneuvers should be possible.  I never thought they just morphed through there, but I found that out today.

 

I've seen improvements though were ai tanks are not randomly firing into the hillside before they can clear terrain features for a realistic shot, but having complex maneuvering isn't going to be anything like an air combat ai can perform with nothing in the way but clouds.

 

It's easy for me to do some more testing and see.  I really hope we are moving forward on this issue.  I know what you are talking about though with the sporadic ai alertness.  I think tweaking with the ai is also going to interfere with what we've come to expect from past settings, as well.  We have a big mission coming up on Sunday and I will be able to get a better feel for the game.  

Edited by SCG_Neun
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Salutations,

 

It appears that we can anticipate step by step minor improvements in Tank Crew AI. 🧐

 

Any such improvement is a good thing for us armor jockeys. 

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Posted (edited)

This video shows the los from the lead German tank position, as soon as he clears the majority of the trees., which was as posted around 50m...he fires on the tank.  Then again....and then the next in line fires on a position once he enters a line of sight area.  The other back tanks hold their fire.  As far as what ai is more alert or not, I believe an ai on a waypoint might have an advantage on those stationary AT positions.  But I thought the German tanks did an excellent job of moving on those positions and clearing them and then reforming again.  The AT position just below the ridge towards the end did not fire, as it did not have a line of sight on the tanks in the field.  All in all, I have to say that this is a big difference from what I've seen in the past.  I've had AT shoot through forests and ridge lines in the past from hundreds of meters away...

 

 

Edited by SCG_Neun
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Hi All, latest patch is a great update still some work to do but now getting to the real tank sim experience, very impressed and now have tank v tank custom battles which I love playing. keep it up IC!

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With two hotfixes out now, there still seem to be no reaction to the issues raised in this thread... 

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31 minutes ago, inexus said:

With two hotfixes out now, there still seem to be no reaction to the issues raised in this thread... 

It will  take a while to see some improvements. look at the DD for difference in content/improvement added to planes and into Tank Crew.

I know they will try to make it better.

Im somewhat sad, because I thought it will be a blast even without proper destructible landscape.

There is unfortunately so much to improve that It will be a long ride.

I desperately need new hardcore WW2 tank sim and Graviteam will probably never do it again.

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1 minute ago, Voidhunger said:

It will  take a while to see some improvements. look at the DD for difference in content/improvement added to planes and into Tank Crew.

I know they will try to make it better.

Im somewhat sad, because I thought it will be a blast even without proper destructible landscape.

There is unfortunately so much to improve that It will be a long ride.

I desperately need new hardcore WW2 tank sim and Graviteam will probably never do it again.

 

Steel fury is quite good. You just need to buy the additional STA upgrade, etc. A bit of work but not too bad. They have a ton of single player missions to use. Also it has infantry, etc. that is missing from TC. 

 

Also, I thought somebody pointed to a set of buildings in the editor that are destructible that can be added to any map? I haven't tried it yet though but maybe check it out if you don't mind making a mission yourself. I hope to get around to it soon to try and add a bunch of buildings and see if it slows down the game as is rumored though I haven't seen anybody actually saying they tried it so far. 

 

I honestly don't understand why there is no response for the issues raised for TC. I give up trying to get the attention now. 

 

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I think that (and maybe Im wrong):

 

Because they are small team working mainly on planes.

The AI guy is learning and is fully buried in aircrafts AI.

Rest of the team is fully occupied by BON.

They probably underestimated what the people want/expected.

The game engine was made for planes and its probably not so easy to make changes/improvements for tanks.

For example damage model for planes was changed multiple times over the years and I dont think they have spare time to do it in TC in near future.

(and there are only a few people on the forum who are trying to give them feedback what they feel is wrong and what they would like to change/improve)

Compare it with hundreds of people in BOX forum(and FC -for example the weak wings which were corrected in some way in a short time).

 

look at the forum, there are guys who are satisfied and praise developers that the game is a blast.

 

 

 

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