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Is there a fix coming for the awful visibility . 

I mean one second hes there the next its vanished . 

This is a flight sim on a wide range of graphic cards and monitors and TVs . 

We should all be able to see a Dam contact . 

This is becoming very frustrating . now !!

New monitor 1440p and my games look great . But where is the enemy . ??? . 

We all know there is a problem So is there any news on a Fix . Please . 

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps you could mention this in another section, like  Technical Issues and Bug Reports, where the developer is perhaps more likely to read it.  Also you might want to put-in a bit more work on the title.

Edited by Cynic_Al
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Is there a fix coming for the awful visibility . 

I mean one second hes there the next its vanished . 

This is a flight sim on a wide range of graphic cards and monitors and TVs . 

We should all be able to see a Dam contact . 

This is becoming very frustrating . now !!

New monitor 1440p and my games look great . But where is the enemy . ??? . 

We all know there is a problem So is there any news on a Fix . Please . 

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No point putting it anywhere else, seeing as we all know, as do the devs that this is an issue that has been raised repeatedly for months.

 

Last word I heard was that they planned to address this after 4.005 release, as that work was taking all their resources.

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Sadly this is the worst issue the sim has, I couldn't play the game without icons now, so I can't play online...my squad left the sim and moved to the modern combat sim, but I refuse to do it because I have spent a lot of money on this and I don't like jets very much. I hope the final solution comes soon because my patience is starting to reach the limit.

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Posted (edited)

Im 100% in VR now but when i used to play with monitor Reshade with lumasharpen filter was a game changer! I really hope that Devs could switch current sharpen with Lumasharpen slider. I have no clue is it even possible to add afterwards 

edit : link

https://reshade.me/forum/shader-presentation/3954-new-luma-sharpen

 

ps. VR does not support Reshade

Edited by Hartigan

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A relatively simple change that I would like to see is to make icons a three stage setting

1. No icons

2. Minimalist icons (no text, smaller)

3. Icons as today.

 

The only change is #2.  This would IMHO be a nice and simple stop gap until the larger problem is solved.  Have to agree that spotting is for me impossible without icons.  

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No fix coming, as it is not a bug but an issue. You should read the Dev Diary, there is a post explaining it in detail. Many monitors, graphic cards, graphic options, colors, gama, contrast, resolutions etc. Some people see the contacts from 8km as bright as day, some don`t see nothing until 200m closure.

 

I know I`ve been playing with the settings and getting very varying results, even dependant on a time of day in the mission done.  The community is torn on this as could ever be.

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1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

The only change is #2.  This would IMHO be a nice and simple stop gap until the larger problem is solved.  Have to agree that spotting is for me impossible without icons.  

 

Yes, this was asked long time ago, would help immensely, it is very simple, but they just do not do it. Hard to understand.

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When I played 1946 online, I mostly flew fighters. In BOX, I mostly fly ground attackers online, because playing as a fighter is just too frustrating. The only time I spot anyone is when I see tracers firing or somebody points out location of the enemy. 

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42 minutes ago, 4driano said:

 

Yes, this was asked long time ago, would help immensely, it is very simple, but they just do not do it. Hard to understand.

 

There is a mod that lets you do this -

 

 

 

I use the one shows only a small triangle above an aircraft, but no range data or aircraft type, so I have to ID the aircraft myself. I think this is a good compromise for use of a PC monitor and still leaves a lot of realistic uncertainty. I need to find out how to change it so that the colour of the triangle doesn't show which side the aircraft is on.

 

All for Mods On, of course, so not so much use for online play where it all seems to be set Mods Off.

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Posted (edited)

The problem is the combination of very dark shades and only color being shown in lighting. Anything opposite of the lighting side in the "shadow" side will be black. Which is why this problem exists. The lighting is simply too directional and the shadows are too dark. This is why turning on HDR lessons the darkness effect as it places a little more light in the shadow areas. For example if the sun is facing down towards the top of a plan we will see the paint colors. However viewing the bottom of the plane while facing up it will appear near black.

Another issue is, the game has a blur filter overlay across the screen. Probably to prevent jagged lines or stair stepping that causes flickering. However the downside is that all objects far away are in fact blurry. Additionally with ssao turned on, planes will be blurred further thus giving them a smaller silhouette compared to ssao being turned off. I covered most of this in my performance guide. 

Edited by Geronimo553
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5 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

Sadly this is the worst issue the sim has, I couldn't play the game without icons now, so I can't play online...my squad left the sim and moved to the modern combat sim, but I refuse to do it because I have spent a lot of money on this and I don't like jets very much. I hope the final solution comes soon because my patience is starting to reach the limit.

 

FYI, this 'other sim' has very similar problems. And I wouldn't say this aspect is better there. Just different.

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There is an option in the Realism settings under Game Play for "Alternate Plane Visibility".

 

For online play, you would have to request that from the server admin but I am sure there would be a few admins that wouldn't mind allowing it but, then people would whinge about not being able to sneak up on others. 

 

HDR also helps with lighting without blowing things out although the default settings in graphics gives us Bloom which I don't like in VR as it over does it.  This is disabled in the game.cfg file telling it to be 0 instead of 1.

 

For distance blur there is sharpen landscape or a general sharpen filter in settings - graphics.

 

Some resolutions and render targets will offer better results than others as will using AA but millage may vary and in VR, although low render targets with 4xMSAA can make spotting easy, the clouds alais quite a bit so I go with no AA and higher render targets cause I like clouds.

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1 hour ago, [301]luckyhendrix said:

 

FYI, this 'other sim' has very similar problems. And I wouldn't say this aspect is better there. Just different.

Probably why they are flying the modern planes in it, as they would have radar and other systems to help locate and target planes.

 

10 minutes ago, blitze said:

There is an option in the Realism settings under Game Play for "Alternate Plane Visibility".

 

For online play, you would have to request that from the server admin but I am sure there would be a few admins that wouldn't mind allowing it but, then people would whinge about not being able to sneak up on others. 

 

HDR also helps with lighting without blowing things out although the default settings in graphics gives us Bloom which I don't like in VR as it over does it.  This is disabled in the game.cfg file telling it to be 0 instead of 1.

 

For distance blur there is sharpen landscape or a general sharpen filter in settings - graphics.

 

Some resolutions and render targets will offer better results than others as will using AA but millage may vary and in VR, although low render targets with 4xMSAA can make spotting easy, the clouds alais quite a bit so I go with no AA and higher render targets cause I like clouds.

Berloga has this option enabled. Honestly, it simply introduces a large amount of contact scaling at long distances. It does nothing to improve nearby spotting - Berloga's choice of map location does more for spotting than the spotting setting. It does, however, make it very difficult to estimate distances to your targets - a target 10 km away will look like it is really close, and it even seems like close by target can even look smaller than one far away depending on FOV. You can find the fight but once you are in it you have the same issues with losing targets against the ground. It is useful for that server since it helps people find the furball, but once you get within a few km the visibility is not any different. 

2 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

The problem is the combination of very dark shades and only color being shown in lighting. Anything opposite of the lighting side in the "shadow" side will be black. Which is why this problem exists. The lighting is simply too directional and the shadows are too dark. This is why turning on HDR lessons the darkness effect as it places a little more light in the shadow areas. For example if the sun is facing down towards the top of a plan we will see the paint colors. However viewing the bottom of the plane while facing up it will appear near black.
 

This being the case, the new lighting model they are planning to introduce may assist with visibility. We'll have to wait and see.

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2 hours ago, blitze said:

There is an option in the Realism settings under Game Play for "Alternate Plane Visibility".

 

For online play, you would have to request that from the server admin but I am sure there would be a few admins that wouldn't mind allowing it but, then people would whinge about not being able to sneak up on others. 

 

HDR also helps with lighting without blowing things out although the default settings in graphics gives us Bloom which I don't like in VR as it over does it.  This is disabled in the game.cfg file telling it to be 0 instead of 1.

 

For distance blur there is sharpen landscape or a general sharpen filter in settings - graphics.

 

Some resolutions and render targets will offer better results than others as will using AA but millage may vary and in VR, although low render targets with 4xMSAA can make spotting easy, the clouds alais quite a bit so I go with no AA and higher render targets cause I like clouds.


Alternate Plane Visibility is about very long range spotting, the issues the users have, myself included, is the very low visibility of the contacts at close ranges, from 1-3 km away. Sometimes close planes that should be perfectly visible are rendered just as a few pixels.

Just took this screenshot from QMB.

unknown.png

Just above the horizon there is a Bf 109 heading towards me, at 1.3km close range.

It is rendered as a single pixel
unknown.png

Full size screenshot with label

unknown.png

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Posted (edited)

As much as I hate this problem I don't think there is much point fixing it until we see the effects of the devs implementing deferred shading. No point fixing something based on the graphics we have now only having to do it again when things get switched up due to the deferred shading.

Edited by Requiem
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Posted (edited)

As @-=PHX=-SuperEtendard pointed out, even at close distance the plane is invisible. I do not believe this is caused from a thin silhouette since this p51 is in a turn. Even if I max out sharpening with reshade there is no plane or black dot. There is simply nothing there except the exhaust trail. Perhaps at certain angles and distance planes now disappear?


Default game settings and HDR turned onIl-2_WYqLHlUEmQ.png.976a6608ec97ba6853c0af739d4445df.png

 

 

Default game settings and HDR turned on 
Il-2_g87gMolPF3.png

 

 

Reshade settings applied and HDR turned on

Il-2_JBtPdL44k8.png.2b02703ad414a1a2455fa22ddb945505.png

 



 

Edited by Geronimo553
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I don't know if people in this thread tried it out already but i had some success with setting image sharpening and ignore film grain to 1 within the nvidia control panel. 

 

Besides that and lowering resolution i feel like i am completely lost in terms of what helps and what is simply a placebo. It is so complex to test that it makes it very tedious, especially when you most of the time don't see any noticeable difference

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IMO the visibility issue is the most playability degrading among other issues we have right now, but visuals are terrible for MP; it's impossible to have a decent SA since new visual feature was added cause you must have a contact totally zoomed in in order to not lose it. I really miss previous visuals, any trained eye could keep several contacts in sight while fighting, you could build a mental picture and act accordingly. 

I know the vanishing airplanes at 10km and beyond were not really nice, but if i had to choose between the two of them, hands down to previous one.

Devs apply things that have good intentions like this, or the physyology which is a great idea, but the way they are implemented they do more damage than help. DM, physyology and visuals for plane spotting, all three of them are really good new features but they all need a good tweaking.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


Alternate Plane Visibility is about very long range spotting, the issues the users have, myself included, is the very low visibility of the contacts at close ranges, from 1-3 km away. Sometimes close planes that should be perfectly visible are rendered just as a few pixels.

Just took this screenshot from QMB.



Just above the horizon there is a Bf 109 heading towards me, at 1.3km close range.

It is rendered as a single pixel
unknown.png

 

 

 

For issues like this, I highly recommend disabling anti-aliasing, sure it's not quite as smooth and pretty, but this looks like a case of the anti-aliasing blending out adjacent pixels. 

For the record I run without AA in VR, it has helped a bunch. 

 

That said, they do need to look at close in plane rendering to make them generally more visible. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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Purely from personal experience and on my setup, I find that spotting contacts at nearly all distances out to around 10 km (on a high resolution monitor - 4K) with standard visibility set is fairly good. If I set alt-vis when using a higher resolution the results are very undesirable indeed with aircraft being extremely hard to spot at a close distance . 

 

However, if  using 1920 x 1080 or below spotting is much easier from extreme and closer contacts with alternative visibility set.

 

Unfortunately, it seems dependent on a number of things including software and hardware setup. 

  

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2020 at 3:33 PM, Mac_Messer said:

No fix coming, as it is not a bug but an issue. You should read the Dev Diary, there is a post explaining it in detail. Many monitors, graphic cards, graphic options, colors, gama, contrast, resolutions etc. Some people see the contacts from 8km as bright as day, some don`t see nothing until 200m closure.

 

I know I`ve been playing with the settings and getting very varying results, even dependant on a time of day in the mission done.  The community is torn on this as could ever be.

 

This is a huge issue. And IMHO only possible to solve by a compromise, as 1:1 "realistic" rendering we have now is neither a) working b) realistic ...

 

They only made things worse by adding this Alternate visibility option. It does fix certain aspects of contact rendering (visible at any zoom level), and at the same time introduced game braking long distance rendering. What is even worse it split the community up on the subject - I agree wholeheartedly.

 

IMHO a stop gap solution would be to limit the ALT VIS to a bubble of lets say 15km and remove the current default rendering option. Until there is time to assign resources to deal with this issue on a more detailed level.

 

I do agree, flying bombers is the most fun one can have in this sim. If only we had more of them...

 

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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We need sharpen and lower gamma on contacts (or some sort of dark border around them to mark their silhoutte) - that is what we all trying do using reshade, low gamma and all that tweak crap. 2nd thing - zoom needs to be working right way it means max zoom biggest dot not that weird state we have now. For me widest field of view = best dot until it is like 2 km when it (dot) starts to get bigger in max zoom. Personally regarding the zoom I do really hate the fact then when you zoom in all the crap starts like things getting visible when they werent trees getting shadows and so on - thats why I use 3 preset zoom levels. BTW If you want to see something strange with zoom just try 3Dmigoto mod with it's zoom enabled for 2D then you will see how silly big contacts became on max zoom for me it means the game is doing zoom different way not showing planes in full size (when far away at least) -  if the vr ppl have them contacts that way it explains that they don't complain using migoto u can see planes very far and they move kinda slow motion.

 

I really hope the devs can do smth more constructive than lock this thread like some other on this on english forum or bann ppl like they do on russian one :)

 

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9 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

 

For issues like this, I highly recommend disabling anti-aliasing, sure it's not quite as smooth and pretty, but this looks like a case of the anti-aliasing blending out adjacent pixels. 

For the record I run without AA in VR, it has helped a bunch. 

 

That said, they do need to look at close in plane rendering to make them generally more visible. 


This is with 0 antialiasing configuration.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

Besides that and lowering resolution i feel like i am completely lost in terms of what helps and what is simply a placebo. It is so complex to test that it makes it very tedious, especially when you most of the time don't see any noticeable difference

 

My native resolution is 1920x1080 (which is already outdated in modern times) and today I made a small discovery. I noticed that the people I fly with online are constantly seeing targets far better and much further away than I could. Even happens if I'm looking in the same place as them! Like this was driving me insane because my picture was crisp and perfect. (via reshade) Yet they are somehow spotting planes faster and further away just with default graphics?? Nah no way could there be such a difference!

Well long story short, I lowered my resolution to the next lowest size of 1680x1050 and taadaa I can see contacts perfectly fine out at distance. So yeah, if people are having spotting issues. Then do the opposite of what you would expect to do for improving visual quality and that is lower your resolution. Somehow the stretched image in full screen helps considerably. I also swear my controls are more smooth now as well. Both of these results just defy everything I expected to happen.

(semi rant time)
When someone has to juggle all the settings to overcome game short falls, all the technical difficulties plus time setting up controls, and now even lowering resolution to correctly spot planes. All of it really makes me think that the game needs a general overhaul from all the clunkiness or hidden things someone has to know to enjoy the experience. IL-2 has improved greatly since 2018 and there is no doubt everything is definitely better. But all these hidden frustrations and little things all really add up after a while. Now with planes being difficult to see, it's really beginning to highlight that such issues need addressed to improve the user experience.

Edited by Geronimo553
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S!

 

 Improved spotting, removal of useless post-processing filters etc. and things would be a lot better in this regard.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2020 at 1:43 PM, Hartigan said:

Just to point on this for owners of medium-hardware: I tested AdaptiveSharpen (according to @Geronimo553 s 3000-steps-masterpiece) - with a bit of tweaking LumaSharpen is nearly as good as AdaptiveSharpen a la Geronimo. But for a lower fps-price.

 

For the contact detecting game  Just changing my screen from 1920×1080 (25'') to 2560×1440 (27'') offered such a difference, never would have believed that before! After that I felt being being back in competition somewhat. Over-simplified: using 1080p I've detected contacts from 3-5 km, 1440p now gives 5-7, with fitting light conditions up to 10 km. But why? 1080p to 1440p isn't that much a difference! Same relationship, both screens are solid hardware, same technology and calibrated the same way. But this step matters somehow enormously, heard it often during the last two years. Anyhow, it is a (the?) weak spot of the simulation - it should not matter that much!

 

Still it's no relaxed spare time now when any fly speck becomes a danger - bomber pilots are scared beings! Never before I  cleaned my screen that intense and carefully. It is a dishonourable situation to find your son standing behind you "Clean it more accurately, old man, else they get you!"

Edited by Retnek
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6 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

My native resolution is 1920x1080
Well long story short, I lowered my resolution to the next lowest size of 1680x1050 and taadaa I can see contacts perfectly fine out at distance. 

 

35 minutes ago, Retnek said:

For the contact detecting game  Just changing my screen from 1920×1080 (25'') to 2560×1440 (27'') offered such a difference, never would have believed that before! After that I felt being being back in competition somewhat. Over-simplified: using 1080p I've detected contacts from 3-5 km, 1440p now gives 5-7, with fitting light conditions up to 10 km.

 

Not wanting to start a fight here and I've got no horse in this race as I run in VR but.........

 

So who is right?  Lower screen res. or higher screen res?  It seems to me totally subjective.........

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2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

... It seems to me totally subjective.........

It is, sadly. I can't stand the effects of lowering the GPU-calculation below the technical resolution of the monitor, so no experience here. The DSR-option is much better, IF one has a CPU & GPU able to calculate twice the number of monitor-pixels and later reduce it ... nice to try, but expect 10 - 20 fps on a mid-class hardware. DSR with lower settings imho results in a more or less blurry picture again. Then I prefer to fiddle with all the parameters Geronimo present in his guide. It is an art right now, maestro! All the different hardware plus the somewhat inconsistent output of the simulator itself result in (too) many degrees of freedom.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

 

Not wanting to start a fight here and I've got no horse in this race as I run in VR but.........

 

So who is right?  Lower screen res. or higher screen res?  It seems to me totally subjective.........

 

Ya well, isnt that just the fun of the adventure as they? So results may very. Though it seems clear to many people that our native resolutions are betraying us somehow.

 

Hmm I wonder if an aspect ratio setting in the graphics menu would solve this perplexing delema.

Edited by Geronimo553

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14 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


This is with 0 antialiasing configuration.

 

Wow! That is quite remarkable then. Thank you for the clarification. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2020 at 11:44 AM, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

I really miss previous visuals, any trained eye could keep several contacts in sight while fighting, you could build a mental picture and act accordingly. 

I know the vanishing airplanes at 10km and beyond were not really nice, but if i had to choose between the two of them, hands down to previous one.

According to the Devs, nothing changed with regard to visibility within 10km, the update only affected visibility beyond 10km

 

 

Edited by SharpeXB

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

According to the Devs, nothing changed with regard to visibility within 10km, the update only affected visibility beyond 10km

 

 

Either way I cannot spot contact within 10km. Spotting outside of 10km is a bit easier but as soon as I start to close in they either disappear (especially within 2-5km) or they render in 1 pixel and I can't keep visual until very very close.

 

Rendering within 10km needs adjustment or just the way the game renders as a whole.

Edited by Legioneod
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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure if the replay viewer abides by the same rendering / LOD logic that the game itself does but for what it's worth, I made this video originally to test different settings. Specifically the difference between various anti-aliasing settings. However, I found that when a fighter, especially small fighters like the 109 are nose on, they become so small so quickly that the only way to reliably keep them from disappearing at about 1.5km was to use NVIDIA DSR at 4x. Of course that comes at a cost. Since all targets are now substantially smaller due to the increased resolution. But, at least they don't disappear. (Don't have a video of that because I can't record the downsampled image). Furthermore, it takes a hefty rig to be able to push a 4k image in this game. 

 

I think this specifically is causing a lot of issues since, often, we don't see enemies who are specifically attacking us. They are most often at a nose on aspect, which puts the attacker in an orientation where he's possibly being unreliably rendered for the defender. See the two snippets below.

 

 

 

Edit: I should mention that both videos were made fully zoomed out, ie. at maximum FOV. Again I don't know if the replay camera abides by the same rules as the "pilot" camera. 

Edited by Floppy_Sock
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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2020 at 12:51 PM, Retnek said:

For the contact detecting game  Just changing my screen from 1920×1080 (25'') to 2560×1440 (27'') offered such a difference, never would have believed that before! After that I felt being being back in competition somewhat. Over-simplified: using 1080p I've detected contacts from 3-5 km, 1440p now gives 5-7, with fitting light conditions up to 10 km. But why? 1080p to 1440p isn't that much a difference! Same relationship, both screens are solid hardware, same technology and calibrated the same way. But this step matters somehow enormously, heard it often during the last two years. Anyhow, it is a (the?) weak spot of the simulation - it should not matter that much!

 

Can you share your settings please? My experience is complete opposite than yours - switching to 24" 1080 to 27" 1440 screen made all the gauges and dials much more clear and easier to read - but spotting took a further nose dive making it more difficult than it was on 1080. Not that it was easy on that resolution & screen size, but easier to cope with due to larger pixel size.

 

I am lucky if I spot anything on 3-5 km. Especially difficult is mandatory use of normal zoom level. At wide zoom contacts are not rendered, and thus you cannot use realistic peripheral view one would have in real life.

 

(standard visibility settings)

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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Posted (edited)

Hi Thor, here it is - screen is a DELL S2716DG @ 144Hz in native resolution 1440p with a 1060 Nvidia 6GB Vram - with the settings below I'm solo at ca 110 fps. MP very much depends on server, 80 to 100 fps mostly. I bet mostly my old i5 2500K at 4.3 GHz on a P8P87 with 16 GB RAM is the main bottleneck. But all in all it's fine, there's a second 1040p-screen attached, tab-out-tab-in is no problem, a crash-to-desktop maybe once a month or so.

 

692402851_20200430GB-gr-01.thumb.jpg.ef55210c798f9e4f0813a95360528d1c.jpg

 

1172244969_20200430GBrs-01.thumb.jpg.88b5b08a3e0c259b97a5803cf6659f1e.jpg

902101654_20200430GBnv-01.jpg.4ea7dd2c5e36f6cd9e2c38acd5f66b7f.jpg

 

2120600837_20200430GBnv-02.jpg.49601d18710912e2371a1fc26c079e75.jpg

 


That's the setting for the moment. Some hints on the very personal settings , cosmetics more or less:

- AA 4x imho is a bit too much. Landscape is looking better, but contacts look more crisp with AA 2x

- Try 2x or 4x Supersampling, again the all-in-all impression is better, but the contacts loose a little bit of contour

- until a few weeks ago I had the in-game AA disabled and used the smaa-AA-option with Landscape-filter to "blurred" - for contact it was as good as it is now, but 10% less FPS
- advantages in AdaptiveSharpen or LumaSharpen very much depend on the other settings, LumaSharpen is nice to FPS

- Vibrance is useful in some situations "contact against the ground", but try "HDR" and "Curves", too
- my testbed is a quick mission with 4 x 4 fighters in dark to light skins. Let them dogfight in autopilot over land, Kuban inland first, later Stalingrad and Moskau. Gives me plenty of options to fine-tune the Reshade
 

Good luck!

Edited by Retnek
typo

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You are probably losing a bunch of frame rate with low latency mode set to "ultra". Just set it to "on" for best results. 

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3 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

You are probably losing a bunch of frame rate with low latency mode set to "ultra". Just set it to "on" for best results. 

Thanks, back to the grind ... it never ends. G-Sync might add quality, but first it adds some degrees of freedom, too. Using 1440p now I'm back at problem how to optimize settings for games usually not producing enough FPS to feed the monitors 144 Hz.

 

Again a session with:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

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