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von_Tom

Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 base with Warthog grip

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Tried my T-50CM2 base with the Warthog stick (7.5cm extension) for the first time today and it is... different.  Playing IL2 using the non-linear no-centre cam with heavy springs.  I tightened the heavy springs all the way down then released them 7 turns.

 

I've used the Warthog for 10 years so it is quite a difference in terms of muscle memory.  The Warthog has a wider range of movement and more equal stick force across the whole gimbal.    The T-50CM2 base feels light around the centre and smooth but the force really ramps up quickly - it feels like it gets "heavy" too quickly rather than being a smooth build-up of stick force.  That is no doubt a combination of cam and springs.

 

In some ways as it is now is great because once I hit the extra force needed to get full deflection I don't really push and I tend to ease off a bit - this made me keep a bit more energy and black out less.  I'd prefer having a heavier stick force around the centre though, just because it feels a touch light.

 

My initial reaction was "hmmm" but at the moment it feels weird and I expect that in a couple of days I'll appreciate it a lot more.

 

Those that have switched to MFG Crosswinds will understand the feeling - you switch over and think "I don't get it - what's so special about them?" then after a while you realise that everything in incrementally better than what you had before.  Smoother, easier, more precise and so on.

 

I'd like to know how others have their cam and springs set up.

 

von Tom

 

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I use the no center cams with increasing force (ava sim). I found a flaw that in one direction the force increases differently then the other. For me this is pulling back on the stick and moving it left. I took the cams out and polished them by hand with an aggressive scotch-brite then 1000 followed by 2000 to a mirror finish and it helped with some of the resistance I felt as the cams reached that point of very quickly increasing force. I then put the lightest roll axis spring in tightened all the way. This ends up being lighter then the Elevator like I'm told it is in real life. For the elevator axis I use the default spring and it's backed out 3 turns from max. I also have a 10cm long extension. I have the longer curved one on order.

 

I think it's pretty good, I can adjust the tension and sensitivity in game to have the ramp up in force about the same place that the aircraft will buffet and stall at the optimal turn speeds. Though I still think I preferred flying with my modified G940. Force feedback is hard to beat on a WW2 sim. I may switch back to that and only use the VPC CM2 for modern and space sims. I would pay dearly for a modern FFB stick like the Brunner if only it worked in this game.

 

I'm curious if you have the same flaw in the cam design as me where either direction has differing forces. I found this wasn't as apparent with the cams that have a soft center. Lighter springs seem to help mask the problem but I think there was a calculation error in the cam design. I can say it's not a flaw of the single cam per axis design because my Slaw rudder pedals work similarly and do not show the same problem.

 

I think if you want it to feel just like the warthog the cosmo sim with center would be the closest. 

 

Edit

More research and it seem's I'm not the only one. This is widespread and seems flaw in the design of those cams.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=261204

Edited by driftaholic

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I'm not sure if I have that problem because I am still getting used to the different feel.  I'll try it later to see if I experience what you describe.  I kinda like the idea of equal force across the range of movement but I think the force ramping up quickly is a great way of reducing the stall but still allowing for panic to kick in if it needs to.  I also like the extra force because it feels more like I'd expect from a WWII fighter.

 

von Tom

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I use two different cams on x and y axies . Roll is linear and pitch progressively resistant towards limit. I think it best (exclude FF) and good mimick real thing. 10 cm extension.

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2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I use two different cams on x and y axies . Roll is linear and pitch progressively resistant towards limit. I think it best (exclude FF) and good mimick real thing. 10 cm extension.

 

For roll do you mean CosmoSim - No Center (Linear)

 

Which springs and how tight are they set?

 

von Tom

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14 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

 

For roll do you mean CosmoSim - No Center (Linear)

 

Which springs and how tight are they set?

 

von Tom

No when I bought there were no cosmosim cams , roll - soft center , linear.  Springs soft. Tight - medium , I don't really feel much difference .

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I’ve checked and I don’t feel any difference in force needed around the centre. It is obviously different to the Warthog because that uses a ball. 
 

I’ve stuck with the non-linear cams for pitch and roll but have eased off the tension on the roll.
 

I’m thinking to just play with that for a while as I’ve never flown any kind of plane and will

nevwr know what it feels like to fly a WWII fighter, so good enough is good enough. 
 

von Tom

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27 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

I’ve checked and I don’t feel any difference in force needed around the centre. It is obviously different to the Warthog because that uses a ball. 
 

I’ve stuck with the non-linear cams for pitch and roll but have eased off the tension on the roll.
 

I’m thinking to just play with that for a while as I’ve never flown any kind of plane and will

nevwr know what it feels like to fly a WWII fighter, so good enough is good enough. 
 

von Tom

 

Check this

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3321565&postcount=1634

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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12 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I use two different cams on x and y axies . Roll is linear and pitch progressively resistant towards limit. I think it best (exclude FF) and good mimick real thing. 10 cm extension.

 

My cam setup is exactly the same. 

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I've tested a few combinations and my favourite in terms of subjective feel" is:

 

Pitch - non-linear soft centre, heavy spring tightened up then backed off 5 turns

 

Roll - non-linear no-centre, medium spring tightened up then back off 5 turns

 

I didn't like the soft centre for roll because there was a definite "bump" when feeding in pitch then roll.  I didn't like the linear cam for roll because it felt like it took less force to move once I got out of the middle.

 

Everyone is different I guess, and subjective taste may vary depending on extension length and so on.

 

von Tom

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