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scripted or non-scripted


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1 hour ago, jollyjack said:

Call me a dumbo, but what is scripted in case of a campaign?

 

Scripted campaigns are a defined sequence of designed missions. There are no coincidences, no random events - everything is

placed and triggered by the designer of the missions. Therefore you are able to refly every mission again and again, all the events

will be more or less the same. At the end, it's like a script for a story line and there are (well in IL-2 GB at least) no "branching", the

outcome of a mission won't trigger a new path of the story. Either you succeed and you can continue with the next mission or

you fail and you have to repeat the mission until you succeed, although some scripted campaign designer can configure them

so that even with a failed mission, one can carry on with the next mission.

 

As for careers in IL2 Great Battles you cant refly missions because they are generated dynamically and randomly (more or less).

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Ah, thanks for the answer; like a game as tombraider, finish the level or you cannot play on 😕.

just unpacked a campaign to mission files, changed it with the FME to single instead of campaign, and now it's seen in the mission folder.

Like cheating in Tombraider. What about a God Mode for IL2?

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59 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Ah, thanks for the answer; like a game as tombraider, finish the level or you cannot play on 😕.

just unpacked a campaign to mission files, changed it with the FME to single instead of campaign, and now it's seen in the mission folder.

Like cheating in Tombraider. What about a God Mode for IL2?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "God mode" - invincible, immortal? Well, if you change your realism settings before starting a scripted campaign,

then you will be in god mode.

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On 4/3/2020 at 9:41 AM, jollyjack said:

Ah, thanks for the answer; like a game as tombraider, finish the level or you cannot play on 😕.

just unpacked a campaign to mission files, changed it with the FME to single instead of campaign, and now it's seen in the mission folder.

Like cheating in Tombraider. What about a God Mode for IL2?

 

Yes, that's all there is to it. The campaigns are usually written as single missions and then resaved as a campaign with the additional files.

 

You will typically get additional material playing it as a campaign though. Audio files, graphics, screen images, etc probably won't show up running it in single mission mode.

Edited by Jaegermeister
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  • 9 months later...

Just 'discovered' the career stuff, seems a lot of similarities there with campaigns. Must be quite a job programming careers with all their historical data built in.

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26 minutes ago, vonGraf said:

Ah, ok. And I thought they contain scripts in a fitting computer language to get certain events the AI won't came up with from alone, for example.

 That is indeed the case in CLoD/Tobruk. Missions can have an associated script file (written by the mission designer) which performs functions not available as standard.

 

Regards,

 

M

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2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Careers are difficult to program. That's why the PWCG function is encouraged.  

 

Are you sure? A third party tool without using any API's is better than coding the exact same feature inside a game where everything is open to you and for example you can validate the coordinates of the landscape before placing the object to avoid placing tank for example inside forest or river?

Hire him, or provide API's and you will get a much much better Career experience in IL2.

This is already amazing what the community makes with this game, imagine what can be done if Devs release API for this game.

Edited by Zeev
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3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Careers are difficult to program. That's why the PWCG function is encouraged. 

 

Just loaded one in to the ME out of curiosity; indeed, above my limited skills. Large files.

I tend to group a lot, not there but for city blocks, bridges etc

 

1770902771_carreerexampleME.thumb.jpg.f09820f4be91282eb16a027a967798b9.jpg

 

Pat might be the winner here LoL:

 

1727954781_PWFC1generated.thumb.jpg.83b8b17afe650aeb93f5d6268e4689e9.jpg

 

Edited by jollyjack
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On 1/27/2021 at 1:37 PM, Zeev said:

Are you sure?

Hire him, or provide API's and you will get a much much better Career experience in IL2.

This is already amazing what the community makes with this game, imagine what can be done if Devs release API for this game.

 

 

Along with Gambit, yes. Imagine spending a week on every mission template you only see once. No one does that full time.

You mean Patrick? He seems to prefer doing it as a hobby, not a job. He already programs for a living.

 

Edit... APIs could open up opportunities for cheats... You can't even trust shaders any more.

 

I'm not saying the campaign module can't use some improvement, but I think the issue is would you rather have that or FC 2 and BoN and a bunch of new collector vehicles and airplanes when the general consensus (including yours apparently) is that PWCG is about as good as we are going to get? 

Edited by Jaegermeister
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Scripted campaigns are very good, but I seldom want to fly them more than once. The improvements I still hope for in procedurally generated career are nothing spectacular, but the reduction of a few of the most immersion breaking events. 

 

Bombers formations, for instance, arriving over your fighter base to RV, then reversing course almost 180 degrees to get onto their next WP heading, leading to mass collisions. To cure that bombers could do air starts and finishes when the player is given an escort mission instead of being based on map, or the escort RV should be at a shared WP towards the target, not over the fighter base.

 

The time it takes to get landing clearance is another thing that drives me nuts, but I understand that is integrated into how landing strips are designed and quite hard to change.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

but I think the issue is would you rather have that or FC 2 and BoN and a bunch of new collector vehicles and airplanes when the general consensus (including yours apparently)

I can only speak for me, but from what I read here in the forums, it seems I am not alone. I would definitely take 'that'. New aircrafts and maps get pretty soon boring for me, without a good game around them. If they would offer a clearly improved career mode, I would immediately purchase it, without thinking about it. Something that really gives you the impression of being a pilot flying back then and not that sterile and artificial gamey thing we have now. And this absolutely includes this black sterile GUI, the game is packed in.

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2 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I can only speak for me, but from what I read here in the forums, it seems I am not alone. I would definitely take 'that'. New aircrafts and maps get pretty soon boring for me, without a good game around them. If they would offer a clearly improved career mode, I would immediately purchase it, without thinking about it. Something that really gives you the impression of being a pilot flying back then and not that sterile and artificial gamey thing we have now. And this absolutely includes this black sterile GUI, the game is packed in.

Same here

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56 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

 If they would offer a clearly improved career mode, I would immediately purchase it, without thinking about it. Something that really gives you the impression of being a pilot flying back then and not that sterile and artificial gamey thing we have now. And this absolutely includes this black sterile GUI, the game is packed in.

 

Well honestly I agree with you on some of those points, but my issues are a little different.

 

For me, always starting on the runway with the motor running, waiting to hit the throttle , then I look around and I am on a runway with brand new buildings around, and I take off to see nothing at the airbase. No junk, no damage, no ruined equipment. Then I fly to a target and do the mission so I can return to the same new and vacant airbase. As soon as I cut through the landing pattern and land, mission over and let’s do it again.

 

Actually maybe that’s the same issue you have, I guess that’s why I learned to use the ME.

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20 hours ago, Zeev said:

This is already amazing what the community makes with this game, imagine what can be done if Devs release API for this game.

An IL2 API is my ultimate dream in life.

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3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Actually maybe that’s the same issue you have, I guess that’s why I learned to use the ME.

It is one of the issues. For me there are many small things, the Devs would have to improve to make the career mode an immersive experience.

So far it still is an arcadic game.

 

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18 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Along with Gambit, yes. Imagine spending a week on every mission template you only see once. No one does that full time.

You mean Patrick? He seems to prefer doing it as a hobby, not a job. He already programs for a living.

APIs = instant cheats... 

and APIs = instant cheats... You can't even trust shaders any more.

 

I'm not saying the campaign module can't use some improvement, but I think the issue is would you rather have that or FC 2 and BoN and a bunch of new collector vehicles and airplanes when the general consensus (including yours apparently) is that PWCG is about as good as we are going to get? 

Google have API's and the rest of all major services, does that mean you can easily hack them?
I do not want to be rude as Gambit (typing a one word answer is a rude response) so I will only encourage you to google for "API" term and learn something new.
Just for an example, sending request to an API with coordinates x,y,z and receiving "Land" / "Sea" / "River" / "Mountain" / "Forest" - will probably not open for any multiplayer cheat exploits, but in exchange will allow tool developers to increase mission quality where your bomb targets wont appear inside a forest or a river.

 

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4 hours ago, Zeev said:

Just for an example, sending request to an API with coordinates x,y,z and receiving "Land" / "Sea" / "River" / "Mountain" / "Forest" - will probably not open for any multiplayer cheat exploits, but in exchange will allow tool developers to increase mission quality where your bomb targets wont appear inside a forest or a river.

 

OK. maybe I exaggerated a little bit... but we do have a very creative and resourceful group here. I edited my post above. 

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On 1/28/2021 at 11:43 AM, Zeev said:

Google have API's and the rest of all major services, does that mean you can easily hack them?
I do not want to be rude as Gambit (typing a one word answer is a rude response) so I will only encourage you to google for "API" term and learn something new.
Just for an example, sending request to an API with coordinates x,y,z and receiving "Land" / "Sea" / "River" / "Mountain" / "Forest" - will probably not open for any multiplayer cheat exploits, but in exchange will allow tool developers to increase mission quality where your bomb targets wont appear inside a forest or a river.

 

 

Your question required nothing beyond a one word answer.

 

Nothing, API or otherwise changes the fact that a career is an incredibly difficult thing to get right.

I don't have time to type a tome for you about how involved even a single mission file is, let alone a mission template containing more than one mission possibility.

I've designed 'by hand' a template containing many, MANY possibilities in a single mission file that will result in a fairly realistic mission output given that one aircraft, from that one airbase,  over that one given map. Now multiply this by every aircraft, for every map, during every time period.

Not easy. Things can be done in a 'hand crafted' sense are more difficult and sometimes nearly impossible from an automated standpoint.

 

My original one word 'rude' answer stands.

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13 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Your question required nothing beyond a one word answer.

 

Nothing, API or otherwise changes the fact that a career is an incredibly difficult thing to get right.

I don't have time to type a tome for you about how involved even a single mission file is, let alone a mission template containing more than one mission possibility.

I've designed 'by hand' a template containing many, MANY possibilities in a single mission file that will result in a fairly realistic mission output given that one aircraft, from that one airbase,  over that one given map. Now multiply this by every aircraft, for every map, during every time period.

Not easy. Things can be done in a 'hand crafted' sense are more difficult and sometimes nearly impossible from an automated standpoint.

 

My original one word 'rude' answer stands.

My advice to you will be: breath, relax, read my original post again instead jumping into conclusions, it is clear that you did not spend time doing it in the first place.

You are talking about B and I am talking about A, these are very different topics.

No one argues that you have many many hours of map editing experience and this community owes you big thanks for all your work but that does not give you a privilege to look at other members from above (I am talking about past post history not only about this post).
I can brag as well about my editing/moding skills (not only in this game) and my coding and automation skills in my real life career but lets stay civilized.

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Hm, how should I find the right words...

 

Ah, maybe this way:

 

Gambit21 has created really great campaigns, for which I gladly spent money. I appreciate his work and his maintenance on it.

 

What have you done so far for the IL2 community, Zeev?

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3 hours ago, Zeev said:

My advice to you will be: breath, relax, read my original post again instead jumping into conclusions, it is clear that you did not spend time doing it in the first place.

You are talking about B and I am talking about A, these are very different topics.

No one argues that you have many many hours of map editing experience and this community owes you big thanks for all your work but that does not give you a privilege to look at other members from above (I am talking about past post history not only about this post).
I can brag as well about my editing/moding skills (not only in this game) and my coding and automation skills in my real life career but lets stay civilized.

 

Let's review.

 

Statement - "careers are difficult to program"

Question - "Are you sure?"

Answer - "yes"

 

I can assure you my breathing is in order as ever, and I'm very calm, and I remain so despite your unintentionally ironic and patronizing "now let's stay calm and civilized, breath."

My reading comprehension also remains intact.

 

Further I'm not "bragging", I'm simply stating that I know what it takes to create a complex mission file where every option is present.

If you want to talk about "A" then feel free, it still doesn't change my original answer to the original query.

 

"yes" careers difficult to program. :)

 

 

 

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