Jump to content
Q_Walker

Further Development of Career?

Recommended Posts

Are there any plans to make more additions to the Career Mode besides mission types?

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something that would be very simple: Kuban 1942, all planes are ready, you could build a Romanian campaign.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would be cool, but I think I would rather have more mission variety and see different versions/sizes of the missions we currently have.

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect it's a lot more complicated to add new missions or there would be more varying types. I'm still crossing my fingers for "train intercept" and anti-shipping missions in the future though ;)

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed @HerrBree, I would also like to see something that may not be as important, but I want to see dynamic weather. I want missions to have different random weather depending on the season. One other thing I'd like to see is the ability to request leave for a certain amount of time. But, of course it is all up to the devs, already impressed with the Career, especially with the recent updates to AI making them far more dangerous.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting the current careers into the hands of a trusted volunteer third party would be good.  It seems like the developers don’t have the time or manpower to spare on giving it an extra polish.  

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are indeed many features for single player career mode that I would love to see, which is not only more variety of missions,  but also AI related features (proper formation flying like finger four formation, proper wingman behaviour etc). Also I'd like to see more communication options for the player with the AI. The currently available  command structure is rather  limited imho. Ground control AI that will guide the human player by voice to the target (for example when intercepting bombers) would also be great.

 

On the other hand, recent AI improvements have been pretty good. Dogfighting with the AI has become rather "involving", and the new formation flying has also improved dramatically. So hat's off to those achievements!

 

Heck, if all those mentioned features would necessitate a paid DLC, I for once would even be willing to pay for that.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specific to the career I'd love to see a few more mission types.

 

For Stalingrad we used to have ship attack missions along the Volga in the old Campaign mode and I'd love to see those come back. Ship attack missions for Kuban would be great too as well as harbour attacks. BlackSix has done great work with the Sea Dragon campaign in that area and I'd love for his expertise there to come into Career mode at some point.

 

Other updates I'd love to see are more core-systems (radio, ATC, wingman control) that are part of the career experience but not explicitly the career mode itself.

 

IMHO, Career mode is actually pretty fantastic as far as the basic menus and squadron experiences. It's not a dynamic campaign with chooseable missions and a changing strategic mission overview, it wasn't designed or talked about like that, but it's probably the next best thing offering lots of persistence. I think where it is doing fairly well but can always do better is in those mission types and variety within mission types so you never go out being too comfortable with what kind of opposition or scenario you might run into. They have worked hard on that already and it has paid off but if were talking about what more can be done. Some of these things for sure!

  • Like 5
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were excellent career missions in the ROF. Like those Recon mission where you have to manually take photos and those aerial observer arty spot missions. Night missions would be great too.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't mind having extra mission types. Magztv stopped playing IL-2 because the BoBP career never took off and offered the same thing day after day. Intercepting rocket trucks on the ground, boat bombing runs, these would be neat.

 

And, adding variety to the planes we encounter in career mode as well. In BoBP I haven't seen a single P-38.

Edited by Sybreed
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Other updates I'd love to see are more core-systems (radio, ATC, wingman control) that are part of the career experience but not explicitly the career mode itself.

Well, yes and no, I think. Such core systems are certainly not directly related to the career mode, but they nevertheless could have a big impact on single-player experience (I assume most SP gamers play mostly in career mode, as I do).

 

But I agree with you that the career mode we already have is a pretty solid one and I for sure am having a ball playing with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

am I the only one who prefers paid Scripted Campaigns over Career every time?

 

I'm sure you are not alone.  However I prefer career mode for replayability and continuity, plus personal and unit progression.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

am I the only one who prefers paid Scripted Campaigns over Career everytime?

 

Sure, hand built missions with a written narrative are always going to offer a higher quality experience. But there are dozens and dozens of Career mode combinations for a smaller number of Scripted Campaigns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

am I the only one who prefers paid Scripted Campaigns over Career everytime?

 

I'm sure that you are not.  While it is theoretically possible to approach the level of detail of a hand made mission with an automated one, in practice it is very difficult to pull off.  What you sacrifice with scripted missions is - as Feathered pointed out - continuity over a longer time span.  Which is better?  Neither.  Pure opinion.

 

To me the ideal is both.  Aces Over The Pacific did this well: on historical days you would find yourself placed in a hand crafted historical mission (I loved/hated that Devastator torpedo run).  I would like to introduce something like that into PWCG but it is no easy task.  

  • Thanks 3
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sometimes post things like "wish devs focus more on X thing", and I get the usual reply "not the whole team focus on X thing, there are different things the teams focus on", which I have to admit its true.

 

But now I gonna say this again... I would prefer devs focus on creating more SCs instead of polishing the Career mode. I would happily spend 10-20 USD for each SC, I would have 0 problem on doing so. 

But as you all stated, its about a matter of preferences I guess, any of the modes is better than the other. But no matter how much I try, I always play 1 or 2 missions in the career and get bored. I had started like 20 different careers, from German Fighters to Soviet ground pounders, but usually play 1 mission and then return to SCs.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

But no matter how much I try, I always play 1 or 2 missions in the career and get bored. I had started like 20 different careers, from German Fighters to Soviet ground pounders, but usually play 1 mission and then return to SCs.

It's the same for me, I just can't get into career mode. My only complaint when it comes to scripted campaigns is that you can't get awards and promotions. In Il-2 1946 it was possible. I would love to see it in BoX too, maybe with an option that allows mission designers to determine after how many missions or victories an award or promotion happens.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I feel like shamrock. The career mode is great in itself, and I love working my way up.  What helps me sometimes (when I get bored) is to change the unit with my pilot to bring in some diversity. The only thing that bothers me a bit are the mission parameters. Sometimes you can cruise forever over a ground target because the AI wingmen either don't drop their bombs or (that's how it feels from time to time) have to sit out an imaginary timer before they fly back, or while they do that they get overrun and shot down by enemies.

Otherwise random things like moving trains or anti ship missions would be a welcome change. But maybe that will come with the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am certainly enjoying the Career mode. I am currently 76 missions and 49 hours into my Bodenplatte Spit Mk IX Career.

Based on the progress bar I expect I am nearing the end of it. I have certainly enjoyed every mission, and the AI improvements have helped also.

Having a lot of bomb dropping missions which I have found myself enjoying, always interesting to be approaching target and hear reports of enemy fighters

approaching. A dash to get those bombs dropped on target so can turn around and start to engage the enemy.

 

I have a lot of kills both ground and air but I am still just Deputy Commander - hoping to make full Commander before it ends.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

I sometimes post things like "wish devs focus more on X thing", and I get the usual reply "not the whole team focus on X thing, there are different things the teams focus on", which I have to admit its true.

 

But now I gonna say this again... I would prefer devs focus on creating more SCs instead of polishing the Career mode. I would happily spend 10-20 USD for each SC, I would have 0 problem on doing so. 

But as you all stated, its about a matter of preferences I guess, any of the modes is better than the other. But no matter how much I try, I always play 1 or 2 missions in the career and get bored. I had started like 20 different careers, from German Fighters to Soviet ground pounders, but usually play 1 mission and then return to SCs.

 

For once these are connected pieces that you CAN actually say "I wish the devs focused on X instead of Y." BlackSix who has made most of the Scripted Campaigns for IL-2 from 1CGS also played a major role in developing content and material for Career mode from what I know of his work. I'm sure he's not the only one I'm sure but allocation of like resources is definitely the case here.

 

As for what the right call is for the kinds of focus that 1CGS should put on their single player content, I think you'll hear wildly different reactions from around the community. We have people stating that they won't buy Flying Circus Vol 1 almost entirely because it doesn't offer a Career mode (or at least that's what they say). There's an excellent scripted campaign included now and there will probably be more but it's Career mode that is the draw. You sound like you might be on the other side of that equation favouring the Scripted Campaign experience.

 

I frankly think that both have their place and Jason smartly made sure that both were part of his plans for Battle of Kuban. IL-2 single player received a giant boost during Kuban's development thanks to both features and I think they need to pursue both features over time adding content and variety as development time allows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

It's the same for me, I just can't get into career mode. My only complaint when it comes to scripted campaigns is that you can't get awards and promotions. In Il-2 1946 it was possible. I would love to see it in BoX too, maybe with an option that allows mission designers to determine after how many missions or victories an award or promotion happens.

 

I would prefer it just be coded as per historical realities like it is in the career...otherwise we'd have to research parameters for rewards which would be tedious.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

 While it is theoretically possible to approach the level of detail of a hand made mission with an automated one, in practice it is very difficult to pull off. 

 

It's definitely possible...but it would be a crap-ton of work.

Your baseline would be (well from my perspective as "not a coder" but an editor guy) a very detailed base template with complex randomized logic.

From that base template, and making variations of it (changing time of day, weather, date) you could make a career with all of the detail of a scripted campaign.

 

Already I can automate just about everything on my own in a single mission file. That includes base vehicles, scenery flights, mission profiles, target areas, targets, convoys, enemy aircraft, etc etc.

All with the same detail as a scripted campaign.

 

What I can't do obviously is the squadron stuff, awards, newspapers etc.

 

So I can definitely see what's possible.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gambit21
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think personally I'd like for the amount of rewards that the game gives you be toned down a bit. My pilot has been on the front line for little over a week and he already has, what, two Orders of the Red Banner and a Hero of the Soviet Union? I don't mind those rewards standing in for, say, nominations to receive an award, but the amount of medals received seems a hair ridiculous.

 

I would also like to see the number of aircraft awarded to be tweaked as well. I'll be awarded kills for planes that disengaged and crashed attempting to land at their airfield. I also get awarded kills for aircraft I do shoot down, but they're shot down over enemy territory and I'm not terribly sure how anyone was able to confirm those. I know over-claiming was a historical thing, but I somewhat balk at it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished my Bodenplatte Spit Mk IX Career.

83 Sorties, 52 Hours - over 150 air kills and a ton of ground kills.

Great fun! Enemy Air AI was quite challenging, especially when a flight would follow you doggedly all the way back to base.

All I ever ran across as for as enemy air were 190 and 109's, different variants of course.

It was cool progressing through the Career in my Spit MK IX, at one point we got the clipped wing version, and then later on in the war we got improved higher boost engines.

 

Couple of observations. 

Sometimes the Planning Room would show me assigned to two missions for that day , one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

Always though, after completing the morning mission, my pilot would disappear from the roster of the second mission. It would be nice at times to be able to fly two

missions in one day.

Also there were several days throughout the Career I missed - because I was not on the roster those days. I am not talking about being wounded, just would run across some

days I was just not listed to fly. I think the max days I had in a row of not being on the roster was three at one time.

 

Overall though, as I said I had great fun flying this Career! I had not done much ground pounding previously and I found I enjoyed that better than I thought I would.

I think I will take a bit of a break and try the scripted campaign for the Spit Mk V, and then after that may try out a different plane  Career for a change of pace.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FarflungWanderer said:

I think personally I'd like for the amount of rewards that the game gives you be toned down a bit. My pilot has been on the front line for little over a week and he already has, what, two Orders of the Red Banner and a Hero of the Soviet Union? I don't mind those rewards standing in for, say, nominations to receive an award, but the amount of medals received seems a hair ridiculous.

 

The award system reflects the real-world conditions that each nation had for their awards. In the case of the USSR, the simple fact is that, yes, a Soviet pilot would earn the title of Hero of the Soviet Union by the time they reached 10 victories. All of this is reflected both in the official regulations and what pilots were actually awarded (3 victories = an official award, 6 victories, another award, 10 victories, Hero of the Soviet Union). The Soviets were not shy about handing out awards to their troops.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The award system reflects the real-world conditions that each nation had for their awards. In the case of the USSR, the simple fact is that, yes, a Soviet pilot would earn the title of Hero of the Soviet Union by the time they reached 10 victories. All of this is reflected both in the official regulations and what pilots were actually awarded (3 victories = an official award, 6 victories, another award, 10 victories, Hero of the Soviet Union). The Soviets were not shy about handing out awards to their troops.

Huh, that's fascinating! I never knew that.

 

I think from an American perspective, it felt strange to just get award after award when my conception of the US military is that they're relatively hesitant to hand out something of that level. But I appreciate the clarification!

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FarflungWanderer said:

I would also like to see the number of aircraft awarded to be tweaked as well. I'll be awarded kills for planes that disengaged and crashed attempting to land at their airfield. I also get awarded kills for aircraft I do shoot down, but they're shot down over enemy territory and I'm not terribly sure how anyone was able to confirm those. I know over-claiming was a historical thing, but I somewhat balk at it...

One of the good things in PWCG, where you decide what airkills you claim, so you can get credited them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One issue is that it is still much easier for a sim pilot to rack up kills than a real pilot.  Oddly, IMHO this makes playing as a German on the eastern front the most realistic career.  You have to get over 200 to get the highest awards.

 

DBurne got 150 kills in six months as a British pilot ... that is about 112 more than any western allied pilot in the entire war.  If you are racking up 60 victories as a Soviet pilot you are right at the top, probably in far less time than Kozhedub.  They are going to pin medals on you.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

One issue is that it is still much easier for a sim pilot to rack up kills than a real pilot.  Oddly, IMHO this makes playing as a German on the eastern front the most realistic career.  You have to get over 200 to get the highest awards.

 

DBurne got 150 kills in six months as a British pilot ... that is about 112 more than any western allied pilot in the entire war.  If you are racking up 60 victories as a Soviet pilot you are right at the top, probably in far less time than Kozhedub.  They are going to pin medals on you.  

 

I think playing on a higher difficulty may alleviate that for me in particular, as I'm still not a great pilot, but I guess once you get used to how the AI fights it'll never be the same challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

One issue is that it is still much easier for a sim pilot to rack up kills than a real pilot.  Oddly, IMHO this makes playing as a German on the eastern front the most realistic career.  You have to get over 200 to get the highest awards.

 

DBurne got 150 kills in six months as a British pilot ... that is about 112 more than any western allied pilot in the entire war.  If you are racking up 60 victories as a Soviet pilot you are right at the top, probably in far less time than Kozhedub.  They are going to pin medals on you.  

 

It is interesting to see the differing award philosophies. For the Soviets, a fighter pilot reaching 10 victories or 40 missions in 1941 (when the award regulations were written) was a singularly rare event. For a German pilot at that time, 10 victories would have barely netted a guy a 1st Class Iron Cross.

 

Then, in the West, you have the very structured and segmented British awards system ("sorry, you are just a Sergeant, so no DFC for you"), and an American awards system that was all over the place with regards to the AM and DFC (one day they were automatic awards, next day they weren't).

 

The cool thing about all of this is that it a good chunk of the philosophy can be (and is) coded into the game's award system. For example, for the Germans, the award system moves more towards the point system they employed in the West when a player moves from the the Eastern Front to the Western Front, which makes it a bit easier to earn awards.

Edited by LukeFF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@LukeFF If the Germans used one system in the east and one in the west, what did they do about pilots transferring between east and west?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2020 at 10:11 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

on historical days you would find yourself placed in a hand crafted historical mission

 

You nailed it. This kind of construction would add immense value to the whole.

Right now the system is maybe too random and sometimes repetitive/boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Career is too repetitive and boring. Same thing, no mater Allies or Axis, same set of missions, just change of decorations.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah,

 

we know beforehand what is going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Arthur-A said:

Career is too repetitive and boring. Same thing, no mater Allies or Axis, same set of missions, just change of decorations.

 

Details?  I get the complaint but much more useful is "it would be better if ..." .  Fill in the blank.  Understand that the things you consider to be better may or may not match the next guys.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, 4driano said:

Yeah,

 

we know beforehand what is going to happen.

 

Well I don't know, in my Spit MK IX Career I had several different missions and they were not always the same outcome.

I had different targets to bomb - airfields, ground troops, trains - sometimes enemy aircraft would show up right as I was getting to target, sometimes shortly after, sometimes not at all.

Sometimes I would run across them even on returning to Home base.

Also had a few bomber escort missions, and some fighter intercept missions.

 

So I went into each mission in anticipation but it was not like I knew what was going to happen in that particular mission. 

Granted there is much repetition of the type of mission being flown, but I did not find them predictable in what was going to happen during that mission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's also worth mentioning that the vast majority of the Second World War was awful, bloody mundanity. Exceptional air battles would be nice to model, but for the most part the grunt work is just going to be the same slog that we fly in the sim. This is not a bad thing, in my opinion. If I want action and spectacle that IL-2 cannot provide, Ace Combat is always on hand.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

@LukeFF If the Germans used one system in the east and one in the west, what did they do about pilots transferring between east and west?

 

That's a good question that I really don't have the answer to. :) LIke most things German, I'm sure it was some sort of needlessly complex algorithm they used for such pilots. 😄 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would like to see more options in single player campaigns to allow you to create a more realistic or arcade environment as you see fit.  Sliders for strength of AAA, frequency of contact with the enemy. Personally I would love more realistic campaign, to that end i would like more Flak and smaller percentages of Air to Air Contact, as well as more mechanical malfunctions and taxiing for takeoff but others may want more action, flying 5 missions in a row flying a racetrack pattern around a bridge that the enemy ignores is probably not what some would call fun, the option should be there to have either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...