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6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

To all those who believe Bombers "shouldn't be able to do that"

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I have the deepest respect fir that crew. Pretty violent maneuver done live. Easy to do in a sim. 
it takes balls there

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Hopefully we can find out for ourselves! Fingers crossed for a B-25 collector plane soon!

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I have flown on a B25, they can feel pretty spritely when not laden with all the old school radios, weapons, bomb racks, etc.  The pilot made a pretty sporty 1G left turn.  I was sitting in the left waist gunner position, the pilot brought the power up, then she (yes, it was a lady PIC) put it on the left wing tip and just hauled it right around.  All I could see out my window was green and brown, and out the right window was blue sky.

 

It was wonderful.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
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Hey Klause, in a used book store I found an ancient, decades and decades out of print book on the Ju-52.

 

In it was an account by a pilot describing rolling that plane on its back and diving toward the deck to avoid fighters. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The pilot made a pretty sporty 1G left turn.

 

Defying physics or losing a considerable amount of altitude in the process. :salute: Very cool.

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I read somewhere that the Hampden was designed to be a fighter once it's bomb load was dropped. Looking at the Cockpit, I can believe it. .... but Mid 30s thinking - single fixed 303 pop-gun should be enough to decimate the enemy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6GLl0LtNj4

 

 

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Eric Brown deemed the BF 110 to be a better Dayfighter than the Beufighter, but a worser Nightfighter.

A pilot said he could not follow a Lancaster in a corcscrew maneuver . The 110 just flew straight and did not respond quickly enough because of the radar antennas

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20 hours ago, chuter said:

non-aerobatic A-20

You can do anything you want in this simulator, lol.

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The manual says not to drop internal bombs from a greater than 30° dive (obviously).  In game I've noticed you can drop from inverted without incident - bombs simply don't drop until you pull positive G then they fall away strictly on the aircraft's Y axis.  I've also dived to 450 mph and pulled out, near the ground, to the point of passing out without 1) stalling and 2) breaking the airplane.  It will develop over time, no doubt.

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I have broken the A-20.

It used to be able to withstand more gs.

 

There has been an accident in Biggin Hill in 1980, where an A-26 was rolled (with loose people in the cockpit) and they crashed.

The aircraft had been rolled before and others did it later, too. It wasn't the airplane - despite the manual saying "fooling around" was a big no-no.

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The Ju-88 and Ar-234 were both fully aerobatic.

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On 2/28/2020 at 9:49 AM, chuter said:

Here's the training film on the accelerated stall prone, non-aerobatic A-20.  Check it out at the 11:45 mark.

 

http://zenoswarbirdvideos.com/A-20.html


Bravo

 

excellent evidence 

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On 3/3/2020 at 8:12 AM, VO101Kurfurst said:

Sure it can turn - but can you show us it doing dat Heinkel loop? ;) 

Pah. Plank turn!

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Posted (edited)

What do you think was more effective in real life? Turning into a enemy dive, or let your gunners have him? I can't imagine trying to rear gun doing those maneuvers!

Edited by Y-29.Silky

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13 hours ago, Y-29.Silky said:

What do you think was more effective in real life? Turning into a enemy dive, or let your gunners have him? I can't imagine trying to rear gun doing those maneuvers!

Evasive Turn to loose him, and let him try again. If he gets greedy, he will try slower next Time and Your Gunners have him in Effective Range for much longer.

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13 hours ago, Y-29.Silky said:

What do you think was more effective in real life? Turning into a enemy dive, or let your gunners have him? I can't imagine trying to rear gun doing those maneuvers!

I think IRL you are probably screwed either way. Gunner effectiveness was not great even when flying straight and level. And unless your gunner can kill the bandit before he opens fire, flying straight and level to give him a clean shot is likely to get you hit even if he gets the kill. Unless the gunner is opening up on enemies at longer range and landing critical hits before the enemy can fire, a determined attacker is going to get rounds into you. And with the destructiveness of some of the cannons on the late war axis fighters, a few hits is going to leave you in a bad way over enemy territoryThe gunner's main usefulness, IMO, is as a deterrant to the enemy pilot taking the easiest attack approaches, to force lower margin shots and lower accuracy. 

The corkscrew maneuver practiced by the Lancasters and other night bombers really hinged on the ability to throw off the enemy's aim long enough to lose the bandit in the darkness. In daylight I think it would be a lot harder to break contact effectively. But I think it provides a little illumination as to what was most effective in real life. When the gunner called out an attacking fighter, the pilot corkscrewed, he didn't stay level to give his gunner an opportunity to kill the enemy aircraft. It was considered more important to throw off the bandit's aim than it was to try and set up a kill.

If I had to decide on what to do I would be doing the evasive maneuvering. Avoid getting hit as long as possible to prolong the engagement and increase the likelihood that a friendly fighter can come to my aid or that he will give up. But when I run into fighters as an attacker I usually consider it a matter of time until I am down, I can count on one hand the number of times my gunners actually saved me from being shot down - even with gunners in game that are probably much more effective than IRL. Sure, one of them may go down from my gunners, but I go down too.

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