Jump to content
Sublime

The new DMs and .50 cals..

Recommended Posts

Yes I know "look for yourself"

 I want opinions. Are .50s really nerfed now? Like anyone who has the "other game" with a P51 will know how bad those .50s are it makes it unplayable for me ww2 wise. (I rlly should play a few bomber intercepts in ww2 in it while its free still.  Otherwise my f14 is fine)

Are they that bad or was it scaled back?

Tbh I liked what I saw from the new DM BUT I didnt use a lot of US stuff on the few flights with it.  I loved HE shells finally seemed to do what theyre supposed to.

But the .50s felt pretty accurate to me damage wise before; it was more that HE wasnt modelling frag damage right and certain planes died easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Yes I know "look for yourself"

 I want opinions. Are .50s really nerfed now? Like anyone who has the "other game" with a P51 will know how bad those .50s are it makes it unplayable for me ww2 wise. (I rlly should play a few bomber intercepts in ww2 in it while its free still.  Otherwise my f14 is fine)

Are they that bad or was it scaled back?

Tbh I liked what I saw from the new DM BUT I didnt use a lot of US stuff on the few flights with it.  I loved HE shells finally seemed to do what theyre supposed to.

But the .50s felt pretty accurate to me damage wise before; it was more that HE wasnt modelling frag damage right and certain planes died easy.

 

p51 .50's are AP...

 

try the .50 calls on Mig3, they are very much capable due to having the explosive charge in them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched a lot of guncam footage, like, a lot a lot, and the one thing you immediately notice after watching Thunderbolts and Mustangs go to town on some krauts is that basically every kill is either a full blown fire, or a bunch of small fires (which I imagine are mostly internal). In BoX fires are relatively rare, maybe because fuel lines aren't modeled (are they?) or the fact that in game .50 cal isn't AP-I (is it?). They're still bloody effective, but a little harder to confirm a kill with since fires don't happen to often here.

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think so, I can lit enemy planes, saw off wings, kill pilots.

You just need to press trigger little longer than before.

Wings are stronger now, so you cant saw off wings with small burst like before

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sublime said:

 

 I want opinions. Are .50s really nerfed now? Like anyone who has the "other game" with a P51 will know how bad those .50s are it makes it unplayable for me ww2 wise. (I rlly should play a few bomber intercepts in ww2 in it while its free still.  Otherwise my f14 is fine)

 

There are a lot of people who will tell you they are nerfed/useless , that has not been my experience. You just cannot shoot wings or tails off easily anymore.

I've run  a few tests in quick missions with the P-47 against bomber flights of 4. Ju-87s, He-111s, and Ju-88s as it is easier to line up shots on them and be sure of where you are hitting. I am usually able to shoot down all four bombers and still have ammunition left over. It is only necessary to aim for the engines or the cockpits. You can still shoot off control surfaces and cause a kill that way, but it is harder to do.

My impression is that roughly the same number of shots are needed to kill a bomber with .50 cals now vs. before, as long as you shoot at critical components. You will not be sawing off bomber wings or tails with these guns any longer, at least not often. 

A good burst into the engine usually stops it or sets it on fire. AP rounds effectively kill and injure pilots. It is easy to damage engines and cause coolant, oil and fuel leaks. 

Against fighters I do not seem to need to put too much ammo into the enemy, though it now seems virtually impossible to de-wing an aircraft with a short burst of .50 cals (a good thing, IMO). It does seem a little harder to shoot down fighters in one pass. Flying the P-47, though, it is difficult when making deflection shots to see just how many hits you have made. Once again, shots to the engine or cockpit are what you need, aiming for the wings or tail are low margin. That said, even small amount of hits on the wings and tail seem to reduce enemy maneuverability and speed by quite a bit, enabling you to follow up with more aimed shots.

The AP rounds seem extremely deadly in head ons to pilots and engines, testing that against the AI, even a few rounds either killed the pilot, the engine, or set the engine on fire. I think perhaps the engines are a little more vulnerable to AP rounds from the front quarter, and the armored glass does not stop 12.7 mm AP.

There does seem to be some issue with the 109 rear fuselage area soaking up a lot of ammunition, I am not sure if this is as intended or part of the issue with the stabilizer damage model. But when I have fired from low-6 I can often get a pilot kill with a good burst, so the fuselage damage itself is not super relevant to me. 
 

1 minute ago, ACG_Onebad said:

I watched a lot of guncam footage, like, a lot a lot, and the one thing you immediately notice after watching Thunderbolts and Mustangs go to town on some krauts is that basically every kill is either a full blown fire, or a bunch of small fires (which I imagine are mostly internal). In BoX fires are relatively rare, maybe because fuel lines aren't modeled (are they?) or the fact that in game .50 cal isn't AP-I (is it?). They're still bloody effective, but a little harder to confirm a kill with since fires don't happen to often here.

 

 

In-game the rounds are AP only. There are no incendiary rounds anywhere in the game. All damage is either AP or HE. Fires are rare but honestly most of my kills with .50 cals are either engine fires or pilot kills. I have heard people say the devs plan to add API once there is more accurate fuel system modeling but I have not seen that confirmed anywhere in a developer diary or other post, so I am not sure. API would certainly make the .50 cals somewhat more deadly, though I don't seem to have too much trouble setting engines ablaze with a short burst. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, pfrances said:

"Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . "Planes are too weak" . . . devs adjust DM . . . "Guns are too weak" . . . devs adjust  DM . . . 

 

Now it's that the German guns nuke everything in one hit and the American 50cals only plink away at the paint.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think the AP rounds should have their fuel fire chance increased, to compensate for the current lack of API modelling (all nations used API or dedicated Incendiary so everyone wins)  once we get proper API it can be toned down in the future.  Most of the times the fires happening in game are of the engine type, when the fuel tanks are more exposed and hit much more generally.

Also in multiplayer sometimes continuous hits can become quite innefective due to ping or packet loss or other netcode interactions leading to a rather frustating experience sometimes.
 

I also think with a good amouts of hits to a flight surface there should be a some amout of lift penalty, since all the holes together while small would still disturb the airflow, also if they hit stuff inside the wing they might tumble and then they can cause some nasty big holes like pic posted in the forums of that smuggler GA plane hit by a few rounds of .50 cal from an A-29 Super Tucano.

 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Should it not be API, there fore you get a chemical component aswell?  The incediary component should set fuel tanks ablaze.  Also the penetration power should also take out critical components such as pneumatic systems aka mk108 and electrical systems thus making bird non combat effective. 

 

Dont have game installed anymore but those would be my questions and things to check

 

why on earth is there no API in a WW2 game such as this?

Edited by MercCrom175

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really depends on my experience.

 

Shooting from dead 6 doesn't yield great results, although you can de-wing a 109 that way sometimes.

 

But I have also absolutely murdered 109s or 190s setting them on fire with a short burst usually during deflection shots where the engine block is more exposed.

 

Overall the US .50s are the hardest AA weapon to use, you have to be a good shot because you can't get away with it like with the German HE in my opinion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Birdman said:

Overall the US .50s are the hardest AA weapon to use, you have to be a good shot because you can't get away with it like with the German HE in my opinion.

 

I agree with this, .50s don't blow off a tail or wings as easy like the German HE. 

 

But, once you get good with the gunnery of the American planes they are a force to be reckoned with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

exactly, just like in real life the m2 is not a great area effect weapon as its actually very accurate and the shot group is rather tight. Also the ww2 fellas relied heavily on the Incendiary component of the 50 cal rounds in ww2.  As fire was the number one enemy of a ww2 bird.  So best thing to mitigate that is to get your gunnery on and hit the Engine compartment. The damage model from the vids ive seen looks very impressive and correct in my mind, you can send all the AP rounds you want into the rear or wing of a fighter and it will take time for systems to bleed out so to speak.  Now beating a dead horse if you had the incendiary component it would make kills much quicker as you hit fuel tanks and fuel lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Sublime said:

I want opinions. Are .50s really nerfed now?

 

For sure they are less effective as before. You need more bullets to shoot down an aircraft. Probably due to the DM and AP munition effectiveness changes. 

 

As they said, the new DMs are still work in progress. I'm pretty sure 50cal will be a least a bit more effective with next updates (with incendary ammos for example?). 

Edited by JG300_Faucon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S! 

 

Online results are not valid in determining effectiveness of weapon, at least according to devs. Offline is the place to test. Flown offline Ponies, Jugs and all, those guns shred anything in their way. Maybe you should just git gud and stop expecting something that is not realistic, at all. Have to aim more now to do damage, preferably hitting at convergence. Before new DM you just needed to sneeze in the general direction of the target to kill it, which was totally arcade. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SixGuns said:

 

wrong, learn to aim

 

image.png.b28fdf28a841b7803b112f1afedc8a65.png

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, SixGuns said:

 

screenshot-combatbox.net-2020_05.13-11_35_38.thumb.png.f0f9f7543fa600762a1fc22727f3f9a9.png

 

German guns are not OP as you state and again, learn to aim before drawing conclusions....

 

Imagine hitting aircraft with 45 rounds and not scoring a kill, while one of the guys I shot at scored two kills with only 28 rounds:

 

image.thumb.png.24cc79cade0d94f0856e56ea7d657138.png

 

I literally oneshot DerSheriff with a single cannon round in this sortie: https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/600628/?tour=22

 

Cannons of all types work great, HMGs just don't.

 

EDIT: I also note you haven't flown a P-51 or other .50cal equipped aircraft on Combat Box since March. Maybe you should give it a try in the new DM sometime.

Edited by Talon_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SixGuns said:

You have hit 3 planes with 45 bullets which is an average of 15 bullets by plane ... I hope you didn't imagine destroying those 3 planes :)

 

 

Unlike this sortie where you destroyed 2 planes with 5 bullets each: https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/589773/?tour=22

 

The damage disparity between cannon shells and HMG rounds is too great. .50cal rounds are big. They deliver a lot of kinetic energy.

 

The damage I applied to those 3 planes didn't even make any of them combat ineffective. They all maintained perfect control, tried to shoot back for a while then finally flew home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Unlike this sortie where you destroyed 2 planes with 5 bullets each: https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/589773/?tour=22

 

The damage disparity between cannon shells and HMG rounds is too great. .50cal rounds are big. They deliver a lot of kinetic energy.

 

The damage I applied to those 3 planes didn't even make any of them combat ineffective. They all maintained perfect control, tried to shoot back for a while then finally flew home.

.50 cals aren't really big all things considered. Also the way cannon shells (especially mineshells) apply their destructive power greatly differs from AP bullets or incendiaries. The latter require a hit on something critical, the former can get away with rough area hits. So the difference between 1-5 hits for cannons and 45 hits from .50 caks is not unreasonable at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mauf said:

.50 cals aren't really big all things considered. Also the way cannon shells (especially mineshells) apply their destructive power greatly differs from AP bullets or incendiaries.

 

.50cals aren't all that much smaller than a 20mm, especially when you have six/eight of them. Let's not forget that 20mm doesn't fire pure HE in this game and the 1-sec burst mass from a P-51 is actually higher than that of a Bf109.

 

U.S. Military 20mm and 50 Cal BMG Dummy Rounds | Asset Marketing ...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SixGuns said:

you don't have enough flying time

 

I have so little flying time that two years ago I literally set up the server you fly your sorties on 😂

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

p51 .50's are AP...

 

try the .50 calls on Mig3, they are very much capable due to having the explosive charge in them

Yes yes 

But Im just saying the 50s before patch - when I played extensively - felt "just right"  maybe a TAD op on blowing off wings but that was more a DM issue I thought. Im glad theres a change my question is like ...

In DCS those .50s on a p51 are useless. Fanbois there will just yell at you and say its "iron ass syndrome"   unless youre a Scharfi though that planes useless because its guns in DCS. 

My question was a poll of opinions, wanted to see if people felt it was "as bad'

I have toyed with the new DM and love it   but I was most pleased with the p51 in this game as it was one of thr first times in a sim I said "oh this is why the plane was a big deal"

Usually Im like "wtf? This thing sucks!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

.50cals aren't all that much smaller than a 20mm, especially when you have six/eight of them. Let's not forget that 20mm doesn't fire pure HE in this game and the 1-sec burst mass from a P-51 is actually higher than that of a Bf109.

 

 

Honestly even 30/37mm AP ammo does not do much damage unless you hit the engine or the pilot. Just take hs129 with 30mm AP mk103 and test it for yourself.

 

Would this be reasonable? I'd say yes. Hits to the engine from the .50cals make a short work of it most of the time, and you can snipe the pilot if you are able to hit reliably.

Would I expect a significant aerodynamic damage from a 12-20mm hole in a wing? Hardly. (And even currently Pe2 UBS gun causes pretty heavy FM damage IMO)

Edited by [110]xJammer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Yes yes 

But Im just saying the 50s before patch - when I played extensively - felt "just right"  maybe a TAD op on blowing off wings but that was more a DM issue I thought. Im glad theres a change my question is like ...

In DCS those .50s on a p51 are useless. Fanbois there will just yell at you and say its "iron ass syndrome"   unless youre a Scharfi though that planes useless because its guns in DCS. 

My question was a poll of opinions, wanted to see if people felt it was "as bad'

I have toyed with the new DM and love it   but I was most pleased with the p51 in this game as it was one of thr first times in a sim I said "oh this is why the plane was a big deal"

Usually Im like "wtf? This thing sucks!"

I would say: "It's unfinished". Proper incendiary modelling is missing and from what I can gather about it, the AP behaves as AP should. I do hope the update comes sooner rather than later. LW had their time with anemic mineshells, now Red side has to tough it out with the lack of incendiaries.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

.50cals aren't all that much smaller than a 20mm, especially when you have six/eight of them. Let's not forget that 20mm doesn't fire pure HE in this game and the 1-sec burst mass from a P-51 is actually higher than that of a Bf109.

 

U.S. Military 20mm and 50 Cal BMG Dummy Rounds | Asset Marketing ...

 

That's a great illustration - the .50 calibre is in terms of overall physical size.. fairly large. However its what's on the inside which is the most crucial difference.

 

Also as stated in the earlier posts - when incendiary ammunition for this weapon is eventually introduced it should improve kill rates significantly - especially if Luftwaffe aircraft are carrying MW50 tanks which will burn profusely if penetrated.

 

All AP rounds are going to do is make a neat hole through things and just because its an above average neat hole probably isn't going to be a decisive change except in penetration. The .50 calibre does have good penetration, but it will require a lot of neat holes or on target "bursts" at anything outside of very close range to knock out the key equipment that is protected by armour plate or has multiple layers of equipment / material in the way of the firing line. Deflection angles also complicate things.

 

Its also not the number of guns in the P-51 that matters - its the number of those guns actually hitting target and whether its on a concentrated area with those bursts, so that damage is being accumulated.

 

The real question is.. how many of those six .50 cal's are actually hitting their target and penetrating through the layers to get to core equipment when firing? while I'm sure you're right in theory about burst mass with a static target and optimal range  - it was difficult to achieve this in practice and certainly not easy with an enemy trying to evade you. That's why getting very close to target before firing is always the recommended advice, to improve hit probability and concentration before sway and other factors cause an effect.

 

It's quite easy to make slip changes in-flight when being chased to ensure that only one set of guns is ever likely to hit you (if chasing aircraft has wing mounted guns) and time and again fighters will slip between the two sets of guns - even when flying straight through your gunsight.

 

This is where centralised armament comes into play, its interesting to note RAF pilots stated in reports that one gun in the nose was considered equivalent to two split in each wing and that the ability to get the ammunition on target without horizontal convergence issues was more preferable to them (easier to calculate and more concentrated firepower).

Edited by Aurora_Stealth
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Took the P-38 out last night. The 50s seemed to do an adequate job of ruining days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the lack of knowledge of weapons systems and reality in this thread is laughable,  30mm trumps a 50 cal any day and any year of our human warfare history.  You wont get good effects from a 50 cal in this game until the Incendiary chemical reaction is modeled.   Have fun Air Quake arguing.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The games 3D modeling just doesn’t give you a good visual as to the amount of real damage you’re doing to a target. Usually a good burst into a guy is enough for him to go away out of the fight. I’ve noticed you really need to readjust how you engage and learn let guys go. Most of the time they don’t make it home. Game needs incendiary modeled though. There’s no reason not to have it.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they will model the Api. Now you need to aim on convergence to be much deadlier. that was not really important before so a good gunnery and good use of the deflection sight shoud be a big help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other piece really hurting the .50s right now, aside from the already mentioned 109 DM bug and the lack of Incendiary effect, is the big nerf that was made to pilot wounds.  I've had a number of fights now, where I've wounded the opposing pilot with .50s, sometimes multiple times, and had them just continue to aggressively dogfight with me for extended periods.  When hitting the pilot or hitting the engine are the only ways for the gun to be effective, but half the pilot hits essentially "don't count" because the only consequence of an HMG wound is a little blood in your eyes, it really puts you in a bind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 6 years of war, lots of statistics, research and experience, Allied air forces are quoted as considering 3 M2s to be the equivalent of 1 x 20mm cannon, in terms of combat lethality.

I don't see that in game. 

 

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S!

 

 Even the "Fifty" is a potent weapon, as it is if hitting well at convergence, even the subsequent M3 with higher ROF and velocity failed in Korea paving the way to 20mm guns. An average of 1064rds of .50cal was required per kill against a Mig-15. That means 8.5 seconds of firing in a Sabre. Quite a long time in aerial combat. 2/3 of the shot Migs safely returned to base with even more than 40-50 hits on them, causing frustration among US pilots. Now take the M2 with rate of fire 750-850rpm vs 1150-1250rpm on the M3..Makes a difference.

 

 New DM forces you to really aim, not just pray and spray. 50cal is potent and very lethal in the game, been on the receiving end before and after 4.005.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2020 at 5:42 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

Even the "Fifty" is a potent weapon, as it is if hitting well at convergence, even the subsequent M3 with higher ROF and velocity failed in Korea paving the way to 20mm guns. An average of 1064rds of .50cal was required per kill against a Mig-15. That means 8.5 seconds of firing in a Sabre. Quite a long time in aerial combat. 2/3 of the shot Migs safely returned to base with even more than 40-50 hits on them, causing frustration among US pilots. Now take the M2 with rate of fire 750-850rpm vs 1150-1250rpm on the M3..Makes a difference.

 

 New DM forces you to really aim, not just pray and spray. 50cal is potent and very lethal in the game, been on the receiving end before and after 4.005.

 

There's a big difference between a MiG-15 and a 109 or 190.  And there was a big difference in average combat speeds as well.  I'm quoting myself here from another post I made:

 

Quote

... Donald Caldwell actually has an analysis similar to this in his book Day Fighters in Defence of the Reich.  In it he has a statistical breakdown of Reich Defense force claims and losses vs the 8th Air Force.  What makes this especially interesting is that almost every aerial gun employed by the 8th AF was an M2 .50 (P-38s and Spitfires accounted for a little over 5% of 8th FC claims, all of the rest of these losses would be coming from 47s, 51s, and bomber gunners).

 

Totals for the Bf109 were 3,088 aircraft destroyed and 1,106 damaged, with 1,343 pilots KIA/MIA and 792 WIA.  I lumped the handful of MIAs in with KIAs here, as very few of the missing had actually survived to be captured (not surprising since most combat was over friendly territory for the German forces at this point).  Totals for the FW190 were 1,923 aircraft destroyed and 751 damaged, with 985 pilots KIA/MIA and 486 WIA.  Some quick math shows that a 109 hit by enemy fire was destroyed 73% of the time, with 32% of pilots KIA/MIA and 19% WIA.  For the 190 it works out to a 72% chance of being destroyed if hit, with 37% KIA/MIA and 18% WIA.  The numbers of the two types are close enough, that given all the unknowns, there was probably no meaningful difference in survivability.  So overall, around 72% of the time a 109 or 190 was hit it was downed, roughly 53% of the time a German fighter was hit the pilot was wounded or killed, and if the aircraft was destroyed around 46% of the time the pilot was killed.

 

So nearly a 3/4 loss rate for German fighters vs the 2/3 survival rate of the MiGs.  Whether or not the damage model is perfect, we still have the wrong ammo (and no way to model incendiary effects even if we did have API) and we also don't have an option for historically used convergence settings, which would likely increase the chance of getting a couple of those .50s into the pilot/engine/fuel tanks etc.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S!

 

 Mig-15 sure is a different matter, but USAF used API in M3 and those Migs just did not magically turn into torches, even hit tens of times. Russian ace Yevgeny Georgievich Pepelyaev in Korea quoted the .50cals bounced off the skin of Mig. I get the feeling people expect the API be like a SureFlame(tm) device. Expectations vs reality does not meet. And this applies to all guns in game, not only .50cal. I did some testing offline in QMB against Bf109 and Fw190 in a Pony. If I hit at convergence the planes went down with a less than a second burst, usually pilot kill and leaks. Fire was not that regular, but happened. So the guns do work, but needs careful aiming.

 

This brings us to the convergence setting. Even in the old Aces High 2 game you could set individual convergences for guns to achieve better coverage on target. It would help in IL-2 as it seems guns are having very little to no dispersion. This makes aiming harder in fast situations. With the convergence settings you could saturate the target area more thus increasing the chance for hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

 Mig-15 sure is a different matter, but USAF used API in M3 and those Migs just did not magically turn into torches, even hit tens of times. Russian ace Yevgeny Georgievich Pepelyaev in Korea quoted the .50cals bounced off the skin of Mig. I get the feeling people expect the API be like a SureFlame(tm) device. Expectations vs reality does not meet. And this applies to all guns in game, not only .50cal. I did some testing offline in QMB against Bf109 and Fw190 in a Pony. If I hit at convergence the planes went down with a less than a second burst, usually pilot kill and leaks. Fire was not that regular, but happened. So the guns do work, but needs careful aiming.

 

This brings us to the convergence setting. Even in the old Aces High 2 game you could set individual convergences for guns to achieve better coverage on target. It would help in IL-2 as it seems guns are having very little to no dispersion. This makes aiming harder in fast situations. With the convergence settings you could saturate the target area more thus increasing the chance for hits.

 

I completely agree - but just note that if 50 cals were bouncing off the skin, HE cannon shells would too, especially if they are of mineshell type.  They have a lower sectional density, a lower muzzle velocity, and for a given range will tend to slow down more.  All of these factors will make ricochets more likely unless you can get one up the engine's backside.

 

I think this must have been an increasing problem in the jet age: as the flight speeds increased, the effective speed of projectiles vs the air increased, (MV + plane airspeed),  accelerating deceleration (?!).   The distance between shooter and target if anything got bigger.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the greater power of the .50 cal is the quantity of bullets per second that you put in the target. .50s are nerfed you don´t need HE is a bullet pass thru the chassis straight to engine, and other existential parts. DM model is not working correctly, one shoot of HE bullet in the wing on a yak for example, destroy the entire wing, damage the engine and injurer the pilot.

30 bullets .50 cal don´t even loose speed or maneuverability on 109s .

 

Multiplayer crap, this is not a PFS(firts person shooter) where in 1 sec the other player can shoot your in the head, you can see in the video the P51 for almost a 15 sec shooting the 109s.

Devs most put all work in correct and optimize the multiplayer and DM and FM, we pay for that not for the BS that we have now

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 4
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either .50cals are crap, or the German DM's are broken. Six, .50cals should do a lot of damage, EIGHT, .50cals hardly a difference. 
How is this 109 still flying? 
https://streamable.com/ybg5xe

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Y-29.Silky said:

Either .50cals are crap, or the German DM's are broken. Six, .50cals should do a lot of damage, EIGHT, .50cals hardly a difference. 
How is this 109 still flying? 
https://streamable.com/ybg5xe

 

He's not still flying.  He clearly crashed.

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Found his from another thread. My experience flying online matches this pilots description of the hits damage and amount of time fired. 

 

357-yeager-12oct44.jpg

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sortie/654834/?tour=22

Considering I hit 181 times on 5 targets, 2 burst into flames, one pilot kill and one bailed after leaking everything. I only put a second or less of fire into each target. I don't think there is anything wrong here. Move on.

 

If you put even 50 or more 12.7mm holes into a plane and don't hit a critical system sure they will fly away. Being on the receiving end, I've had a hell of a time staying aloft and definitely couldn't continue the fight. Most of the time end up crashing on the way home or attempting to land. I wouldn't expect six or eight holes to do much.

Edited by VR-DriftaholiC
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

He's not still flying.  He clearly crashed.


After I wasted all my ammo on him and he was still able to maneuver like nothing happened.

Edited by Y-29.Silky
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...