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JG1_Butzzell

You want to sell more FC vol 1?

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You want to sell  FC vol 1?

 

Make the SE5a and the Alb D.Va      Free to all IL2 GB owners.  Nothing to loose.  Announce the Sunday Thursday events on the main boards. People will try out their free planes and want more. The ground textures are great. The fights are in your face. The cockpit visibility is so much better. And for those in VR it is just awesome.

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I really like this idea, and there's a precedent: Tank Crew also has two free tanks.

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Yup, 

 

I  think that its just enough of a taste to get hooked and then people will spring for the whole thing because they will want all the planes. 

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[edited] Go RoF United style.

 

Flying Circus - No Man's Land

 

Put it up on Steam.  2 free planes, an "Aces Edition" to upgrade to; and being in the same client as the WW2 stuff, they'll probably sell some of that too.

 

It's really a well-made sim.  You just need to get people to try it.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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You get all sorts of WWI planes on that  Bodenplatte  Special , but you can't fly any of them. Kind of a conundrum, I have the planes, but can't fly them. And if I buy FC, I'll most likely be paying for planes I already have. It also came with "Tank Crew" but I haven't figured how to get it to work. Guess I should stick to gliders😁

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Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

They've already said that free planes don't increase sales.

 

Why exactly are we getting free tanks, then?

 

Because if that does increase sales, then I'd like some free Great War tanks.

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

Why exactly are we getting free tanks, then?

 

 

Were these two not already in the game as an experimental tryout.  Before 1C even did think about FC & TC. 

Edited by Dutch2

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

Why exactly are we getting free tanks, then?

 

Because if that does increase sales, then I'd like some free Great War tanks.


the free tanks were added long before TC was announced.  It looks like they did it because some programmers had a little free time and wanted to experiment with the existing tanks.  It had absolutely nothing to do with marketing TC, because TC did not even exist.

46 minutes ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

No need to let people try the game.  Just make them shell out 60-80 bucks for a niche title on blind faith.

 

Stick with what works.  All those other companies with free-to-try schemes for their games are suckers.


Sure, just ignore all the marketing data that tells you that free aircraft don’t increase sales.  The people who actually study stuff like that are just nerds anyways.

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9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Sure, just ignore all the marketing data that tells you that free aircraft don’t increase sales.  The people who actually study stuff like that are just nerds anyways.

 

Like I said, stick to what works.

 

Works great on Thursday and Sunday.

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1 minute ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

 

Like I said, stick to what works.

 

Works great on Thursday and Sunday.


Maybe the problem is not marketing.  Maybe the problem is there are only enough WW1 flight nerds to support a server 2 nights a week.  
 

In any case, if you’ve got data that contradicts what the devs are doing, feel free to post it.  

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45 minutes ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

No need to let people try the game.  Just make them shell out 60-80 bucks for a niche title on blind faith.

 

Stick with what works.  All those other companies with free-to-try schemes for their games are suckers.

 

Not exactly the same, though. We're not asking for a free demo that anyone with an e-mail address can get. This is what RoF got wrong and how it got the attention of freeloaders or people who were keen on creating dozens of free alt accounts for unsavory purposes.

 

In FC's case you'd be letting customer who have already committed to buying one of your products have a taste of another product.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

Were these two not already in the game as an experimental tryout.  Before 1C even did think about FC & TC. 

 

Just now, BraveSirRobin said:


the free tanks were added long before TC was announced.  It looks like they did it because some programmers had a little free time and wanted to experiment with the existing tanks.  It had absolutely nothing to do with marketing TC, because TC did not even exist.

 

I can only speak for myself, but getting to play around with those two is what got me to buy Tank Crew. It was the one module I thought of skipping altogether. It really wasn't something I thought I cared for until I tried it. I'm sure there's a few people out there equally on the fence about WWI.

 

As @JG1_Butzzell says, if you give those people two WWI planes (say the Albatros D.Va and S.E.5a), one of four things will happen:
 

  1. They still won't care.
     
  2. They will try them, and decide they don't care.
     
  3. They will try them, and decide to buy the product. 
     
  4. They will try them, realise that flying the Albatros D.Va/S.E.5a is quite literally the best thing in the world, spend hours flying them and somehow not care to try any other WWI planes.
     

I only see a lost sale in the unlikely scenario #4.

 

Unless you count #2 as a lost sale, as in: "Well, FC has been out for 3 years now and the sale price is $19.99. I might as well buy it at that that price just to give it a try."

 

Then find out you really dislike WWI planes and just threw 20 bucks away. If you're afraid of that, they should probably also get rid of the free tanks, because those are going to be lost sales down the road from people who otherwise wouldn't know that they don't like tanks.

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I think there should be a FC demo/free LIMITED trial with 2 planes for IL-2 GBs users ONLY (excluding TC). As you start with a F2P game called Rise of Flight, you like it, if you do, and then buy these DLCs, and really like RoF. Then something called Flying Circus Vol.1 comes along costing $80 US or $100 CDN with... (It's been discussed many times), and you have the hard decision, " Unghh, Should I buy it, Should I not?" Then if you buy it, you you may realize that you are greatly disappointed by your large sum of cash you just dropped on this product (which is meant to be a pure experiment by the devs BTW) and say " I'm not buying FC Vol.2!, etc." or encourage people who are on the fence between RoF and FC to stick with RoF. Due to the large wad of money that FC1 costs, it may be necessary to give away 2 planes for free for a LIMITED time to make sure that potential customers feel satisfied with the differences (though in many ways, minor, save for VR.) between RoF and FC1. 

28 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

We're not asking for a free demo that anyone with an e-mail address can get. This is what RoF got wrong and how it got the attention of freeloaders

The Perfect reason why Steam needs to change their policy when posting reviews, in this case negative reviews from I think 5 minutes of gameplay, to 5 hours. The fact that people can post negative reviews about RoF after just 0.2 hours is just absurd IMO.

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12 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

As near as I can tell, it’s #2.  The problem is that the developer needs the #2 group to pay cash to find out that they don’t care.

 

But if you’ve got marketing data that says otherwise, feel free to post it’. I’m just going by what Jason has said on the forum.  But WTF does he know, right?

 

Again, if giving away two free WWI aircraft is reason enough to stop someone who has already purchased a WWII module from ever buying a WWI module, then why give away free tanks and risk them not wanting to pay to find out if they care about tanks?

 

 

The problem with FC1 isn't that it has poor marketing, it's that it has no marketing. They are specifically aiming this at the RoF community, part of which refuses to come over for a variety of reasons, some valid, some plain petty. The other target audience is the curious WWII sim n-word who has already given you his money for some other module. In marketing terms, this means you need to man the harpoons.

 

If you're a regular person/gamer/simmer with a fleeting interest in WWI aircraft because of that movie you saw last week, please look no further ----> https://riseofflight.com/

 

If you're already here because you've bought into the whole Great Battles ecosystem, then yes, a small something to pique your interest seems like a good idea.

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I'd like to know if the current discount is generating more sales? The original sales price was over-priced in my opinion but I bought it because WW1 aviation sims are rare and it's what I'm into. Money was not a consideration for me but it is for many. I think FC (incomplete as it is) is worth around 50 bucks (or $49.99 which looks so much better!). But I doubt if Jason would go with this.

 

As for freebie planes, people will take them (a novelty for the WWII dudes) but I'm unconvinced it would generate much in the way of extra FC sales.

 

So it's a bit of a conundrum. But I do want FC to continue to grow (fingers and toes crossed).

 

 

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51 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

Again, if giving away two free WWI aircraft is reason enough to stop someone who has already purchased a WWII module from ever buying a WWI module, then why give away free tanks and risk them not wanting to pay to find out if they care about tanks?

 

 

ok, for the sake of argument we'll pretend that the free tanks were not released long before TC was announced.  The main difference between TC and FC is that TC is an entirely new concept.  Providing a free taste makes some sense.  FC is just a modestly updated version of RoF.  If you want a free taste, load RoF onto your PC.  I hear that it's free. 

 

If your argument is that we'll only give the free aircraft to people who already own a WW2 version of the game, then I don't see how that could help sales.  Those people already know how great this game is.  Many of them also own RoF.  And if they don't, it's probably because they don't care about WW1 aircraft.  How many people do you think there are who own BoX but are completely in the dark about RoF and FC?  

 

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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31 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

If your argument is that we'll only give the free aircraft to people who already own a WW2 version of the game, then I don't see how that could help sales.

Because then we’ll get these freeloader people who play for under an hour and make an idiotic complaint/review, and ruin the how great the game is, like these people did with Rise of Flight. Curious whether or not these people will like FC, if they don’t like RoF.

31 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The main difference between TC and FC is that TC is an entirely new concept...  FC is just a modestly updated version of RoF.

With TC, Bodenplatte, Normandy; in English: Battle of..., the devs were essentially starting from scratch, like writing a book from scratch. With FC, they were essentially typing up a hand written book (quite possibly the same length as the book being started from scratch) and adding a few pictures to it. 

The Arras map took far too long (no offence ) as the TC map came out 6 months prior, despite both projects being announced, entering EA at the same time and both being made by 3rd Party teams.

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37 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

If you want a free taste, load RoF onto your PC.  I hear that it's free. 

 

Many of them also own RoF.  And if they don't, it's probably because they don't care about WW1 aircraft.  How many people do you think there are who own BoX but are completely in the dark about RoF and FC?

 

Exactly that, people who play IL-2 GB and who are in the dark about RoF and FC.

 

And by "in the dark", I don't mean to say "completely oblivious to their existence" (maybe a few, you never know), but certainly those who came to IL-2 GB from IL-2 1946/CloD or other sims, and may have never even played RoF. It's a stretch to tell those people to try out some free WWI planes in a 10 year old game, which they have no interest in to begin with, in the hopes that they'll come back to buy the new and improved version later. It's like asking me to go install some old free tank game. I just never cared enough about tanks to even give them a moment's pause until they were shoved under my very nose for free. In fact I still don't really care much for tanks, but I find them fun enough in the IL-2 GB engine to warrant a purchase and mess around with them a bit in single player.

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maybe if ther was a definitive user guide to help absolute beginners get started?   as informative as this forum is, it's like preaching to the choir?    i mean, unless someone already kinda kno's whats'up Flying'Circus can be discombobulating.   i havnt participated in multiplayer since the glory-days of RedBaron but it's not been for the lack of trying!?    for one thing, thers too much ambiguity regarding Steam for an absolute beginner to jst jump in.    getting started on FC should be more intuitive.. but it's not.   you want to sell more FC vol 1?   MAKE IT EASIER FOR NEWBIES.... and a Nieuport 17 wouldnt hurt :)

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

It's a stretch to tell those people to try out some free WWI planes in a 10 year old game, which they have no interest in to begin with

 

If they have no interest in RoF it's tough to come up with reasons why they would suddenly develop an interest in FC.  I really don't see this generating enough sales to make it worth the effort.  

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A free-weekend style promotion now and then would probably work well.  Users get access to all content except perhaps for paid campaigns.  That way new and existing customers can try out the various chapters, but nothing has to get given away for free.

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10 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

A free-weekend style promotion now and then would probably work well.  Users get access to all content except perhaps for paid campaigns.  That way new and existing customers can try out the various chapters, but nothing has to get given away for free.

 

Heatblur tried this style of promotion, which in turn swayed me to purchase the F-14, so yes it may work for some potential customers.

Edited by bzc3lk

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The main problem, in my opinion, is that FC has never been sold nor advertised like a "stand alone game".  People think it's nothing else than an expansion, a mod, a campaign (call it as you prefer) of BOS.  Said that, just the BOS players know about it and most of them probably are not even interested in a WW1 simulation. To advertise FC like a stand alone game wanted be a way smarter thing to do. I am pretty sure that is plenty of WW1 fans who do not even know that FC exists.

 

Point two: "The price". The game is way too expensive for what it offers. A map, and a poor selection of planes playable just in multiplayer mode 

 

Another smart thing to do would be to provide stable servers with a good rotation of maps and missions. We are playing the game JUST and ONLY cause some saints  (J5 and JG1 guys)  pay for servers and work on missions. Is it possible that a game, that should represent the state of the art of WW1 simulation, is left to the good will of some volunteers? It's a shame and above all it's a waste

 

Edited by JGS4_MaxvonArese
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I really like the idea.

 

I only bought TC to support the team. I hate tanks. You ever cleaned one after two weeks of action? Just seein the poor sods doing left me a lasting impression. Also if you're tall and took a ride in them, that was the final straw.

 

I got the game just for the hell of it. and tried it eventually. Boy that was fun! I'm glad I bought it. It's grand!

 

So, giving people a look I think would convince many.

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Something like that may help. I fly WWII BoX on multiplayer comms and with the people I've flown with, maybe half have no idea what FC is. Word of mouth may help them learn about what the game is, and then something like a free weekend or sale promotion could help bring them in the door. We have several players on comms who can explain what FC is to people, and they do seem somewhat surprised when they hear what it is.  Realistically, there is the possibility of improving player numbers in the game, but the WW2 BoX genre will remain the more-played of the two. But there is always room for improvement on the WW1 end.

Edited by Krispy_Duck

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Yes, they should do a 'weekend try-out for free' (good idea). I don't think it would be prejudicial to sales. If they want to wait a bit for that, fine, but just the sales seems too little of an effort to help make FC more visible, especially because dogfighting is trilling with WWI planes (the inception of it all). The free planes is also a good idea. To have FC amongst the WWII crowd and don't facilitate the transition to FC is a big mistake. At least on our standpoint, because the full price is indeed steep for a student or for who lives in countries with the Dollar through the roof, especially with all the controversy and rivalry with ROF since day one.

 

And I also agree with the stable servers. Since day one I mentioned that if I were in their shoes, I would get a server running all the time to host the new crowd. It could be a joint venture with some mission builders. It could even not be officially linked to the devs (we don’t have to know about it), with a PayPal account for donations to keep it running, just like we had some servers in ROF. An expert server, no icons, no AIs, no air starts, and a beginner server for the AI crowd. For a while I had a suspicion that WOL was a devs server.

 

By now we would probably have a regular daily crowd if we had since day one a couple high quality servers being updated quickly and with good / compact missions. As I mentioned, every time FC got some traction, an update would come and the servers would go. Plus the fact that most of the servers weren’t even listed on the barans website. I think only Flugpark took advantage of the list online. We never really got a chance the way things were done. But that's OK too, although it is a pity.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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21 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

By now we would probably have a regular daily crowd if we had since day one a couple high quality servers being updated quickly and with good / compact missions.


what makes you think that a dev run server would be any more popular than what you’ve already got?  

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10 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Am I going to have to use the beginners server then? 

 

Single player works as well 😂😂 Save some internet band! 

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I hated that a couple of planes were free in RoF.  It allowed any Tom, Dick, or Harry a chance to come in and goof off, which I don't think led to good things.  I wouldn't mind if it was "free weekend" like some have mentioned, but I'd hate the RoF way of doing things.

Edited by SeaSerpent
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10 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

I hated that a couple of planes were free in RoF.  It allowed any Tom, Dick, or Harry a chance to come in and goof off, which I don't think led to good things.  I wouldn't mind if it was "free weekend" like some have mentioned, but I'd hate the RoF way of doing things.

 I agree with you 100% on this point. Making ROF "Free" did have some unfortunate consequences.  I don't know that making 1 or 2 FC planes available to those who actually purchase BOX would have the same effect however.  Being a more "targeted" audience means that you will attract players who are genuinely interested in CFS.

 

  Whether  or not that leads to more sales is debatable,  but it's better than asking 1C to be giving up the store in hopes of more sales.  JMO

Edited by J5_Gamecock
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Today I have all the maps and many collection planes of BoS, BoM and ...

 

I have only bought the IL-2 and I fly it in the single player Caree format. I am not interested in the On-Line like many and many virtual pilots today. I am almost certain that the highest number of sales of IL-2 is for single-player flight than for On-line.

 

The FC1 is for multiplayer only, has no campaign (Caree) I was waiting for FC2 to implement the Caree mode, but it seems that since you do not have enough sales you will not invest more work for a FC2 with Caree mode.

 

What made me buy RoF was its Caree mode, then they applied it to BoS and it has been a success. So I think that if you don't add a Caree mode to FC1 your sales will be what you have.

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On 2/1/2020 at 1:00 AM, BraveSirRobin said:


Maybe the problem is not marketing.  Maybe the problem is there are only enough WW1 flight nerds to support a server 2 nights a week.  
 

In any case, if you’ve got data that contradicts what the devs are doing, feel free to post it.  


I'd like to see one person who, when free planes were already available, picked up RoF and started buying planes straight ahead, without trying them first. Plenty of people try free planes and move away, all right. It's unlikely they would have stayed for more if they paid for these planes before trying. In contrast, people who did buy went through free planes phase.

There is comparatively huge group of aviation / WW2 nerds just beyond the fence to tap into (unlike RoF, where prospective buyers had to learn about the game on their own before they tried it. Here, it can be served to them.). 

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
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19 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

I hated that a couple of planes were free in RoF.  It allowed any Tom, Dick, or Harry a chance to come in and goof off, which I don't think led to good things.  I wouldn't mind if it was "free weekend" like some have mentioned, but I'd hate the RoF way of doing things.


Same.

 

RoF was true F2P and it led to abuse. This would be giving a freebie to existing paying customers.

 

Free weekend sounds pretty good, actually, but ...we gonna need a bigger server.

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I do agree that the whole “everything being linked to Battle of Stalingrad” is very bad for steam shoppers.  FC and tank crew should have been stand alone

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I think that instead of making two planes that we technically already paid for, free, they should release two new WW1 planes, and make those free.  That way people who purchased FC wouldn't feel like they just lost 20% value.

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