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Mig-3 Flaps - Bugged or ambiguous description?


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Here is what Han tells us about the new way the flap limiter works since July 2019

 

Flaps limitercan bhe adjusted only when flaps valve is set to "retract".

So you can move your limiter up or down only if flaps are pressed up.

 

Due to this it looks like:

 

Flaps are retracted, limiter at 0%. You want to extend flaps to 50%:

- Holding F key. Flaps are pressed up. Limiter wheel is rotating, limiter is extending gradually to 50%.

- When limiter reaching 50% you releasing F key. Limiter wheel stops, flaps valve sets to extend position, flaps are pressing down. If speed is low and flaps are not pressed bi airflow than flaps are pressing down to the 50% limit.

 

Flaps are extended and at 50% limiter. You want to extend them more to 100%:

- Holding F key. Flaps valve set to retract, flaps are pressed up. Now limiter can be adjusted, it rotates down to 100% position.

- Limiter reaching 100%, releasing F key: flaps valve set to extend, flaps are pressed down to 100% limit.

 

Flaps are extended and at 100% limiter. You want to retract them till 50%:

- Holding LShift+F key. Flaps valve set to retract, flaps are pressed up. Limiter rotating up to 50% position.

- Limiter reaching 50%, releasing LShift+F key: flaps valve set to extend, flaps are pressed sown to 50% limit.

 

So once again - while at real plane the operations with flaps limiter wheel were prohibited while flaps are not pressed up - this kind of flaps operation algorythm is valid.

 

My problems is that

 

1) It makes no difference whether you hold the 'Retract' key or not.

2) The way it now works makes no sense and is actually very dangerous so I find it hard to believe the Mig-3 designers made a special effort to build such a system.   If your research shows they really did then I apologise and will accept it was just one of those crazy wartime mistakes but can you please first watch the following 40 second video to see if there is a bug or if I am misunderstanding how to use it.

 

https://youtu.be/1CXzORxii2E

 

If that is the intended operation then it means that a person on Finals with half flap who realises he needs full flaps quickly will see the flaps fully retract to 0% just when he needs *more* flaps then suddenly drop to 100% probably causing a stall.   Similarly in a fight you are riding the edge of a stall in a turn and decide that adding 20% flaps will help you turn tight but you get no flaps at all then suddenly get all 20% in one go and likely stall.

 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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I was actually about to make a similar post but decided to search first and found this.

 

My biggest issue is that you can't set it in a way that you can go back and fourth between closed and 100% open flaps without spending a minute to move the wheel all the way from 100% to 0%

 

It used to work perfectly fine, so I don't see why they changed it... I can understand maybe if there was a historical inaccuracy to the system, but now it has it's own unique problems. 

 

I can't imagine that it was like this in real life, because in the sim, it automatically puts the flap controls lever back to the open position, when in real life you wouldn't be forced to do that, you could just leave it in the neutral position after you closed them (which it now only does if you have the limiter at the 0% position).

 

It would be good if you could set an independent control for flap limiters.  That way, just like in real life, you can control the flap limiter wheel completely separately from the flap control lever.

 

The whole point of the system is to be able to just hit flaps up and down with one quick move, and independent of that, limit how far the flaps go down so that you could have them ready incase you like to use a small amount of flaps for dogfighting, but now, it's pretty much the worst flaps system in the sim.

 

I completely understand if you can only adjust the flaps limiter when the flaps are closed (if this was the case in real life... maybe you could only go in one direction while they were lowered; e.g. a lower position but not a higher position?).

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

As described in this topic as well:

It's still like this in 4.006.

Specifically: retracting the flaps does not work.

 

Steps to repro:

1. Set limiter to desired value

2. Release flaps

3. Retract flaps - notice that they do not retract, you have to hold and press the retract key effectively setting the limiter to 0 for them to retract.

 

This was how it used to work (without the added automatic step that the 4.x patches brought which causes the flaps to retract automatically, adjust and redeploy - but now the non-retraction of flaps is obviously bugged):

 

Edited by Firdimigdi
clarification - steps to repro - video of previous functionality
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As of ver 4.006e, not new to this version though

 

Steps to reproduce:

1. Press and hold flap release until you set flap limiter to 50% - observe that flaps are immediately released

2. Attempt to retract flaps - observe that flaps are not retracted unless the retract flaps button is held and the limiter is set to 0%

 

Expected behaviour:

1. Press and hold flap release until flap limiter set to x%, flaps do not auto release

2. Press release flaps and flaps release

3. Press retract flaps and flaps should retract - releasing them subsequently should release them to the angle set by the limiter

 

This thread is a more specific description of the issue mentioned a previous thread:

 

Edited by Firdimigdi
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is still the case with 4.007 - the reasoning for this report is that in the cockpit there are two controls: the flap valve and the flap limiter. I am fairly certain those should work independently of each other. The flap valve should control when the flaps are extended/retracted and the limiter should control their max angle. Right now they operate as if they are one control and the valve is not controlled: you cannot retract without setting the limiter to 0.

Edited by Firdimigdi
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  • 5 months later...
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Good thing I've found this topic instead of starting a new thread.

I just started a new Mig-3 career with the BoM, and this is very frustrating not being able to use the flaps in combat. Flaps just won't stay retracted if any limiter >0% is used.

Is there at least some workaround for it?

I am really enjoying the beast but not being able to drop the flaps in flight should be addressed.

Thanks.

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On 11/29/2020 at 4:16 PM, ktriggerk0ld said:

Good thing I've found this topic instead of starting a new thread.

I just started a new Mig-3 career with the BoM, and this is very frustrating not being able to use the flaps in combat. Flaps just won't stay retracted if any limiter >0% is used.

Is there at least some workaround for it?

I am really enjoying the beast but not being able to drop the flaps in flight should be addressed.

Thanks.

 

Not yet, but hopefully soon!  A while ago you used to be able to open and close them at any point it was set at, but apparently something about that wasn't historically realistic, so they changed it, but unfortunately the new way is just worse and still historically incorrect.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I decided to give the MiG more of a go today. I had previously only started, taken off, done a circuit and then landed a few times. But I now find the flaps really confusing and found this thread. I'm not sure about historically correct, but I think I'll put the MiG back in the box until something is done to rationalize the flap system. They seem to be unsuited for use in combat. If that's the way they were, then I guess I can leave it in the box, but I hope it is something that can be changed to work in combat as the plane is a looker.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just tried the flaps, have a squad mission coming up and have to fly the MiG, but can set the flap limiter. Basically you have to operate them like a BF109 only when you're raising and lowering the flaps, they are in the retracted position. Let go of the button, flaps drop to what you have them set to, or up if you raise them. But always retracted while adjusting them up/down. 

 

 

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On 1/19/2021 at 2:34 AM, WWDriftwood said:

Just tried the flaps, have a squad mission coming up and have to fly the MiG, but can set the flap limiter. Basically you have to operate them like a BF109 only when you're raising and lowering the flaps, they are in the retracted position. Let go of the button, flaps drop to what you have them set to, or up if you raise them. But always retracted while adjusting them up/down. 

 

 

 

 

yep... clearly not historical.

 

I'm REALLY hoping the devs will take a look at this.  About 7 months ago they said they would.  I hope they remember.  Either way I have faith that they will fix them eventually; they are always fixing things from planes that were originally developed a long time ago.

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/20/2021 at 3:43 AM, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

I'm REALLY hoping the devs will take a look at this.  About 7 months ago they said they would.  I hope they remember.  Either way I have faith that they will fix them eventually; they are always fixing things from planes that were originally developed a long time ago.

 

I wish this would be fixed, haven't heard anything other than the comment above 8 months ago... 

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