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[MOD] Moving infantry asset


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On 3/4/2020 at 7:18 AM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Pg ratinngs do not hinder the sells as one can see looking at top selling games. Yes nonsense , especially that average age of flights sim players is like 30 years old ?

 

The concern was raised by Oleg Maddox at one point... and it wasn't about the ESRB but about some European countries which use a different system. The U.S. is much more comfortable with graphic violence than it is with foul language, adult themes (e.g. history) or nudity... but it isn't the norm worldwide.

 

On 3/7/2020 at 6:12 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

 

@vonGraf is right. As my OP says, this mod "doesn't add infantry to existing missions, but mission builders can use it as an asset for future missions (or modify their existing ones). It doesn't add infantry to career or quick missions either, nor is it likely it ever will."

 

Adding infantry to quick missions or careers would require coding to get it to work properly, or some heavy scripting for what could be mediocre results (one could for instance edit the [career no.]\blocks_career\ground\frontline_battle\frontline_battle_vx.group files, if anyone is interested).

 

I wonder if one could create a moving invisible object, which couldn't collide with other objects but could collide with weapons? Then one could give it very low thresholds for 'abandoning' and very high 'morale' recovery rates... so as it moved across the battlefield any weapons fire would cause it to spawn infantry, but if the suppressing fire stopped for a moment it would then become able to spawn infantry again?

 

It sounds like it could work - but only if one can create a hitbox which can absorb fire but doesn't collide with other objects.

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29 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I wonder if one could create a moving invisible object, which couldn't collide with other objects but could collide with weapons? Then one could give it very low thresholds for 'abandoning' and very high 'morale' recovery rates... so as it moved across the battlefield any weapons fire would cause it to spawn infantry, but if the suppressing fire stopped for a moment it would then become able to spawn infantry again?

You can have a separate hitbox and collision box. However, the way you describe it (I assume you want to replace some of the vehicles in a frontline battle with this moving spawner?) would most likely not work well in a campaign. If you'd register it with the campaign system, it would also show up in e.g. a vehicle column, where it would just take up an empty space. If any such spawner makes any kind of turn (e.g. to avoid a tree), it would simply result in a single line of soldiers running 500m into a random direction, and that would just look weird. Besides, there's no such thing as a "morale recovery rate" ;). It's a one-time trigger. Although, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it might be possible to repair the spawner and trigger it again, but I didn't test that, and again you'd need some heavy mission logic in your mission templates for that.

 

Implementing it into career missions should be possible by editing the file I mentioned (the frontline battle template is somewhat suited to an infantry assault), however the only proper way to have it in quick missions is by creating additional mission types and ldf databases.

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46 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You can have a separate hitbox and collision box. However, the way you describe it (I assume you want to replace some of the vehicles in a frontline battle with this moving spawner?) would most likely not work well in a campaign. If you'd register it with the campaign system, it would also show up in e.g. a vehicle column, where it would just take up an empty space. If any such spawner makes any kind of turn (e.g. to avoid a tree), it would simply result in a single line of soldiers running 500m into a random direction, and that would just look weird. Besides, there's no such thing as a "morale recovery rate" ;). It's a one-time trigger. Although, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it might be possible to repair the spawner and trigger it again, but I didn't test that, and again you'd need some heavy mission logic in your mission templates for that.

 

Could the following be used to cause a crew to bail out multiple times?

 

RegenerationPercent =

and

EscapeHealth=

 

I've had the impression of anti-aircraft gun crews bailing out and then having them start shooting at me again sometime later. There is a similar effect with trucks... they will spawn people running away from them when they are under attack (even when undamaged)... but then return to the road and start driving again... so that could be used as well.

 

P.S.

It wouldn't be perfect... but it could give a vague impression of infantry appearing from under cover (e.g. depressions) and then spreading out as they head for other depressions before taking cover again... so a different effect - but still potentially an interesting one.

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22 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Could the following be used to cause a crew to bail out multiple times?

 

RegenerationPercent =

and

EscapeHealth=

 

I've had the impression of anti-aircraft gun crews bailing out and then having them start shooting at me again sometime later. There is a similar effect with trucks... they will spawn people running away from them when they are under attack (even when undamaged)... but then return to the road and start driving again... so that could be used as well.

That might actually work (as might a Command:Damage MCU set to repair, or a nearby vehicle with Repair Friendlies set), however I haven't tested anything yet. My personal preference would go to the Command:Damage solution for scripted missions, as that gives the mission creator more control over the timing of any second wave.

 

22 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It wouldn't be perfect... but it could give a vague impression of infantry appearing from under cover (e.g. depressions) and then spreading out as they head for other depressions before taking cover again... so a different effect - but still potentially an interesting one.

Hmm, interesting idea. You could indeed place short-range, single-soldier spawners at a lot of places and let them trigger by e.g. machine gun fire. The only problem would be that they'd start to run when they come under fire, rather than remain in cover and run when they're not under fire :scratch_one-s_head:

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6 hours ago, 127Tom said:

I installed the mod (JSGME) and started the mission. I flew to the target area but I did not see any moving infantry

Did you fly low enough? In the known bugs listed in my opening post, it says:

- The WW1 and late WW2 infantry becomes invisible at a relatively short range (500m or so). I suspect that this is a problem with the LOD settings, somewhere in the .mgm files. It may even be a bug in stock Flying Circus/BOBP, as I didn't change any of the soldier assets. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the LOD system used in IL2 can fix this. The early WW2 infantry (USSR/GER), meanwhile, works correctly and is easily visible from a long distance.

 

So be sure you're actually close enough to the ground. Alternatively, you can test the other mission, "Spawner Test", which includes the WW2 russian and early German infantry, which have a *much* higher visible distance. Please let me know if this solves your problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As amazing as this is, and it is... @AEthelraedUnraed

 

Is anyone else monumentally perturbed by the fact that the actual, no s#&t, top-flite developers of this series haven't done this themselves? I mean like Jesus F&#ing Christ, that's just sad. The IL-2 series as it progresses is increasingly becoming one devoid immersion and has instead devolved into a paint-by-numbers campaign and MP experience.

 

Thank you for this, mate. If I had a trophy to award I'd present it. But I don't, so I'll drink a Leffe and Spatan in your name and donate to your Patreon. If you have one?    

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13 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

As amazing as this is, and it is... @AEthelraedUnraed

 

Is anyone else monumentally perturbed by the fact that the actual, no s#&t, top-flite developers of this series haven't done this themselves? I mean like Jesus F&#ing Christ, that's just sad. The IL-2 series as it progresses is increasingly becoming one devoid immersion and has instead devolved into a paint-by-numbers campaign and MP experience.

 

Thank you for this, mate. If I had a trophy to award I'd present it. But I don't, so I'll drink a Leffe and Spatan in your name and donate to your Patreon. If you have one?    

 

Det - I like your work. You seem like a good dude. But lower your volume please. Stop calling us dipshits for not making something you want and making it sound like we are incompetent. I'm getting tired of it.  WE HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES and making infantry is a luxury for us. We don't make a shooter, we make a flight and armor sim where we focus on the vehicles, not the people per se. I'm moving HEAVEN and EARTH to make cool new infantry and other human models. Please just take it down a notch. I've heard everyone who has posted about infantry.

 

Jason

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Terrif’ Vid! I assume this is someone’s custom mission? If I understand this mod correctly even if we’ve installed it, we won’t see evidence of these troops in old missions but only in new missions & campaigns with new troops built in ? Another question: when these troops are in a mission which key will allow me to see them in action...F5 is the key that I now use to see the various allied & enemy vehicles , artillery ,boats etc.- would it this same key?

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6 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Terrif’ Vid! I assume this is someone’s custom mission? If I understand this mod correctly even if we’ve installed it, we won’t see evidence of these troops in old missions but only in new missions & campaigns with new troops built in ? Another question: when these troops are in a mission which key will allow me to see them in action...F5 is the key that I now use to see the various allied & enemy vehicles , artillery ,boats etc.- would it this same key?

 

Yes this is my custom mission and the soldiers are only there because I put them there. F5 allows you to see where they spawn yes, but I used F11 to get a better shot. 

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1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

Can you PM me a copy...I'd love to give it a try.It remends me of an action described in Spearhead , a book written by a friend of mine Adam Makos..

 

I am currently making the mission better so you can have an interesting battle. The only thing is after the tank is knocked out, the mission is over so it will be quite short. Also, while Im making the mission, could you tell me how to share the file? I haven't shared missions before.

 

Also, you know Adam Makos? Cool! I have his book 'A Higher Call' sitting right in front of me.

 

Lemsip

 

Edited by Lemsip
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On 3/20/2020 at 6:33 PM, Jason_Williams said:

Det - I like your work. You seem like a good dude. But lower your volume please. Stop calling us dipshits for not making something you want and making it sound like we are incompetent. I'm getting tired of it.  WE HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES and making infantry is a luxury for us. We don't make a shooter, we make a flight and armor sim where we focus on the vehicles, not the people per se. I'm moving HEAVEN and EARTH to make cool new infantry and other human models. Please just take it down a notch. I've heard everyone who has posted about infantry.

 

I'd like to make one thing clear about my mod. However much I can understand that some people get frustrated by the fact that some things like infantry aren't implemented, I don't think that's to blame on the developers, and my mod is certainly not meant to show that the devs are not capable or whatever. As Jason says, IL2 is (mainly) a flight sim so infantry is of secondary importance next to things like the new DM which is now in the make. As such, I think that mods like mine are a great tool to help the devs and supplement the game content so that the devs can focus on the important stuff, rather than replace the developers. Let's be honest - there wouldn't be an infantry mod if there wasn't a great game to mod in the first place. So keep in mind that this mod is meant to supplement an already excellent game instead of finish an unfinished one.

 

Overall, I think my mod is just a simple "hack" of pre-existing game content and IMO does not reach the quality standards that would be expected from a game like IL2 (the infantry cannot do much besides run a pre-set distance straight forward, and perhaps die on the way). To get the infantry anywhere near a state that would warrant inclusion in the game (turning, firing, taking cover, ...), it would require weeks of coding, animating and bugfixing, if my own programming experience is anything to go by. A quick hack would be to make each soldier a vehicle (I tried to, but couldn't get the animator to work :(), but what impact would that have on CPU? And besides if a mission builder would have to manually place and script each soldier in a massive frontline assault, how many mission builders would realistically include more than let's say 10 soldiers in any given mission? You see: it's not so easy to implement a whole new feature like infantry. (Besides, when scanning through game files to figure out how I could create infantry, I seem to recall having seen the occasional pointer to what seems to be somewhat more advanced infantry that was tested with or is still in the making. For instance all bot controllers include a CrawlSpeed variable - why would you need a crawling speed if there's currently no crawling soldiers? So I think we all can still have hope that one day there will be fully functional infantry. In the meantime, there's this mod :salute:)

 

TLDR; we should be grateful that IL2 is already so excellent that we have the luxury to whine on little things like this.

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8 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Overall, I think my mod is just a simple "hack" of pre-existing game content and IMO does not reach the quality standards that would be expected from a game like IL2 (the infantry cannot do much besides run a pre-set distance straight forward, and perhaps die on the way). To get the infantry anywhere near a state that would warrant inclusion in the game (turning, firing, taking cover, ...), it would require weeks of coding, animating and bugfixing, if my own programming experience is anything to go by. A quick hack would be to make each soldier a vehicle (I tried to, but couldn't get the animator to work :(), but what impact would that have on CPU? And besides if a mission builder would have to manually place and script each soldier in a massive frontline assault, how many mission builders would realistically include more than let's say 10 soldiers in any given mission? You see: it's not so easy to implement a whole new feature like infantry. (Besides, when scanning through game files to figure out how I could create infantry, I seem to recall having seen the occasional pointer to what seems to be somewhat more advanced infantry that was tested with or is still in the making. For instance all bot controllers include a CrawlSpeed variable - why would you need a crawling speed if there's currently no crawling soldiers? So I think we all can still have hope that one day there will be fully functional infantry. In the meantime, there's this mod :salute:)

When the game was initially released, it was possible to place individual soldiers in the mission editor. There was also a list of animation commands for the soldiers, but most of them never worked, so obviously this feature was never fully developed. At some point the devs removed the possibility to place soldiers.

 

Here two old screenshots I created when placing soldiers was still possible. One of the things that didn't worked at the time was lowering the soldiers heads.

 

post-348-0-73012000-1431438256.thumb.jpg.b3a72aaf52ad5cf5abb07c86018518a0.jpg

 

post-348-0-10068200-1430410487.thumb.jpg.4c8ac84de94d94b39ec950478456ae29.jpg

Edited by Juri_JS
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On 3/23/2020 at 8:31 AM, Blitzen said:

Can you PM me a copy...I'd love to give it a try.It remends me of an action described in Spearhead , a book written by a friend of mine Adam Makos..

 

Ok after figuring out how to upload mission files, here is the Cologne Tank Duel. Please let me know if the file works as I haven't done this before. It is an expanded version of the video, starting outside the city and working your way to the cathedral. Everything in the mission works fine, just be wary that the Panther can kill you in one shot.

 

Lesmip

 

Cologne tank duel.zip

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Love the mod, great initiative! 

 

Regarding the game in general, I think even having inanimate soldiers that just stand still would be nice to add some flavor to the airfields. Something that doesn't  kill perfomance and does not require animations could be a good first step. Ideas:

  • Soldier standing guard 
  • Mechanics sitting on some boxes
  • Observers with binoculars 
  • Mechanics near/under a plane in a working pose
  • Pilots sitting on chairs.

 

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  • 2 months later...

I just found this mod and am truly impressed with it.  Stunning mod AEthelraedUnraed.  KUDOS! 👌

And @ Lemsip; Nice vid!  👍  Makes me consider getting Tank Crew.

 

After some basic testing, looking at the mod in the ME and reading the instructions, I would like to try a couple of things.  But before I do anything, being as I only know how to install mods and  n o t h i n g  about making or tweaking them, I have a couple of questions;

 

Modifications Question(s):

 

In the [CrewEscape] section;

 

EscapeHealth=0.95f
Does this change when they fall down?

Is it like a Durability value?
    
EscapeAtLeast=5
Number of "escapees" correct?  Any known max limit?
    
DistanceToRun=500.0f
Any max known distance?

 

EscapePos=-1.2,0,0
Does this line determine if they "escape" in a straight line and the spacing?

If so which digit does what?

 

EscapeVisArg=1000
Is this a visibility distance in (?meters?)

 

For the lines 'EscapeHealth' and 'DistanceToRun' what does the 'f' stand for?  Or does it matter?

 

I'd like to get up to 100 men, in lines of 10, from 10 separate objects, running 5000 meters, understanding that some will fall en route and at 5000 meters only one may be left standing.

This is just a maximum number.  Would I need a Cray computer to achieve that?  (i.e. am I asking too much of the game?)

 

Thanks In Advace

 

 

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On 3/30/2020 at 6:35 AM, Jade_Monkey said:

Love the mod, great initiative! 

 

Regarding the game in general, I think even having inanimate soldiers that just stand still would be nice to add some flavor to the airfields. Something that doesn't  kill perfomance and does not require animations could be a good first step. Ideas:

  • Soldier standing guard 
  • Mechanics sitting on some boxes
  • Observers with binoculars 
  • Mechanics near/under a plane in a working pose
  • Pilots sitting on chairs.

 

Totally agree. Static figures would bring some 'life' to airfields like they did in Il2 1946. 

Edited by sammydee
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I'll answer your questions one at a time 😉

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

In the [CrewEscape] section;

 

EscapeHealth=0.95f
Does this change when they fall down?

Is it like a Durability value?   

Nope, alas. This gives the amount of damage when they begin to spawn. So if a spawner has 100 hitpoints, the soldiers will start spawning once health drops below 95. That's why you start the spawning sequence using a damage command.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

EscapeAtLeast=5
Number of "escapees" correct?  Any known max limit?   

Correct. The max I tested was 20 I think, but it may work with much more.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

DistanceToRun=500.0f
Any max known distance?

Not that I know of. But as each soldier has a chance to randomly drop down at some point, the further you get the fewer people actually come this far. With 500m,  I estimate less than 10% of soldiers are still alive near the end.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

EscapePos=-1.2,0,0
Does this line determine if they "escape" in a straight line and the spacing?

If so which digit does what?

This is basically the position they'll spawn, relative to the location of the object (z,x,y). So, -1.2,0,0 means the soldiers will spawn 1.2m behind the object.

As spawned soldiers run away from the object, with some random offset, this also determines the direction they'll run into. The further away the spawn point is from the object location, the straighter the line will be. With an offset of 0,0,0, they'd run in all directions. 0.5,0,0 would give the general direction of "forward" but might be a bit more left or right. The default of -1.2,0,0 gives a more or less straight line backwards.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

EscapeVisArg=1000

 

Is this a visibility distance in (?meters?)

The visibility distance is determined in the soldier objects themselves, not the spawner. No idea what EscapeVisArg is, though. All vehicles that spawn people have it, so I thought I'd just leave it.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

For the lines 'EscapeHealth' and 'DistanceToRun' what does the 'f' stand for?  Or does it matter?

I'm not a Dev, but I am a reasonably experienced programmer so I'm willing to bet a few bucks it stands for "float". This is just one of the different ways to store a number, along with other types such as integer, double, fixed and long. Float allows the use of fractional numbers with a reasonable tradeoff between speed and accuracy. No idea what would happen if you changed it or left it out though. It might default to another datatype, which could lead to unexpected results.

 

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

I'd like to get up to 100 men, in lines of 10, from 10 separate objects, running 5000 meters, understanding that some will fall en route and at 5000 meters only one may be left standing.

This is just a maximum number.  Would I need a Cray computer to achieve that?  (i.e. am I asking too much of the game?)

100 men should be easily doable, even on a mediocre PC.

 

5000m is harder to achieve though, because as I said most if not all will drop down long before that. Besides, they run at only 3m/s so running 5000m would take a whopping 28 minutes.

If you really want long runs such as this, I suggest you build it up in stages. Let them run towards a forest, where you've got a second line of spawners available. Just trigger the new spawners when the first wave reaches the forest (you know when that'll be as you know the speed of 3m/s). Probably more realistic anyway, as you'd generally run from cover to cover instead of 5000m across the open fields.

 

I hope this clears up your questions:salute:

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Thank you AEthelraedUnraed.  Your answers were clear, concise and very, very helpful.  👍

The more I play around with this the more I'm liking it. 👍

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On 3/20/2020 at 2:35 AM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

O read on Ru forums (25 question for Jason) that they are doing something with infantry , it could be something similar - finger crossed :))

 

Wow, if correct, this is most gratifying. 😲

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/10/2020 at 4:13 AM, jollyjack said:

@Lemsip, I think the white splashing tank tracks are because the Rheinland map sub-settings are not set to summer, but winter ...

 

Yes you're right. This was intentional as the winter sub-settings make the mission look colder and more wintery, as the actual event was.

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On 3/4/2020 at 7:12 AM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 

You are killing pilots , gunners , observers, tank drivers which are real person avatars in the game  but you have objection destroying the AI soldiers ?

 

Not me. I'm a equal opportunity AI killer. 😐

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  • 1 month later...

This is awesome. If I ever make another Stalingrad campaign I will fill the city up with soldiers.  When I can get Starlink out on the farm I will fill up Stalingrad with soldiers for co-op or a server.

Edited by NETSCAPE
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