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JG300_Faucon

P47 D28 vs P47 Razorback (D22?)

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Hello, 

 

I was wondering, does those 2 variants has the same engine? And therefore, will almost have the same performances in speed. 

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The D-22 is generally approximately 10mph faster, as the airframe is less draggy. It has a smaller water tank, though, so you can't use water injection as much

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In il-2 46 it was faster only at abow ~30kft+ alts, slower below that.  

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Posted (edited)

Same powerplant/turbo and same top power available (unless they add 70" MAP when Normandy releases) 

D-22 is slightly faster due to a better prop but other than that performance will be nearly identical. 

Edited by Legioneod

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54 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I gonna fly this just for the cool look. Not for anything else

 

Well if it has about the same performances as D28, you won't be just a fat slow and juicy target when facing Fw190A and Bf109G. 

 

That was all my question is about: P47D28 is not competitive at all against Doras and K4s at low/medium altitude (where all engagements happen in our "IL2 world"). But in BON scenarios, the Razorback should be a suitable fighter. 

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26 minutes ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

Well if it has about the same performances as D28, you won't be just a fat slow and juicy target when facing Fw190A and Bf109G. 

 

That was all my question is about: P47D28 is not competitive at all against Doras and K4s at low/medium altitude (where all engagements happen in our "IL2 world"). But in BON scenarios, the Razorback should be a suitable fighter. 

 

That is an important note. The P-47's performance was very good versus the opposition in 1943 and part of the way in 1944. It's the late 1944 and 1945 arena where it isn't as competitive as a pure fighter.

 

The D-22 will probably feel more capable in that way.

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I'm also wondering if the visibility around the gunsight will be as poor as it was in IL2 1946... 

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12 minutes ago, JG300_Faucon said:

I'm also wondering if the visibility around the gunsight will be as poor as it was in IL2 1946... 

 

If I recall correctly... it was mounted far too low on that model. The cockpit wasn't finished on launch of IL-2: Forgotten Battles and it was never revisited ever.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JG300_Faucon said:

That was all my question is about: P47D28 is not competitive at all against Doras and K4s at low/medium altitude (where all engagements happen in our "IL2 world"). But in BON scenarios, the Razorback should be a suitable fighter. 

 

Nope, except high up at 10.000 metres you wont see any significant benefit against axis planes. A good groundpounder though.

Edited by sevenless

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3 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Nope, except high up at 10.000 metres you wont see any significant benefit against axis planes. A good groundpounder thoug.

The power settings for the D-22 and D-28 are exactly the same, against early 44 aircraft like the G6 it should fair ok compared to late 44-45 fighter like the K4.

If the Devs ever give the P-47 70" power settings (which it had by mid 44) then the P-47 will fair much better in later war scenarios than it currently does.

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The main reason why the Jug is a dog right now is it's fuel.

The 150-grade won't turn it into a rocket, but it will close the gap a fair bit.

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13 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The main reason why the Jug is a dog right now is it's fuel.

The 150-grade won't turn it into a rocket, but it will close the gap a fair bit.

Yep. At combat loads it'll still have good speed around 440mph at 21,000ft, making it light weight by taking lees fuel will certainly help alot as well.

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I always have the feeling it’s bleeds to much energy. Son’t have any prove though.

 

Grt M

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28 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

I always have the feeling it’s bleeds to much energy. Son’t have any prove though.

 

Grt M

We have a pilot quote in the other active P-47 thread that says that any more than 10 degrees AoA and the P-47 starts to bleed serious amounts of speed. That sounds accurate.

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3 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

Well if it has about the same performances as D28, you won't be just a fat slow and juicy target when facing Fw190A and Bf109G. 

 

That was all my question is about: P47D28 is not competitive at all against Doras and K4s at low/medium altitude (where all engagements happen in our "IL2 world"). But in BON scenarios, the Razorback should be a suitable fighter.

In "il2 world" if a server is based post November 44 it means the virtual Luftwaffe suddenly get 90% k4s and d9s in the air. In reality even on 1st Jan 45 they were in the minority ( although present in significant numbers ) The p47 is a good match against the a8, which in reality was just as representative of late war Luftwaffe.

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1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

We have a pilot quote in the other active P-47 thread that says that any more than 10 degrees AoA and the P-47 starts to bleed serious amounts of speed. That sounds accurate.


thnx. I did not know that. Do you have a link to the thread?

 

Grt M

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1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

We have a pilot quote in the other active P-47 thread that says that any more than 10 degrees AoA and the P-47 starts to bleed serious amounts of speed. That sounds accurate.

 

That's not what he wrote:

 

Screenshot 2020-05-11 at 14.22.42.png

 

 

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How long do you guys guesstimate before rhe first BoN planes start coming out?

Im facing a serious issue in several months. Wondering if any will be out before then maybe. Lol.

I really look forward to the older P51s and the Ar234 (I always liked the plane. Idk why the ar234 wasnt bobp and me262 nornmandy but...)

The typhoons too. 

Otherwise.. sorry im not super excited for the plane list.

Thatll change once theyre out.

I really really want them to make a damn yak3 DLC :(

not the stupid yak 9

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17 minutes ago, Sublime said:

How long do you guys guesstimate before rhe first BoN planes start coming out?

Im facing a serious issue in several months. Wondering if any will be out before then maybe. Lol.

I really look forward to the older P51s and the Ar234 (I always liked the plane. Idk why the ar234 wasnt bobp and me262 nornmandy but...)

The typhoons too. 

Otherwise.. sorry im not super excited for the plane list.

Thatll change once theyre out.

I really really want them to make a damn yak3 DLC :(

not the stupid yak 9

My Guess is we'll see the P-47 within a few months maybe sooner depending on how the development is progressing. P-47 is said to come after Yak-9 so I'm guessing it' not too far off.

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The p47 razorback interests me.. but Ill wait to see what people say. If things woek out well Ill preorder just as a sign of support but I may not be able to game anymore in a few months 😕

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That's not what he wrote:

 

Screenshot 2020-05-11 at 14.22.42.png

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. That is more accurate. Point still stands that a high G maneuver is not something that you particularly want to do without incurring some speed lost. I'm not sure where the AoA part came from... may have been the semi-recent interview with Nick Grey on the 47.

 

59 minutes ago, Sublime said:

How long do you guys guesstimate before rhe first BoN planes start coming out?

Im facing a serious issue in several months. Wondering if any will be out before then maybe. Lol.

I really look forward to the older P51s and the Ar234 (I always liked the plane. Idk why the ar234 wasnt bobp and me262 nornmandy but...)

The typhoons too. 

Otherwise.. sorry im not super excited for the plane list.

Thatll change once theyre out.

I really really want them to make a damn yak3 DLC :(

not the stupid yak 9

 

My roadmap is here which is based on what we know from the devs: https://stormbirds.blog/product-roadmaps/il-2-great-battles-roadmap/

 

The Yak-9/9T are coming in a few weeks. Despite your "stupid Yak-9" comment these fighters (the 9T in particular) flew alongside the Yak-3 up to the end of the war and are excellent performers. I think we'll see a Yak-3 when they do a scenario that warrants having the Yak-3 with Battle of Berlin being the obvious battle to feature it. There's absolutely no place for a Yak-3 in the skies over the Kuban. It's full up squadron service started later and elsewhere.

 

The P-47D-22 should be by summer. The Hurricane around that time too (thought not part of Battle of Normandy).

 

After that it's the Fw190A-6, Spitfire XIV and Typhoon. I'll be willing to bet that's what we'll see by the end of the year. According to Jason, the last on the list is the Ar234 (and the V-1 as that's part of the aircraft pipeline).

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're facing a serious issue in several months.

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9 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

I'm also wondering if the visibility around the gunsight will be as poor as it was in IL2 1946... 

 

Visibility certainly won’t be better in the D-22... unless you are using VR, the center windshield bar will be obstructing your view on the monitor. The sight is offset to the right so you will have to move your POV to use it. Then there is the rear view and the birdcage canopy that are a bit more obstructed than the bubbletop.

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5 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Thanks for sharing that. That is more accurate. Point still stands that a high G maneuver is not something that you particularly want to do without incurring some speed lost. I'm not sure where the AoA part came from... may have been the semi-recent interview with Nick Grey on the 47.

 

 

My roadmap is here which is based on what we know from the devs: https://stormbirds.blog/product-roadmaps/il-2-great-battles-roadmap/

 

The Yak-9/9T are coming in a few weeks. Despite your "stupid Yak-9" comment these fighters (the 9T in particular) flew alongside the Yak-3 up to the end of the war and are excellent performers. I think we'll see a Yak-3 when they do a scenario that warrants having the Yak-3 with Battle of Berlin being the obvious battle to feature it. There's absolutely no place for a Yak-3 in the skies over the Kuban. It's full up squadron service started later and elsewhere.

 

The P-47D-22 should be by summer. The Hurricane around that time too (thought not part of Battle of Normandy).

 

After that it's the Fw190A-6, Spitfire XIV and Typhoon. I'll be willing to bet that's what we'll see by the end of the year. According to Jason, the last on the list is the Ar234 (and the V-1 as that's part of the aircraft pipeline).

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're facing a serious issue in several months.

The stupid yak 9 thing was deliberately childish sounding.

Still cant hear you over wanting a yak 3 though

Thanks btw

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Using this report as a comparison point that used a P-47D-22 (going by the serial number) although with a Curtiss Electric propeller according to the report 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p47-26167.html

This is how it compares with our in game P-47D-28 with the same conditions (same power, weight and wing racks installed)

unknown.png

So I would expect a very similar gain (maybe a bit better because of the Hamilton prop?) in this case (and slightly higher if you take the D-22 in clean condition without wing racks).

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Posted (edited)

To me flying the 22 D and Tiffy will be a costly sentimental pleasure. Those planes ring all my bells. I only lack the Defiant and the Lysander and I got all the single engined planes I need for Europe. 
Imagine the Defiant, the tomcat of ww2. Mi 17 Hind of ww2. The pilot bring the man operating the weapon to battlefield 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

To me flying the 22 D and Tiffy will be a costly sentimental pleasure. Those planes ring all my bells. I only lack the Defiant and the Lysander and I got all the single engined planes I need for Europe. 
Imagine the Defiant, the tomcat of ww2. Mi 17 Hind of ww2. The pilot bring the man operating the weapon to battlefield 

cmon you gotta want a swordfish and barracuda staggering for height over Pompey to the channel - the way to slow wet death

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Just now, 56RAF_Stickz said:

cmon you gotta want a swordfish and barracuda staggering for height over Pompey to the channel - the way to slow wet death

Of course I want them , but did not want to sound demanding

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2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Imagine the Defiant, the tomcat of ww2. Mi 17 Hind of ww2. The pilot bring the man operating the weapon to battlefield 

Only problem with the Defiant was that by WW2 the battlefield was infront of the pilot, not behind :)

 

(but I have been slapped in the face by one while flying Bf110 in Dover, but I am generally an utterly useless pilot)

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19 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

The P-47D-22 should be by summer. The Hurricane around that time too (thought not part of Battle of Normandy).

 

Yes... although the Hurricane was used on the Normandy map... just a bit earlier.

 

Hurribombers were used in night time cross-channel raids. They were the major ground-attack aircraft during the great attempt to lure out the Luftwaffe during the Dieppe landings on August 19, 1942 where they fought Fw-190s and a few Bf-109Fs... with Spit Vb flying cover (and a handful of early Typhoons and Spit IXs).

 

It looks like Dieppe will be on the map... so we should be able to cobble it together... albeit the A-20 and Spitfire IX are slightly wrong variants and we'll be lacking the 80 or so Do-217Es that were thrown against the beachhead and the Alison engined Mustangs... but the point is that they Hurricane will still fit well on the map.

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1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

 

Yes... although the Hurricane was used on the Normandy map... just a bit earlier.

 

Hurribombers were used in night time cross-channel raids. They were the major ground-attack aircraft during the great attempt to lure out the Luftwaffe during the Dieppe landings on August 19, 1942 where they fought Fw-190s and a few Bf-109Fs... with Spit Vb flying cover (and a handful of early Typhoons and Spit IXs).

 

It looks like Dieppe will be on the map... so we should be able to cobble it together... albeit the A-20 and Spitfire IX are slightly wrong variants and we'll be lacking the 80 or so Do-217Es that were thrown against the beachhead and the Alison engined Mustangs... but the point is that they Hurricane will still fit well on the map.


Yeah a passable Channel 1942-1943 is possible here. I didn't want anyone to think I was responding to the Battle of Normandy content and including Hurricane II in there. It's a separately sold Collector Plane.

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 Whats ironic about the desire to force shed the high performance LW and Allied stuff for a 42/43 scenario is where this game was before BOBP just without most western allied planes :)

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1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

albeit the A-20 and Spitfire IX are slightly wrong variants

I'm not understanding why you would not use the Spit Mk5 in a Dieppe scenario.

6 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Imagine the Defiant, the tomcat

THE TOMCAT OF WW2!!!? What a horrible thing to say about the F-14. In what way were they similar? I have to hear this. The F-14 was one of the U.S. Navy's finest jets. The Defiant was a totally rediculous idea for a fighter. Elaborate, please.

17 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Visibility certainly won’t be better in the D-22... unless you are using VR, the center windshield bar will be obstructing your view on the monitor. The sight is offset to the right so you will have to move your POV to use it. Then there is the rear view and the birdcage canopy that are a bit more obstructed than the bubbletop.

Yes. Go into the P-40, and imagine the visibility about ten percent worse than that. You have your razorback P-47.

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3 minutes ago, Poochnboo said:

I'm not understanding why you would not use the Spit Mk5 in a Dieppe scenario.

 

Previous paragraph mentioned the Spit V ;) 

 

Yes, I'd figure that there were something like 20 Spit Vs for every Spit IX at Dieppe... and maybe four Spit Vs for every Hurricane II... so definitely a central plane to that huge airbattle - just one which we already have (whereas the Spit IX should probably be a IXc to be completely accurate).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Poochnboo said:

THE TOMCAT OF WW2!!!? What a horrible thing to say about the F-14. In what way were they similar? I have to hear this. The F-14 was one of the U.S. Navy's finest jets. The Defiant was a totally rediculous idea for a fighter. Elaborate, please.

I did in the post. Not much else to add. Tomcat had fire and forget tech, but as soon as it could be replaced by a plane actually flying straight it was replaced

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13 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I did in the post. Not much else to add. Tomcat had fire and forget tech, but as soon as it could be replaced by a plane actually flying straight it was replaced

Seems you know very little about the Tomcat.
 

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13 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

No but your easily aggravated

 First of all it's, "YOU'RE easily aggravated," but never mind. He didn't seem aggravated to me.

 

 

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