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2 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

I saw those posts, but it was just a couple of them and some old veterans replied that we the community in general regarded the original FC damage model light years ahead of the one we got in ROF. So the devs can't say we did not voice our opinions.

 

Indeed I've responded to such posts before with "dear god no".

Edited by Oliver88
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17 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

To be honest yeah, if he is referring to the "community unanimously agreeing" that the DM we got with FC was better than RoF then Arthur is right. As I have every now and then in the developer diary discussions seen some people wishing for the old wing shedding. I am definitely not one of them though. Other than the glass wings everything else that I am seeing and hearing when playing the new update is good. But yeah the wings are rather fragile now. Seems would be better now when attacking someone to cause some limited damage to the wings (they either try evade to shake you off leading to them dismantling themselves, else try to keep themselves in one piece through careful manoeuvring leading them to be an easy target for you to continue plugging away at defenceless) rather than going for meat and metal.


Ok. Will rephrase - the vast majority of the community much preferred the 'old-new' DM. I agree - the other stuff in the new DM is great. But the wings are a huge step backwards for FC IMHO. 

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3 minutes ago, emely said:

You guys are just used to flying on planes with wings cast from armored steel.

The majority of these people came from RoF. I'm fairly certain none of those canvas wings can be compared to armored steel :)

 

S!

 

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8 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

 

Indeed I've responded to such posts before with "dear god no".

 

I think we all did one way or another over the years that FC is running, so the devs got enough feedback that in general people praised the original FC damage model. Of course we have a couple players who got attached to the ROF damage model, but they are few and far between. 

 

7 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

But the wings are a huge step backwards for FC IMHO. 

 

The shaking as well. We got back the shaking and wrinkling after a few hits, at least on the D7, Camel and SE5a, but it should be happening will all planes. As it seems, they rolled back the ROF damage model and added some new features like new fire and fuel smoke, which to me is irrelevant.

Edited by SeaW0lf
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3 minutes ago, Stumble said:

The majority of these people came from RoF. I'm fairly certain none of those canvas wings can be compared to armored steel :)

 

S!

 

In general, we can say that all people appeared from about the same very same place 😉

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Ok, after 2h fast-food action and a lot of shooting.

 

It is the RoF technology extracted and maybe a little altered and put into FC - nice story about NEW TECHNOLOGY and good marketing approach "to sell" it as a WHOLE NEW DAMAGE TECHNOLOGY but I am not fooled. I would still like to test it a little further on Flugpark with 2-seater action and team play but I am not expecting to see anything else.

 

Those who played RoF will recognize it instantly, it is the same stuff with a bit better graphics and looks due to 4k skins, that is so far as I can tell.

Maybe for WWII planes it is different - I am only speaking about WWI.

 

RoF vs FC

 

The only difference we still have RoF vs FC lies in the dispersion. (gunnery)

 

S! Sahaj

Edited by 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk
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1 minute ago, US213_Talbot said:

 

Absolutely not.

Yes of course .  And the engines did not light up from a short line, and the planes did not explode more often than they fell to the ground ;-))

I don’t understand why you stubbornly call DM in the circus of the new DM?  It was exactly the same DM RoF, only with new hit box settings.

Today I see a new situation with injuries, for example.  Still - damage to the oil system occurs differently - oil flows out, stains the glass.  But the engine does not lose power, as long as it has enough oil to lubricate.  I alone noticed this?

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19 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

It is the RoF technology extracted and maybe a little altered and put into FC - nice story about NEW TECHNOLOGY and good marketing approach "to sell" it as a WHOLE NEW DAMAGE TECHNOLOGY but I am not fooled. I would still like to test it a little further on Flugpark with 2-seater action and team play but I am not expecting to see anything else.

 

Yeah, it only takes a couple minutes to have that dreaded ROF feel creeping back again. I also did not like that it was being advertised as 'new stuff', especially since most people were complimenting the original FC damage model since day one.

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58 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

 

 

To be honest yeah, if he is referring to the "community unanimously agreeing" that the DM we got with FC was better than RoF then Arthur is right. 

Ordinary British arrogance.  But he really thinks so.

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11 minutes ago, emely said:

Ordinary British arrogance.  But he really thinks so.


I am British also. So let me just say I am not in agreement with your statement. Anything more could say would break rule 7.

Edited by Oliver88
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I'm seeing a lot of comments from people explaining to everyone what all of us supposedly think, yet it's the same few people saying it over and over in this thread. Half of what's said here is pure guesswork. I'll come back when some actual testing has been done.

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3 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:


I am British also. As the three words that would use in response could possibly break rule 7, let me instead just say I am not in agreement with your statement.

In your case, this is ordinary British restraint 😉

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I think things up for grabs in a DM review would be things like having control cables shot away, radiator punctures, oil tank puncture, more detailed aerodynamic damage to the wings and tail.

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At this point it all seems to be about the wings. A few wing hits and no way can you fight on or even dive away.

Not saying its same as RoF just that they're super vulnerable now.

 

The engine and pilot changes look ok initially.

 

 

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At least flying the Camel, D7 and SE5a, the wings are shaking again too, just like they did in ROF after a few hits. The visual damage also seems the same on the elevator and fuselage. It starts wrinkling. Hence why it all indicates that they just rolled it back and added some features on top of it. Whatever it was done, fighting becomes really hard if you get some hits and the wings are folding just with a spit.

 

The weird thing is that they advertised it as "no more folding wings" or something, wasn't it? Was that just for WW2? 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

The weird thing is that they advertised it as "no more folding wings" or something, wasn't it? Was that just for WW2? 

 

Recently I've been getting the crazy notion in my head that it's ALL 'Just for WW2' from here...

But - perhaps we need a community vote, get the full picture, see if the majority of the FC community thinks the DMs really need changed after this update - and ask the testers if they can speak to the devs. 

Edited by US93_Larner
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Did some further testing with some wingmen tonight. Just shocked. Any kind of vertical manoeuvres once your wings have been damaged and they come straight off. They take some punishment in level flight but anything vertical will wreck the plane. At one point in the night I had 3 bullets hit my SPAD's wing, and that was enough for its wings to collapse in a split-S. 

S.E, SPAD and Halb pilots seem to stand to be the most screwed here. The former two now have a drastically reduced chance of pulling out of an escaping dive if their wings are damaged. Without parachutes, the survivability of these planes just went from quite high to very low. Halbs seem to just fall apart if you sneeze on them, level flight or otherwise. 

Edited by US93_Larner
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17 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Did some further testing with some wingmen tonight. Just shocked. Any kind of vertical manoeuvres once your wings have been damaged and they come straight off. They take some punishment in level flight but anything vertical will wreck the plane. At one point in the night I had 3 bullets hit my SPAD's wing, and that was enough for its wings to collapse in a split-S. 

S.E, SPAD and Halb pilots seem to stand to be the most screwed here. The former two now have a drastically reduced chance of pulling out of an escaping dive if their wings are damaged. Without parachutes, the survivability of these planes just went from quite high to very low. Halbs seem to just fall apart if you sneeze on them, level flight or otherwise. 

Yup and once  the plane falls apart the wings just disappear. No bits and pieces fluttering to the ground. 

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8 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

I warned you guys... For all accounts, I think they brought back the ROF damage model and are calling it "the new DM". Same shaking planes after a few hits, wrinkled wings and folding wings. Boy, I never thought that the feeling of being back in ROF would be so bad. 

 

7 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Exactly what I was worried about, and exactly what SW says. It's basically the [edited] RoF DM. 

There was one thing that the community unanimously agreed on being an improvement from RoF.....that planes didn't turn into confetti the second a bullet hit them. Now the Devs have reverted that. Good one. 

They need to seriously spend some time on the WW1 DMs. I'm sure the new changes are a really good improvement.....for all-metal WW2 aircraft...

 

6 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

The shaking as well. We got back the shaking and wrinkling after a few hits, at least on the D7, Camel and SE5a, but it should be happening will all planes. As it seems, they rolled back the ROF damage model and added some new features like new fire and fuel smoke, which to me is irrelevant.

 

6 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

It is the RoF technology extracted and maybe a little altered and put into FC - nice story about NEW TECHNOLOGY and good marketing approach "to sell" it as a WHOLE NEW DAMAGE TECHNOLOGY but I am not fooled. I would still like to test it a little further on Flugpark with 2-seater action and team play but I am not expecting to see anything else.

 

Those who played RoF will recognize it instantly, it is the same stuff with a bit better graphics and looks due to 4k skins, that is so far as I can tell.

Maybe for WWII planes it is different - I am only speaking about WWI.

 

 

 

You don't do your cause any favours by claiming that this whole thing is some simple 'roll back' to ROF DM. That makes no logical sense whatsoever. So they just dug out the ROF DM code and plunked it into the current game?! Considering there is one integrated DM across all titles for all objects, how would a simple reversion like that work in any way? What about all the new WW2 armaments, aircraft constructions, etc? 

 

And the 20+ detailed DM specific changes listed in the DD are just fantasy then?

 

Maybe a little less hysteria would help.

 

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I would be interested to see what conclusions people come back with regarding wing robustness of different aircraft.  Do big wings just make bigger targets, for example.  Do double bays make any percieved difference, do doubled up "flying" wires make any difference, do "drag" wires make any difference ?  Do the mid point struts on the Spad add to it's strength and resistance to damage ?

 

It would be highly ironic, if the bullet dispersion model that in RoF, caused enough, chance, superficial damage to wings to risk damage during manouver,  that it might now be the concentration of fire (lack of the RoF dispersion model) that  has the same, or similar effect in FC.

Edited by HagarTheHorrible
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1 hour ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

I would be interested to see what conclusions people come back with regarding wing robustness of different aircraft.  Do big wings just make bigger targets, for example.  Do double bays make any percieved difference, do doubled up "flying" wires make any difference, do "drag" wires make any difference ?  Do the mid point struts on the Spad add to it's strength and resistance to damage ?

 

It would be highly ironic, if the bullet dispersion model that in RoF, caused enough, chance, superficial damage to wings to risk damage during manouver,  that it might now be the concentration of fire (lack of the RoF dispersion model) that  has the same, or similar effect in FC.

 

Tested all aircraft with a wingman tonight. Dolphin, Halb, Albatros and S.E felt especially weak (but all felt atrociously easy to break up). All planes were rendered virtually unable to dive without losing their wings when they tried to pull up, after about 4 or 5 hits. 

I take it back - it's not the RoF damage model. It's worse.

The new pilot physiology and varying fuel leaks / coolant leaks, as well as different material hit effects, are all great, but I just can't enjoy them alongside the new structural strength of the WW1 birds which is, simply put, broken. 

Edited by US93_Larner
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1 hour ago, J5_Rumey said:

Anyone have anything good to say? Haven't tried but surely there must be someone liking the something?


Yes. The sounds reflecting what has been hit is a great change. The other visual damage states that have now become visible (old damage model skipped over them apparently). I’ve seen fuel leaks appear to spontaneously turn into fires which was interesting. Also think am noticing more system damage (getting a few oil system warnings in the Camel) rather than just the generic engine damage.

 

My initial experiences are that everything else seems to have been good in the update. It’s just the weak crumpling wings part that does to be honest does leave me a little bummed out. What the new model gives the WW2 aircraft it seems to have taken away from the WW1 unfortunately.

 

Quote

These clips show how our wings are much stronger than before and how our improved damage calculations cause a myriad of failures that can bring down a plane, or in some cases, maybe allow you to limp home.

Quote

Remember just because a plane takes a physical beating, doesn't mean all the systems are functioning. A knocked out plane may keep flying for a little while, but it is likely not going to make it home or stay controllable. My point is don't get too hung up on some of these planes surviving multiple HE hits. One good placed burst and your day is likely ruined, but your wings should not fold like a bad poker hand.

 

Edited by Oliver88
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Agreed. Everything else feels great. The "New" wing weakness feels like a huge step backwards. 

I only hope that if the WW1 community can come together and rationally bring it to the devs' attention somehow, we can get something more similar to the 'new-old' wing damage FM back. I'm hoping our testers, who can probably grab the devs' attention better, can help out. 

EDIT: What do we think of having a poll to gauge how the community feels about new DM? I've seen mixed responses in here. 

Edited by US93_Larner
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I'm the last person who should speak about it (DM), but I dont think it's possible to have a different DM for wwI planes and another for WWII planes in the same sim.

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7 minutes ago, ITAF_Bradipo said:

 

I'm the last person who should speak about it (DM), but I dont think it's possible to have a different DM for wwI planes and another for WWII planes in the same sim.

I think FC  can have difrent wings stenght, because it was different before the patch and in the beginning in the early access wings were even more weaker. Common framework is about dm model - rounds calculation and parts resistence can be changed etc.

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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2 hours ago, kendo said:

 

 

 

 

You don't do your cause any favours by claiming that this whole thing is some simple 'roll back' to ROF DM. That makes no logical sense whatsoever. So they just dug out the ROF DM code and plunked it into the current game?! Considering there is one integrated DM across all titles for all objects, how would a simple reversion like that work in any way? What about all the new WW2 armaments, aircraft constructions, etc? 

 

And the 20+ detailed DM specific changes listed in the DD are just fantasy then?

 

Maybe a little less hysteria would help.

 

 

We are specifically talking about WWI here.

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11 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think FC  can have difrent wings stenght, because it was different before the patch and in the beginning in the early access wings were even more weaker. Common framework is about dm model - rounds calculation and parts resistence can be changed etc.


And also surely if they've worked on different material strengths in the recent update they can revisit fabric and wood, as just about every WW2 aircraft is all-metal? The only WW2 plane I can think of in IL2 that it would affect is the Mosquito (off the top of my head) 

EDIT: and the Po-2 (if we can count that!) 

Edited by US93_Larner
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There are positives for sure. I much prefer the new wounding model, and also the striking FX on the metal part of the engine - very cool.

 

The wings issue is going to impact those of us who BnZ more than those who mostly twist and turn on the horizontal. If you’re not a Camel jockey that’s the Spads and SEs on Entente (I’m not including the Dolphin as she’s not really a serious contender in MP).

Edited by No56_Waggaz
Missed out the Dolphin
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18 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:


And also surely if they've worked on different material strengths in the recent update they can revisit fabric and wood, as just about every WW2 aircraft is all-metal? The only WW2 plane I can think of in IL2 that it would affect is the Mosquito (off the top of my head) 

EDIT: and the Po-2 (if we can count that!) 

Quite a few of the Russian planes have wooden wings, like laGG, la5, maybe some others. Also with fabric parts of the fuselage on some.

 

 

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