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Game version 4.005 discussion: New airframe damage model

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Awesome. Thank you very, very much.

Just awesome...

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Run some tests on DM using only heavy MGs in SP

in quick mission always against AI novice P40, i dont know how it traslates to MP:

 

-2x 12.7mm breda (MC 202): airframe damage was extremely rare even before, now it's even more important to aim for vital parts. In general seems that engines are thougher than before and you some times put 10+ hits on the cockpit/engine area without any tangible effects, while before you tended to get much more consistent results. Visual effects include puffs of smoke and the occasional flash. P40 riddled with holes.

 

-2x 12.7mm M2 (P39): same overall effects of the bredas, with the guns marginally more effective.

 

-2x 13mm MG131 (109G6): Now these were MASSIVELY different from the other two. Visual effects were always small explosions (bright orange puffs) on every hit, and airframe damage was consistent; aileron, elevators etc. no wings detachment but all the kills came from AI losing control of the plane, while I couldnt seem to damage the engine much. Visually the P40 was reporting very large holes and missing parts of panels and control surfaces. Time to kill a bit lower than for the other two guns.

 

Did the MG131 behave like this before? is it because it has a different ammo load?

 

Genuinely asking, didnt notice it before.

 

Thanks for the update team! I will keep testing the DM

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Has to be effect or tracer mod. Texture and cloud mods run fine. 

 

the multicolored tracer mod should be broken now (I did not even try running the multicolored tracer v1.1 with v4004)

The V4005 update brought some changes which explain HerrBree's error message.

 

New hit types have been added in the ammo/shell definitions:

HitDummy & HitMetal (HitPlane has been removed) - rather interesting

 

I have made a new version compatible to V4005.

 

Download: Multicoloured Tracers V1.2 is compatible to IL-2 GB V4005

http://www.mediafire.com/file/3gnwk8oayedwdk8/Multicoloured_Tracers_V1.2.zip

 

 

Please report any bugs / issues directly via PM to me - I will fix asap.

Please note that I have only changed the tracer colors - all damage stuff is same as v4005 original

 

 

 

PS:

Awesome update! Thanks to the dev team for your hard work

I did some QMB test runs and was very impressed!

Il-2s are quite hard to shoot down with a Bf-109 now (even with 20mm gunpods)

 

Cheers

Rieper

Edited by rieper_420
added thanks for v4005 update
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3 minutes ago, Toppaso said:

Did the MG131 behave like this before? is it because it has a different ammo load?

 

Genuinely asking, didnt notice it before.

 

Thanks for the update team! I will keep testing the DM

 

I believe that the Mg-131 had a larger bursting charge... the effects overhaul and damage model seem to capture this.

 

- My first machine gun test with an I-16 against a Ju-88 allowed me to take out the pilot during a head on pass (I haven't tested shooting from the rear).

 

- My tests with a Pfalz D.III against a Bristol Fighter went quite smoothly... despite aiming for the wings (and badly damaging them) I ended up hitting the pilot... the wings didn't fold in spite of my best efforts... however, I did shoot off a horizontal stabiliser... I think stabillisers/emppennage may experience a lot less flexing from aerodyinamic stress relative to the wings... and thus tend to be more lightly built generally (i.e. easier to shoot off).

 

- My tests with the pure-AP 'special load' in the La-5FN seems to support the idea that AP rounds are much less effective... however, they seemed to penetrate very well... the bombers I shot down were taken out because AP rounds went through the nacelle and destroyed the engine from behind (the second aircraft I shot down this way was a He-111... without much visible damage but with both engines lit on fire during the first pass from the rear)...

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Toppaso said:

Did the MG131 behave like this before? is it because it has a different ammo load?

 

Genuinely asking, didnt notice it before.

 

  • 13 mm AP-T (Pzgr. L'Spur) - 710 m/s, projectile mass 38.5 grams (594 gr), muzzle energy 989 m/kg[2]
  • 13 mm HE-T (Sprgr. L'Spur) - 710 m/s, projectile mass 34 grams (520 gr)[3]
  • 13 mm HEI-T (Br. Sprgr. L'Spur) - 750 m/s, projectile mass 34 grams (520 gr) with 1.4 grams (22 gr) PETN + 0.3 grams (4.6 gr) thermite, muzzle energy 975 m/kg[4

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_131_machine_gun

Edited by sevenless

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The mighty P-47 is mighty again! thank you!

Now you can nurse it home with ease!

2aa9a6f18a971fb9971b323d552a66a9.jpg

 

Just another day at the office here!

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Posted (edited)

bomba.thumb.png.034407a9dfb61bd89d147982f71af700.png

image.thumb.png.ec3c285f34ed0d1cf230c06993dad770.png

 

Aquellos de nosotros que usamos VR con qué ojo estamos apuntando ahora? Exigimos fuertemente que regrese el método anterior, aquí no funciona el ojo predominante.

 

 

Edited by Ala13_UnopaUno_VR
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7 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

- My tests with a Pfalz D.III against a Bristol Fighter went quite smoothly... despite aiming for the wings (and badly damaging them) I ended up hitting the pilot... the wings didn't fold in spite of my best efforts... however, I did shoot off a horizontal stabiliser... I think stabillisers/emppennage may experience a lot less flexing from aerodyinamic stress relative to the wings... and thus tend to be more lightly built generally (i.e. easier to shoot off).


Initial sorties I am seeing somewhat the opposite unfortunately. Camel against Halberstadt and I am going through their wings as a knife through butter. The new sounds that I am hearing when my Camel is hit or damaged are most welcome though.

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18 minutes ago, rieper_420 said:

 

the multicolored tracer mod should be broken now (I did not even try running the multicolored tracer v1.1 with v4004)

The V4005 update brought some changes which explain HerrBree's error message.

 

New hit types have been added in the ammo/shell definitions:

HitDummy & HitMetal (HitPlane has been removed) - rather interesting

 

I have made a new version compatible to V4005.

 

Download: Multicoloured Tracers V1.2 is compatible to IL-2 GB V4005

http://www.mediafire.com/file/3gnwk8oayedwdk8/Multicoloured_Tracers_V1.2.zip

 

 

Please report any bugs / issues directly via PM to me - I will fix asap.

Please note that I have only changed the tracer colors - all damage stuff is same as v4005 original

 

 

 

PS:

Awesome update! Thanks to the dev team for your hard work

I did some QMB test runs and was very impressed!

Il-2s are quite hard to shoot down with a Bf-109 now (even with 20mm gunpods)

 

Cheers

Rieper

How Can we use this mod?

2 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

NS37 better)

How, and why? 😄

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1 minute ago, Oliver88 said:

Initial sorties I am seeing somewhat the opposite unfortunately. Camel against Halberstadt and I am going through their wings as a knife through butter. The new sounds that I am hearing when my Camel is hit or damaged are most welcome though.

 

Try it against the Bristol Fighter and tell us the results! It could be the Halberstadt is more lightly built in the wings...

 

I've also not 'winged' a WWII era aircraft yet (although I haven't tried really high caliber rounds). My only disappointment so far is that the blast fragmentation model doesn't seem to have made near-misses by rockets more effective against trucks (and other soft-skins).

 

P.S. My personal tendency is to actually defer to the damage model after reading about how much research and effort went into it... That said, the more durable wings feel 'right' - although it'd also be nice to actually see the old 'crumpling butterfly' effect from time-to-time (for nostalgia sake at least)... so I'm kindof hoping at least one WW1 aircraft has weak wings... even if the others don't.

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I just saw the wing come off a 109G14 that I’d been shooting with 6 x .50s, but I’d just hit the pilot and it looked more like his “death grip” pulled it off from over G.

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33 minutes ago, Toppaso said:

Did the MG131 behave like this before? is it because it has a different ammo load?

 

MG131 always seemed like an effective gun, noticed right away when 109G-6 came out. It's a big projectile.

 

They have the added benefit of being mounted side by side right on the center line so if you are able to hit with one you are more than likely hitting with both guns.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Try it against the Bristol Fighter and tell us the results! It could be the Halberstadt is more lightly built in the wings...

 

I've also not 'winged' a WWII era aircraft yet (although I haven't tried really high caliber rounds). My only disappointment so far is that the blast fragmentation model doesn't seem to have made near-misses by rockets more effective against trucks (and other soft-skins).

 

P.S. My personal tendency is to actually defer to the damage model after reading about how much research and effort went into it... That said, the more durable wings feel 'right' - although it'd also be nice to actually see the old 'crumpling butterfly' effect from time-to-time (for nostalgia sake at least)... so I'm kindof hoping at least one WW1 aircraft has weak wings... even if the others don't.

 

Alright going to shoot up some Bristols then.

 

And yes indeed definitely. I also tend to defer to the dev teams changes. Just the much rarer crumpling of wings (along with the crumpling wings due to excessive G) that we have so far had in Flying Circus has been much more preferable to what existed in Rise of Flight. Felt better and more varied shoot downs. And I realise this is just early initial impressions also.

Edited by Oliver88

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Posted (edited)

Man this all sounds awesome, thanks devs, you guys are amazing!

 

Edited by Soilworker

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Terrific update: especially the details on how the new DM works.    Thank you team - a welcome and much needed distraction during these "interesting times".

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Posted (edited)

Had a hard time  trying to get at a Bristol with an Albatros, even shooting at some 20m did not really bring it down. But there are some holes in the thing:

 

Bristol damage.jpg

 

But the gunner did not give up while going down ....

 

Bristol damage 2.jpg

Edited by jollyjack
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Just WOW!

 

Sorry for my terrible English comprhension, but I didn't notice that the P47 has been reinforced or improved in terms of octane, durability or whatever else concerning its wickness.

Did I missed something?

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2 hours ago, 4thFG_Cpt_D_S_Gentile said:

Anything on the Allison? Yes I know nothing in the patch notes but?

 

Happy Easter and stay safe

No and it was really not announced either. I love the p 40 and took it for sure glass engine was equivalent with  P 40 and p 38. But it was more 

easy shot engines they meant not limitations. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Had a hard time  trying to get at a Bristol with an Albatros, even shooting at some 20m did not really bring it down. But there are some holes in the thing:

 

Bristol damage.jpg

 

Just flown again some. And that's one thing indeed lots of holes. Also something that I've not been noticing before but am now and can also been seen in your screenshot: struts shot away!

Edited by Oliver88

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2 minutes ago, DN308 said:

Just WOW!

 

Sorry for my terrible English comprhension, but I didn't notice that the P47 has been reinforced or improved in terms of octane, durability or whatever else concerning its wickness.

Did I missed something?

DM of every plane in the sim was reworked - every object really, so there is no specific mention of the P-47. According to at least one poster in this thread the P-47 is much improved as a result, since the way the new DM is calculated uses engineering specifications, and fewer assumptions that were likely the cause of the P-47's fragility. I haven't had a chance to fly yet though.

But as for octane, no there is no availability of higher octane fuel for the P-47 and one has not been announced as forthcoming AFAIK.

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4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

As the kids say today, this is a "Big Mood".

I plan on distracting everyone with easter candy this weekend, then fortifying the computer area against all comers. The kid can go one weekend without minecraft!

 

You should break down and build a new one for yourself. 😀

 

Thanks for the awesome improvements! 

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After playing some missions in the Tank Crew i noticed, with that new damage model, that AI ignores enemy tanks that could be classified as "mobility KO". You can't target them as well as a tank commander, and if the AI from said tank didn't run then they just oblitarate everything you have.

Also, commanding the tank gunner to "fire at will" works fine (finally) buuut the AI ignored my targeting commands. That's weird.

Otherwise the patch looks good ;)

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Just now, RedKestrel said:

DM of every plane in the sim was reworked - every object really, so there is no specific mention of the P-47. According to at least one poster in this thread the P-47 is much improved as a result, since the way the new DM is calculated uses engineering specifications, and fewer assumptions that were likely the cause of the P-47's fragility. I haven't had a chance to fly yet though.

But as for octane, no there is no availability of higher octane fuel for the P-47 and one has not been announced as forthcoming AFAIK.

Ok, many thanks.

For one of the fastest fighter in the allied inventory, it would has been nice indeed

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6 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

You should break down and build a new one for yourself. 😀

 

That is the long term plan- just got a new video card and more RAM and saved the old parts in the new packaging. Next stage is new mobo and CPU, then the old parts will be used to build a light gaming rig for the kid.

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2 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

Just a first impression on watching the AI scrap it out, but these WWI crates seem to more readily soak up a spray of bullets from behind typically leading to a swiss cheese mass of little holes whilst still flying on, yet shots head on or to the side can still inflict critical failures.

 

Seems a bit more along the lines of what I'd expect for aircraft that are little more than fabric over a sparse wooden frame.

 

 

Yep!  The old saying, "metal or meat" has never been more true in a WWI flying sim.  (at least that I ever tried!)

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Dear devs,

 

Allow me to congratulate you on another truly excellent iteration of our beloved sim. It is grandiose. Between the superb refinements of the damage model and the tweaks to dogfight AI, I just had the greatest bout of BFM ever. Those fritzes sold their skin very dearly, clawing for angles and altitude with a very lifelike tenacity. They died ever so convincingly, making seeing their engines burst into flames very satisfying. 

 

Thank you!

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Point of interest: I had an automatic Steam install ( with Mods on)and in game play had problems with locked screen midway thru a mission's mission...twice. I did a local files check thru Steam ( with Mods off,)& found I was missing 110 files that would be replaced. Haven't had the chance to replay the same mission , but I thought this apparent and maybe only one time glitch was worth listing....

 

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1 hour ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

MG131 always seemed like an effective gun, noticed right away when 109G-6 came out. It's a big projectile.

 

They have the added benefit of being mounted side by side right on the center line so if you are able to hit with one you are more than likely hitting with both guns.

 

Also it has a relatively fast rate of fire so you are putting quite a few rounds on target when hitting with them.

 

I think it's also important for people to realize that these are not anywhere near the same thing as .50BMG. Whereas the USA .50BMG is basically a giant rifle cartridge with a spitzer projectile, the MG131 cartridge is basically a downscaled cannon where the projectile has a fuze that ignites an explosive filler.

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36 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

This is just my own testing and it's hardly scientific and maybe I just got lucky, but do airplanes seem a little... explosive to anyone else?

 

https://streamable.com/8y6ue8

 

https://streamable.com/pqt0rj

 

(Shadowplay messed up in the second one, so no sound for some reason)

 

Looks like you erroneously downloaded the Michael Bay Edition. Seriously, give it some time over the weekend. If it needs tweaking they will be looking after it for sure.

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So I don't use a mouse or a vr or track ir for sight, and my controls for my joystick to view won't allow me to look 360 degrees, and the views are just messed up, is this a part of the update for views using joysticks now?

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2 minutes ago, WARMOX said:

So I don't use a mouse or a vr or track ir for sight, and my controls for my joystick to view won't allow me to look 360 degrees, and the views are just messed up, is this a part of the update for views using joysticks now?

No. Check your config.

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Just now, E69_Cananas said:

No. Check your config.

Sorry, I'm new, what/where is that?

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

DM of every plane in the sim was reworked - every object really, so there is no specific mention of the P-47. According to at least one poster in this thread the P-47 is much improved as a result, since the way the new DM is calculated uses engineering specifications, and fewer assumptions that were likely the cause of the P-47's fragility. I haven't had a chance to fly yet though.

But as for octane, no there is no availability of higher octane fuel for the P-47 and one has not been announced as forthcoming AFAIK.

 

The engine seems to keep running after spitting oil over the windscreen (in my one experience so far)... so quite a bit better at ground attack... but nothing will make up for the poor turn rate at low altitude.

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55 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

This is just my own testing and it's hardly scientific and maybe I just got lucky, but do airplanes seem a little... explosive to anyone else?

 

https://streamable.com/8y6ue8

 

https://streamable.com/pqt0rj

 

(Shadowplay messed up in the second one, so no sound for some reason)

 

What were the configurations of the target aircraft? Fuel, weapons, etc load-out?

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Yes this is a big improvement in the damage model that long needed fixing.Of course the trick  as always is to get in close new DM or not you get your kill.

 

Funny enough its one of the sound changes,which is when your plane is hit by a volley of machine gun fire and you hear every individual bullet strike plus the hit sound is now

different that I think is pretty cool.

 

Off now to try game update in VR

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Has anyone managed to shoot the rear fuselage off an aircraft? I've tried using the 37mm... which lacerated the airframe but didn't produce failure (so far). If so... if we ever get a 50mm or 57mm cannon and it is capable of causing that kind of catastrophic failure... it'll be unique. Not done testing yet.

 

I'd also try seeing if I can shoot through the fuselage of a the Halberstadt from below using the Lewis gun... but the QMB settings will have the two-seaters trying to dogfight - so I'd have to load up the full mission builder to test it properly.

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