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Iceni_Queen

Take-off in the FW190 D-9

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I have tried a dozen times to take off in the FW-190 D-9. Every time, I engine reves uo (only on this plane) and it starts to spin fast to the left. I have tried locking breaks, hard rudder in both left and right, and the plane spins fast to the left and crashes. The funny thing is, I noticed my co-pilots have the same thing happening. If I turn off the ending, and start it back up, right away it spins to the left fast and crashes. How do you take off this bird?

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9 minutes ago, Iceni_Queen said:

I have tried a dozen times to take off in the FW-190 D-9. Every time, I engine reves uo (only on this plane) and it starts to spin fast to the left. I have tried locking breaks, hard rudder in both left and right, and the plane spins fast to the left and crashes. The funny thing is, I noticed my co-pilots have the same thing happening. If I turn off the ending, and start it back up, right away it spins to the left fast and crashes. How do you take off this bird?

 

Pull the stick fully back during your engine run up and take off to lock the tail wheel . You can then ease the back pressure on the stick when you gain rudder authority (airspeed).

Edited by bzc3lk
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2 minutes ago, Iceni_Queen said:

How do you do it when you have a plane in front of you? It will slam into the lead plane

 

 

Wait till they take off or are out of the way?

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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The problem is, as soon as I unpause, the plane reves up and starts to spin. I have throttle off, but it acts only on this plane like it is full throttle

 

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If having throttle at 0 is not working when starting mission then you could try to press brakes to full as soon as you unpause and throttle down to 0 as fast as you can.

Edited by hayraddin

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Maybe it is at full throttle, check your axis setting, there is a reverse axis selection option.

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49 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Maybe it is at full throttle, check your axis setting, there is a reverse axis selection option.

What [CPT] posted, do you know how to check your settings?

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2 hours ago, Iceni_Queen said:

The problem is, as soon as I unpause, the plane reves up and starts to spin. I have throttle off, but it acts only on this plane like it is full throttle

 

 

That shouldn't happen. Make sure your throttle axis is bound correctly. When you unpause the aircraft's throttle should be at idle and you can verify that by looking at the throttle in the cockpit.

 

If it's all the way forward you may have a control issue.

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The thing is, it's completely possible to take off (while staying on runway axis) without locking the tailwheel. You just need a bit of right rudder.
Are you sure your rudder is working correctly?

Edited by JG300_Faucon

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On 2/29/2020 at 12:19 PM, Iceni_Queen said:

Every time, I engine reves uo (only on this plane) and it starts to spin fast to the left. I have tried locking breaks, hard rudder in both left and right, and the plane spins fast to the left and crashes. The funny thing is, I noticed my co-pilots have the same thing happening. 

I think I know what your problem is - it's too much cross wind at take off.

 

I ran into exactly the same problem the other day while trying to take off in a Dora 9. Even with full right rudder, the plane just went to the left. And the AI pilots didn't manage the take off either. My own solution was to first accelerate only slowly, while applying right side break. After a few seconds I applied full right rudder and also full throttle. That worked for me, but the AI was still spinning around their planes on the ground. The wind during that mission was 9m/s. So I finally just skipped that mission and just with the next one and with a wind of only 4m/s, no problems at all for me or the AI.

 

Seems the AI has some problems taking off in strong cross winds, at least in the Dora 9 (I haven't so far seen this problem with any other aircraft). 

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Don't want to steal the topic but I had the same problem trying to take of the Hs129 . As soon as any throttle was applied I was doing donuts, and no amount of rudder was going to correct it.  Tried the tail wheel lock command but it didn't seem to work.  Does stick back to lock the tail wheel apply to the Hs129 as well?

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13 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Don't want to steal the topic but I had the same problem trying to take of the Hs129 . As soon as any throttle was applied I was doing donuts, and no amount of rudder was going to correct it.  Tried the tail wheel lock command but it didn't seem to work.  Does stick back to lock the tail wheel apply to the Hs129 as well?

Hmm, that never happened to me in a Hs129 but yes, stick back should lock the tail wheel.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Don't want to steal the topic but I had the same problem trying to take of the Hs129 . As soon as any throttle was applied I was doing donuts, and no amount of rudder was going to correct it.  Tried the tail wheel lock command but it didn't seem to work.  Does stick back to lock the tail wheel apply to the Hs129 as well?

The duck does not have a way to lock the tail wheel.  

 

I takeoff with boost on, auto prop pitch and 1 click of flaps for takeoff flaps.  With the brakes on, increase throttle to 100% and let the plane start moving.  Release the brakes and tap the brakes for any steering until you speed up and then start steering with the rudder.

 

Others have mentioned pulling back on the stick to make it a little more stable.

Edited by Plurp

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1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

and no amount of rudder was going to correct it.

Once it starts the swing around, you‘re passenger. It is the rule that you counter even the slightest yaw with immediate and strong corrections on the rudder. It is the opposite of how you should fly her. That‘s all there is to it and it works with all planes.

 

Full power (best props set manually to full fine pitch), the duck takes of without the need of the brakes to control her, as any other aircraft in this sim. If you feel that you you need brakes on top of the rudder, then you blew it already at that point.

 

Pulling back the stick helps a bit, lifting the tailwheel early by pushing forward makes the plane yaw due to changes in p force and mostly gyro, at a speed where you do not have that much rudder control yet. If you do that to save take off distance, you should be able to make the plane depart without even thinking of the brakes.

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As for rudder control: i hardware modded my warthog slew button with a button from Deltasim. Recomendable !

It needs some s curve fine tuning as default it's far too sensitive. And yes, pulling back the stick with Focke Wulfs, Spits, and more is the trick, still not always easy ..

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Why didn't they have lockable tail wheels in the spit and La-5? Seems like a no brainer considering the value of the a/c and the accident rates.

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2 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

Why didn't they have lockable tail wheels in the spit and La-5?

Beacuse if what you are used to is a skid, then taking off from a grass field with a small trolley in the back is perfectly acceptable. These aircraft were not designed to todays expectations, much less todays use.

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Posted (edited)

The HS 129 is to be treated like the JU 88. Always let it roll straight for a bit before take off if not straight from parked. Look at the instrument witch way she want to go it shows before she does and correct it. Take off using manual pitch , both on 0 % 

All FW 190 got tail wheel lock by pulling the stick back. If you need to turn simply push stick forward. 
The ground handling in this game is not always realistic. 
But if you take the JU 88 it was regarded a very good plane in all ways except from the ground handling and take off. Where it was regarded as a challenge. 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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9 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Don't want to steal the topic but I had the same problem trying to take of the Hs129

 

When is it not a problem just to take off with that thing?

 

 

It is the only plane in the sim where I feel I have to use differential wheel brake during the first few seconds of the run just to keep it from veering off, as it goes over the rudder's ability to steer. After it picks up some speed the rudder authority rises and then rudder becomes strong enough.

 

I feel though that the issue mebtioned in the OP is not that.

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7 hours ago, danielprates said:

When is it not a problem just to take off with that thing?

Well, if the player is struggling with the take off it's one thing. But if at the same time the AI is not able to take off either, then there must be something wrong.

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25 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

Well, if the player is struggling with the take off it's one thing. But if at the same time the AI is not able to take off either, then there must be something wrong.

 

Thus me saying on my post, that my opinnion applies to individually taking off with the henschel, but (in the part you erased from the quote), that not appearing to be the case with the situation reported on the OP (sigh).

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3 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Thus me saying on my post, that my opinnion applies to individually taking off with the henschel, but (in the part you erased from the quote), that not appearing to be the case with the situation reported on the OP (sigh).

All the comments in this thread (with the exception of the original poster and myself) about the "OP" so far have been focused solely on what the player ought to do. No one made any mention about weird AI behaviour on take off, which I personally have so far experienced 4 times during campaign missions. Such missions become virtually unplayable unless you either switch to air start mode or go flying solo. Else, all you can do is to skip the mission and hope for the best with the next one. 

 

Granted, this is no game stopper, but because I believe the devs at least ought to take a look at that, I just wanted to put more focus on this particular problem.

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On 3/1/2020 at 9:52 PM, Gretsch_Man said:

All the comments in this thread (with the exception of the original poster and myself) about the "OP" so far have been focused solely on what the player ought to do. No one made any mention about weird AI behaviour on take off, which I personally have so far experienced 4 times during campaign missions. Such missions become virtually unplayable unless you either switch to air start mode or go flying solo. Else, all you can do is to skip the mission and hope for the best with the next one. 

 

Granted, this is no game stopper, but because I believe the devs at least ought to take a look at that, I just wanted to put more focus on this particular problem.

 

In what is probably well over 100 career missions alone, I've never had an issue on takeoff with the AI. They takeoff correctly every time. Doesn't mean it isn't happening but I would guess there's something specific about the situation... I'm not actually sure from your description what is happening to begin with.

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On 3/1/2020 at 9:52 PM, Gretsch_Man said:

All the comments in this thread (with the exception of the original poster and myself) about the "OP" so far have been focused solely on what the player ought to do. No one made any mention about weird AI behaviour on take off, which I personally have so far experienced 4 times during campaign missions. Such missions become virtually unplayable unless you either switch to air start mode or go flying solo. Else, all you can do is to skip the mission and hope for the best with the next one. 

 

Granted, this is no game stopper, but because I believe the devs at least ought to take a look at that, I just wanted to put more focus on this particular problem.

 

Which makes sense - we've all been on a busy server starting up and watching the ground loop ballet.  It can be frustrating in IL-2 or DCS to control a high performance taildragger if you've never done it before. People tend to be quick to offer help and hints on how to take off.   The AI may just have been following OP if he was flight lead - I don't really play SP so I don't know how the AI would react to a failed take off roll. 

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1 hour ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

I don't really play SP so I don't know how the AI would react to a failed take off roll. 

They simply do their takeoff run. If there is an obstacle on the runway, they will crash into it. As soon as the aircraft before an AI starts it's run, the AI will follow and things will happen.

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10 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

In what is probably well over 100 career missions alone, I've never had an issue on takeoff with the AI. They takeoff correctly every time. Doesn't mean it isn't happening but I would guess there's something specific about the situation... I'm not actually sure from your description what is happening to begin with.

Each time the AI had an issue with the take off I was NOT the flight lead. If my memory serves me right, all 4 times I had the problem the whole flight was flying the FW190-D9.

 

What's happening is that the AI pilots rev up their engine, then roll a bit and then they start turning to the left. After about a 270 degree turn, they sit there on the air strip blocking the take off path for the other a/c.

 

The fourth time this happened I noticed that there was some cross wind of 9m/s. I skipped that mission and on the very next one, the cross wind was only 4m/s and all the AI pilots took off without any hitch.

 

I don't know if this problem is only limited to the FW190-D9, but something must be wrong with the AI.

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The problem is, AI is not aware of possible issues during takeoff. They do their standard takeoff run and only react on things happening. Therefore AI always first drifts to the left during takeoff run and after some meters counters the drift, to stay on the runway. The player knows the aircraft wants to go to the left and starts his takeoff run with right rudder to counter the drifting to the left from the beginning of the takeoff run. When there is strong crosswind from the wrong direction, this might be too much for the AI to counter it successfully. Additional problem for AI is, they always throttle up fully at once, so they immediately have max power. It is much easier, when you throttle up slowly, because you have a slow power increase and it is easier to counter the torque.

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Hello!

 

Most players will avoid the FW 190, because of this over modeled spinning on take off behavior.  Funny that it is the Me 109 that was supposed to be a real pilot killer on landing and take off in WW2. But in this game, after one take off in a 109 you are an expert.  But in the FW 190, and by a margine of 10 to 1 vs the 109, it will kill you.  Strange that even with joystick to the rear and being very quick on correcting the plane's direction as soon as it want's to bite right or left it will destroy 10 times more plane on a server with limited ressources then the 109 of any models.  Kurt Tank would be very offended I think... Because his plane with wide landing gear struts was fixing the 109's new pilots problems.   They have to fixe this, it is a joke at it is right now.

 

The way I take off with it, is joystick to the rear to lock the tail wheel, max throttle as fast as possible, (because the progressive acceleration gives me plane way more time for spin to happen) stand by for the right spin but don't ever correct it ,(and I try to correct only with quick and release  max rudder and no left wheel brake as much as possible) and if your lucky, it will have taken enough speed to lift the tail soon and then you are ok, but I still crash on take off and landing at a minimum rate of 10 to 1 vs any other plane in this or any other flight sim...   

 

Cheers, Chevy

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2 hours ago, RCAFChevy said:

Most players will avoid the FW 190, because of this over modeled spinning on take off behavior. 

 

I've not found it any more difficult than any of the other planes that aren't tricycles. I haven't flown the Dora yet though.

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6 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:
2 hours ago, RCAFChevy said:

Most players will avoid the FW 190, because of this over modeled spinning on take off behavior. 

 

I've not found it any more difficult than any of the other planes that aren't tricycles. I haven't flown the Dora yet though

I absolutely agree with the killer;).

Taxiing can be a bit tricky, when you can't use the tailwheel lock, but taking off is almost as easy as driving a car. I just did two takeoffs in the D9, which I never was flying before, as I don't like the longnose, but as it is the most powerful 190, it should be the one, which might bring you into difficulties first. And yes. you need quite some right rudder, but when you don't throttle up immediately, but slowly, it is very easy handable. Stick pulled back at the beginning and released at 100km/h, and everything is fine. I didn't test it with crosswind, though.

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No problems with taking off in all versions of the FW190, including the Dora. The only exception is when there is a strong cross wind.

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