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Su 122 Commanders open hatch


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When selecting the Tank Commanders position in the Su 122 it's possible to open the top hatch, but not possible to see out of the open hatch.  Is this intentional?  If not, it would be nice to have the ability to see out of the top of the tank from the commanders position with the hatch open. Even if it takes more time for the commander to move to that position, it would be worth it in order to enhance the commanders situational awareness. 

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I'd like to add something else to improve the Su 122.  The Commanders periscope is fixed in one position:  "Forward".  Recommend making it a rotating periscope in order for the Commander to have situational awareness when buttoned up.  I "think" this feature was how it actually was in Soviet tanks with a pericope.  I base my reasoning on features I've  recently discovered with the excellent game Steel Fury and the mods associated with it.  Tank Crew got me interested in tanking, and that led me to Steel Fury.  Steel Fury with its plethora of mods have opened my eyes to the extent Tank Crew could be improved.  Seems they and the modders have really nailed it with Steel Fury, and although tanks in Tank Crew have superb graphics and such, their crew operational effectiveness leave a lot to be desired.  The Su 122 is a case in point.   As it is currently modeled, it's a poor choice for multiplayer. There is only the Diver and the Gunner available for suitable multiplayer positions.  The Commander position is worse than useless because his position does  not add to situational awareness but only takes away from it for the Gunner.  The Su 122 has the capability to counter a Tiger threat in IL-2 multiplayer, but as it's currently modeled, it's not very effective in that role because its situational awareness is so poor that it's severely handicapped when fighting tanks that have far better SA due to opened commanders cupolas, and cupola view ports.  The Gunners position is not acceptable for even minimal SA.  The only way to improve SA in the game is to beef up the Commanders position. Given the poorly modeled commander's station in the Su 122, it seems that expanding TC to include another tank modeled in the same manner(Su-152. Su-85, Su-100?)  will not enhance the games attractiveness.

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On 2/4/2020 at 5:06 PM, klunker said:

When selecting the Tank Commanders position in the Su 122 it's possible to open the top hatch, but not possible to see out of the open hatch.  Is this intentional? 

Yes, it is. The SU-122 is not really a fighting vehicle, like a normal tank, but a fire support vehicle. The hatch you are talking of, was only for entering and leaving the vehicle (and maybe get some fresh air into it as well). The role of the SU-122 was more the role of the early StuG III, with the short barrel, destroying bunkers and stuff like that. It was not really thought to move in the first firing line, but a few hundred meters behind the tanks.

On 3/28/2020 at 8:01 PM, klunker said:

The Commanders periscope is fixed in one position:  "Forward". 

Nope, it turns like the gunsight with the keys for turn periscope left/right, move up/down (something like that), and you have a key to center it again in the tank keys settings.

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15 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Yes, it is. The SU-122 is not really a fighting vehicle, like a normal tank, but a fire support vehicle. The hatch you are talking of, was only for entering and leaving the vehicle (and maybe get some fresh air into it as well). The role of the SU-122 was more the role of the early StuG III, with the short barrel, destroying bunkers and stuff like that. It was not really thought to move in the first firing line, but a few hundred meters behind the tanks.

Nope, it turns like the gunsight with the keys for turn periscope left/right, move up/down (something like that), and you have a key to center it again in the tank keys settings.

 

After reading your post, I've revisited the Su 122 in game and experimented with all the key settings and still cannot get the Commander's periscope to move.  Please kindly explain exactly what keys and in which key setting page controls the periscope.  There's no periscope key in any of my key pages.  I can hit: Nestle to the Gunsight Key and move in to view the periscope..as if it were a gunsight.  But if I hit the usual Turret key which normally moves the turret and gun sight for the tank gunner..I get nothing when I move the mouse (the usual turret control).  The mouse does however move a white reticle within the parameters of the forward facing periscope.  I simply fail to get the periscope to rotate. 

 

Your explanation regarding the operational design of the vehicle makes sense, but it doesn't rule out the option of a commander driving with the hatch open in order to gain a clearer perspective of the overall situation on the outside.  Regardless, we who would play with this beast should have the option of standing up in the open hatch for better SA in order to employ the machine in an Anti Tank role.  Really, what other role is there for it in this IL-2 game?  In the following link you see a depiction of a Su 122 with a crew member standing in the open hatch:

 

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_SU-122.php

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18 minutes ago, klunker said:

  But if I hit the usual Turret key which normally moves the turret and gun sight for the tank gunner..I get nothing when I move the mouse (the usual turret control). 

Sorry mate, I should have changed the language of my game to English, to see how it is called in English.

In English version the commands are "Visor vertical adjustment", "Visor horizontal adjustment" and "Visor adjustment reset".

In German version it is made clearer as it is not visor, but periscope.

As mentioned in my post above, you can also rotate the gunsight with this keys, to look around, when in gunner's position and then reset it for shooting.

18 minutes ago, klunker said:

Really, what other role is there for it in this IL-2 game? 

The one millon dollar question.

With using the periscope you have a little work around, but, yes looking out of a hatch is definitely better. I would think, when moving to the next combat area, the commander might have been looking out of the hatch, but when fighting, it clearly would have been a problem, with the hatch being over one of the loaders. It surely was narrow enough without the commander standing in the open hatch.

The SU-122 in operations

The SU-122 was not meant to deal with other tanks, but only with German fortified positions, strongholds and ranged infantry support

 

This from your link says everything about usage IRL. But you are right, in game it only makes sense as some kind of tank hunter.

Edited by Yogiflight
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THANK YOU!!

 

I really appreciate your response and insight into this issue.  Without your help, I would have remained clueless about the periscope feature!

 

I'm not a student of the forum and generally am unsuccessful finding what I'm looking for using the search engine provided.  If this information that you've provided me hasn't been addressed before (I don't see it when I perform a search), I feel you may well do others in the "Tank Crew" community a great service by submitting a post explaining what you've told me.  I see that you've posted a lot, and hence have the credibility that will draw attention to what you have to offer.  I suspect I'm not alone in thinking the Commander's position in the Su 122 was worthless.  The fellow I often play with online until now was just as clueless as me.  There's bound to be others..especially in the English speaking world, who would benefit from your post in the Tank Crew forum.  I doubt many will ever have a look in this section.  It's not a place I ever look to except when I think something needs to be suggested.  I'll do it if it hasn't already been addressed, or you simply would rather not, but like I said: "You're the Man" and I feel it would be something others appreciate..(if you're a female..I hope I haven't offended you :) )

 

Many thanks!

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1 hour ago, klunker said:

(if you're a female..

Just took a look, no it doesn't seem so;)

Thanks for your kind words. I always try to help where I can. TBH after I read your posts, I tried the SU-122 for the first time, to see how it works, as I am currently not playing TC until we get the commander's binoculars.

Funny sidenote, when I tried to make it work, I got really dissappointed as I couldn't get the gun moving ore shooting. This was until I recognized, that the position I was trying to do it, was the commander's position, not the gunner's.:dash:

I think the issue with the commander not being able to look out of the hatch will get bigger with the introduction of binoculars. Without binoculars the advantage of an unbuttoned commander compared to the turning periscope with magnification is not nearly as big as it will be with binoculars. Additionally I guess most players on russian side will anyways stay with the T-34, where you don't have the separation of commander and gunner, and with this large hatch in front of you, when unbuttoned, your view is not too good anyway.

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10 hours ago, klunker said:

Funny!  Did you use a mirror..or just bend over to check it out?🤣

No mirror. I am still able to bend over enough. The coming back up again, however, might be a different challenge:biggrin:

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4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

No mirror. I am still able to bend over enough. The coming back up again, however, might be a different challenge:biggrin:

Yep, I can relate to that..comes with being long in the tooth.

 

Back to the periscope issue:   I noticed the T-34 43 has a periscope and the the "visor" keys work when in the gunner's seat without any actual view out of a periscope.  I don't see how one can nestle to the "apparent" periscope.  Would you happen to know if this is something else I'm ignorant of, or is it that the periscope is not actually installed and working? 

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1 hour ago, klunker said:

Back to the periscope issue:   I noticed the T-34 43 has a periscope and the the "visor" keys work when in the gunner's seat without any actual view out of a periscope.  I don't see how one can nestle to the "apparent" periscope.  Would you happen to know if this is something else I'm ignorant of, or is it that the periscope is not actually installed and working?

It is so easy, that I didn't notice it myself.:biggrin: I read it in a post of someone else.

When in Gunner's position, press the key for nestle to gunsight, you are now looking through the gunsight, notice the big bulge at the right side, now press nestle to gunsight a second time and you are in the periscope sight, no bulge at the right. A third pressing nestle to gunsight will bring you back to default view inside the turret.

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Yogi..you are indeed "Da Man!"   Without your help..I would have remained totally ignorant.  Ah yes, I get it:  You are an "Enlightened" yogi...A GURU..who removes the darkness of ignorance with the light of knowledge, as the word guru implies! 

 

This knowledge will enhance my enjoyment of the game.  I may again start to use the T 34/ 43 online again.  I stopped driving it when I discovered the 42 was not only hardier, but also better for situational awareness.  Getting to the external view in the 42 is faster as well as back to the gunsight view.  Furthermore, the 42 gunsight seems to always be at the "ready" as it doesn't  seem to require an uncage click like the 43.  Also, it moves as quickly with the engine off as it does with it on.  Not so with the 43.   At any rate, I was feeling I'd been ripped off by buying Tank Crew when I actually preferred driving the free Tanks when playing online.  Now, I find a reason to jump into the 43 just to play with the new toy, and also enjoy enhanced SA in the process.  Well, maybe not..as playing online against Tigers..one needs some kind of edge 🤪  But, then again, if you can't lick'em..Join em and get yourself a Tiger!  Yeah, that ticket!!  Only kidding, as I don't always play online, and in fact do prefer single player.

 

Thanks again for your help.  You might also include this info in your message to the TC folks  :)  You are going to post this "new" info at TC aren't you?  REALLY, I'm sure I'm not the only ignorant one out there.  Without a manual of some sort, we the hopeless ones, need the wise words of our Guru to keep us on the right path!!

 

Oh, I forgot to add that this periscope bit also works in the KV as well.  Makes it more fun to boot!

 

Edited by klunker
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