Why does the P51 sound different from Spitfire IX?

[Bilbo_Baggins 319]

Hello gentleman, 

 

As these machines have the same motor (Packard V-1650-7/Merlin 66), I was just wondering why in-game sounds are quite dissimilar? Shouldn't they be the same, more or less?

 

Regards

Edited February 26 by Bilbo_Baggins

[ShamrockOneFive 3183]

Listen to the real things back to back and they don't really have the same sound either.

 

The Mustang has that distinctive whistle and the Spitfire tends to have a bit of a throatier growl. I don't know what the reason is but I'm sure it's a combination of the shape of the aircraft, the radiators, exhaust stacks, and a bunch of other things that give each aircraft their own distinctive sound even when they have the same engine in them.

[ROTER_BART 47]

I think the Packard Merlin has a different supercharger drive to the RR Merlin. Hence the Packard Merlin tends to have a more pronounced supercharger whine. I'm talking about what I have heard in real life here, not the in-game sounds, as I don't have BOBP.

 

[Bilbo_Baggins 319]

2 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Listen to the real things back to back and they don't really have the same sound either.

 

The Mustang has that distinctive whistle and the Spitfire tends to have a bit of a throatier growl. I don't know what the reason is but I'm sure it's a combination of the shape of the aircraft, the radiators, exhaust stacks, and a bunch of other things that give each aircraft their own distinctive sound even when they have the same engine in them.

 

Good points Shamrock. I posted this thread because the Pe-2, Yak and LaGG-3 machines all have the same sound of the M-105 Klimov motors, which makes sense. However, P51 and Spitfire with the same motor do not share the same sound whatsoever in-game.Thought it was worth mentioning. 

Edited February 26 by Bilbo_Baggins

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin 340]

The exhaust stacks are different.

[KW_1979 142]

42 minutes ago, =BAIT=CG_Justin said:

The exhaust stacks are different.

 

Different intakes as well.

[Rjel 1378]

I read once that a lot of the sound from a prop plane is generated by the propeller. Different props, different sounds. 

[Guster 13]

11 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Listen to the real things back to back and they don't really have the same sound either.

 

The Mustang has that distinctive whistle and the Spitfire tends to have a bit of a throatier growl. I don't know what the reason is but I'm sure it's a combination of the shape of the aircraft, the radiators, exhaust stacks, and a bunch of other things that give each aircraft their own distinctive sound even when they have the same engine in them.

 

This, I guess.

 

The Spit sounds a bit more compressed, like an AC30 at full whack. The Mustang has a more in-your-face fenderish twang with a touch of top-end feed.

 

Both sound utterly glorious in this game. Rather easy on the ears.

[=VARP=Ribbon 817]

12 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Listen to the real things back to back and they don't really have the same sound either.

 

The Mustang has that distinctive whistle and the Spitfire tends to have a bit of a throatier growl. I don't know what the reason is but I'm sure it's a combination of the shape of the aircraft, the radiators, exhaust stacks, and a bunch of other things that give each aircraft their own distinctive sound even when they have the same engine in them.

Prop

[[CPT]HawkeyeP 94]

Different propellers can make very large sound differences. A friend changed his Cessna 185 from a 2 blade prop to a 3 blade. It got louder but the pitch changed a little too.    The Rotol vs the Hamilton Standard props are pretty different profiles so it wouldn't surprise me that they sound different. Especially with changes to intakes, superchargers, exhaust designs etc. 

[chuter 128]

57 minutes ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

Different propellers can make very large sound differences. A friend changed his Cessna 185 from a 2 blade prop to a 3 blade. It got louder but the pitch changed a little too.    The Rotol vs the Hamilton Standard props are pretty different profiles so it wouldn't surprise me that they sound different. Especially with changes to intakes, superchargers, exhaust designs etc. 

 

Actually, all the 3 blade props (Hart and Mac 80", 82" and 84") are quieter, even the 86" Hartzell 3 blade Scimitar (for the 185E and F), than any of the stock 2 blades. 

[[CPT]HawkeyeP 94]

13 minutes ago, chuter said:

 

Actually, all the 3 blade props (Hart and Mac 80", 82" and 84") are quieter, even the 86" Hartzell 3 blade Scimitar (for the 185E and F), than any of the stock 2 blades. 

 

Could be. Not my aircraft!  Just hanger talk. I've only heard it taking off on the 3 blade once from across the bay and it was noticeably different sounding ('76 A185F on floats). I only flew/PIC'ed it on the 2 blade. 

Edited February 26 by [CPT]HawkeyeP

[=[TIA]=Stoopy 643]

2 hours ago, Guster said:

 

This, I guess.

 

The Spit sounds a bit more compressed, like an AC30 at full whack. The Mustang has a more in-your-face fenderish twang with a touch of top-end feed.

 

Both sound utterly glorious in this game. Rather easy on the ears.

 

Nice comparison.  I'll assume that'd be a brownface, tweed or possibly blackface Fender as opposed to a silverface.  😉

[216th_LuseKofte 2718]

I have yet to hear a Spitfire or a P 51 in real life

[ROTER_BART 47]

I'll be lucky enough to get to hear both again next weekend:

 

https://www.tyabbairshow.com/

 

 

 

 

[DD_Crash 133]

2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I have yet to hear a Spitfire or a P 51 in real life

Come to Flying Legends

[216th_LuseKofte 2718]

30 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

Come to Flying Legends

I will when I only got my wife with me on holidays. We are planning a tour in England. Channel boats and train the whole shebang. 
Now when we are 4 to 5 it is not easy finding common ground

[DD_Crash 133]

Good to hear you are going to come to the UK in the future. Make sure you time it right.

[334th_Padre* 51]

There are two distinct sounds that come from the P-51. One is the "whine" from the supercharger, and the other is the higher pitched, more audible "whistle" sound from the gunports.
The video clips in this article demonstrate that well, with Ferocious Frankie's whistle more evident when pulling manoevres.
https://worldwarwings.com/p-51-mustangs-howl-think-might-wrong/

 

There is also another informative post on this thread, by a user called "Bradburger" which has accompanying video clips showing Mustangs with and without open gunports.
https://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14842

[Jabo_68* 33]

The reason is quite simple.  They speak the same language but their accents are different.

Edited February 27 by Jabo_68*

[Bilbo_Baggins 319]

4 hours ago, Jabo_68* said:

The reason is quite simple.  They speak the same language but their accents are different.

 

Good one there! 

 

Really though, I thought the motors would sound at least somewhat similar in character like the PE2, LaGG and Yak machines have in common. I understand the gun-port whistling is a big difference of course.

Edited February 27 by Bilbo_Baggins

[ZachariasX 1881]

On 2/26/2020 at 8:12 PM, chuter said:

 

Actually, all the 3 blade props (Hart and Mac 80", 82" and 84") are quieter, even the 86" Hartzell 3 blade Scimitar (for the 185E and F), than any of the stock 2 blades. 

Go four blade and it will be even quieter. Reduced diameter is reduced tip speed, this makes most of your noise.

[Art-J 104]

11 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Good one there! 

 

Really though, I thought the motors would sound at least somewhat similar in character like the PE2, LaGG and Yak machines have in common. I understand the gun-port whistling is a big difference of course.

 

I agree with you. Putting gunports and radiators aside, they DO sound similar in real life, even in spite of different props being used (I mean - in the context of Merlins being easily recognized compared to Griffons and Allisons). That's speaking from watching-them-at-airshows perspective, not to mention plenty of recent, high-quality videos to be found on YT. The difference in the game seems a bit too much in my opinion (especially in cockpit, where both soundsets are nothing alike), but in the end it's not something I lose my sleep over.

 

I'd hazard a guess F-mod soundbank for Spit IX was built as an evolution of old soundbank for Spit V, while the one for Mustang might have been reworked to much higher extent when BoBP planes were created. After all, we know sound and texture quality varies noticeably between older and newer planes in this franchise.

[The_Doctor_B 3]

I was under the impression that It was the Spit Mk XVI with the Packard built Merlins and the Mk IX had RR? Or was this just after the modified intercooler?

[ZachariasX 1881]

1 hour ago, The_Doctor_B said:

I was under the impression that It was the Spit Mk XVI with the Packard built Merlins and the Mk IX had RR? Or was this just after the modified intercooler?

It's a Packard in the XVI, the Merlin 266. A copy of the 66 for LF Spitfire IX.

[chuter 128]

20 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Go four blade and it will be even quieter. Reduced diameter is reduced tip speed, this makes most of your noise.

 

Absolutely correct, but with a loss of propeller efficiency.  You want the fewest blades with the largest possible diameter (at a given tip speed) for the greatest efficiency.

[ZachariasX 1881]

10 minutes ago, chuter said:

Absolutely correct, but with a loss of propeller efficiency.  You want the fewest blades with the largest possible diameter (at a given tip speed) for the greatest efficiency.

Absolutely.

[Guster 13]

On 2/26/2020 at 8:40 PM, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Nice comparison.  I'll assume that'd be a brownface, tweed or possibly blackface Fender as opposed to a silverface.  😉

 

👍

[DBFlyguy 32]

All versions of the Merlin could use some work/updating ingame, they just seem off, hopefully they'll get a rework eventually like the DB engines did

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29 by DBFlyguy
update wording

[HBPencil 212]

6 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

All versions of the Merlin could use some work/updating ingame, they just seem off, hopefully they'll get a rework eventually like the DB engines did

 

 

 

 

I agree, and I'll go one step further and say that the Spits don't really sound like Merlins (externally that is, the cockpit sounds are fine)... same goes for the Allisons as well.

[ACG_KaiLae 271]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:57 AM, DD_Crash said:

Come to Flying Legends

 

Or, better. Airventure. Where you can see that and much, much more. We had 18 P-51's taking off at once last year.

[danielprates 485]

On 2/26/2020 at 1:47 PM, Guster said:

The Spit sounds a bit more compressed, like an AC30 at full whack. The Mustang has a more in-your-face fenderish twang with a touch of top-end feed.

 

With pronounced tannins, a bouquet of tangerine and a hint of almonds.