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Game version 4.005 discussion: New airframe damage model


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2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

No, there is no concrete plan or promise to change the damage textures. I have only said I will try.

 

Jason

 

In my personal opinion - and some may disagree (I might even take flak)... it isn't really a priority. The improvements to when the existing damage textures show is really noticeable and feels like enough.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mad-Moses said:

I only down planes (on the spot) by deflection shots into the canopy area killing the pilot. Reviewing the stats I did wound one from behind... there's that moment when they stop maneuvering and you thinking "Is he dead?... should I pull off?" then they wake up and start jinking again.

 

I had a similar experience in an I-16 (4x7.62mm rather than 6x12.7mm)... damage when shooting from behind was unpredictable... sometimes the bomber would gradually lose control sometimes it wouldn't... and the lack of ailerons detaching meant that it was hard to tell (as the damage is modelled internally now... which is more correct).

 

However, I could get kills more reliably and with less ammunition if I side slipped and shot into the pilot compartment from the side... this requires me to really use my skills to the max though.

 

10 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Hitting at convergence is very very important with .50s, you want as much firepower on one point as possible, peppering the aircraft flap with 100 hits isnt going to bring it down.

Reality is sometimes a little less dramatic/exciting as fiction, imo this shows in the update. .50s are much closer to reality than you might want.

 

Yeah, that was my thought too - checking the convergence might help... and it is probably quite realistic (fits with pilot reports). Just be glad you aren't in a Mig-3 (1x12.7mm, 2x7.62mm) ;)

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Jason_Williams
21 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Devs and Testers went over this again and again in the beta. .50s just aren't as damaging to aircraft as you might think (structurally anyways). .50s are good at damaging internals and pilots but this damage usually isn't visible to the player doing the shooting. Another thing to remember is that you could be shooting the aircraft but missing vital internals like wing spars, control rods, fuel/oil/coolant, etc. so while it might look like it's taking too many hits in reality you just arent hitting the vitals.

 

Hitting at convergence is very very important with .50s, you want as much firepower on one point as possible, peppering the aircraft flap with 100 hits isnt going to bring it down.

Reality is sometimes a little less dramatic/exciting as fiction, imo this shows in the update. .50s are much closer to reality than you might want.

 

 

 

In the Mustang you have 6 .50 cals. shooting at once. 90 rounds landing on target is about 1 - 1.25 seconds worth of shooting. Seems reasonable. 64 shots is less than a second of shooting. Even less so in the Jug. America just had a different philosophy of how to damage enemy planes. Still gets the job done as history and our sim shows.

 

Jason

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Congratulations on the awesome new damage model - it is a whole new experience.

 

The Il-2 shrugs off most hits below 20mm now, it is really awesome.

I managed to fly with a half folded wing, hit by flak (20mm) or a tree  (I don't remember, I was flying really low)

Had to push the stick fully to the left and belly-landed in the field up front - I did not want to try out any further maneuvers to not rip off the wing

 

20200409134619_1.thumb.jpg.95db53093c3b5a7ced43e18f439a9132.jpg20200409134650_1.thumb.jpg.5e050c134cf55e25b9349f2802e2e199.jpg

 

Thanks again to the complete dev team for this impressive update.

 

Best regards

Rieper

Edited by rieper_420
typo
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15 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

In the Mustang you have 6 .50 cals. shooting at once. 90 rounds landing on target is about 1 - 1.25 seconds worth of shooting. Seems reasonable. 64 shots is less than a second of shooting. Even less so in the Jug. America just had a different philosophy of how to damage enemy planes. Still gets the job done as history and our sim shows.

 

Jason

Agreed. Imo .50s are more realistic in this update and it's great. Gonna take some time to get used to though for players who are expecting it to perform like cannons or mg131.

Great work dev team.

 

One thing I would like to see in the future for American aircraft is harmonization patterns and desynchronized guns. Having the ability to do a shotgun harmonization pattern (top pattern) would be much better than the point harmonization that we currently have (bottom pattern)

 

P-47_gun_harmonization_-_two_types.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Devs and Testers went over this again and again in the beta. .50s just aren't as damaging to aircraft as you might think (structurally anyways). .50s are good at damaging internals and pilots but this damage usually isn't visible to the player doing the shooting. Another thing to remember is that you could be shooting the aircraft but missing vital internals like wing spars, control rods, fuel/oil/coolant, etc. so while it might look like it's taking too many hits in reality you just arent hitting the vitals.

 

Hitting at convergence is very very important with .50s, you want as much firepower on one point as possible, peppering the aircraft flap with 100 hits isnt going to bring it down.

Reality is sometimes a little less dramatic/exciting as fiction, imo this shows in the update. .50s are much closer to reality than you might want.

 

 

I understand.

 

A WWII era aircraft is just a series of light weight rigid aluminum spars (sometimes wood) covered in paper thing sheet aluminum (sometimes combination of wood or fabric) strapped to a massive aluminum block engine... add heaps of explosive munitions, combustible fuel, oil and hydrophilic fluid (Germans used more electric) hopefully some armor protection for the pilot, which was often removed for improved performance.

 

An AP round would go straight through all of that stuff. I understand that probably 50% of the aircraft is just hollow space aluminum or fabric... especially on a 109 or 190, would just pass though, maybe leave some tearing and de-lamination especially on exit inturn causing some aero drag and instability. The kinetic energy of it passing through harder objects like a engine cylinder/crank area would be devastating most times. Add ammo stores to that and sometimes fuel tanks would explode as the round passed through.

 

For the 109 & 190 a few well placed rounds should do the trick... from the wing roots through the cockpit/fuel tanks firewall/ammunition storage to the engine... add the cannon ammunition storage in the wings of a 190... one good round there and the wing will just explode. The P-51 has even more week points with fuel and ammunition in the wings and combustible hydrophilic fluid.

 

You see these things happen clearly on gun camera footage on both sides and the first hand accounts of pilots.

 

In closing, not sure how well it's all modeled, like my initial post says it's just a microcosm to this point.. I will stick to my point that a few well placed rounds should take down any aircraft of this era pretty rapidly.

 

Regards,

Mad-Moses

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2 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

It should, but please take a look at the second screenshot he attached and the path of the fluids the plane leaks. The fligth path just folds.

 are u sure the path of the fluids is correctly modelled? i wouldn't count on that.

But then again, I have been wrong before...

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1 minute ago, Mad-Moses said:

In closing, not sure how well it's all modeled, like my initial post says it's just a microcosm to this point.. I will stick to my point that a few well placed rounds should take down any aircraft of this era pretty rapidly.

 

Regards,

Mad-Moses

This is the key, well placed hits will take down an aircraft. You have to hit the vitals. Don't expect a wing to fold just because you hit a few rounds into it's spar, it just wasn't common at all irl.

All of the things you mention (engine damage, cylinder damage, crank damage, fuel tanks, liquid cooling, oil, ammo cookoff, etc) can happen in game, they are modeled with their own hitboxes iirc so you have to actually hit them to do any sort of damage.

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Me in a P-51 vs 3 x 109-G6 in QMB: 

 

First one down with wingtip off after a rather quick well aimed burst.

 

Second one more ammo wasted. Trailing liquids in all directions and then pilot kill

 

Third one good burst in the engine area. A second burst in engine area again and a nice warming fire that the LW pilot did not want to warm his hands on.

 

engine_fire.png.5186b870db741b86111df45e9b90558c.png

 

Ammo left after that. I do not see any problem at all with the effectiveness of the .50 cal and the new damage model with varied results is awesome. A big kudos to the devs for pulling this off affecting so much in the game... The results much more resemble what we see in gun camera rolls now - the only thing we can look at. And remember that very few gun cam rolls where someone pours .50 at a plane and not much happen will be found on Youtube...

 

And a quick burst of Mk108 shows that the IL2 can't take everything - just as it should be. Crashed with both sides of the elevator and rudder gone after that explosion was done  :) 

mk108_vs_Il2.thumb.png.12fbc9266872b6829d18ecbf0e080414.png

 

Edited by mazex
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I don’t know if anyone has noticed when gunning planes with the 20mm: I love the fluidity of how the plane flies, it almost looks like the impact of the HE rounds “pushes” it out of the air. 

 

Great update 👍

Edited by Tipsi
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On 4/9/2020 at 8:19 PM, Tipsi said:

I don’t know if anyone has noticed when gunning planes with the 20mm: I love the fluidity  of how the plane flies as it almost looks like the impact of the HE rounds “pushes” it out of the air. 

 

Great update 👍

 

Yep - this 109 got pushed in the wrong direction after some 20mm where you don't want them... Lot's of comic book 1978 feeling in that shot. Should maybe cartoonize it :)

20mmFace.thumb.png.067cb3f0236ef5e1c8a0ab15330dfcdf.png

 

Just had to do it :)

 

20mmFaceComic.thumb.png.0f42b8990149478894b59f1a542328cd.png

 

EDIT - love that my screenshot made it into the official email update. But it hurts a bit as it was taken on lower VR settings, no AA etc and with the mouse pointer on screen ;) Anyway - here is another one with Ultra settings, AA, a bit of horizon tilt for more "action feeling" and no UI... And yes - I had to spend quite some time to pause at exactly the same moment in the track :)

20mmFace_HighC.thumb.png.e3c5bb8618107b4a7ff1cd16340fc0ae.png

 

 

 

Edited by mazex
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52 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

In the Mustang you have 6 .50 cals. shooting at once. 90 rounds landing on target is about 1 - 1.25 seconds worth of shooting. Seems reasonable. 64 shots is less than a second of shooting. Even less so in the Jug. America just had a different philosophy of how to damage enemy planes. Still gets the job done as history and our sim shows.

 

Jason

The reality of it all is it's just really 1 bullet or 1 cannon round that hits the critical spot that is fatal for the aircraft or pilot.

 

I am fine if its sometimes 100 or even 150 rounds if sometimes it's only 10 or 15 meaning you hit the critical spot to down the aircraft. If it's an accumulative damage on most critical points of the aircraft then it would be flawed model. Only critical spot I saw in the first night of flying is the pilots head.

 

Will take a little homage with comment the timing of .50 firing rate... 10% accuracy (at least online DF fighting) is exceptionally good. 5% is well above average... so at 5% accuracy (above average gunnery skills) you are talking about 22-25 seconds of firing time to land 90 hits on a 109... 22 seconds is everything you got (1880 rounds) to kill one plane. That's a long time to shoot down one small single engine plane and will draw a ton of attention your way.

 

Regards,

Mad-Moses

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2 minutes ago, Mad-Moses said:

The reality of it all is it's just really 1 bullet or 1 cannon round that hits the critical spot that is fatal for the aircraft or pilot.

 

I am fine if its sometimes 100 or even 150 rounds if sometimes it's only 10 or 15 meaning you hit the critical spot to down the aircraft. If it's an accumulative damage on most critical points of the aircraft then it would be flawed model. Only critical spot I saw in the first night of flying is the pilots head.

 

Will take a little homage with comment the timing of .50 firing rate... 10% accuracy (at least online DF fighting) is exceptionally good. 5% is well above average... so at 5% accuracy (above average gunnery skills) you are talking about 22-25 seconds of firing time to land 90 hits on a 109... 22 seconds is everything you got (1880 rounds) to kill one plane. That's a long time to shoot down one small single engine plane and will draw a ton of attention your way.

 

Regards,

Mad-Moses

Can you record a trak of your next fight and put it here? I'd like to see what you're hitting.

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PreyStalker

Great job getting the update out, even with lock downs etc.

 

I've spent some time shooting stuff in SP Quick Missions, flying 109s vs late war allied planes mostly. New DM seems pretty good overall.

 

I'm not so sure about this though: "AI Improvements"


"77. The AI pilots of the high-speed aircraft now try to use their advantage over significantly slower aircraft using the hit and run tactics;"

 

The AI seem to have lost their Mojo. In the middle of a dog fight they will just fly off in a straight line, even if they are only slightly damaged or at an energy disadvantage. In most cases they get caught and shot out of the sky without trying to avoid the shots. They just sit there and soak it up.

 

It seems to have become their default maneuver,  but they get stuck doing that and just wait to be hit. The AI skill level was set to ACE.

 

Good gunnery practice though, that's what I use SP for 

😉

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Can you record a trak of your next fight and put it here? I'd like to see what you're hitting.

I just fly online and always stream on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/majhnoon_dogs/

Usually on from 8:00pm - midnight-ish  Eastern time if you want to tune in. Usually fly the Combat Box DF server, like the plane sets and maps and there is great competition there.

 

In regard to track you just mean in-game replay or the 'TacView' thingy? Haven't tried the TacView yet.

 

Mad-Moses

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18 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Wow.  Just WOW.

 

Installed the update, rebooted, and then fired it up my Stalingrad Playground mission and spent an hour in VR having a blast!

 

The Gods of Random Spawning saw fit to bestow upon my flight of 3 BF109 F-4's, a group of 4 LaGGs which were dispatched in a variety pf interesting ways, and those buggers fought a hard fight and didn't go down easy.  Used up all my ammo so I landed and parked in the RRR area (SO GLAD that some of the little glitches were addressed in this patch, it's the coolest feature ever), then took off again and dealt with a lone P-51 (actually my wingmen got him) and then we cruised south and stirred up a flight of 4 P-38's.  Got two before running out of ammo again and split for home.  Left one slightly streaming and like others have said the variation in fuel and coolant leaks is subtle but still noticeable.  Most fun I've had in a long time, performance was excellent with no FPS drop or stutters and the damage model(s) just seems great!

 

Kudos to the team!

 

vPAUJJi.jpg

any chance you could send/upload this sp mission? Sounds fun!

 

Maple 

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4 minutes ago, Mad-Moses said:

I just fly online and always stream on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/majhnoon_dogs/

Usually on from 8:00pm - midnight-ish  Eastern time if you want to tune in. Usually fly the Combat Box DF server, like the plane sets and maps and there is great competition there.

 

In regard to track you just mean in-game replay or the 'TacView' thingy? Haven't tried the TacView yet.

 

Mad-Moses

I just meant the in-game track.

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=gRiJ=Roman-

I have a question, can the flaps get damaged if you lower them in speed much higher that the recommended?

I am not sure if that is modelled?

Edited by =gRiJ=Roman-
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6 hours ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

Anyone have any initial impressions on how the bombs work in the new patch? They seem to have been heavily nerfed particularly against buildings. I understand their effectiveness against tanks was reduced to better reflect real data but what about its effect against the other ground targets?buildings/dugouts/ships?

 

Tested this flying Blue aircrafts. Placed a 1000kg bomb within 5m of a building and it survived. Concurrently the 20mm is still killing buildings within a few shots (under ~60 I'd say).

 

In short, from the testings I did yesterday, 200 rounds of 20mm Cannon can kill more buildings than 2x1000kg in the same heavily dense target area.

 

The effectiveness of weapons against buildings is going to depend on the durability value set by the mission designer.

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13 hours ago, Mad-Moses said:

My first impression of the patch... just a microcosm of 5 online sorties on Combat Box dogfight server.

 

If you are a P-51 pilot you will be unhappy...

 

Kills: Took 90x 0.50 hits to bring down my first K-4. Took 64 rounds to bring down my 2nd K-4. No major engine damage to them just white smoke. Had a A-8 dead to rights on my next kill gave up shooting him from behind and just went for a deflection shot in the canopy and it worked well with a PK.

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that out all planeset the gunnery with P-51 for me personally is the most difficult.  That was before 4.005 update and continues to be so after. I just found it impossibly hard to do any real damage with those pea shooters in the Mustang.  Maybe it's a fast closure rate, maybe it's unstable nose, I don't know, but sharp-shooting with P-51 is just horrible. Opposite to that I have zero problems with aim/damage when using P40, P39, P47 or even Mc202 with its single .50 gun.

 

And then there are some pilots in MP that are fantastic with P-51. But I can tell you there aren't many.

 

So, take it with a grain of salt, but I just think we all suck at gunnery with the Mustang and in the need of some prolonged weapons training that includes correct convergence setting, correct closure speed, correct distance for opening fire. It's 3 variables and if one of them is off in your head you simply miss.

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16 minutes ago, Maple said:

any chance you could send/upload this sp mission? Sounds fun!

 

Maple 

 

Sure thing! Actually it can be found for download in this thread (there's also a version for the Kuban map, but not up to quite the same level of sophistimication as this later mission set):

 

Have fun!

 

 

Edited by =[TIA]=Stoopy
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Floppy_Sock

@Legioneod

 @Mad-Moses I take it this is the clip you're referring to? https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyThirstyPepperoniMcaT 

 

 

You're firing way inside your convergence range. The bandit manages to get some separation right before the final, solid burst puts him under, where you hit him nicely in the elevator and he loses control. I don't see the issue here. The first hits, you're hitting him in the wings with a few rounds at most. 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Can you record a trak of your next fight and put it here? I'd like to see what you're hitting.

Will try to remember to start the recording just before I engage the enemy tonight and make a few tracks... hopefully it doesn't kill my FPS too much.

 

Mad-Moses

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24 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I have a question, can the flaps get damaged if you lower them in speed much higher that the recommended?

I am not sure if that is modelled?

 

Yes

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11 minutes ago, Mad-Moses said:

Will try to remember to start the recording just before I engage the enemy tonight and make a few tracks... hopefully it doesn't kill my FPS too much.

 

Mad-Moses

I personally don't notice any performance difference when recording tracks. Its probably fine.

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69th_Mobile_BBQ

I have a couple of question about the P-51 and it's firing pattern. 

 

Currently, (as best as I can observe) all guns on the wings fire together and re-chamber the next round together.  One of my squad mates has told me that they think the correct way is for the guns to fire is 1,2,3 sequential. So, gun 1 would fire and while 2 was firing, re-chamber. 2 would fire and then re-chamber while 3 was firing. 3 would fire and then re-chamber while 1 was firing, rinse and repeat.   The muzzle flashes would appear to ripple across the 3 guns in each wing.  IIRC he said the pattern was outboard to inboard.  

 

If that's true, it wouldn't change the rate or volume of fire being sent to the target, but it would fill in miniscule 'gaps' along the entire bullet stream.  That might mean that there would be a higher likelihood of being hit by more bullets if the target was to quickly pass through the stream.  It could also mean that either pattern (all simultaneous or 1,2,3, ripple) would be negligible in changes to hit rate.  

 

My question is - Is the current firing pattern correct?  If not does it matter? 

If it does matter, certain shooting angles and scenarios might actually not be hitting at the correct volume. Therefore, it may not be the bullet that's underpowered.  It may be that it's actually hitting less than it should on targets that pass through the stream just ahead of (or just behind) the convergence point.  

 

I take it that this might also relate to the P-47 and possibly the P-40 as well.  I would imagine that the P-38 would probably benefit more with an all-together firing pattern due to its no-convergence setup.   

Edited by 69th_Mobile_BBQ
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3 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I have a couple of question about the P-51 and it's firing pattern. 

 

Currently, (as best as I can observe) all guns on the wings fire together and re-chamber the next round together.  One of my squad mates has told me that they think the correct way is for the guns to fire is 1,2,3 sequential. So, gun 1 would fire and while 2 was firing, re-chamber. 2 would fire and then re-chamber while 3 was firing. 3 would fire and then re-chamber while 1 was firing, rinse and repeat.   The muzzle flashes would appear to ripple across the 3 guns in each wing.  IIRC he said the pattern was outboard to inboard.  

 

If that's true, it wouldn't change the rate or volume of fire being sent to the target, but it would fill in miniscule 'gaps' along the entire bullet stream.  That might mean that there would be a higher likelihood of being hit by more bullets if the target was to quickly pass through the stream.  It could also mean that either pattern (all simultaneous or 1,2,3, ripple) would be negligible in changes to hit rate.  

 

My question is - Is the current firing pattern correct?  If not does it matter? 

If it does matter, certain shooting angles and scenarios might actually not be hitting at the correct volume. Therefore, it may not be the bullet that's underpowered.  It may be that it's actually hitting less than it should on targets that pass through the stream just ahead of (or just behind) the convergence point.  

 

I take it that this might also relate to the P-47 and possibly the P-40 as well.  I would imagine that the P-38 would probably benefit more with an all-together firing pattern due to its no-convergence setup.   

That's very interesting. I've always found odd that all guns would fire at the same time.

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=KG76=flyus747
20 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The effectiveness of weapons against buildings is going to depend on the durability value set by the mission designer.

While true, this does not recognize that the v4.005s 20000 durability no longer equivocates to v4.004s 20000 durability.

 

What we're looking at right now is that the bombs seem to be weaker, much weaker, against buildings. Weaker as in v4.005s 20000 behaves more like v4.004s 50000. A 1000kg landing near a tight package of buildings barely kills a single one. Whereas in the past the same experiment would have knocked out maybe like 50-60% of this tight package of buildings.

 

I haven't tested the bombs against tanks yet.

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LLv34_Temuri

One gripe about the update:

Now that bombs are weaker and cannons stronger, the bug that e.g. industrial buildings can be destroyed with a short cannon burst is even worse, as a 500 kg bomb dropped next to the building doesn’t seem to do much. This cannon thing has been there since Kuban release. I was hoping it would’ve been addressed. I’d really like to have it like it used to be, which is that above certain durability value, cannons are not effective in destroying buildings.

Edit: and we’re using the recommended durability values.

 

Otherwise, perhaps the best update the team has done.

Edited by LLv34_Temuri
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34 minutes ago, Floppy_Sock said:

@Mad-Moses I take it this is the clip you're referring to? https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyThirstyPepperoniMcaT 

Yep... is me, not necessarily referring to any one clip.

 

Notice watching it now... when he pulls up to the sun I see the flash on the canopy that is when he gets wounded. Then I shoot both of his tires off and they come spinning back at me. The last big burst into the wing root cockpit area finally kills the pilot.

 

Notice no evident of engine damage (still fly full speed) couple dozen rounds should have went through that DB 605.

 

Regards,

Mad-Moses

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NO.20_Fuzzy_Man_Peach

Does anyone know the size of this update? My internet is super slow and I do t want to start the update Until later if it’s pretty large. Thanks in advance!

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Just now, 6./ZG1Fuzzy_Man_Peach said:

Does anyone know the size of this update? My internet is super slow and I do t want to start the update Until later if it’s pretty large. Thanks in advance!

 

in Steam it was 1.8GB

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NO.20_Fuzzy_Man_Peach
Just now, Count_de_Money said:

 

in Steam it was 1.8GB

Exact answer I was looking for. Thanks! 🙏🏻

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J5_Gamecock
3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

50s just aren't as damaging to aircraft as you might think (structurally anyways).

 Maybe you should try the 7.9mm Spandaus... they absolutely shred planes in FC now.:(

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15 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I have a couple of question about the P-51 and it's firing pattern. 

 

Currently, (as best as I can observe) all guns on the wings fire together and re-chamber the next round together.  One of my squad mates has told me that they think the correct way is for the guns to fire is 1,2,3 sequential. So, gun 1 would fire and while 2 was firing, re-chamber. 2 would fire and then re-chamber while 3 was firing. 3 would fire and then re-chamber while 1 was firing, rinse and repeat.   The muzzle flashes would appear to ripple across the 3 guns in each wing.  IIRC he said the pattern was outboard to inboard.  

 

If that's true, it wouldn't change the rate or volume of fire being sent to the target, but it would fill in miniscule 'gaps' along the entire bullet stream.  That might mean that there would be a higher likelihood of being hit by more bullets if the target was to quickly pass through the stream.  It could also mean that either pattern (all simultaneous or 1,2,3, ripple) would be negligible in changes to hit rate.  

 

My question is - Is the current firing pattern correct?  If not does it matter? 

If it does matter, certain shooting angles and scenarios might actually not be hitting at the correct volume. Therefore, it may not be the bullet that's underpowered.  It may be that it's actually hitting less than it should on targets that pass through the stream just ahead of (or just behind) the convergence point.  

 

I take it that this might also relate to the P-47 and possibly the P-40 as well.  I would imagine that the P-38 would probably benefit more with an all-together firing pattern due to its no-convergence setup.   

I don't know about aviation M2 machine guns but I have a lot of experience with the ones for infantry and vehicles. While they are built to be exactly the same in the factory, they don't all behave the same. The firing rate is not 100% the same for every gun. Some guns get more wear than others. Some are tighter or looser. Head space and timing have to be manually set to each individual gun and they aren't always the same. I find it difficult to believe that wing guns could ever keep synchronized to each other for very long.

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Just now, Han said:

Dear friends,

We did our best to fix the problems that were revealed shortly after the initial release of 4.005 ASAP. 4.005b hotfix is already published and you can update your installation. The quick fixes are as follows:
1. Missing contrails and smoke from smoke generators restored in multiplayer;
2. Explosions damage to buildings (i.e. from bombs) has been corrected;
3. Bombsight should work fine in VR;
4. Many static objects (static_*) were corrected to align with the terrain properly.

 

You guys are damn fast! Many thanks and a happy and healthy easter Weekend.

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35 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I have a couple of question about the P-51 and it's firing pattern. 

 

Currently, (as best as I can observe) all guns on the wings fire together and re-chamber the next round together.  One of my squad mates has told me that they think the correct way is for the guns to fire is 1,2,3 sequential. So, gun 1 would fire and while 2 was firing, re-chamber. 2 would fire and then re-chamber while 3 was firing. 3 would fire and then re-chamber while 1 was firing, rinse and repeat.   The muzzle flashes would appear to ripple across the 3 guns in each wing.  IIRC he said the pattern was outboard to inboard.  

 

If that's true, it wouldn't change the rate or volume of fire being sent to the target, but it would fill in miniscule 'gaps' along the entire bullet stream.  That might mean that there would be a higher likelihood of being hit by more bullets if the target was to quickly pass through the stream.  It could also mean that either pattern (all simultaneous or 1,2,3, ripple) would be negligible in changes to hit rate.  

 

My question is - Is the current firing pattern correct?  If not does it matter? 

If it does matter, certain shooting angles and scenarios might actually not be hitting at the correct volume. Therefore, it may not be the bullet that's underpowered.  It may be that it's actually hitting less than it should on targets that pass through the stream just ahead of (or just behind) the convergence point.  

 

I take it that this might also relate to the P-47 and possibly the P-40 as well.  I would imagine that the P-38 would probably benefit more with an all-together firing pattern due to its no-convergence setup.   

There was no synchronizes for the guns irl. What would happen is once you pull the trigger the guns would quickly go out of sinc so they would be firing at different times/rates. What we see in-game with perfect synchronization is not correct, hopefully it will be fixed in the future along with adding a shotgun harmonization pattern.

 

@Mad-Moses

Quick test in singleplayer. Some aircraft took a while to down but others were very quick (mostly due to pilot kill). When you get god hits the aircraft will go down but maybe not right away. The second aircraft I hit I got a pilot kill but his engine also died very quickly with the first burst.

 

I do agree that there probably should have been more leaks but I may just not have noticed them. I hit the radiators a few times yet there was no noticeable leaks.

 

Edited by Legioneod
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LLv34_Temuri
3 minutes ago, Han said:

Dear friends,

We did our best to fix the problems that were revealed shortly after the initial release of 4.005 ASAP. 4.005b hotfix is already published and you can update your installation. The quick fixes are as follows:
1. Missing contrails and smoke from smoke generators restored in multiplayer;
2. Explosions damage to buildings (i.e. from bombs) has been corrected;
3. Bombsight should work fine in VR;
4. Many static objects (static_*) were corrected to align with the terrain properly.

Thank you very much!

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