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Game version 4.006 discussion: Deferred Shading, Yak-9, SU-152, New Campaigns, 4K for 4 planes

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Been all over it all day. Pimax 5K Plus is knackered until this hotfix is reversed.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, 41Sqn_MADOV said:

Never use the zoom, it's non-authentic as an experience in the cockpit. Never installed the 'cheat' mod that caused much consternation. Had great visual acuity and performance in VR and loved this simulation. Now I find myself grounded due to total breakdown in HMD of image. Come on Devs, pull that  finger out !

 

I am with you there. I will not run mods, but also I am just a single player guy.

I do very much appreciate the new zoom, but I am sure like before I will not use it so much.

Will get some good testing in with it in a little bit with my PWCG Campaign.

Edited by dburne

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1 hour ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

This latest hotfix even further improved performance for me, plus new vr zoom without any hickups...everything is soo smooth, even clarity and graphics seems better now....at least i have feeling being that way (rift s, mxssa x2)!

 

Only thing is missing two level zoom (old+new one)!

Sorry to hear others have problems, as seen so far i'm sure devs will fix it, give it few days!

 

Same here.  Game performance, spotting, ID'ing in VR, etc. has never been better.   

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Once more thank You Devs. Thank you for better VR zoom, for better performance and others. All that stuff makes me happy playing in VR. Great job! Now it is time to buy more of your products.   

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2 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Use ddu uninstaller and remove your drivers and install them again (the latest one)

Hi

 Just got back from a hot sweaty day at work,I am unable to look at this forum till I get back home,so I apologize to anyone who has responded.

Yes I did use DDU uninstaller (always do since an issue a few years back...cant trust add or remove programs!).

I always restart pc also,and I checked integrity of files in steam...........still had the issue.

However Wanderfalke has suggested a possible solution to my woes by re-installing the game.

  Obviously this is a last ditch remedy,but I will try it ( the games worth it).

 He has had similar fun & games to me ,so I will report back with hopefully good news........Thanks for your ideas though.

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4 hours ago, SCG_Rudis said:

I understand matching the FOV to 2D and VR makes sense on paper, but it is simply not comparable when using zoom to identify targets. The pixel density at this zoom range gives a clear advantage to 2D players when identifying aircraft. The VR zoom needs to be further

 

I think the new zoom is a million times better than previously. Part of the reason we had all this mess was users on the forum making a stink one way or the other. If you increase the VR zoom much further, people aren't going to be able to hold their head still enough to make an ID. Can we please just be happy with the current level?

 

3 hours ago, blitze said:

Whilst 2D users have greater pixel density VR users here are failing to take into account that unless the 2D player is playing on a 55 Inch TV - at default FOV of the game prior to 4.006d, the scale of image advantage was to VR users.  That is, VR users at default FOV (Zoom or un-zoomed in normal view mode in the headset) had the image size advantage over 2D users.  At 55 Inches on a 1080p TV - the pixel density for the image would actually be similar to what VR users have in their headsets.

 

From what I have read with VR user comments it would seem that the issue was not with magnification / FOV but with image clarity of their devices.  This is an easy trap to fall into with VR as the industry is very callas with giving native displayed resolution information to its users as opposed to 2D monitor manufacturers.

 

This is an area where trying to do calculations is mostly pointless. The question to ask is "is the VR zoom/ID capability roughly the same as what monitor users get?" and that's something you can only answer by trying the two side by side.

 

My view is that this new zoom gives approximate parity between monitor and VR users. It's certainly close enough that VR users would not feel the need to use a third party mod to increase their zoom. That was the whole point of this entire thing, wasn't it? We're there! Job done! Success! Maybe some slight tweaks like the ability to use a lesser zoom on a different keybind, and there's a convergence/IPD issue on some headsets. But the core issue -- zoom parity between VR and monitor -- has been solved.

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The core issue  for you may have been solved. The sim platform has been rendered  unplayable for me. Different folks, different strokes.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

My view is that this new zoom gives approximate parity between monitor and VR users. It's certainly close enough that VR users would not feel the need to use a third party mod to increase their zoom. That was the whole point of this entire thing, wasn't it? We're there! Job done! Success! Maybe some slight tweaks like the ability to use a lesser zoom on a different keybind, and there's a convergence/IPD issue on some headsets. But the core issue -- zoom parity between VR and monitor -- has been solved.

 

That is good for you but for myself and others - default  - non zoomed view is now fish bowled.

 

Also as a played in 2D previously with head tracking on a 27 Inch monitor - VR was better.

In the last 6 months I have not had issues with instrument reading and the 4.006 pre d release, Id-ing a fighter was good non zoomed to .5km and zoomed 2km.  Multiplay was a different thing as well stated where players would be ghosted and had nothing to do with the view system but more server client relations.

 

There are VR players who didn't feel the need to use a 3rd party zoom mod to play the game and effectively.  There are though a few vocal VR players who insist that the game was unplayable without such mods.  Given my earlier post whereby according to SweViver - I have the weakest viewing VR headset for flight sims and image quality - I find it weird that I can have no issues prior to 4.006d in this regard and yet others with "better" headsets couldn't see Sh1t.

 

Maybe your chase for FPS over image quality and relation to native res - as I have talked about earlier and will not repeat here is more the issue behind not seeing stuff.

 

Oh well, on to flying a Su27.

 

I also find it weird the Devs dumped this "Fix"on the community without beta testing it and getting feedback first.  I know the AMD GPU's have been an issue but most of us have Nvidia due to compatibility of those GPU's to date and so AMD has been more of an outlier GPU system.  I did previously have AMD for 2D flying a couple years ago and it was fine.

Edited by blitze
extra brain fart
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8 minutes ago, blitze said:

 

That is good for you but for myself and others - default  - non zoomed view is now fish bowled.

 

Also as a played in 2D previously with head tracking on a 27 Inch monitor - VR was better.

In the last 6 months I have not had issues with instrument reading and the 4.006 pre d release, Id-ing a fighter was good non zoomed to .5km and zoomed 2km.  Multiplay was a different thing as well stated where players would be ghosted and had nothing to do with the view system but more server client relations.

 

There are VR players who didn't feel the need to use a 3rd party zoom mod to play the game and effectively.  There are though a few vocal VR players who insist that the game was unplayable without such mods.  Given my earlier post whereby according to SweViver - I have the weakest viewing VR headset for flight sims and image quality - I find it weird that I can have no issues prior to 4.006d in this regard and yet others with "better" headsets couldn't see Sh1t.

 

Maybe your chase for FPS over image quality and relation to native res - as I have talked about earlier and will not repeat here is more the issue behind not seeing stuff.

 

Oh well, on to flying a Su27.

 

I also find it weird the Devs dumped this "Fix"on the community without beta testing it and getting feedback first.  I know the AMD GPU's have been an issue but most of us have Nvidia due to compatibility of those GPU's to date and so AMD has been more of an outlier GPU system.  I did previously have AMD for 2D flying a couple years ago and it was fine.

Look how many hotfixes were in this short time!

Do you believe devs will leave it this way, cut out part of the VR userbase.....not in million yeaes i assure you!

It's a matter of days or hours till you'll get hotfix for your problem same as ATI users did.

Problem will be solved in short time, devs prooved it.

Also it's quite normal and expected to have various tweaks and hotfixes after such huge graphic engine update.

And i'm sure more tweaks will follow even when this update gets stable version. 

As you fly dcs you should be more than aware of that!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

My team has busted their ass under really crappy circumstances to fix everything that has not worked to plan in 4.006. Insulting us with crude comments is not going to be tolerated.

 

The team has worked non-stop to try and address any remaining issues including any caused by the VR Zoom change. I urge everyone to relax. Another Hotfix is imminent. We think we have VR working properly on all types of goggles. If not, we'll address again next week. The guys need a break. 

 

You guys put tons of pressure on us to do this and do that etc. As usual we listen and try to find solutions. This process is going to be messy sometimes, especially when my guys are forced to work from their cramped apartments without all their usual gear. Under the circumstances they have done an extremely good job.

 

If you continue to have problems with AMD please post in the threads Daniel has started above.  If you have problems with VR after the next Hotfix I will create a special thread for that too, but we believe it is back to normal. Only difference should be the new level of zoom. 

 

Jason

 

Thank you for your and your team's dedication, Jason! 

 

Everyone here loves your product with great passion! Unfortunately, the very same passion is responsible for the crudeness and crankiness. But the forum etiquette must be upheld at all costs and I agree with it 100%.

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Did this update remove the need for parallel projection with pimax headsets? I have always needed pp to prevent weird cross eyed zooming. 

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Reported issue in technical support thread. Aircraft bright outlining - I can't get rid of it (Nvidia, 2D).

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Posted (edited)

You lead a team of rock stars Jason.  Don't sweat the little stuff.  If some of us need to cool off then some of us need to cool off.  Your team can't work at this pace without challenges.  Not telling you how to do what you do, just sharing an observation from the chirping box.  Burn out is real and I worry a bit.  At the same time you guys set the bar so high sometimes... Meh you get where I'm coming from.

 

Big aside:  To my fellow Pimax users, please try using the small fov setting with parallel projections on for now and report back in the VR forum (nevermind- Jason just reported an inbound hotfix).  This might help the devs track the issue and would help to confirm what some of us are seeing (small fov is fine, med is more zoomed from default, and wide pretty much rests your chin on the control stick).  

 

Oh and if I haven't made it clear, the new zoom itself is a huge improvement.

Edited by JG51_Beazil

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15 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

My team has busted their ass under really crappy circumstances to fix everything that has not worked to plan in 4.006.

Thank you for your hard work an dedication, team.

Most here still just enjoy this great sim.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

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Posted (edited)

Buying more things is the best way to say: Thank you, devs! I hope those who are really agressive do that in the same passionate way when this issue is fixed.

 

I hace faith in the team. I don't have that with other sims anymore. You guys rock.

 

 

Edited by LF_Gallahad

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I wish to thank Jason and the team for the good work and the new VR zoom. It's not as powerful as the mod, but I can certainly live with it.

Everything is working as intended with my Rift S, so maybe I won't have to change my hobby after all 😊

Cheers.

 

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8 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

My team has busted their ass under really crappy circumstances to fix everything that has not worked to plan in 4.006. Insulting us with crude comments is not going to be tolerated.

 

The team has worked non-stop to try and address any remaining issues including any caused by the VR Zoom change. I urge everyone to relax. Another Hotfix is imminent. We think we have VR working properly on all types of goggles. If not, we'll address again next week. The guys need a break. 

 

You guys put tons of pressure on us to do this and do that etc. As usual we listen and try to find solutions. This process is going to be messy sometimes, especially when my guys are forced to work from their cramped apartments without all their usual gear. Under the circumstances they have done an extremely good job.

 

If you continue to have problems with AMD please post in the threads Daniel has started above.  If you have problems with VR after the next Hotfix I will create a special thread for that too, but we believe it is back to normal. Only difference should be the new level of zoom. 

 

Jason

 I have been affected by the AMD issue since the new update has been released, of course I am not a happy bunny since I still have issues (that may be resolved by a reinstall...will see!).

  But I do appreciate working with 2 different GPU driver types(makers),that may conflict,and also VR users and non VR users is a source of major headaches.

 I hope I have reported my issues in a civil & polite manner, but as someone stated, it maybe the love of the game that causes some to get over dramatic....rudeness is un- called for..but dont take too much to heart, as I think most people here are fully behind the game and understand things will get sorted in the end! 

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2 minutes ago, FlyingShark said:

Thank you for your hard work an dedication, team.

Most here still just enjoy this great sim.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

 

Absolutely!

Just the fact they addressed the VR zoom so fast and provided a solution that seems to work for most, as fast as they did, is incredible.

I am sure they will work out the remaining issues that some are having, just give them a little time.

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18 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

My team has busted their ass under really crappy circumstances to fix everything that has not worked to plan in 4.006. Insulting us with crude comments is not going to be tolerated.

 

The team has worked non-stop to try and address any remaining issues including any caused by the VR Zoom change. I urge everyone to relax. Another Hotfix is imminent. We think we have VR working properly on all types of goggles. If not, we'll address again next week. The guys need a break. 

 

You guys put tons of pressure on us to do this and do that etc. As usual we listen and try to find solutions. This process is going to be messy sometimes, especially when my guys are forced to work from their cramped apartments without all their usual gear. Under the circumstances they have done an extremely good job.

 

If you continue to have problems with AMD or VR please post in the threads Daniel has started above. We believe it is back to normal after the next Hotfix. Only difference should be the new level of zoom. 

 

Jason

 

My thanks to the dev team for all the hard work, and indeed for finding solutions to the VR issue. The new zoom is excellent, and I'm confident once the kinks are ironed out this will restore true parity between the 2D and VR base. 

 

I had no issues with the new zoom last night, and it truly is wonderful. I feel like I'm flying on my monitor again, except my neck hurts. It's great! :)

 

Thanks again to the team, this is truly a win for everyone involved, I feel.

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8 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

I had no issues with the new zoom last night, and it truly is wonderful. I feel like I'm flying on my monitor again, except my neck hurts. It's great!

 

You need a cat for that neck pain - their claws are a type of acupuncture or at least distracting from any other pain you might feel. 😊

 

Mine likes to sit / hang off my lap / chest when I am flying in VR.  I can swear she knows when I get shot as I feel immeasurable pain at the right moments.

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High quality team brings high expectations.... 

Take the rude comments as a recognition of the global high quality of your work. I know it seems stupid but most people can't think out of good/bad, black/white. 

The quality level of this simulation is among the highest I've ever seen. We have tons of improvements, we have regular patches, and we have quick hotfixes when there is a problem. I don't usually throw flowers to the team but this time you guys deserve it. So be it. 

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10 minutes ago, SirFlappy said:

  I hope I have reported my issues in a civil & polite manner, but as someone stated, it maybe the love of the game that causes some to get over dramatic....rudeness is un- called for..but dont take too much to heart, as I think most people here are fully behind the game and understand things will get sorted in the end! 

 

For what it's worth Sir Flappy, as far as I can see your responses have been patient, dignified and understanding.  The rest of us unfortunately..........:rolleyes:

 

I can't help remembering - when I see people posting that all is woe and they'll never buy again, etc.- that Han and the Team are working for us often through the night and in their own time to get these things out there.

This seems to be lost on a lot of posters.........

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2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I can't help remembering - when I see people posting that all is woe and they'll never buy again, etc.- that Han and the Team are working for us often through the night and in their own time to get these things out there.

This seems to be lost on a lot of posters.........

 

Yes this I can't understand.  Even though insulted myself and I have had my share of disagreements with fellow flyers - this Dev team is one of the best I have come across under Jason's guidance in software and this is the one product that scratches my childhood itch of flying WW2 planes.

 

Regardless of teething troubles some updates bring - my money is firmly with these guys.👍

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7 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

For what it's worth Sir Flappy, as far as I can see your responses have been patient, dignified and understanding.  The rest of us unfortunately..........:rolleyes:

 

I can't help remembering - when I see people posting that all is woe and they'll never buy again, etc.- that Han and the Team are working for us often through the night and in their own time to get these things out there.

This seems to be lost on a lot of posters.........

I'm sure most of us have at one time or another, been overworked, tired and frustrated. Personally, I don't do my best work under such circumstances. I'd prefer the team be able to step back and get some much needed rest over the weekend. DDs and hotfixes can wait. Any added stress to an already overly stressed world isn't necessary right now.

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10 minutes ago, blitze said:

 

You need a cat for that neck pain - their claws are a type of acupuncture or at least distracting from any other pain you might feel. 😊

 

Mine likes to sit / hang off my lap / chest when I am flying in VR.  I can swear she knows when I get shot as I feel immeasurable pain at the right moments.

Not in VR, but I have had my cat jump onto the back of the head rest of my chair at the precise moment that I was hit by a flak shell. I jumped in my seat, pulled my HOTAS with me as I went, smacked the stick and throttle back onto the desk. This startled the cat who by this point had reached my shoulder and now dug in harder, also startled my wife and our other cat who bolted out of the room (the cat, not the wife).

In VR it would probably just straight up give me a heart attack.
 

Just now, Rjel said:

I'm sure most of us have at one time or another, been overworked, tired and frustrated. Personally, I don't do my best work under such circumstances. I'd prefer the team be able to step back and get some much needed rest over the weekend. DDs and hotfixes can wait. Any added stress to an already overly stressed world isn't necessary right now.


Yes, its impossible not to feel run down when things seem endless and many people are stuck at home. It is a hard time for sure and when you feel the work is not appreciated it is worse.

We are all hungry for content and updates and we want to play our flight sim and forget our problems, but we can't forget that however passionate the team is, it is a job for these guys and it is hard work. Especially locked down, where you don't have proper workspace, don't see your coworkers or friends or family. The fact that the output from the devs is what it is is astounding. I hope they understand their work is appreciated. Even if you don't like the direction things are going or agree with a decision, you absolutely cannot fault their work ethic or their commitment to the project.

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Posted (edited)

I’m away on a trip. How much more does the new vr zoom... zoom?

Edited by sonicapollo

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Posted (edited)

By the way it's AMD Radeon they are no longer ATI. They have AMD and the Radeon technology group. 

Edited by =IL2AU=astrix_au

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Just now, =IL2AU=astrix_au said:

By the way it's AMD Radeon they are no longer ATI. They have AMD and the Radeon technolgy group. 

 

 

Whooa, dude. Too soon! It still hurts for some of us :(

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2020 at 8:07 PM, 1./JG42Nephris said:

A workaround was delivered within hours.

A hotfix was delivered over the weekend

The issue is fixed.

 

So what is the point? It is not like the game didnt start for weeks.

If you reflect to process of your profession, I am pretty sure u will find paralells 😉.

Keeping the perfect world beside.

It was not fixed I tried 4.006b which were curent at the time.

 

This weekend I'll try the latest. 

I'' 

35 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Not in VR, but I have had my cat jump onto the back of the head rest of my chair at the precise moment that I was hit by a flak shell. I jumped in my seat, pulled my HOTAS with me as I went, smacked the stick and throttle back onto the desk. This startled the cat who by this point had reached my shoulder and now dug in harder, also startled my wife and our other cat who bolted out of the room (the cat, not the wife).

In VR it would probably just straight up give me a heart attack.
 


Yes, its impossible not to feel run down when things seem endless and many people are stuck at home. It is a hard time for sure and when you feel the work is not appreciated it is worse.

We are all hungry for content and updates and we want to play our flight sim and forget our problems, but we can't forget that however passionate the team is, it is a job for these guys and it is hard work. Especially locked down, where you don't have proper workspace, don't see your coworkers or friends or family. The fact that the output from the devs is what it is is astounding. I hope they understand their work is appreciated. Even if you don't like the direction things are going or agree with a decision, you absolutely cannot fault their work ethic or their commitment to the project.

Then they should have waited till it's ready. It's anoying when you try and convice others to spend so muich money on IL-2 for others it's a lot might not be for us. But people wanting to try it out are having a hard time justifiying a lot of money to them. Their first experience it a broken release. Better to wait and have it working right.

Edited by =IL2AU=astrix_au

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13 minutes ago, sonicapollo said:

I’m away on a trip. How much more does the new vr zoom... zoom?

 

Feels like more than double what it did before.  If you zoom in on the instrument panel, your view will be filled by an entire gauge only - you can't see more than one of them (just to give you a feel for the extent - not complaining).  I don't know how to explain what that translates to for outside view, but it's like, a lot...

 

38 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Not in VR, but I have had my cat jump onto the back of the head rest of my chair at the precise moment that I was hit by a flak shell. I jumped in my seat, pulled my HOTAS with me as I went, smacked the stick and throttle back onto the desk. This startled the cat who by this point had reached my shoulder and now dug in harder, also startled my wife and our other cat who bolted out of the room (the cat, not the wife).

 

This kind of behavior is exactly why I don't have a cat.

 

Well actually it's because the cat pooped in my headphones.  Don't ask how I found out. 

 

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I saw there was a small update yesterday, hopefully it fixed the blue halo around planes near clouds because when I played Wednesday it was still there.

 

Question to the devs : are you planning to update the german Bodenplatte career because its always the same for everyone....p47 and tempests....no spit, no mustang, no lightning...

 

Keep up the great work.

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2 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

I think the new zoom is a million times better than previously. Part of the reason we had all this mess was users on the forum making a stink one way or the other. If you increase the VR zoom much further, people aren't going to be able to hold their head still enough to make an ID. Can we please just be happy with the current level?

 

 

This is an area where trying to do calculations is mostly pointless. The question to ask is "is the VR zoom/ID capability roughly the same as what monitor users get?" and that's something you can only answer by trying the two side by side.

 

My view is that this new zoom gives approximate parity between monitor and VR users. It's certainly close enough that VR users would not feel the need to use a third party mod to increase their zoom. That was the whole point of this entire thing, wasn't it? We're there! Job done! Success! Maybe some slight tweaks like the ability to use a lesser zoom on a different keybind, and there's a convergence/IPD issue on some headsets. But the core issue -- zoom parity between VR and monitor -- has been solved.

 

Well said, I agree 100%

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5 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Feels like more than double what it did before.  If you zoom in on the instrument panel, your view will be filled by an entire gauge only - you can't see more than one of them (just to give you a feel for the extent - not complaining).  I don't know how to explain what that translates to for outside view, but it's like, a lot...

 

 

This kind of behavior is exactly why I don't have a cat.

 

Well actually it's because the cat pooped in my headphones.  Don't ask how I found out. 

 

That’s pretty sweet. I’d much prefer the new one to the old. Maybe (when bigger problems are handled/no rush) in the future there can be a max zoom option or another button that does “half zoom”. Most certainly, I don’t want this new feature to go away!

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15 minutes ago, =IL2AU=astrix_au said:

 

Then they should have waited till it's ready. It's anoying when you try and convice others to spend so muich money on IL-2 for others it's a lot might not be for us. But people wanting to try it out are having a hard time justifiying a lot of money to them. Their first experience it a broken release. Better to wait and have it working right.

You can wait and test forever and when you release the game out into the wild you will still have bugs. It is not possible to test for all configurations, especially when it comes to VR. For the vast majority of users there was no 'broken' release, it was a problem with drivers/API and now a problem with a small amount of headsets. That's the way it goes, if you want to avoid bugs introduced by hardware and driver mix-ups, you have to game on consoles. 

 

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2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

My team has busted their ass under really crappy circumstances to fix everything that has not worked to plan in 4.006. Insulting us with crude comments is not going to be tolerated.

 

The team has worked non-stop to try and address any remaining issues including any caused by the VR Zoom change. I urge everyone to relax. Another Hotfix is imminent. We think we have VR working properly on all types of goggles. If not, we'll address again next week. The guys need a break. 

 

You guys put tons of pressure on us to do this and do that etc. As usual we listen and try to find solutions. This process is going to be messy sometimes, especially when my guys are forced to work from their cramped apartments without all their usual gear. Under the circumstances they have done an extremely good job.

 

If you continue to have problems with AMD or VR please post in the threads Daniel has started above. We believe it is back to normal after the next Hotfix. Only difference should be the new level of zoom. 

 

Jason

Thank you for your hard work on this sim and keeping the team together, Jason! Everyone else, please be respectful of the dev team and voice your complaints professionally. There is no need to insult them. They work hard for us. This is a great patch, and a lot of work went into it.

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2 hours ago, blitze said:

Oh well, on to flying a Su27.

 

1 hour ago, blitze said:

Regardless of teething troubles some updates bring - my money is firmly with these guys.👍

 

Great to see your unwavering support for the dev team.

  • Haha 4

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3 minutes ago, SirFlappy said:

Bad news I am afraid ,...

Thanks for your post.  I hope this will help them track it.  Looks like a shader issue (again, I'm a know nothing here).  Sorry you volunteered yourself for the guinea pig role here, but thanks for taking the "bullet".  S!

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13 minutes ago, SirFlappy said:

Bad news I am afraid ,I did a complete reinstall of the game &   -

 - with old 19.10.1  driver (RX480 8gb card) same problems as old screenshots.

- Very latest 20.5.1 driver (comlpete un install of old driver with DDU) same problems ,

     screenshot of re-installed game on very latest AMD drivers below.

 I will include screen of my settings also( these settings have given me smooth gameplay for years).......I tried grass on & off no difference..still buggy

PS the top screen is with grass ON!

 

Flappy please post in this thread OK. Keep it in the right place please.

 

 

Jason

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