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Developer Diary 251 - Discussion

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Quick question regarding the Yak-9T on the shop: Will it release on Steam at the same time as it does in the online shop? 

 

I can't quite buy it right now on the shop since my bank is sending a confirmation code to a dead number. Going to the bank to clear it up is a bit risky for me due to asthma, so I'm curious if the 9T will be available on Steam since transactions there complete without issue. 

 

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask; I really want the thing :) 

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9 hours ago, Han said:

 

Update 4.006 will be released soon...

 

Before Whitsun or even before Ascension day? Can´t wait 🙂

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2 minutes ago, MattS said:

My two cents after thinking more about it: I think this will be a good change that rewards people who put the effort into learning their machines.

 

Hopefully there is a new server created for those people.

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Server admins will make the choice in the end. Probably not much will change but those who feel strongly about regulating it will be able to do so. I personally don’t think it gives much advantage in a fight so just give people the option. I fly without technochat these days and I don’t watch my engine instruments closely in a dogfight, except for occasional glances at temps. Never blown an engine in combat yet, only once when I flew for a long time with my radiators fully closed. 

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7 hours ago, SAG said:

I'm extremely happy about tecnochat!!! 😄 but PLEASE PLEASE consider to leave messages (or maybe voice messages?) to tell us what the bomb drop modes are in planes like the A-20 that dont have such an indicator in the pilots view

I like your ideas for a voice confirmation to tell you what your bomb settings are. That would make it similar to how tanks function.

 

I think moving forward for both tanks and planes, I would like to see dedicated keybindings for weapon configurations instead of toggling through the various settings.

Example for planes:

[LCtrl+1] Single bomb drop

[LCtrl+2] Pair bomb drop

[LCtrl+3] Four bomb drop

[LCtrl+4] All bomb drop

[LAlt+1] 0.05s drop interval

[LAlt+2] 0.010s drop interval

[LAlt+3] 0.25s drop interval

[LAlt+4] 0.50s drop interval

 

Example for tanks:

[LCtrl+1] Load APHE

[LCtrl+2] Load HE

[LCtrl+3] Load HEAT

[LCtrl+4] Load APsolid or Composite Rigid

 

btw I'm not saying that [LCtrl,Alt+#] should be the default bindings; just an example

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ACG_Vietkong said:

Talon (CB admin) said they most probably will leave Techno chat on. Can´t speak for the other two. I even doubt Taw will enable it , at least not initially.

TAW will surely turn off technochat if it will not collide with other messages like report of enemy attack on targets.

Edited by =LG=Coldmanovich
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1 hour ago, =SqSq=Civilprotection said:

I like your ideas for a voice confirmation to tell you what your bomb settings are. That would make it similar to how tanks function.

 

I think moving forward for both tanks and planes, I would like to see dedicated keybindings for weapon configurations instead of toggling through the various settings.

Example for planes:

[LCtrl+1] Single bomb drop

[LCtrl+2] Pair bomb drop

[LCtrl+3] Four bomb drop

[LCtrl+4] All bomb drop

[LAlt+1] 0.05s drop interval

[LAlt+2] 0.010s drop interval

[LAlt+3] 0.25s drop interval

[LAlt+4] 0.50s drop interval

 

Example for tanks:

[LCtrl+1] Load APHE

[LCtrl+2] Load HE

[LCtrl+3] Load HEAT

[LCtrl+4] Load APsolid or Composite Rigid

 

btw I'm not saying that [LCtrl,Alt+#] should be the default bindings; just an example

You can add

- Fuse on

- Fuse off

- Right engine feathering

- Left engine feathering

 

There must be other ones.

 

 

Instead of thechnochat, i would prefer that the number of players who take off from an airfield are not displayed on the map. It would have been more usefull.

 

Fighters are happy, but bombers not. We were not so many, for me, it's a bad news. 😕

 

With that option off, many players couldn't complain anymore to be shot down, and maybe, they will see that the problem was not the technochat, but their pilot skills. But i'm sure, they will find another excuse.

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The Yak looks beautiful! Cant wait! 

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8 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

I have mixed feelings about the GPS map though because some barren areas are extremely hard to navigate without it, but I suppose that may be part of the fun for some people, especially those flying bomber missions.

Not sure where this is coming from. Disabling GPS has been an option for years and many people are lying on servers without it. Basically every server on realistic difficulty.

 

regarding technochat. Guess it’s time to finally animate the bomb control

box in the German fighter xD so we can see if the bomb fuse is on or not, maybe we can’t switch in air between delayed and non delayed. The option is right there in the control box :)

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9 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

You could check in the bombsight. But I agree some fine tuning might be good.

 

Using the bombsight is good enough for planes that have it. But for example Spitfire IX doesn't have the fusing switch or bomb switches modeled in the cockpit. So you don't know if fuses are on/off.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Habu said:

.

 

 

Instead of thechnochat, i would prefer that the number of players who take off from an airfield are not displayed on the map. It would have been more usefull.

 

Fighters are happy, but bombers not. We were not so many, for me, it's a bad news. 😕

Totally agree, this is a good idea..

It's easier predict what's going on the map knowing number of airplane that took off from an AF...

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The Yak looks wonderful. Can see the difference in the pics, the reflections, (including the water surface), and the detail.

Images appear much better especially on the right side of both captures. Thank you team/s, all improvements are a welcomed step forward.

Love it! :) :good::thank_you::salute:

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Posted (edited)

If technochat is disabled then please give me the option of deleting the MG81 hiding the boost and RPM gages in my Ju88!

or get this invisible box off my head that prevents me from looking around it.

:salute:

skud

Edited by ATAG_SKUD
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

I think deactivating the technochat can be unrealistic.  While I'm ok with eliminating the power/prop settings %s, I think that the trim notifications, and many other messages that signal positive confirmation of pilot inputs provide feedback that the real aircraft would to the pilot, that we lack in sim.  Further, critical messages - like engine overheat - tell us things that a pilot would be getting visceral feedback on.  Engine noise, vibration, peripheral vision, hell maybe even cockpit temperature, etc...  all combine to tell you your engine has an issue.  It isn't as cut and dried as 'keep your eyes on your instruments and be conservative.'  I think that providing players with just enough easy to ingest info to fly their planes realistically while maintaining as much eyes outside cockpit time as possible is a good compromise, well integrated, and vital to the sim.  I suspect that plenty of hard-core grogs will love the lack of techno chat, and they will laugh and scoff at the less proficient who lawn dart their planes.  But it will form just another barrier to entry into multiplayer for the newb, and actually detract from the overall realism of the sim.  I hope that some of the multiplayer server managers will agree with me and will take the option to keep this feature.

I totally agree with that.

And I absolutely want to know before joining a server whether technochat is allowed or not.
According to the planes I'm perfectly capable of flying without and with others it's impossible.

May I remind you that most German aircraft have automatic engine management?
No management of the mixture, of the rpm, of the radiators.
Where's the equity in that case?

Edited by CCG_bexhausted
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12 minutes ago, CCG_bexhausted said:

I totally agree with that.

And I absolutely want to know before joining a server whether technochat is allowed or not.
According to the planes I'm perfectly capable of flying without and with others it's impossible.

May I remind you that most German aircraft have automatic engine management?
No management of the mixture, of the rpm, of the radiators.
Where's the equity in that case?

 

Bex, I think that no matter what you say, it's done, we'll always have the pro techno chat and the anti techno chat.
I think it should remain an individual choice and not imposed on a server for everyone, on everything for "equal" reasons. Let's be serious for a moment gentlemen


Flying on an Hs-129 in the middle of a fight, with the management of the propeller pitch sometimes automatic, sometimes manual, with gauges on the side, hardly visible it is a challenge, but hey, what's the point of raising this point, since it obviously satisfies everyone here.

Good flights to all

 

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1 hour ago, CCG_bexhausted said:

...

May I remind you that most German aircraft have automatic engine management?
No management of the mixture, of the rpm, of the radiators.
Where's the equity in that case?

 

I suppose the argument would be that, in reality, the automatic engine management of the German aircraft gave a huge advantage for pilot workload, and maintaining situational awareness - something that was not reflected in the sim because the technochat made it much easier for pilots to manage their manual engines.

 

If the goal for a particular server is to simulate the reality as closely as possible, then things just took a step forwards.

 

If the goal is to allow a balanced, fair fight, then maybe not. But to have real balance where pilot skill is the only variable, we would have to have both sides flying exactly the same aircraft.

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I applaud all this visual improvements, and ship behavior improvements are absolutely welcome and hoped since years. 

I am longing for 4.006 to come.

 

To me in term of maps the Kuban map remains at the moment the best map ever.

It is a pity that we do not have a Kuban Winter map. Will this come in the future?

 

Another point is the sea. Why in Bodenplatte there is no true sea? In Kuban we have lake and sea with different colors and behaviors.

Is the Bodenplatte map going to be improved for what is the sea and will the Normandy map also have a true sea behavior.

Same question for the railway network which is way to basic.

 

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51 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Another point is the sea. Why in Bodenplatte there is no true sea? In Kuban we have lake and sea with different colors and behaviors.

Is the Bodenplatte map going to be improved for what is the sea and will the Normandy map also have a true sea behavior.

The North Sea in the Bodenplatte map does have different colours. The areas closer to shore are a lighter shade than where the water gets deeper.

 

In fact, the real-life North Sea is pretty dull and grey. Take this aerial photograph of Noord-Beveland, and the same area within IL2 (actually, the mission builder. I didn't take the trouble of starting up a mission. IL2 will look somewhat better). To me, it's actually a pretty good match (note that the dam that separates the somewhat darker and bluer Veerse Meer from the North sea didn't exist yet back in the 40s).

 

9620650f9ee4e8c517d7b7095ea05f7f--holland-netherlands.jpgzeeland.jpg.5d7893e68bd07549dcdcc3206c9e7d1e.jpg

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Wow... looking great! Looking forward for the FM/DM adjustments as well!

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I have a simple question will this update affect spotting? If yes up to what distances?

 

Glad we can finally get rid of the technochat and really fly our planes instead of relying on the "crutch" that is this technochat.

It is nice for new players, it is "noob friendly" indeed but some of the old and more hardcore pilots I think deserve some more immersion as well as some more features like a push button on some planes to check how much fuel is left to avoid looking at the dashboard more than is necessary.

This update is one more step in the right direction of making this game a true sim.

Can't wait to see the "JG/Hartmann" wehraboos blowing their engines all day. 😄

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Posted (edited)

So, if technochat is disabled how am i supposed to know my radiator settings if im using just buttons instead of physical levers? Im fine being unable to see my throttle, rpm, trim % and all other stuff (you just need to get used to them like the new damage model, G-forces etc) but those radioators would cause me a headache. Maybe Saitek will notice a spike in their quadrant selling in a few weeks..

Edited by LLv24_Sukka24
typo
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, LLv24_Sukka24 said:

So, if technochat is disabled how am i supposed to know my radiator settings if im using just buttons instead of physical levers? Im fine being unable to see my throttle, rpm, trim % and all other stuff (you just need to get used to them like the new damage model, G-forces etc) but those radioators would cause me a headache. Maybe Saitek will notice a spike in their quadrant selling in a few weeks..

That's true we still need that. I really hope it removes the "combat/emergency" messages and such.

That would only make sense, how can you even tell how much mixture you have or how much the rads are opened? Im not sure if there is always a visual indicator.

If that's the case we might have to count how many times we turn the knob or open the valve., I'm sure this was thought through we'll be fine either way.

Edited by =FEW=Hauggy

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Most planes on either side have some sort of radiator indicators.  You more than likely just have to learn where they are and how to read them.  

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

That's true we still need that. I really hope it removes the "combat/emergency" messages and such.

That would only make sense, how can you even tell how much mixture you have or how much the rads are opened? Im not sure if there is always a visual indicator.

If that's the case we might have to count how many times we turn the knob or open the valve., I'm sure this was thought through we'll be fine either way.

 

You can look at color of the exhaust flame from engines for mixtures, no tech chat guys are experts they dont need any tech chats or helpers ( i guess Tips will also not work or whats the point of just removing tech chats), not all fly axis airplanes. Just wait its clearly think through its clear to understanding demands on what MP comunity need.

 

How can guy in video game playing in airplane that have automatic radiator control have advantage he deserves if there is info about % reads open ? how can he have advantage he buy with some modern hotas vs some guy with basic stick and key controls if there is % of trim and so indicated on screan. Think about them , no tech chat means 0 tech chats messages, its only fair way. Maybe at some point we get rid also from virtual pilots having more then 2 hands, and alow only movment of things that real pilots could move at same time, maybe sometimes that nirvana of full real is achived.

 

 

Edited by CountZero

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12 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Most planes on either side have some sort of radiator indicators.  You more than likely just have to learn where they are and how to read them.  

 

True, but not all. Real pilots didn't need to watch their radiator levers, they felt how much they had them open. Just like i don't have to watch when i change gear while driving car, i can feel what gear i have and what gear i'm changing into. People with everything mapped into axes won't have problems adjusting to this change, but people like me who has only throttle and rpm mapped on axes will have hard times ahead. It leads people to stare at the cockpit levers, which leads to less situational awareness, and which leads to more deaths.

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2 hours ago, MattS said:

 

(though it does increase my respect for guys like Kermit Weeks LOL).


Kermit Weeks isn’t flying in combat and his aircraft aren’t limited by engines that explode when an imaginary timer reaches an imaginary limit.

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17 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

That's basically the whole point in my eyes for removing the techchat, no longer will people just jam the throttle and see 89% and know they are safe, you will have to actually read the gauges and make a judgment, which like you said should make people fly a little less on the edge and make everything a little more chaotic. For the longest time the pros just quickly glance and see they are at the limit and good to go, no need to actually check the cockpit at all. There was a massive thread a while back begging for this option, so glad to finally see it getting implemented.


Ya, the only trouble I foresee with this, is that in real life your engine wasn’t a time bomb if you slightly exceeded guidelines in a manual. Also, I can see for users without analog levers for things like the yaks oil and coolant... they won’t really be able to figure out what they have set them to in a realistic or natural way.

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18 minutes ago, LLv24_Sukka24 said:

 

True, but not all. Real pilots didn't need to watch their radiator levers, they felt how much they had them open. Just like i don't have to watch when i change gear while driving car, i can feel what gear i have and what gear i'm changing into. People with everything mapped into axes won't have problems adjusting to this change, but people like me who has only throttle and rpm mapped on axes will have hard times ahead. It leads people to stare at the cockpit levers, which leads to less situational awareness, and which leads to more deaths.

 

I'm not sure how hard it really is,  109 E7 has the indicator out on the right wing for easy reading, the other 109s are auto. You really just need to know that Ata 1.0 or Ata 1.1 is your "can't screw it up" setting.  190s, same.  Except for the A8(?) they're auto or have the indicator right on the dashboard. 2 seconds to scan the whole panel is not a big burden.  

 

For Russian planes, you pay attention to the temperature gauges over what the levers are doing.  If you're getting good performance and the temp gauges are within the acceptable range, then you're good to go.  

 

Seriously, God forbid that a few aces who never look inside the cockpit of their plane drop a few stats places having to do the realistic thing and take a moment to read their dash panel.  

2 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:


Ya, the only trouble I foresee with this, is that in real life your engine wasn’t a time bomb if you slightly exceeded guidelines in a manual. Also, I can see for users without analog levers for things like the yaks oil and coolant... they won’t really be able to figure out what they have set them to in a realistic or natural way.

 

The oil and water coolant wheels are designed so that 1/2 turn = 10% , IIRC.  You just use the "cross" in the center of the wheels to measure it out.  The trim wheel on the left side is set up so 1/2 turn = 20%.   It doesn't matter anyway, you adjust rads by using the temperature gauges, not the position of the wheel/lever.  

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17 minutes ago, MattS said:

 

Regardless, he flies a dizzying array of vintage airplanes - which must be a challenge - so my point still stands.

 

That said, you seem pretty committed to being salty here instead of a cordial fellow to share viewpoints with so I will leave you to that.


since when did “stating facts” come to mean “salty”?

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42 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'm not sure how hard it really is,  109 E7 has the indicator out on the right wing for easy reading, the other 109s are auto. You really just need to know that Ata 1.0 or Ata 1.1 is your "can't screw it up" setting.  190s, same.  Except for the A8(?) they're auto or have the indicator right on the dashboard. 2 seconds to scan the whole panel is not a big burden.  

 

For Russian planes, you pay attention to the temperature gauges over what the levers are doing.  If you're getting good performance and the temp gauges are within the acceptable range, then you're good to go.  

 

Seriously, God forbid that a few aces who never look inside the cockpit of their plane drop a few stats places having to do the realistic thing and take a moment to read their dash panel.  

 

The oil and water coolant wheels are designed so that 1/2 turn = 10% , IIRC.  You just use the "cross" in the center of the wheels to measure it out.  The trim wheel on the left side is set up so 1/2 turn = 20%.   It doesn't matter anyway, you adjust rads by using the temperature gauges, not the position of the wheel/lever.  

 

I get your point and i agree with you, i think this change will be good but i just have to feel those controls in my hands or have some kind of visual indication (technochat) of those controls. I've been looking at the Saitek quadrant for a while now and i guess i should just buy it.

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1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Most planes on either side have some sort of radiator indicators.  You more than likely just have to learn where they are and how to read them.  

 

Yes, but how do you deal with those who don't have one?
I don't fly with those at all anymore?

 

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

 

You can look at color of the exhaust flame from engines for mixtures,

 

 

Very noticeable on the ground. But in flight I break a window to put my head outside? 

 

37 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:


Ya, the only trouble I foresee with this, is that in real life your engine wasn’t a time bomb if you slightly exceeded guidelines in a manual. Also, I can see for users without analog levers for things like the yaks oil and coolant... they won’t really be able to figure out what they have set them to in a realistic or natural way.

 

True. The engine breaks down without any warning signs.

 

35 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'm not sure how hard it really is,  109 E7 has the indicator out on the right wing for easy reading, the other 109s are auto. You really just need to know that Ata 1.0 or Ata 1.1 is your "can't screw it up" setting.  190s, same.  Except for the A8(?) they're auto or have the indicator right on the dashboard. 2 seconds to scan the whole panel is not a big burden.  

 

For Russian planes, you pay attention to the temperature gauges over what the levers are doing.  If you're getting good performance and the temp gauges are within the acceptable range, then you're good to go.  

 

Seriously, God forbid that a few aces who never look inside the cockpit of their plane drop a few stats places having to do the realistic thing and take a moment to read their dash panel.  

 

The oil and water coolant wheels are designed so that 1/2 turn = 10% , IIRC.  You just use the "cross" in the center of the wheels to measure it out.  The trim wheel on the left side is set up so 1/2 turn = 20%.   It doesn't matter anyway, you adjust rads by using the temperature gauges, not the position of the wheel/lever.  

1/2 turn = 10 % are you using the technochat ?

For Russian planes, you pay attention to the temperature gauges over what the levers are doing.  If you're getting good performance and the temp gauges are within the acceptable range, then you're good to go. Really you can do that in combat ?

 

My problem with the deleted technochat is simple: when I come home from work tired and want to relax while flying I don't want to destroy my plane on takeoff because I would have put the trim all the way up by mistake. 

This doesn't mean that at other times I wouldn't enjoy flying in hard core mode.
I just want to know what I'm getting into. An automatic icon (like the one on the joystick) indicating which difficulty option a server uses seems to me a minimum to keep the game user-friendly.

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10 minutes ago, MattS said:

 

You've declined to address any of the points that I've taken the effort to present as logically as I can regarding the utility of the current Technochat in avoiding engine failures (ie timer expiration messages linked to the "Instrument Panel" that is disabled on MP servers anyway). 

 


Because I really don’t care what your “points” are.  I’m aware that tech chat isn’t realistic.  But we have all sorts of game limitations that also are not realistic.  Tech chat helps alleviate most of those things.  But if you still want no tech chat, I hope someone creates a server for you.  I don’t want the servers that I like changed.  Just because I don’t agree with you that does not make me “salty”.  You’ll note that I did not call you “salty” just because you disagree with me.

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Honestly, I’d imagine I’ll be content either way... the thing I’m massively concerned about is that this divides the multiplayer base like almost happened with the alternate visibility 

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26 minutes ago, CCG_bexhausted said:

 

Yes, but how do you deal with those who don't have one?
I don't fly with those at all anymore?

 

Very noticeable on the ground. But in flight I break a window to put my head outside? 

 

 

True. The engine breaks down without any warning signs.

 

1/2 turn = 10 % are you using the technochat ?

For Russian planes, you pay attention to the temperature gauges over what the levers are doing.  If you're getting good performance and the temp gauges are within the acceptable range, then you're good to go. Really you can do that in combat ?

 

My problem with the deleted technochat is simple: when I come home from work tired and want to relax while flying I don't want to destroy my plane on takeoff because I would have put the trim all the way up by mistake. 

This doesn't mean that at other times I wouldn't enjoy flying in hard core mode.
I just want to know what I'm getting into. An automatic icon (like the one on the joystick) indicating which difficulty option a server uses seems to me a minimum to keep the game user-friendly.

 

It would be great if we could see what realisam settings server have before we join, but thats cleary not as big priority as creating totaly new realisam setting that will most probably be used by small number of users and even smaller number of servers. Im sure all thouse missing switches and animations for on / off will be fixed now when no tech chat means they have to work properly, and all missing tech chat messages will also be fixed and work on servers that have tach chat ON.

2 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Honestly, I’d imagine I’ll be content either way... the thing I’m massively concerned about is that this divides the multiplayer base like almost happened with the alternate visibility 

nah who would think that, it will be just fine people online are reasonable.

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Tech chat is the dumbest, degrading thing for a WW2 Warbird SIM.  If you cant fly off the Gauges in the sim and are reliant upon Some cheat tech chat give me a break.  The Air  Quake force is too strong....  gee i wonder why the Real pilots didn't have magic tech chat but had real world limitations and knew them like back of their hands....

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To those who critisize the technochat for "lack of realism" you must come to the realization that we are not sitting in the cockpit of actual ww2 planes and that a lot of the physical warnings a real pilot would get are inacessible to us in this make believe plane, so those like me who think we might still need a degree of visual help do have a point.

Anyway i'm not against zero visual help and I guess we'll figure it out if there is at least a moving part or something that we can observe at least when it comes to the radiator position which is my main concern now that somebody reminded me that we can indeed use the exhaust flames.

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Posted (edited)

MercCrom175, it's mostly because real pilots sat in real cockpits with perfect 360 degree awareness and could work every control by feel and didn't have to fiddle with multiple key assignments, silly key combinations, and they are not viewing that world through the equivalent of a port hole directly in front of them.  Also they could feel, hear and smell things that no virtual pilot can. Many of the operations that we do are harder than they are in real aircraft.

 

Just another example of the harder is more real school of flight sim dogma.  It's rubbish.   Real is more real, harder or not.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
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1 minute ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

MercCrom175, it's mostly because real pilots sat in real cockpits with perfect 360 degree awareness and could work every control by feel and didn't have to fiddle with multiple key assignments, silly key combinations, and they are not viewing that world through the equivalent of a port hole directly in front of them.  Also they could feel, hear and smell things that no virtual pilot can. Many of he operations that we do are harder than they are in real aircraft.

 

Just another example of the harder is more real school of flight sim dogma.  It's rubbish.   Real is more real, harder or not.

After giving more thougths... I think I would love to have only the position of my controls. The same thing you can feel when you have your hands in your car. I think it would be good to get rid of the combat modes, tips and such in servers where this option is activated. Also damages. You don't know what thing you just lost after a burst unless you can see it.

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20 minutes ago, MattS said:

I presented a counterpoint to your proposition that losing Technochat was necessarily going to blow your engine.

 


Good for you.  I don’t care what your argument is.  I’ve been here since day 1.  I’ve flown every plane.  I know the issues.  If you don’t want tech chat, I hope someone creates a server for you. The fact that I don’t care to argue the ease of flying without tech chat says absolutely nothing about my “maturity”.  However, the fact the you keep attempting to argue it when all I obviously care about is that my favorite server not change probably does say something about your maturity.

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