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eastriverman

Help needed with campaigns Caucase, Belgorod, and Kpursk43

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Posted (edited)

Greetings, tankers!

 

I'd like to ask for some help with 3 of the scripted campaigns published here, namely the Causcase, the Belgorod, and the Koursk43 campaign.

 

First, without looking into the campaign files, it was hard to understand the mission objectives with the german localization of the game, since there are only mission briefings in english and french.

 

The *.ger mission briefings were not in german but in french.

 

I made copies of the *.eng files in another folder, renaming them to *.ger and copied these files back to the campaign folder.

 

In the same way I generated a "info.locale=ger.txt" file in the campaign folder.

 

Though the mission objectives were now somewhat more understandable I got stuck in all of the 3 campaigns at different points.

 

Caucase:

 

In mission 2 the goal is to destroy all tanks and anti-tank guns in the area of "refinery A".

I did so and found out that there was a "hidden" trigger for a second part in the mission. The second Tiger stops in the first part and only when I drive nearby it moves further to the center of the refinery to the vicinity of the crane. This triggers the appearance of two additional ZIS-3 guns and some machine guns.

After destroying these targets the area is "clean" but the mission does not end.

Also, another "reunion" with the second tiger does not trigger the end of the mission.

I searched the whole area several times for hidden stragglers but found nothing.

So, any clue for me how to get out of this?

 

Belgorod:

In mission 5 one has to report to the commander at the crossing first who then orders us to accompain some T4s to seal a breakthrough of soviet tank forces.

The T4s advance blindly and run into the russians at a hill crest being blasted by soviet T-34s. Next time I managed to get ahead of the T4s and blasted the soviets instead.

Together with the remaining T4s I advance to a road crossing after wiping off the map some fleeing T-34s. The T4s stop then at the fork of the roadroad where the mission path (red line) ends. Again, the mission does not end though the whole map is empty. No enemies, no villages, no bridges, and no town of Belgorod.

 

So, what I am expected to do here in order to finish successfully?

 

BTW: There's another glitch in the mission. Though I'm absolutely sure that I was shooting only at soviet tanks, at some point of the battle I'm always confronted with a message saying that I get a penalty for firing at friendly units.

 

Koursk43:

In mission 3 (Prokhorovka) the goal is pretty simple. Destroy hordes of soviet tanks which attack in several waves. With a lot of training I managed to destroy ALL of the attackers with the help of the friendly AI tank force. Here, too, the mission does not end after that. And that's not due to too many losses. So, what's wrong here?

 

All of the above campaigns were made by the same author, but that doesn't seem to be the problem since the newest versions of Narwa43 and Prokhorovka campaigns from the same author work fine.

 

A big "thank you" in advance for any help given.

 

best regards
eastriverman

 

 

Edited by eastriverman
Updated Campaigns Belgorod & Caucase

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9 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

tu te rend compte de ce que tu écris ? les dernières versions des autres campagnes fonctionnent bien? tu es entrain d'insinuer que les premières versions fonctionnaient mal? je ne savais pas que c'était toi le vrai concepteur des campagnes que j'ai fabriqué? tu connais mieux que moi la raison des mises à jour que j'ai effectué sans doute ?  à un moment donné il faut arrêter de dire des conneries... de propager publiquement  des mensonges comme ça..

 


do you realize what you write? the latest versions of other campaigns work well? Are you suggesting that the first versions worked badly? I didn't know that you were the real designer of the campaigns I made? you know better than me the reason for the updates which I carried out undoubtedly? at some point you have to stop saying bullshit ... to publicly spread lies like that

 

You are very much over reacting. This guy asks some question and has some problems. I can not see any insulting or complaining. If you dont want to get your stuff be questioned dont share it.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

Belgorod mission5  panzers4 are not blind, they advance very well in a straight line and get into combat formation and fight back when they are attacked.

To complete this mission you simply have to destroy the T70 tanks which are fleeing.  there is actually no belgorod nor city, nor bridge..... at any time it was indicated in the briefing that we had to go to Belgorod.

you just have to go to a crossing to intercept enemies.

Yyyyyyeah, about that -i did try to finish that mission few times. I did intercept all of the soviet tanks and the mission did not end. Dunno what i'm doing wrong.

Edited by Goosevich

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Same here. I tried driving on the back road straight to the T70's - killed them but still mission not completed.

 

Tigre88: This isn't a complaint just an observation. I have all your missions and find them excellent. Thanks for the hard work you put into them. It's appreciated.

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Bonjour la compagnie,

N'oublions pas que nous avons la chance d'avoir quelques concepteurs, dont un prolifique, qui mettent gracieusement à notre disposition des "missions/campagnes". Je pense qu'à ce titre, ils méritent tout notre respect et notre gratitude. Maintenant, lorsqu'un problème survient dans telle ou telle mission/campagne, pourquoi ne pas envoyé directement un mail au concepteur qui sera plus à même de nous répondre plus en détail et je suis convaincu que cette démarche sera plus appréciée et peut permettre de créé des liens entre utilisateurs et concepteurs.

Je pense que nous avons tous à y gagner plutôt qu'à nous déchirer en de vaines esclandres

Bien à vous...

 

Hello company,

Let us not forget that we are fortunate to have a few designers, including one prolific, who graciously provide us with "missions / campaigns". I think that as such, they deserve all our respect and gratitude. Now, when a problem arises in such or such mission / campaign, why not send an email directly to the designer who will be more able to answer us in more detail and I am convinced that this approach will be more appreciated and can allow to create links between users and designers.

I think we all have to gain from it rather than tearing ourselves apart

Yours ...

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40 minutes ago, jossstriker67 said:

Bonjour la compagnie,

N'oublions pas que nous avons la chance d'avoir quelques concepteurs, dont un prolifique, qui mettent gracieusement à notre disposition des "missions/campagnes". Je pense qu'à ce titre, ils méritent tout notre respect et notre gratitude. Maintenant, lorsqu'un problème survient dans telle ou telle mission/campagne, pourquoi ne pas envoyé directement un mail au concepteur qui sera plus à même de nous répondre plus en détail et je suis convaincu que cette démarche sera plus appréciée et peut permettre de créé des liens entre utilisateurs et concepteurs.

Je pense que nous avons tous à y gagner plutôt qu'à nous déchirer en de vaines esclandres

Bien à vous...

 

Hello company,

Let us not forget that we are fortunate to have a few designers, including one prolific, who graciously provide us with "missions / campaigns". I think that as such, they deserve all our respect and gratitude. Now, when a problem arises in such or such mission / campaign, why not send an email directly to the designer who will be more able to answer us in more detail and I am convinced that this approach will be more appreciated and can allow to create links between users and designers.

I think we all have to gain from it rather than tearing ourselves apart

Yours ...

 

Correct, but where did anyone tearing another one apart? E-Mail is not an up to date medium. As you can see several player have similar problems, so a forum is the best way. As a programmer i would not like to answer dozens of mails. In a forum the player can help each other. And all were very kind in asking. I dont understand the problem here. I think the mission builder misunderstood the OP as criticism.

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Bonjour,

Il est évident qu'un concepteur ne peut répondre à tout le monde si le fruit de son travail est destiné à un grand voir un très grand nombre d'utilisateur, mais je pense que les missions qui sont postées sur le forum ne s'adressent  qu'à quelques dizaines d'intéressés. Le fait qu'un joueur s'adresse à un concepteur pour lui faire part de ses difficultés peuvent également amener ce dernier à faire une diffusion générale sur le forum. Il est évident néanmoins que le forum est un outils indispensable de communication.

Le fond de tout cela est qu'il ne faut surtout pas oublier d'être reconnaissant du bénévolat des concepteurs pour leur excellent travail qu'ils fournissent gratuitement et d'être un peu plus tolérant dans nos attitudes. Notre communauté de simmers n'en sortira que plus grande.

Respectueusement.

 

Hello,

It is obvious that a designer cannot answer everyone if the fruit of his work is intended for a large see a very large number of users, but I think that the missions which are posted on the forum are not intended only a few dozen interested. The fact that a player addresses a designer to tell him of his difficulties can also lead the latter to make a general distribution on the forum. It is obvious, however, that the forum is an essential communication tool.

The bottom line is that we must not forget to be thankful for the volunteers of the designers for their excellent work which they provide free of charge and to be a little more tolerant in our attitudes. Our community of simmers will only get bigger.

Respectfully.

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1 hour ago, TIGRE88 said:

la chose que je ne tolère pas sont les critiques infondées et abusives, du genre : tes panzers sont aveugles , et je trouve ni village ni pont ni rien.  il faut éviter de s'enflammer comme ça publiquement , alors qu'il aurait suffit de me demander tout simplement une solution en privé. ou alors le faire en public mais toujours avec respect.  si je lis un message qui donne l'impression que j'ai vendu à prix élevé un jeu qui ne fonctionne pas et que je me fais incendier pour ça, la ça ne me plait pas .   et je constate que les gens se mettent à me juger sur le fait que je m'énerve au lieu d'aider les gens pour leur problèmes... demande à tous ceux qui m'ont fait des remarques et suggestions ,j'ai répondu aux besoins de toutes ces personnes, on m'a demandé à ce que les carcasses de chars ne disparaissent plus, je l'ai fait, on m'a demandé à avoir un panther dans le jeu, je l'ai fait, on m'a demandé des chars russes, j'ai fabriqué une campagne entière pour faire plaisir à un joueur, on m'a signalé des bugs, je les ai corrigé, le tout à une vitesse éclair.  je suis plus réactif et plus rapide qu'une entreprise de création de jeux..  mais après ça il y a des gens mal éduqués, qui ne disent ni bonjour ni merci ni aurevoir et qui se permettent d'affirmer des choses fausses sur ma personne. car c'est plus facile derrière un écran, comme ça c'est évidement plus facile.   il ya des régles à respecter si on veut avoir ma sympathie, déja dire bonjour , ce qui est la moindre des choses, surtout quand on ne me connait pas et qu'on vient me parler pour la première fois et ne pas commencer à déblatérer des problèmes publiquement concernant mon travail comme si j'avais arnaqué financièrement quelqu'un.  un minimum de respect .    

 

les messages du genre : heu.. ouais d'accord.. tu pourrais préciser quand tu poste une missions qu'elle est faite dans tel module par ce que tout le monde n'a pas ce module ..  d'ja je ne suis pas ta mère pour que tu me parle comme ça..  c’est aussi simple que ça.  

 


the thing that i don't tolerate is unfounded and abusive criticism, like: your panzers are blind, and i find neither village nor bridge nor anything. 
you should avoid igniting like that publicly, when it would have been enough to simply ask me for a solution in private. 
or do it in public but always with respect. if I read a message that gives the impression that I sold a game that does not work for a high price and that I am set on fire for that,
 I do not like it. and I notice that people start to judge me on the fact that I get angry instead of helping people for their problems 
... ask all those who have made comments and suggestions, I replied to the needs of all these people,
 I was asked that the carcasses of tanks no longer disappear, I did, I was asked to have a panther in the game, I did, we asked Russian tanks,
 I made an entire campaign to please a player.  
, they reported bugs to me, I fixed them, all at lightning speed. I am more responsive and faster than a game creation company ..
 but after that there are badly educated people, who say neither hello, thank you or goodbye and who allow themselves to assert false things about me .
 because it's easier behind a screen, so it's obviously easier. there are rules to respect if you want to have my sympathy,
 already say hello, which is the least of things, especially when you do not know me and come to speak to me for the first time
 and not to start talking public problems with my work as if I had scammed someone financially. a minimum of respect.

 

messages like: uh .. yeah okay .. you could specify when you post a mission that it is done in such module because everyone does not have this module .. i already am not your mother so that you speak to me like that .. it's as simple as that.

 

 

The OP was very kind. It may be that you are talented designer but, in fact you did understand all wrong in OP. OP greeted you, he was kind, the said "thank you" and so on. He did nothing you blamed him. Everyone can read that, except you.

 

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Posted (edited)

Can someone translate everything to french? His hissyfits are getting tiresome, and we need solutions. I guess he misunderstoods everything/lost in translation.

Edited by Goosevich

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Bonjour,
Je pense qu'une des raison de certains malentendus proviennent aussi que pour une personne qui ne parle pratiquement pas l'anglais et qui doit de ce fait avoir recourt obligatoirement à un traducteur, style Google ou autre,  donne le rendu d'une traduction n'est pas forçément la plus juste quant à son interprétation et de ce fait génère probablement des quiproquos.
Sans jouer au moraliste, il faut bien convenir que pour nous, simmers, il n'en reste pas moins vrai que ces missions agrémentent indéniablement T.C. et qu'il convient de saluer comme il se doit leur bénévolat et donc accepter que parfois une petite imperfection puisse se glisser dans leur travail et qu'en ayant eu connaissance par une note sympathique, ils aient à coeur de remédier à ces petits désagréments pour notre plus grand bonheur.
Bien cordialement.

 

Hello,
I think that one of the reason for some misunderstandings also comes from the fact that for a person who practically does not speak English and who must therefore have recourse to a translator, Google style or other, gives the rendering of a translation n is not necessarily the fairest as to its interpretation and therefore probably generates misunderstandings.
Without playing the moralist, it must be admitted that for us, simmers, it remains nonetheless true that these missions undeniably embellish TC and that it is appropriate to salute their volunteering as it should and therefore accept that sometimes a small imperfection can slip into their work and that by having knowledge through a sympathetic note, they have at heart to remedy these small inconveniences for our greatest happiness.
Best regards.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

TIGRE88: "on m'a demandé des chars russes, j'ai fabriqué une campagne entière pour faire plaisir à un joueur."

Je peux confirmer car je suis le joueur qui préfère les chars Russes et Tigre88 à eu la gentillesse de me faire plaisir alors qu'il n'était en rien obligé de le faire et je l'en remercie grandement.

 

En toute communication il y a le fond et la forme et vue que les concepteurs de missions, campagnes, mods et skins sont tous des bénévoles qui ne font que partager leurs passions, qu'on aime où pas leur travail, le minimum est de les respecter par une communication courtoise et constructive. Il en va de l'intérêt de la communauté d'IL2 Great Battles en général et de Tank Crew en particulier, qui ne survit essentiellement que par la poignée de créateurs et de joueurs de ce forum. Laissons la polémique derrière nous et faisons preuve d'un peu plus de solidarité. ( par les temps qui courent c'est la moindre des choses ^^).

 

I can confirm because I'm the player who prefers Russian and Tiger88 tanks to have the kindness to please me when he had no obligation to do so and I thank him very much for that.


In all communication there is the substance and the form and given that the designers of missions, campaigns, mods and skins are all volunteers who only share their passions, that we like or not their work, the minimum is to respect them through a courteous and constructive communication. This is in the interest of the IL2 Great Battles community in general and Tank Crew in particular, which essentially survives only by the handful of creators and players on this forum. Let's put the controversy behind us and show a little more solidarity. ( these days it's the least we can do ^^).

 

Ich kann das bestätigen, weil ich der Spieler bin, der russische und Tiger88-Panzer bevorzugt, um die Freundlichkeit zu haben, mir zu gefallen, als er dazu nicht verpflichtet war, und dafür danke ich ihm sehr.


In jeder Kommunikation gibt es den Inhalt und die Form, und angesichts der Tatsache, dass die Designer von Missionen, Kampagnen, Mods und Skins allesamt Freiwillige sind, die nur ihre Leidenschaften teilen, ob uns ihre Arbeit gefällt oder nicht, besteht das Minimum darin, sie durch eine höfliche und konstruktive Kommunikation zu respektieren. Dies liegt im Interesse der IL2-Großschlachtengemeinschaft im Allgemeinen und der Panzerbesatzung im Besonderen, die im Wesentlichen nur von der Handvoll von Schöpfern und Spielern in diesem Forum überlebt. Lassen wir die Kontroverse hinter uns und zeigen wir ein wenig mehr Solidarität. ( heutzutage ist es das Mindeste, was wir tun können ^^).

 

Puedo confirmarlo porque soy el jugador que prefiere que los tanques rusos y Tiger88 tengan la amabilidad de complacerme cuando no tenía obligación de hacerlo y le agradezco mucho por ello.


En toda comunicación existe el fondo y la forma y dado que los diseñadores de misiones, campañas, mods y skins son todos voluntarios que sólo comparten sus pasiones, que nos gusta o no su trabajo, lo mínimo es respetarlos a través de una comunicación cortés y constructiva. Esto es de interés para la comunidad de IL2 Great Battles en general y para la Tank Crew en particular, que esencialmente sólo sobrevive por el puñado de creadores y jugadores de este foro. Dejemos la controversia atrás y mostremos un poco más de solidaridad. ( en estos días es lo menos que podemos hacer ^^).

 

Я могу подтвердить, потому что я игрок, который предпочитает русские и Tiger88 танки, чтобы иметь доброту, чтобы угодить мне, когда у него не было обязательств, и я очень благодарен ему за это.


Во всем общении есть суть и форма, а учитывая, что дизайнеры миссий, кампаний, моды и шкуры - это все добровольцы, которые только разделяют свои страсти, что нам нравится или не нравится их работа, минимум - это уважение к ним через вежливое и конструктивное общение. Это в интересах сообщества IL2 Great Battles в целом и Tank Crew в частности, которое, по сути, выживает только благодаря горстке создателей и игроков на этом форуме. Давайте оставим разногласия позади и проявим немного больше солидарности. ( в наши дни это меньшее, что мы можем сделать ^^).

 

 

Ne pas oublier non plus le contexte actuel, le monde est confiné depuis des semaines, les gens peuvent être stressés et surtout fatigués ( concevoir autant de missions et campagnes réclame beaucoup d'investissement temps et d'énergie ) et comme l'a souligné "Josstriker67", nous n'avons pas tous la même langue maternelle et ne maîtrisons pas forcément l'anglais. Pour ma part je ne suis pas doué dans la langue de Shakespeare ( ni d"en aucune autre mis à part l'italien ^^ ) alors j'utilise un logiciel en ligne " DeepL Traducteur" que je trouve bien plus efficace que celui de Google.

 

https://www.deepl.com/fr/translator

 

Nor should we forget the current context, the world has been confined for weeks, people can be stressed and above all tired (designing so many missions and campaigns requires a lot of time and energy) and, as Josstriker67 pointed out, we do not all have the same mother tongue and do not necessarily master English. For my part, I am not gifted in Shakespeare's language ( nor in any other language apart from Italian ^^ ) so I use an online software " DeepL Translator" that I find much more efficient than Google's one.

 

Edited by Aliocha62Mordreddesurmia
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On 4/17/2020 at 2:42 PM, JG27_Steini said:

 

The OP was very kind. It may be that you are talented designer but, in fact you did understand all wrong in OP. OP greeted you, he was kind, the said "thank you" and so on. He did nothing you blamed him. Everyone can read that, except you.

 

Greetings Steini and all the tankers around,

 

when I read Tigre's "answer"  I really thought I was "in the wrong movie" and found that it wasn't worth any answer.

 

Fact is that I appreciate the work of mission/campaign builders as much as the other members in this forum.

 

Actually, I liked his campaigns and his latest campaign "panzerdivision" shows a major impovement in mission design compared to the missions in the preceding campaigns which were already pretty good.

 

So, from my side I assume a major misunderstanding due to language problems. May the past rest in peace and let's look into the future without anger.

 

Meanwhile I found at least a solution for the problem with the Prokhorovka mission and my findings might be interesting for those who are interested in the history of the Kursk campaign:

 

Tigre's history lesson about Prokhorovka is based on myths created in several books written by russian authors during the 1960s.

 

However, recent historical research based on original sources (war diaries, after-Battle reports, loss reports etc.), taken from german as well from russian archives, create a complete different picture.

 

Here is a link to a talk about Prokhorovka given by a professional historian:

 

 

The talk is in german but that guy also wrote a book of which several translations are available:

 

https://www.amazon.de/Kursk-1943-Weltkriegs-Schlachten-Weltgeschichte-ebook/dp/B07JN4RJMJ/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=roman+töppel+kursk+deutsch&qid=1587152159&sr=8-1


https://www.amazon.de/Koursk-1943-bataille-Seconde-mondiale/dp/2262071217/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=roman+töppel+kursk+french&qid=1587152135&sr=8-1-fkmr0


https://www.amazon.de/Kursk-1943-Greatest-Military-History/dp/1912390035

 

In Short:

 

Prokhorovka was a disaster for the russians. After 196 of their tanks were completely destroyed and another 200 immobilized with different degrees of damage, they had to withdraw from the battlefield. The germans lost only 5 tanks and among them was not a single Tiger.

 

Prokhorovka was by no means decisive for the final outcome of operation citadel.

 

It was the soviet counterattack aimed at the city of Orel (operation Kutusov) that forced the germans to disrupt their attacks and to fight a series of defensive battles.

 

Found the book to be very informative, full of valuable detail info, good stuff.

 

If Tigre's campaign is meant to be a historical accurate recreation of the tank actions during the Kursk campaign, can the Prokhorovka mission then be changed to end with a german victory?

 

Until this happens I will do my best to loose the mission in order to proceed in the campaign 😀

 

 

best regards

eastriverman

 

 

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C'est à la fin du bal qu'on paye l'orchestre...
Pour ma part ce que je retiens de plus important c'est pas le résultat d'une bataille mais qu'au final c'est les soviétiques qui sont entrés dans Berlin et non les Allemands dans Moscou, avec ou sans Tigre. Sur le long terme les Allemands ne pouvaient pas gagner cette guerre.

 

Certes les Allemands étaient tactiquement supérieurs à la plupart de leurs adversaires, mais trop limités dans leurs visions stratégiques et opératiques, de plus ils ont beaucoup trop sous estimé les capacités de résilience et d'adaptation de l'Union Soviétique et pas retenu les leçons de l'Histoire.

 

On envahi pas le plus grand pays de la planète avec une logistique aussi déficiente et un climat aussi austère. Ceci est un exemple parmi tant d'autres raisons qui expliquent le résultat final.
Je vous conseille de lire " Opération Barbarossa " de Jean Lopez ( une bible de près de 1000 pages sur un des tournants de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale 😞

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzwdkjpQiWQ

 

Ceci dit, pour en revenir à cet épisode de l'opération citadelle, il est toujours de bonne guerre ( sans mauvais jeu de mots ) pour chaque camp de faire de la propagande en maquillant les faits dans le but de maintenir le moral d'un peuple et  permettre de garder ou générer une dynamique, cela a toujours été ainsi et cela construit parfois des mythes. Mais le temps et les recherches historiques rétablissent certaines vérités sur les détails, mais les faits sont têtus et demeurent, le résultats de cette horrible période et bien la défaite du III ième Reich et surtout la mort de dizaines de millions de nos frères humains.

 

It's at the end of the ball that we pay the orchestra...
For my part, what I remember most important is not the result of a battle but that in the end it was the Soviets who entered Berlin and not the Germans in Moscow, with or without the Tiger. In the long run the Germans could not win this war.

 

Certainly the Germans were tactically superior to most of their opponents, but too limited in their strategic and operational visions, moreover they underestimated too much the resilience and adaptability of the Soviet Union and did not learn the lessons of history.

 

They did not invade the largest country on the planet with such poor logistics and such an austere climate. This is just one example of the many reasons that explain the end result.
I advise you to read "Operation Barbarossa" by Jean Lopez (a bible of almost 1000 pages on one of the turning points of the Second World War).

 

That said, to come back to this episode of Operation Citadel, it is always fair game (no pun intended) for each side to make propaganda by disguising the facts in order to maintain the morale of a people and keep or generate a dynamic, it has always been so and it sometimes builds myths. But time and historical research re-establish certain truths on the details, but the facts are stubborn and remain, the result of this horrible period and well the defeat of the Third Reich and especially the death of many tens of millions of our human brothers.

 

 

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Hi Aliocha,

 

thanks for your remarks which I agree to.

 

Perhaps there is a little misunderstanding about why I mentioned those details.

 

I've read many publications about the two biggest catastrophies of mankind in the 20th century, namely the first and second world war.

 

Having lost a lot of my relatives in WW2 and truly believing in the wisdom of the ancient greek statement "if you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat history" I always wanted to understand the failures in politics that lead to these wars and how this escalated during the wars itself.

 

Unfortunately, on top of being the most horrifying war of all times, WW2 also was a propaganda war which makes the work of historians pretty diffcult. Many propaganda legends, created by any of the countries that participated in WW2, found their way into history books.

 

Regarding the war between Nazi germany and soviet Russia, any publication before 1991 should be read with a critical mind and this true for russian AND german publications as well. It was russian president Gorbatchev who opened die russian WW2 military archives for researchers from foreign countries in 1991 and they turned out to be a treasure chest.

 

Especially many details of the history of operation citadel turned out to be "legends" spread by russians and germans as well.

 

For example the german excuses for their failure: "It was all Hitler's fault" and "the russians knew all the details of citadel from a high-ranking german traitor months before the battle" .

 

In short: Bullshit.

 

The reason why I like Töppels book so much is that it is to my knowledge the most recent one about this topic and because Töppel simply made a proper job by acting like a good reporter who verifies every fact in his story by at least two independent sources. This is reflected in his book by many hundred references to original sources.

 

And there's another reason: I hate propaganda, it's evil lying 😬

 

Though being a german, Töppel provides a neutral picture of the course of the battles with sometimes surprising insights. It turned out that the russian defenders  not only fought with great bravery but sometimes also showed excellent tactical skills while some german commanders were pretty incompetent.

 

Of course, the big picture remains unchanged. Barbarossa was the brainchild of racist psychopaths suffering from megalomania and was doomed to be a failure right from the start in spite of the initial success in 1941.

 

The should have learned from the failures of Napolean and the swedish king.........

 

Talking about bibles: A bible about "Barbarossa" written with the some detail and  accuracy like Töppel's book will have 10.000 or more pages and that's not going to happen.

 

I admit, after reading Töppel's book, my expectations for the Prokhorovka mission in the Koursk campaign were probably too high.

 

Knowing that now, I managed to "loose" and to proceed in the campaign, Huraaah 😀

 

Sadly, my problems with the missions in the other campaigns persist.

 

best regards

eastriverman

 

 

 

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