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HagarTheHorrible

Is it better to go down ?

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Is it better to go down, and just by saying it, does it mean that it no longer is ?

 

If involved in a head on merge is the natural urge, for the merge, to pull up at the last moment, and if both sides, while trying, with the best of intentions, to avoid a head on collision, collide anyway, because both sides jinked in the same direction, the natural, pull up out of the way option, is it better to fight instinct and go low ?  Are the odds better at avoidance ?  

 

Before you say it, yes I know head on merges are bad, but because Vpilots don’t fear death and the kill is all, it will always happen, even good pilots, (obviously I don’t fall into that category) can’t resist the temptation.

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12 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Is it better to go down, and just by saying it, does it mean that it no longer is ?

 

If involved in a head on merge is the natural urge, for the merge, to pull up at the last moment, and if both sides, while trying, with the best of intentions, to avoid a head on collision, collide anyway, because both sides jinked in the same direction, the natural, pull up out of the way option, is it better to fight instinct and go low ?  Are the odds better at avoidance ?  

 

Before you say it, yes I know head on merges are bad, but because Vpilots don’t fear death and the kill is all, it will always happen, even good pilots, (obviously I don’t fall into that category) can’t resist the temptation.

 

I would say chances are 50 - 50. You also have to take the energy relations of the two planes into account. The faster plane will probably climb to convert speed into altitude and the slower plane will probably dive to convert altitude into speed.  

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"Always from above,

Seldom from the same level,

NEVER from below."

 

Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock

VC, DSO & Two Bars, MC & Bar

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20 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 

I would say chances are 50 - 50. You also have to take the energy relations of the two planes into account. The faster plane will probably climb to convert speed into altitude and the slower plane will probably dive to convert altitude into speed.  

 

Ahhhhh ! But that is because you is a clever bugger, and probably have 50 ways (to leave your lover) all figured out. Most, I expect react on instinct, at the very last, if not miss timed.  I presume instinct, i.e, without logic, is to pull up, in such a situation, maybe the odds are better if you push rather than pull ?

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2 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

Ahhhhh ! But that is because you is a clever bugger, and probably have 50 ways (to leave your lover) all figured out. Most, I expect react on instinct, at the very last, if not miss timed.  I presume instinct, i.e, without logic, is to pull up, in such a situation, maybe the odds are better if you push rather than pull ?

 

Totally depends on what you expect your enemy is doing. Don't pull when you think he will pull don't push when you think he is going to push. It is a little mind game.

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29 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

"Always from above,

Seldom from the same level,

NEVER from below."

 

Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock

VC, DSO & Two Bars, MC & Bar


Four legs good,
Two legs bad.

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More to the point, my reflex is usually to go below the opponent, precisely because most people think "Up is good, down is bad" and go other way. And, this way I can see my opponent while I pass him try to make corrections. If you go up, I hide my opponent behind my engine and just hope we don't end up crashing. Maintaining the sight while he has to reacquire me is a bonus.

Speed is as good form of energy as altitude.

The moments I do go up are when I believe he has no energy to reach me, and will stall before he rams me. In these cases, he's most welcome to try :) .

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I'm happy to go down.  But I think it is only fair that the other person does too.  

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I'm always ready to go down, but then again, it all depends on what type your target is...

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2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I'm always ready to go down, but then again, it all depends on what type your target is...

 

Like if you're expecting a Fokker, but you suddenly notice a cockade?

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Depends really if it's a cleared field, or a landing strip, or you're having to go down into the bush.

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On 2/24/2020 at 9:43 AM, J2_Trupobaw said:

More to the point, my reflex is usually to go below the opponent, precisely because most people think "Up is good, down is bad" and go other way. And, this way I can see my opponent while I pass him try to make corrections. If you go up, I hide my opponent behind my engine and just hope we don't end up crashing. Maintaining the sight while he has to reacquire me is a bonus.

Speed is as good form of energy as altitude.

The moments I do go up are when I believe he has no energy to reach me, and will stall before he rams me. In these cases, he's most welcome to try :) .

 

I think diving from above and then using the energy to zoom from below was common enough.  If you asked Mannock I would bet that he counts that as "from above".  I think that Mannock is talking about starting from a negative position and trying to claw your way up at the enemy.  Do that and you start combat in a very bad relative energy state.

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From collision avoidance standpoint, if you are equal altitude, it doesn't matter.  If you are higher, and diving down upon an enemy, it is better to pull up.  If you are below and climbing, it is better to dive.  If you are slow and you attempt to climb...you won't actually climb...

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