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arthur666

Any simple way to deal with aircraft orientation/awareness?

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I don't have VR, and often in a 3D fight, I get disoriented while padlocked to an enemy fighter. Is there a way to add an artificial horizon, a PiP, or any other aid to the on-screen HUD info in bottom left? Or any other tips I might use?

 

Thanks.

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i think you can have a mini map in the right bottom corner... it'll show the enemy aircraft there.. provided it's enabled in difficulty settings..

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1 hour ago, arthur666 said:

I don't have VR, and often in a 3D fight, I get disoriented while padlocked to an enemy fighter. Is there a way to add an artificial horizon, a PiP, or any other aid to the on-screen HUD info in bottom left? Or any other tips I might use?

 

Thanks.

 

I used to have "look forward", "find enemy", and "padlock" mapped to the easiest to reach buttons.  When I was getting lost I would quickly switch to forward view and then return to the enemy and padlock again

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1 hour ago, arthur666 said:

I don't have VR, and often in a 3D fight, I get disoriented while padlocked to an enemy fighter. Is there a way to add an artificial horizon, a PiP, or any other aid to the on-screen HUD info in bottom left? Or any other tips I might use?

 

Thanks.

 

VR isn't necessary, but head tracking is a game changer. I use the Delan clip and PS3 eye camera set up. Much cheaper than TrackIR and well worth the money. In a combat sim, you are toast without head tracking...

 

https://delanengineering.com/shop/DELANCLiP-Gamer-p43397050

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2020 at 8:56 PM, arthur666 said:

I don't have VR, and often in a 3D fight, I get disoriented while padlocked to an enemy fighter. Is there a way to add an artificial horizon, a PiP, or any other aid to the on-screen HUD info in bottom left? Or any other tips I might use?

 

Thanks.

 

This is something that I struggled with for a while and, unfortunately, I don't think so. Your mind simply works different when you move your head as you should if you were maneuvering in a real plane.

 

Cheapest solution - buy a second hand TrackIR or build your own (it's very cheap and very easy). Afew months ago I went to my parents' home, dusted off the old DYI tracking system my dad had built for me in the good old Il-2 1946 days, and rebuild it with an 18650 battery (so, it's wireless). 

 

First few hours were dizzying but once you get used to it, it is way, way better than mouse look (or padlock, but you won't have that enabled in full real settings), you no longer feel disoriented and your situational awareness becomes times better.

 

Three IR diodes (I use the old Osram SFP485Ps, there are newer ones with wider angles), baseball cap, frame from three pens with 3d printed casing for the cabling, battery holder - should kick you back no more than $20. Another $10 for a second-hand Sony PS3 Eye Camera. Use opentrack, it's a free tracking software. You'll also learn something new while building it. ;)

Edited by Burdokva

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I used to have this problem some time ago - and I found that the best solution for it in the end was good old practice.  

 

Your brain eventually gets used the idea of flying while looking everywhere but forward, and once it does, it becomes second nature to tell where the nose is without having to rely on any cues besides the view picture itself. 

 

It helps if you keep the zoom control very handy, like on a joystick hat, axis, or a similar pair of controls that require but a flick of the thumb to operate without having to stop anything else.  If you tunnel-sight yourself for more than a few secs at a time while turning, you may lose mental track of where the nose is. (a problem unique to flight simulation, where your body isn't necessarily fixed to your head by the usual neck arrangement)

 

In my experience, I've decided that any additional cues, like HUD overlays and whatnot, serve mostly to increase information overload and confusion.  But then again, that's me.  Not necessarily the same applies to you or anyone else...

 

But I'd advise that if you're finding yourself losing track of the nose too much, it's probably because you're tunnel-sighting yourself a bit.  Keep the zoom mostly open, and close in only when you need to get details on your target.  That way, you should have a far better notion of which way is forward and what's there coming rapidly to meet you.

 

TrackIR does help - but only after it's own little learning curve. (in a day or two it becomes totally second nature)  The same reasoning applies regardless of view control method - zoom out, and your awareness goes up, zoom in, and you start getting lost. With practice, you can spend more and more time zoomed in without losing the nose, but take it slow and don't push it more than necessary. 

 

If you feel like you're not completely on top of things, zoom out until you have it again.

 

 

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18 hours ago, arthur666 said:

I don't have VR, and often in a 3D fight, I get disoriented while padlocked to an enemy fighter. Is there a way to add an artificial horizon, a PiP, or any other aid to the on-screen HUD info in bottom left? Or any other tips I might use?

 

Thanks.

It will just take time. When you're dogfighting your primary reference is the enemy fighter and not the horizon anymore. If you're worried about the horizon you likely aren't maneuvering how you need to against the fighter. You may need to glance down at your airspeed or altitude occassionally, but that's about it really. If you're able to fly with someone then practicing formation flight will help a lot with this aspect since BFM is like trying to get in formation with someone so you can be in a position to shoot them down! 🙂

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Thanks for all the replies! I'll keep practicing while I look into head tracking set-ups. 👍

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20 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

Your brain eventually gets used the idea of flying while looking everywhere but forward, and once it does, it becomes second nature to tell where the nose is without having to rely on any cues besides the view picture itself. 

 

I experience that only when I have a ground reference or horizon in my FOV. Once air-to-air maneuvering starts, if I'm padlocked and looking out the top of my canopy with only the sky as a background...I'm knackered. Such is my life as a 1GCCFP. 

 

7 hours ago, SYN_Requiem said:

If you're worried about the horizon you likely aren't maneuvering how you need to against the fighter. You may need to glance down at your airspeed or altitude occassionally, but that's about it really.

 

Good to know. ;)

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9 minutes ago, busdriver said:

 

I experience that only when I have a ground reference or horizon in my FOV. Once air-to-air maneuvering starts, if I'm padlocked and looking out the top of my canopy with only the sky as a background...I'm knackered. Such is my life as a 1GCCFP. 

 

 

Good to know. ;)

Just remember though, you must take anything I say with a grain of salt as a 1GCCFP myself :)

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Posted (edited)

I like to use portions of the cockpit and canopy to give me a general idea of the orientation of my aircraft in really hard maneuvers. Glance at canopy bracing, side walls of the cockpit, mirror, etc and how they’re oriented to the ground and horizon. With time, you’ll develop the muscle memory needed to do crazy maneuvers without ever needing to look ahead except when finally lining up a guns shot or the occasional glance at speed.

 

I spend most of the fight padlocked on the bandit when in close and actively fighting the guy, but I spend most of the approach to him and any time saddled up on his six looking around and checking for other trouble. You can’t do that easily in a scissors fight since your relative positions change so violently and unpredictably, and losing sight of the guy is tantamount to suicide. Enter the fight with surplus energy and with some spare horsepower in your pocket, once you start to feel sluggish and you feel the airplane fighting you, then open up as much as you need to maintain your energy and drop flaps. If you get to know your plane, you’ll be able to tell just through changes in handling characteristics what your energy state is and you can save yourself that unneeded glance at the speedometer.

 

Also, zoom all the way out when dogfighting hard the extra FOV you get is life and death. You really only need to zoom in all the way when you’re ready to shoot or to ID a bogey.

Edited by LemonQuat

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I think a lot of this problem would be solved by fixing the invisible planes bug and the overall difficulty in spotting. taking your eyes of a target even for a second can result in target loss and reacquiring that target is exceedingly difficult especially in a look-down situation. planes essentially disappearing within somewhere like 1-1.5 km when not fully zoomed into that binocular style field of view is a major issue.  

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I always found that RoF could only be flown by me with Track IR or pan view - not padlock... I would fall out of the air if I tried to use padlock.

This is in spite of years of experience with different padlock systems in different flightsims (which I could use easily).

 

The Great Battles series hasn't improved the padlock situation. I've come to suspect that there is an issue with the orientation of what is 'up' for the screen relative to the plane. The padlock behaviour: It will attempt to make the view oriented so it is level with the front of the plane. However, as the view pans around it becomes level with the wing (i.e. left and right become front and back) or the tail... This makes it very hard to assess the aircraft's roll, and thus to assess whether it is climbing or not... and the direction one is turning. At least that was my guess.

 

If anyone else has other theories - I'd love to hear them.

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On 3/23/2020 at 9:51 PM, 9./JG52_PreyStalker said:

 

VR isn't necessary, but head tracking is a game changer. I use the Delan clip and PS3 eye camera set up. Much cheaper than TrackIR and well worth the money. In a combat sim, you are toast without head tracking...

 

https://delanengineering.com/shop/DELANCLiP-Gamer-p43397050

 

What you could try instead of buying headtracking is using the mouse as a view device instead of padlocking. I personaly use this over vr or headtracking to great result. 

 

Below you will find a video of me using an early version of this setup I used for RoF. Bitrate is kinda crap but it shows the potential for it.

 

I have since then refined this setup a lot more for IL2. And now allows me to do nearly everything that someone with headtracking can do.

 

If you want to know more about this feel free to pm me.

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