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Developer Diary 243 - Discussion


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Amazing news. Been a long time coming.

 

Now on the other hand, any plans on changing how the tracers and navlights are displayed in the game?

Currently their both visible from miles away, and the tracers are huge and very slow when viewed from the distance. Almost like observing a star wars battleship duel from the surface of the planet. 

 

Thanks for your work.

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26 minutes ago, ACG_Onebad said:

Amazing news. Been a long time coming.

 

Now on the other hand, any plans on changing how the tracers and navlights are displayed in the game?

Currently their both visible from miles away, and the tracers are huge and very slow when viewed from the distance. Almost like observing a star wars battleship duel from the surface of the planet. 

 

Thanks for your work.

 

I agree with the nav lights.  On the upside, I did report the A20 issue where the bomb door light floats behind the plane and one of the QA staff said they would look into it.  I couldn't get any good screenshots of it, but if others can, PM them to me and I will pass them along.  

 

Depending in light conditions, tracers can be seen from very far away, and *sometimes* should be visible before anything else.  

As far as travel speed, I don't know much about, but I do have a veteran friend who has been shot at from very long distances (adjacent mountain tops) in Afghanistan.  He told me that tracers from those distances seem to fly very slowly and then suddenly get very fast.  Perhaps it has something to do light being exponentially faster than the bullet it's coming from.   

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I am mostly excited about this announcement. The DM can certainly use another look, and it sounds like the dev's are putting in a very detailed effort to improve it. Kudos to them, as always.

 

However, I couldn't help but come away from the DD feeling like TL;DR "incoming HE buff, AP nerf."

 

AP has never felt overpowered or HE underpowered to me as is. Quite the opposite.

 

We'll see, I hope my impression is misplaced...and I do really appreciate the work of the Devs on this!

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29 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I agree with the nav lights.  On the upside, I did report the A20 issue where the bomb door light floats behind the plane and one of the QA staff said they would look into it.  I couldn't get any good screenshots of it, but if others can, PM them to me and I will pass them along.  

 

Depending in light conditions, tracers can be seen from very far away, and *sometimes* should be visible before anything else.  

As far as travel speed, I don't know much about, but I do have a veteran friend who has been shot at from very long distances (adjacent mountain tops) in Afghanistan.  He told me that tracers from those distances seem to fly very slowly and then suddenly get very fast.  Perhaps it has something to do light being exponentially faster than the bullet it's coming from.   


in vr the tracers go by very fast after an initial slow start, just like you always read about. Puts the fear in me! :)

 

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1 hour ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

I am mostly excited about this announcement. The DM can certainly use another look, and it sounds like the dev's are putting in a very detailed effort to improve it. Kudos to them, as always.

 

However, I couldn't help but come away from the DD feeling like TL;DR "incoming HE buff, AP nerf."

 

AP has never felt overpowered or HE underpowered to me as is. Quite the opposite.

 

We'll see, I hope my impression is misplaced...and I do really appreciate the work of the Devs on this!

I just can`t see the point of this kind of attitude. If you read the DD, the goal is to create more accurate simulation of the damage model and weapons. Not to nerf or buff anything. 

 

You said yourself the devs are putting very detailed effort to improve it. That`s good, right?

Edited by LLv24_Zami
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It wasn't long and boring, it was interesting to hear of the level of detail that is needed to damage and down the aircraft. I still want a word with the Pe-2 belly gunner who kills my plane the minute I get under there. His accuracy is fantastic....unlike mine. lol

Happy with all that you are trying to do, THANK YOU

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10 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I just can`t see the point of this kind of attitude. If you read the DD, the goal is to create more accurate simulation of the damage model and weapons. Not to nerf or buff anything. 

 

You said yourself the devs are putting very detailed effort to improve the it. That`s good, right?

Fair enough, I apologize for the negative attitude. Yes it is, very good. More accurate is definitely what I want to see.

 

I guess I'll just say I hope more accurate HE damage modeling also includes things like minengeschoss sometimes failing to detonate, and ricocheting off the target before detonating, at realistic rates.

 

Regardless, I appreciate the work the dev team is putting in to improve an already fantastic sim. Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, scotsmanFlyingscotsman said:

It wasn't long and boring, it was interesting to hear of the level of detail that is needed to damage and down the aircraft. I still want a word with the Pe-2 belly gunner who kills my plane the minute I get under there. His accuracy is fantastic....unlike mine. lol

Happy with all that you are trying to do, THANK YOU


Pe-2 Gunner: "Git Gud, Tovarisch"
 

4 minutes ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Fair enough, I apologize for the negative attitude. Yes it is, very good. More accurate is definitely what I want to see.

 

I guess I'll just say I hope more accurate HE damage modeling also includes things like minengeschoss sometimes failing to detonate, and ricocheting off the target before detonating, at realistic rates.

 

Regardless, I appreciate the work the dev team is putting in to improve an already fantastic sim. Thanks!

They do mention outside explosions doing less than inside explosions, which implies that when the mschoss explodes on the outside of the aircraft skin it will do less damage compared to inside the airframe.

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2 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

I guess I'll just say I hope more accurate HE damage modeling also includes things like minengeschoss sometimes failing to detonate, and ricocheting off the target before detonating, at realistic rates.

Weapon malfunctions are not modeled AFAIK, I think lots of WW2 weapons did that sometimes. Ricocheting is also universal, I think every round would do that when the circumstances are right. 

Edited by LLv24_Zami
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1 hour ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

As far as travel speed, I don't know much about, but I do have a veteran friend who has been shot at from very long distances (adjacent mountain tops) in Afghanistan.  He told me that tracers from those distances seem to fly very slowly and then suddenly get very fast.  Perhaps it has something to do light being exponentially faster than the bullet it's coming from.   

It has to do with the fact, that everything looks slow when viewed from larger distance. Look at an aircraft in the sky flying with 900+km/h in 10km altitude, it hardly moves. It is because something moving far away, it has a much smaller angle speed in your view, than when moving close to you with the same speed. While moving only 1 degree in your view in larger distance it moves in the same time maybe 20 degrees when you see it close to you.

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Wow this new DM sounds AMAZING! It has been a very long time I have been this excited for an update!!
But I have a question, will the tires be a separate component to be damaged - so when landing with flat tires or even too hard landings causing tires to blow up?

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4 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I'm curious has anyone done a study of how long it takes on average for the finished aircraft to be in game after the initial screen shots like these of the Razorback. I'd like a guess-timate of when we can expect to see the Hurricane. Its been a while since the pre-order screen hots have been shown.

 

12-15 weeks

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4 hours ago, smink1701 said:

Very nice update.
Have a question… If landing gear is hit or hydraulics damaged will landing gear drop? Was playing Cliffs and this happened to my Spitfire and it’s a really nice, historically correct and immersive effect. 

This would be great , This was a mod back in Il2 1946 too. This works really well in Cliffs of Dover , you also get tire damage . You see this in a lot of gun cam footage.

Much better than the landing gear covers getting shot off which is not at all realistic.

Great update , the Razorback looks awesome!

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That razorback looks great, so far, of course. But, naturally, the DF Loop antenna will not be on the release model. It wasn't used in Europe. Just about all of the photos I've seen of CBI based jugs had them, though. And there's a photo in Warren Bodie's book that shows a lineup of razorback Thunderbolts in Iceland equipped with them. 

But the map that's coming is Europe...so, no DF Loop antennas.

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"Thus, situations when wings or control surfaces fall off an airplane in a battle will arise much less often. To break the rear part of the fuselage by shooting will become very hard."

 

- Great news 👍 This has always been my main beef with the  damage model.

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5 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I'd like a guess-timate of when we can expect to see the Hurricane. Its been a while since the pre-order screen hots have been shown.

You know wat's even better than flying a Hurri?
Flying a Hurri and seeing the White Cliffs under your wingtip! 😇
Hurricane AND BoN. Both pre-ordered. And more or less patiently waiiiiiiiiiting...

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2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

It has to do with the fact, that everything looks slow when viewed from larger distance. Look at an aircraft in the sky flying with 900+km/h in 10km altitude, it hardly moves. It is because something moving far away, it has a much smaller angle speed in your view, than when moving close to you with the same speed. While moving only 1 degree in your view in larger distance it moves in the same time maybe 20 degrees when you see it close to you.

 

Even on a mostly flat co-alt trajectory?  My friend who told me this was infantry, not a pilot.  

2 hours ago, scotsmanFlyingscotsman said:

 I still want a word with the Pe-2 belly gunner who kills my plane the minute I get under there. 

 

And I want a word with the 110 and 87 gunners, who in multiplayer, sometimes shoot downward through the tail (with 0 self damage) and nails you, thus eliminating the excess weight of a belly gunner and his equipment.  

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1 hour ago, Poochnboo said:

That razorback looks great, so far, of course. But, naturally, the DF Loop antenna will not be on the release model. It wasn't used in Europe. Just about all of the photos I've seen of CBI based jugs had them, though. And there's a photo in Warren Bodie's book that shows a lineup of razorback Thunderbolts in Iceland equipped with them. 

But the map that's coming is Europe...so, no DF Loop antennas.


It’s probably going to be a mod.  Just like it is for the bubble top.

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1 hour ago, Poochnboo said:

That razorback looks great, so far, of course. But, naturally, the DF Loop antenna will not be on the release model. It wasn't used in Europe. Just about all of the photos I've seen of CBI based jugs had them, though. And there's a photo in Warren Bodie's book that shows a lineup of razorback Thunderbolts in Iceland equipped with them. 

But the map that's coming is Europe...so, no DF Loop antennas.

It will be in game no doubt for the same reason the D-28 has it. It wasn't used in western europe but there's no reason for them to exclude it based on that alone. D-22s flew in russia and in most other theaters.

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“At the end I'd like to accompany this boring long-read text with some interesting pictures.”

 

Dont sell yourself short. Pics are always great but this is one of the best/most informative posts in quite a while. Thank the team for all the hard work on the DM. I’m very excited to see the update.

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10 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

And I want a word with the 110 and 87 gunners, who in multiplayer, sometimes shoot downward through the tail (with 0 self damage) and nails you, thus eliminating the excess weight of a belly gunner and his equipment.  

You guys realize that the gunners are controlled by the mission maker. There are several levels. If it`s ace, it`ll shoot you down. Like in WoL

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4 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

You guys realize that the gunners are controlled by the mission maker. There are several levels. If it`s ace, it`ll shoot you down. Like in WoL

 

I realize how far below the 6 o'clock line of a 110 or 87 is needed, and the need to be and not be too far left or right either to make the gunner unable to shoot, but sometimes get shot when I'm right exactly there.  If the whole freaking tail of the 110 or 87 is blocking the gunner and he can still shoot, there's an issue. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Even on a mostly flat co-alt trajectory?  My friend who told me this was infantry, not a pilot.  

It doesn't matter. Take another example a car passing you with 200km/h in a distance of 10m and a distance of 1000m. It looks much faster, when passing in 10m distance. 

Look through a camera and count the seconds the car needs to pass your view in both distances. Less than one second at 10m and quite a while in 1000m.

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22 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I realize how far below the 6 o'clock line of a 110 or 87 is needed, and the need to be and not be too far left or right either to make the gunner unable to shoot, but sometimes get shot when I'm right exactly there.  If the whole freaking tail of the 110 or 87 is blocking the gunner and he can still shoot, there's an issue. 

 

If that`s so common, I`m sure you`ll have a track of that, just post it here: 

 

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The best damage model gets better... it is exciting because one gets the sense that our understanding of air combat will actually be improved by such efforts at simulation of the past!

 

I also do hope that the single sentence about engines means that radials will be a little bit tougher!

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7 hours ago, Danziger said:

This gets me thinking about something that would be useful. Instead of choosing either axis or allies, it would be great if we could choose what nation like in the old Il-2. This way I can choose to fly as Russian in a P47 and have a Russian pilot model in the plane instead of the US model.

 

According to the below post by Jason this functionality is coming.

 

 

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7 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Weapon malfunctions are not modeled AFAIK, I think lots of WW2 weapons did that sometimes. Ricocheting is also universal, I think every round would do that when the circumstances are right. 

 

That is true, but the circumstances being "right" is not the same for every round. Basically, on a given surface and angle, ricochets are more common for rounds that are a) slow and b) have low sectional density.   This would make a significant difference to the effectiveness of large, light shells in real conditions compared to ground  tests carried out at short range at favourable angles.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the read on new DM, here's my 2 cents. As for the P47, I hope the DM is getting a serious look, because in the sim, it seems the P47 is much weaker to me, and can be killed much easier  than in real life, where it is a beast, and with it's 12 cylinder wasp engine, I've read it can take a TON of damage, could even fly home with one or two cylinders shot off. And while I'm on the P47, I find it to be a dog in IL2, to the point that I rarely fly it, finding almost all opponents can outrun it. Now could I point out DM for Flying Circus, I just recently picked it up and am thoroughly enjoying it, although I'm really disappointed in the DM. It seems I can only bring down an enemy when I finally hit his engine.  How about some good visuals with torn fabric being ripped up and shredded with bullet strikes? So far I've seen none of that.  Maybe even landing gear half shot off and dangling when you hit the cross braces? Just my humble opinion. Thanks.

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