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Variety of enemy planes met in careers.


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Hello there. First of all I am a huge fan of Il2 games and have been since the very first Il2 20 years ago.

 

Now, about the careers, I think AI planes and flights need a bit of tweaking. I currently have 4 allied careers running and I have yet to see a single Ju88 in the skies. I havent shot down a single He111 either and I very rarely see them. In my Dora career in 44, its Tempests escorting Thunderbolts all the time. Where are the spits IXs and the lightnings? The only times I see a spit its a single recon plane....but I think most of the recon flights in Europe 44 where performed by lightnings right?

 

Ok now I am aware that there are a limited amout of planes available in the game but even then I think the way careers are balanced right now it adds to the redundancy of the missions.

 

Lastly, are there talks about adding the b17 and b24? How about an eastern front 44-45 with La7s and Yak3s?

 

Still, awesome game and its even better now that I got a x56.

 

Peace out everyone.

 

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30 minutes ago, grcurmudgeon said:

I see Ju-88s and He111s all the time in the Moscow career mode, along with Stukas and various 109 flavors.

 

Havent seen a single Ju88 honestly, no kidding. A few 111s here and there. Its stukas stukas stukas. On the other hand, when I fly german in the Moscow campaign, 9 times out of 10 its Migs. Sometimes I-16s and no Lagg3 or almost. I have never seen a 190A3 in Stalingrad and I think I have seen Kittyhawks once. Just for the record, most of my careers are well on their way with more than 25 missions flown.

 

Its not bad really but I do think it could be more well balanced. 

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This is 100% an accurate assessment. I've played the career mode almost exclusively since the Rheinland map came out, and I've got to commend the developers on an overall great experience. The map, planes, and flight characteristics are overall really well done.

 

Having said this, maybe one of the biggest opportunities is the variety of the missions, and specifically the planes encountered. Across a 190D-9 career, a 109K-4 career, and a 109G-6/G-14 career, and countless hours played, I've consistently encountered Tempests escorting P-47s on about 95% of the missions. Every now and then I'll get a mission where I have to intercept a Spitfire flying recon at high altitude. I don't know that I've seen a P-51 on more than an occasion or two, and I've never seen a P-38. 

 

Great game, but I'd love to tackle something other than Tempests!  

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33 minutes ago, UrrrrhhhhhWoutwocampe said:

 

 Sometimes I-16s and no Lagg3 or almost. 

You're not supposed to see LaGG-3s in Moscow since the variant in game is a Post-Moscow production.

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38 minutes ago, UrrrrhhhhhWoutwocampe said:

On the other hand, when I fly german in the Moscow campaign, 9 times out of 10 its Migs. Sometimes I-16s and no Lagg3 or almost.

 

There are no LaGG-3s in the Moscow campaign.

 

38 minutes ago, UrrrrhhhhhWoutwocampe said:

I have never seen a 190A3 in Stalingrad and I think I have seen Kittyhawks once.

 

You won't see 190 A-3s unless you are flying for a 190 A-3 unit, because there were no 190s on the Stalingrad front. It's just there so it can be flown by the people who've bought that plane.

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This is why I recommend Stalingrad as the starter title for newcomers. It's got a great variety of planes. The FW-190 shouldn't be, as it never participated in the battle (maybe the latest stages after the encirclement), FW-190 Jagdgruppe's were located in sections of the front to the North. The Soviet side lacks the Yak-1b and Yak-7b but overall this is the stock campaign with the best variety. The other option is Kuban - especially if you have CE planes - has a very varied planeaset.

 

BoM is poor in that regard as the two Collector planes are actually more accurate in 1942, so that leaves only the I-16 and MiG-3 for the Soviets, plus the 1941 versions of the Il-2 and Pe-2. Earlier LaGG-3s and Yak-1s were powered by the M-105A or M-105PA engines, and had various small differences in the frame. Would be nice to see them but I do not see it happenning soon.

 

BoBP is same as the one above - one too early, the other too late in the war. What can you fly, historically accurate? An early production Bf 109G6 is possible for a Nachjagdgruppe or a second line/training unit but it's obsolete past Autumn 1944. Ju-88s were out of service in day bombing Gruppes by Autumn 1944 if I am not mistaking. And I doubt any FW-190A5s or Spitfire Mk.Vs were still in service over the Rheinland, so there you go - wait for Normandy to add more planes.

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11 minutes ago, Burdokva said:

The FW-190 shouldn't be, as it never participated in the battle (maybe the latest stages after the encirclement), FW-190 Jagdgruppe's were located in sections of the front to the North. The Soviet side lacks the Yak-1b and Yak-7b but overall this is the stock campaign with the best variety.

 

Fw 190 units were nowhere near Stalingrad at all. 

 

As for the Yak-1B and Yak-7B, those are spring 1943 aircraft.

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Fw 190 units were nowhere near Stalingrad at all. 

 

As for the Yak-1B and Yak-7B, those are spring 1943 aircraft.

Now that you mention it, I have never seen a yak7 either, never. I have seen the Yak 1b a couple of times though.

 

As for the 190A3, indeed it has no business in Stalingrad, but then again it shouldnt be flyable for this career neither.

1 hour ago, gydaveb said:

Having said this, maybe one of the biggest opportunities is the variety of the missions, and specifically the planes encountered. Across a 190D-9 career, a 109K-4 career, and a 109G-6/G-14 career, and countless hours played, I've consistently encountered Tempests escorting P-47s on about 95% of the missions. Every now and then I'll get a mission where I have to intercept a Spitfire flying recon at high altitude. I don't know that I've seen a P-51 on more than an occasion or two, and I've never seen a P-38. 

 

Great game, but I'd love to tackle something other than Tempests!  

 

This! So much this.

 

I shot more tempests than Hawker ever built in my D9 ;)

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Here is an interesting topic: What aircraft are we missing that were there? What potential AI aircraft are there for us to dream about?

 

For instance, if I recall correctly there were a punch of Pe-3 flying armed recon during Stalingrad?

 

 

5 hours ago, UrrrrhhhhhWoutwocampe said:

Lastly, are there talks about adding the b17 and b24? 

 

I completely came around to wanting those two aircraft after getting behind the controls of a Fw-190A8 in BoBP. Unfortunately, it appears that they were flown with such densities that a player's flight would be engaging with at least 36 bombers at any given time (i.e. within gun range)... not to mention escort fighters... and as they had so many more gunners than a lot of existing aircraft... it apparently can't be done for several years at least. Even if the guns aren't all firing the ones that are could easily lead to more than 100,000 bullets per minute... it is really quite impressive to think about.

 

Edited by Avimimus
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43 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I have never seen a Ju-52 in any of the careers.  Even in the Stalingrad chapter at the height of the encirclement.  Is there a particular difficulty with adding this aircraft?

 

Me neither, or a U-2 for that matter. I would love to butcher some of these in my careers.

Oh and btw, SBs for Moscow anyone? At the beggining of Barbarossa more than 80% of their bombers were SBs...

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While I know nothing concrete as per usual, based on my experience it seems to me that the enemy fighters which you encounter are at least somewhat based on the positions of enemy fighter squadrons on the map- though it is possible the game also roughly takes into account the hypothetical number of those aircraft serving in the sector when deciding what to spawn.

For example, flying as a German in Moscow I most often encountered MiGs throughout the campaign, only encountering I-16s generally in the early game and P-40s only when I flew near their sector of the front around Kalinin in November.  As such, I believe that the game treated the MiG effectively as the "default" enemy fighter, and other enemies were only encountered in the cases where I came near their bases.

The same went for Stalingrad, where the default fighter switched over to the Yak-1, but there was a good variety of other aircraft all throughout the career as I can remember engaging La-5s, MiGs, and I-16s quite often in the early stages, along with Pe-2s- though this changed by the end of the career when I most commonly encountering A20s, Yak-1s and La-5s.

Now in Kuban I believe the default fighter has been switched to the LaGG, but I can't say for sure as I regularly encounter Yak-1bs, Yak-7s, and P-39s in extreme numbers, with the default bomber seeming to have been switched over to the A-20 and Pe-2s only appearing as recon aircraft.  I have only encountered Spitfires on two occasions when I strayed too far north into the airspace of the 57th GIAP (and was subsequently thrashed within an inch of my life).

I haven't gone very far in any Bodenplatte careers as of yet, but you could always try buzzing a designated P-51 airfield and seeing what happens lol.
The lack of German bombers in Bodenplatte could be attributed to the fact that the bomber arm of the Luftwaffe was practically useless by the late war and flying an He-111 anywhere near a P-51 is just asking for it imo.
 

At no point have I ever seen JU-52s or U-2s in any of the careers, I only encountered friendly Bf-110s a few times back in Moscow, and I saw MC.202s a single time over Stalingrad.
I never saw FW-190 A3s in Stalingrad (which is historically correct) and Fw-190 A5s have appeared in Kuban only as ground attack aircraft and never as independent fighter patrols which seem to universally be made up of Bf-109 G2s/G4s/G6s.

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18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Fw 190 units were nowhere near Stalingrad at all. 

 

As for the Yak-1B and Yak-7B, those are spring 1943 aircraft.

 

I said the same thing about the 190s, not sure why you're quoting to correct me. ;)

 

You're wrong about the Yaks, though.

 

The Yak-1b was operational over Stalingrad from December 1942 with 176th IAP, 283rd IAD. Source - Yefim Gordon and Dmitry Khazanov Yakovlev Piston Engined Fighters, page 28.

 

The Yak-7B was also operational from late summer 1942, with an entire Air Division (288th IAD) at Stalingrad from August 20th onwards. Same book, page 51.

 

The 1943 Yak-7B is the lowered fuselage one, which isn't present in the sim.

 

So, both the Yak-7B and Yak-1b should be present in the latter stages of the Stalingrad campaign.

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I do encounter STRANGE AI P-47s with British skins and markings for the mid or final phases of the Bondenplatte campaign....

 

Our AI don't seem to use DLC collector planes are not seen in most campaigns...

22 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

No

 

 

So...AI models of those is not possible for them?

 

Is it the complication of many amount of gunners?

Edited by jojy47jojyrocks
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5 hours ago, Burdokva said:

You're wrong about the Yaks, though.

 

The Yak-1b was operational over Stalingrad from December 1942 with 176th IAP, 283rd IAD. Source - Yefim Gordon and Dmitry Khazanov Yakovlev Piston Engined Fighters, page 28.

 

You missed the point I was making about the Yak-1B and the Yak-7B:  the models we have in the game are spring 1943 models. 

 

2 hours ago, jojy47jojyrocks said:

I do encounter STRANGE AI P-47s with British skins and markings for the mid or final phases of the Bondenplatte campaign....

 

Nothing strange - those are supposed to be there.

Edited by LukeFF
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Hello,

On Stalingrad, we do not see the He 111 and Ju 88 and very rarely the Bf110. By conyre I meet them on Kuban. In fact their squadrons are based very far from the front in BOS like the JU 52 also.

In fact this comes from the Modcarrer's algorithm which takes the enemy squadrons according to their proximity to the mission of the player, and will therefore privilege the closest, therefore always the same. Certain types of enemy aircraft are therefore never activated because they are too far away.

The solution would be to find out how they work and modify the files in the SCG folder to activate these units.

Or that the algorithm of the mod carreer is modified by the game developer.
 
5 hours ago, Burdokva said:

 

I said the same thing about the 190s, not sure why you're quoting to correct me. ;)

 

You're wrong about the Yaks, though.

 

The Yak-1b was operational over Stalingrad from December 1942 with 176th IAP, 283rd IAD. Source - Yefim Gordon and Dmitry Khazanov Yakovlev Piston Engined Fighters, page 28.

 

The Yak-7B was also operational from late summer 1942, with an entire Air Division (288th IAD) at Stalingrad from August 20th onwards. Same book, page 51.

 

The 1943 Yak-7B is the lowered fuselage one, which isn't present in the sim.

 

So, both the Yak-7B and Yak-1b should be present in the latter stages of the Stalingrad campaign.

I think it is possible to add Yak1b and Yak7 in BOS, I did this by modifying the "Squadron" and "Skin" files.

It works for the player's planes but I haven't been able to activate them in AI.

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33 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Nothing strange - those are supposed to be there.

 

 

Are you implying the P-47 where used by the Brits as well, or did the USA use British markings?🤨

 

I mean...the AI P-47 using British markings? Not making sense...

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I wish they would at least put some 'intercept ju52' missions into BoS.  It was a major part of the air battle, kind of disappointing to not even see them unless you fly the planes yourself.  Couldn't they at least station a squadron at Ptomkin just to represent all of the ju52s and other cargo aircraft that wound up sitting there?

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20 hours ago, jojy47jojyrocks said:

 

 

Are you implying the P-47 where used by the Brits as well, or did the USA use British markings?🤨

 

I mean...the AI P-47 using British markings? Not making sense...

 

This is a bug in the "skins" and "squadron" files in the "SCG" folder of the BOPB career, I corrected it in my game and the P47s are now in US marking.

I would have to download my corrected files. I'm looking at that tomorrow.

Edited by MarcoPegase44
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3 hours ago, MarcoPegase44 said:

 

This is a bug in the "skins" and "squadron" files in the "SCG" folder of the BOPB career, I corrected it in my game and the P47s are now in US marking.

I would have to download my corrected files. I'm looking at that tomorrow.

 

It's not a bug - it's what's known as a "fake squadron" that was created in this case with the country set to Great Britain.

 

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

RE: RAF P-47's... I thought all Thunderbolt I's and II's were used in Burma with SEAC and that none were assigned to the 2nd TAF. Now I have to look at my books.

 

You're right in that none of the P-47s given to the British were with the 2nd TAF. I asked one of the developers about it, and they explained why it was done the way it was (which I unfortunately cannot recall at the moment, but it wasn't by mistake).

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4 hours ago, CAFulcrum said:

I wish they would at least put some 'intercept ju52' missions into BoS.  It was a major part of the air battle, kind of disappointing to not even see them unless you fly the planes yourself.  Couldn't they at least station a squadron at Ptomkin just to represent all of the ju52s and other cargo aircraft that wound up sitting there?


I wish this would happen. 

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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's not a bug - it's what's known as a "fake squadron" that was created in this case with the country set to Great Britain.

 

 

 

Hello,
But then why not have
 the"fake squadron" that was created in this case with the country set to USA???

I modified it like that with the right skin
I did not note any impact on the game afterwards but I cannot not have noticed everything during my missions

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5 hours ago, CAFulcrum said:

I wish they would at least put some 'intercept ju52' missions into BoS.  It was a major part of the air battle, kind of disappointing to not even see them unless you fly the planes yourself.  Couldn't they at least station a squadron at Ptomkin just to represent all of the ju52s and other cargo aircraft that wound up sitting there?

 

We used to have those missions in the old Campaign mode. They weren't great missions (it was the early days) but it'd be great to see them come back.

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  • 3 weeks later...
32 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Bump.

 

As any of you ever seen a U-2 in a career? Wether you are flying russian (any other plane than a U-2) or german.

 

I really wish there will be a patch in the future to fix some issues about variety.

 

This already came up in the PO2 thread a few hours ago.  At least one person has reported seeing one.  PO2 was a night attack plane so you would expect to see them at night (or not since it's going to be dark :) ).

 

They do exist in PWCG.  You can fly for the night witches.   If you get a night mission you might encounter them while flying for a different unit.  I'm pretty sure they are in the in game career mode as well.  Not sure how they are treated there.   

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17 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

This already came up in the PO2 thread a few hours ago.  At least one person has reported seeing one.  PO2 was a night attack plane so you would expect to see them at night (or not since it's going to be dark :) ).

 

They do exist in PWCG.  You can fly for the night witches.   If you get a night mission you might encounter them while flying for a different unit.  I'm pretty sure they are in the in game career mode as well.  Not sure how they are treated there.   

 

Interesting, so if you start a U-2 career you will fly night missions? 

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Unfortunately I don't know anymore if it was in the game's career or PWCG, but quite some time ago, I met them in two missions with a Focke Wulf and was surprised how easy they were to shoot down. They hardly tried to evade and pretty much every hit in the wings brought them down. I would have thought that they, as biplanes, would take more damage. But maybe it was just the AI not being able to fly them adequate.

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I've completed approximately 10 careers so far and started many others and those are the E/A I've never encountered : JU52, U2, FW190A3, Macchi202. Those are all collector planes that I own btw. Re: the 190A3, a good explanation was offered for its absence by some of you, but re: the other planes it's a bit disappointing because to begin with this sim offers access to a limited variety of planes, especially in BOM. Even the Stuka is not in BOM !! But at least the Germans have more planes than the Russians (they have only five in BOM, including the P40, a lend-lease collector plane.)

 

On a complementary note, someone pointed to the lack of credibility of those escort missions where Tempests provide cover for P47s. The fact is that presently, the sim offers no real, designated ground attack planes for the Commonwealth. The Spit could be used by default, but really...This will change with BON (Typhoon). But this raises another issue: mission types..they are even more limited than the number of planes available. I am not a programmer, but would it be possible to diversify mission types ? Intercept transport planes, attack ships and shipyards, attack bomber escort while AI planes engage the bombers, defend airfield, attack moving trains, etc... This would help a bit to compensate.

 

To return to the initial subject : the variety of E/A I remember that with 1946, you could find quite a few, if not numerous purely AI E/A... Not sure if the devs would consider this option eventually. They seem very rigorous in offering (flyable) planes with credible flight characteristics and behaviors, I guess that just that in itself would be demanding if they were to create multiple and credible AI planes... At the same time , everybody is b******g about the AI, complaining that it is everything but realistic... 

 

I love this sim, it has its flaws but the devs are doing their best with the resources that they have. I am no whining, just commenting

 

Excuse my English, this is not my mother tongue

 

Edited by Cleo9
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8 hours ago, Cleo9 said:

JU52, U2, FW190A3, Macchi202

 

I came across the rest of them prior to the Career update a long time ago. Back when the Career was a bunch of clickable areas on the map that generated missions much like QMB, with a number of scripted missions spread out. I specifically remember encountering 190s and Macchi 202s during that period, so I'm guessing something must have changed in how these missions are now generated. 

 

I mean I'm sure there were 190s over Stalingrad despite me flying for the VVS. Encountering them was the whole reason I bought the thing, and the La-5 as well. 

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1 hour ago, MarderIV said:

 

I came across the rest of them prior to the Career update a long time ago. Back when the Career was a bunch of clickable areas on the map that generated missions much like QMB, with a number of scripted missions spread out. I specifically remember encountering 190s and Macchi 202s during that period, so I'm guessing something must have changed in how these missions are now generated. 

 

I mean I'm sure there were 190s over Stalingrad despite me flying for the VVS. Encountering them was the whole reason I bought the thing, and the La-5 as well. 

You won't encounter them anymore, because they were not there. You can fly careers with them, but you won't see them in AI flights. I am not completely sure about the Macchi, however, but for the 190, it was stated by Luke.

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10 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I am not completely sure about the Macchi

 

In my Ju52 Stalingrad career I had Mc202s as escort during the airlift phase of the battle. So, I did not encounter them as enemy, but they were still generated as friendly AI.

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41 minutes ago, ROTER_BART said:

 

In my Ju52 Stalingrad career I had Mc202s as escort during the airlift phase of the battle. So, I did not encounter them as enemy, but they were still generated as friendly AI.

 

Macchi were at Stalingrad so their appearence is technically correct (even if they were based more north-westward than in game)

 

@Feathered_IV not to dab on you but I checked again my careers log and I have a Ju-52 victory while flying with 812 IAP in Stalingrad 😅 it happened months ago so I can't really remember the situation though...

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15 hours ago, Cleo9 said:

I've completed approximately 10 careers so far and started many others and those are the E/A I've never encountered : JU52, U2, FW190A3, Macchi202. Those are all collector planes that I own btw. Re: the 190A3, a good explanation was offered for its absence by some of you, but re: the other planes it's a bit disappointing because to begin with this sim offers access to a limited variety of planes, especially in BOM. Even the Stuka is not in BOM !! But at least the Germans have more planes than the Russians (they have only five in BOM, including the P40, a lend-lease collector plane.)

 

On a complementary note, someone pointed to the lack of credibility of those escort missions where Tempests provide cover for P47s. The fact is that presently, the sim offers no real, designated ground attack planes for the Commonwealth. The Spit could be used by default, but really...This will change with BON (Typhoon). But this raises another issue: mission types..they are even more limited than the number of planes available. I am not a programmer, but would it be possible to diversify missions types ? Intercept transport planes, attack ships and shipyards, attack bomber escort with AI assistance for the bombers, defend airfield, attack moving trains, etc... This would help a bit to compensate.

 

To return to the initial subject : the diversity (or lack of) airplanes I remember that with 1946, you could find quite a few, if not numerous purely AI E/A... Not sure if the devs would consider this option eventually. They seem very rigorous in offering (flyable) planes with credible flight characteristics and behaviors, I guess that just that in itself would be demanding if they were to create multiple and credible AI planes... At the same time , everybody is b******g about the AI, complaining that it is everything but realistic... 

 

I love this sim, it has its flaws but the devs are doing their best with the resources that they have. I am no whining, just commenting

 

Excuse my English, this is not my mother tongue

 

 

Excellent post.

 

Btw has anyone ever seen an AI flown La5FN in a Kuban career?

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8 hours ago, MarderIV said:

 

I came across the rest of them prior to the Career update a long time ago. Back when the Career was a bunch of clickable areas on the map that generated missions much like QMB, with a number of scripted missions spread out. I specifically remember encountering 190s and Macchi 202s during that period, so I'm guessing something must have changed in how these missions are now generated. 

 

I mean I'm sure there were 190s over Stalingrad despite me flying for the VVS. Encountering them was the whole reason I bought the thing, and the La-5 as well. 

 

Do you know what happened to the scripted missions when they rebuilt the career mode?

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Planes I have never seen in career mode:

 

Macchi 202

Ju52

Ju88

P38

P51

 

Not sure if I've seen all the yaks in game.

 

I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. 

 

Has anyone seen Me262s?

 

Would it be hard to program their appearance? Feels a bit weird to not utilize these assets. 

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